Guest guest Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Hi Are you willing to share your list of recommended sites? My understanding is that small moderate doses of wholegrains (pref gluten free) are OK taken with protein/healthy fats/fibrous foods as the insulin response is less provoked. It's high GI foods taken on their own that causes the most problems. Helen To: ukherbal-list Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012, 11:47 Subject: RE: Giving up grains >> Psoriatic arthritis, PMR, Ank.Spon, all respond well to a wheat free diet.Low carb really. Great post Zoe!. I couldn’t agree with you more about the damage grain does, especially in certain conditions, and I am perpetually preaching this to patients. When they are willing / able to make the changes, results can be wonderful and dramatic. However it is hard. People are shocked, even angry at the prospect of doing without their grains , and my long list of alternative foods, web resources, recipes etc, is sometimes met with dismay. Do you mind sharing some of your ideas on the subject? Which links do you send people to, to better inform them about the evils of grains? Or suitable recipes (there are so many!) Apart from obvious meat / fish /eggs/ veg choices, my ideas tend to revolve around combining eggs with ground almonds, or coconut flour, and adding grated veg (eg courgettes), to make pancakes or muffins. Lots of nutty snacks and if they can’t do without oats, I get them to soak oats in natural, live yoghurt + water overnight at room temperature (breaking down indigestible elements, and starting fermentation), then combine with seeds (also soaked overnight) and berries etc. There are some great websites (mainly “paleo†sites) for recipes. I give people a list, but welcome other suggestions. I’d like to help people as much as possible, because I appreciate how hard it can be to make these changes. Requiring more preparation time and forethought (until they are used to it) especially when they have kids, and work full-time. So any tips, ideas (esp. breakfast and snacks), good websites would be very welcome. Thanks Firnberg From: ukherbal-list [mailto:ukherbal-list ] On Behalf Of Zoe HawesSent: 03 February 2012 10:00To: ukherbal-list Subject: Re: Re: Psoriatic arthritis? Psoriatic arthritis, PMR, Ank.Spon, all respond well to a wheat free diet.Low carb really. I used this now for about 3 years worth of patients, all presenting with of a various combination of these, all making complete recovery when they stick to grain free. I say grain free because if you say gluten free they go and fill up on gluten free products which are still eventually glucose in the body and full of glucose corn syrup crap. Get the BM (Blood sugar) down then insulin comes down and inflammation resolves. My last patient took herbs for 6 months - ALL the anti inflam ones and had small improvements but kept relapsing UNTIL he went off and had a proper look at all the links I gave him about grains - he went grain free in November and is now pain free and back to work. Vegans are totally fat deficient and I can't think of one I have seen in clinic that doesn't rely on grain based carbohydrates as a main part of their diet. Omega 6 fats are inflammatory (from seeds, nuts and vegetables)And you can't get anywhere near enough the amounts of omega 3 required from hemp and flax. Our ancestors didn't get essential fats from vegetables and they wouldn't have eaten flax and hemp seed in quantities enough to give them anything close to what is required(it would have given them the runs though) It has to be animal fats.The anti nutrient effects, immune screwing gluten and high glucose stuff aside - I'm thinking that another part of these illnesses is to do with the biology of the brain. The amygdala in the brain is programmed to monitor for potentially dangerous stuff. I picture it like a security guard in his office. Doesn't have a rational brain or ability to think for himself. Just sees how things are over time and then sets responses to alert when anything changes.So if you have a pretty steady high blood sugar and insulin, then as soon as that monitor on the security guards screen starts to blip off down into lower levels, then he will react as if it is dangerous and set off a red alert. That means flight or fight response. Skeletal muscles get tense in response, ready to power off running or fighting. Tenseness=poor circulation=bad nutrient supply & poor removal of wastes= inflammation and disrepair= aching, tense, painful joints and muscles.So they have a nice carby cereal breakfast with a few seedy nuts (omega 6) and some evil soya milk or rice milk(why not just poor sugar syrup on?!) on it. Then 2 hours later the BM drops. Then a snack on a few rice cakes, oat cakes what ever. BM goes up. For a bit.Back down for lunch of pasta, potato, sandwich, soup and bread, cous cous etcAgain in the afternoon -MMMmmm a banana or some kind of healthy fruit (fructose)or yoghurt.and again for dinner of something carb based. So the BM yoyos massively all day long. And they body is constantly on alert. High sympathetic tone causing every system to direct function to flight or fight.There is hardly any parasympathetic activity at all - digestion stops and starts and they have symptoms of irritable bowel - oh and they think they have candida and probably do have an element of dysbiosis because of all the glucose feeding the nasty bloaty bugs. A good regular dose of bile(in a parasympathetic state) would sort that out straight away and fermented foods.(or you can buy expensive pro biotics) Then all the "good" bugs will be able to make nutrients more bio available for absorption.(or you can keep buying expensive supplements long term)or you can make bone broths for your veg soup.Lots of people even get low BM symptoms and they think it's because they need more carbs/glucose/sugar. They also crash pretty badly after about 7-10 days as the system resets. Warn them about this if they are going to do withdraw carbs suddenly rather than gradually. Parasympathetic is also what powers elimination of wastes. If it doesn't get a chance then they accumulate. Lots of these patients complain of insomnia and poor sleep. It's because that amygdala keeps waking them up. Gotta keep running.Oops. Didn't mean to write so much. Can you tell I've been 6 hours a day alone pruning the orchard for 5 days! There is more but I'll stop now just in case I'm telling granny how to suck eggs.(eggs now there's a great breakfast alternative!)zoexMedical HerbalistMNIMH CPP Dip. Phyt. Buteyko Breathing Practitoner"Wild Drugs" 'A Foragers Guide to Healing Plants' Gaia 2010Bath01761 439920 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 A very good point, but not applicable for the majority of my Px's within an affluent catchment area. Convenience and time are clearly a factor, but those discussions usually surface after the shock of the suggestion has subsided. Mr. Kellogg really did create a social transformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Dear AllAn interesting conversation indeed. Here in NZ there is a huge intolerance to gluten, no doubt due in part to soft wheat which has loads of extra gluten added & and the resultant boom in GF foods of dubious quality. The food here is of general poor quality and limited selection, unles you know where to seek things out. Clean and green it is not. However, some inspired people habving been devoting their life and action to better ways of eating and health: One of the good books I have come across is - this is a cook book with loads of added info.'Change of Heart' by Kay Baxter & Bob Corker - although not totally grain free and has a Kiwi slant (ie those who are lucky enought to raise their own meat and milk their own cows etc) - it is covers fermented foods and much more, and arises from their years and years of experience of growing food from a permaculture perspective and feeding themselves, family and grandchildren, focusing on nutrient dense food etc. check out www.koanga.org.nz Kym Murden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 While I take on board what everyone is saying about the problem with eating grains, the problem I see is that the global population expanded to the billions we have today because of farming and grain consumption and the one planet we all inhabit simply cannot now support its population on meat, fish and veg alone. It takes 10x as much land to support a person eating beef than one eating grains (i.e. processing the grains through an animal is only 10% efficient). We have almost fished our seas bare so that is not a viable option either. Returning to a stone-age diet may be the ideal for some but impossible for mankind as a whole in its current numbers - in any case our stone age ancestors would have had a far wider range of fruits, nuts and berries, birds, fish and animals to sustain them than are currently around due to ancient and more modern extinctions (from aurochs and woolly mammoths to dodos and passenger pigeons) so eating the narrow range of farmed animals and veg is not the same at all. I believe it is lack of variety in our diets that is the main problem - many clients seem to exist on wheat for every meal and snack for example. While I do suggest clients go wheat and gluten free (not by visiting the sugary/salty " free from " aisles of our supermarkets!) for a period of a month or more to give their digestive tracts a chance to recover, what I do strongly encourage is a widening of the range of all types of foods in their diets long term. As for omega-3 ( & 6 - we need a balance), I do doubt how much there is in soya fed caged poultry, pigs or salmon and it is really only found in beef that is grass fed for the main part or lamb (more likely to be grass fed) so I would encourage meat (or fish) eaters to eat smaller amounts of organic (standards insist on access to grazing) meat or wild and sustainably caught fish rather than poor quality meat at every meal. Dairy products (and eggs) have the same problem with the added issues of the effects of pasteurisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Great comments, a. I would also add that diet cannot be separated from the rest of a patients's context. Even simple recommendations like "Avoid all processed food" (not so simple really) and "Get up off your chair every day and do something physical" can make a world of difference all on their own. It would be lovely if a patient would take the next steps after the above and balance their meals and change a few of their self-destructive habits but sometimes the two recommendations listed above are as much as many patients can manage. Theory vs. reality. Kind regards, Kerry While I take on board what everyone is saying about the problem with eating grains, the problem I see is that the global population expanded to the billions we have today because of farming and grain consumption and the one planet we all inhabit simply cannot now support its population on meat, fish and veg alone. It takes 10x as much land to support a person eating beef than one eating grains (i.e. processing the grains through an animal is only 10% efficient). We have almost fished our seas bare so that is not a viable option either. Returning to a stone-age diet may be the ideal for some but impossible for mankind as a whole in its current numbers - in any case our stone age ancestors would have had a far wider range of fruits, nuts and berries, birds, fish and animals to sustain them than are currently around due to ancient and more modern extinctions (from aurochs and woolly mammoths to dodos and passenger pigeons) so eating the narrow range of farmed animals and veg is not the same at all. I believe it is lack of variety in our diets that is the main problem - many clients seem to exist on wheat for every meal and snack for example. While I do suggest clients go wheat and gluten free (not by visiting the sugary/salty "free from" aisles of our supermarkets!) for a period of a month or more to give their digestive tracts a chance to recover, what I do strongly encourage is a widening of the range of all types of foods in their diets long term. As for omega-3 ( & 6 - we need a balance), I do doubt how much there is in soya fed caged poultry, pigs or salmon and it is really only found in beef that is grass fed for the main part or lamb (more likely to be grass fed) so I would encourage meat (or fish) eaters to eat smaller amounts of organic (standards insist on access to grazing) meat or wild and sustainably caught fish rather than poor quality meat at every meal. Dairy products (and eggs) have the same problem with the added issues of the effects of pasteurisation. -- Kerry Hackett, MNIMH, AHG, OHA Medical Herbalist www.kerryhackett.ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Sustainability of a paleo(or whatever you want to call it) diet is something I spend a lot of time thinking about.It doesn't have to be expensive. I shop at the Farmers Market and my local co-op. I am feeding a family of four for about £50-£60/week but I have frequently done it for much less when money is tight. (I also don't have a mobile phone, satellite TV, get haircuts, shop at boot sales because i'd rather spend my money on decent food) My weekly shop consists of lots and lots of vegetables - local and seasonal. (Right now it is Brassicas(about 4 cabbages a week), alliums, parsnips, squash, beetroot, carrots, turnips etc - Apples and pears)Tinned fish from lidls, Raw cheese. Raw Milk. Eggs. Mushrooms.It is ALL about the vegetables. Lots and lots of them. Fried in lard, or served with butter. About £18-£20 is on meat from the traditional meat stall, all the cheap, delicious scraggy bits - Chicken wings, pork ribs, a whole salami, bacon misshapes, ox heart, sweetbreads, liver(minced and smuggled into stews) beef shin/ribs, usually a duck carcass(£1) which I will boil for cooking fat and bone broth. The meat gets picked off and we have it for a big brothy dinner on Sunday. All meals are based around a mountain of vegetables cooked in bone broth with some scraggy meat in, or sprinkled on top.I can make a chicken into 4 dinners. Just like our grandmothers did.I think the problem with the grain versus meat argument is that no body has yet taken into account the long term impact of grain production on the environment as a whole. Petro chemicals, monsanto, GMO, roundup, bee deaths due to pesticide use(neocotinids), it is oil dependent right through from ground preparation, fertilisers, sowing, harvest, transport, manufacturing, packaging etc It terrifies me.I suppose the problem of over population will be solved by everyone who is over consuming carbs ending up insulin resistant and infertile? Or dying young? Natural selection might come through to save the planet. IVF and expensive petro chemical based medications are definately unsustainable. Dr Rosie s pointed out a fact at a recent talk, that our GNP will be exceeded by our drug expenditure in about 18 years!!!!!The problem is the way in which we farm meat and use it. We rear to kill too quickly and that needs high energy grain feeds to do it. Grass fed is slower but it is sustainable - you get bigger animals, with healthier fat. We need to re educate how to eat less of the "best" cuts and stop wasting so much. Mind you those Macprofits chicken carcass nuggets and chicken fat milkshakes are pretty sustainable!(pretty disgusting fats though because they are intensively farmed)I tried to get the farmer across the road to grass rear us a beef cow. He can't afford to take one out of the loop - he is tied up in his Sainsbury's contract. Take a cow out of that and he is hit financially. I am lucky enough now to have found a bit of land of my own and rear my own meat animals - I love them and care for them - when I kill them it is REALLY tough but I use every scrap with reverence and respect. I don't waste a single bit. Before I had my own land I found someone who had some and got a group of people together and we all did it together.I see part of my work as a herbalist to be to educate my patients on how to eat healthily but also how their demands on the kinds of food they want will help to change consumer demands. I have just adopted 2 sisters(last March) and they now eat 90% grain free - if they can get it, any one can do it. All of their health problems have gone and they have really noticed(allergies, diarrhoea, freezing extremities, pale, thin hair, eczema, constant running snot, below 25th centile gone up to 50%!). The 5 year old used to fall over every 3 steps now she is as strong as an ox. Their foster carer mainlined sugar crap and refined carbs into them and before then god knows what they ate. (They are the reason why my blog is sadly neglected)I get my patients to go completely grain free for 4 weeks. I'm pretty strict. I usually point out to them how unwell they feel, I explain why, how they deserve to feel well, I tell them about other patients who have done it and their recovery. If they are really resistant I break it down into tackling a meal at a time starting with breakfasts. Fried up last nights left over veg with fried eggs, or mushrooms, or some meat, kippers, omelette or if they can't face cooked then handful almonds and a bit of cheese, tea/coffee with cream or full fat milk etcAfter a month they usually have noticed the benefits and don't want to go back - or if they do they immediately notice the re emergence of symptoms. After that I tell them to stick to it 80/20.I spent an hour dragging all the links I could think of off the top of my head into a list: Recipes http://www.elanaspantry.com/gluten-free-recipes/breakfasts/ http://www.herbcraft.org/broth.html Information(these sites all have recipes too) http://www.marksdailyapple.com//welcome-to-marks-daily-apple/#axzz1lgaVXQWp http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/2011/01/slay-the-sugar-monster-in-four-doable-steps/ http://chriskresser.com/beyondpaleo http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/about-the-author/ http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/01/a-wheat-farmer-weighs-in-on-wheat-belly/ http://www.westonaprice.org/abcs-of-nutrition/health-topics http://www.marksdailyapple.com/polyunsaturated-fat/#axzz1lgjCwmWc A FILM! http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/ The science bit http://www.nibm.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/cmec_immunocereal.pdf Success stories http://www.marksdailyapple.com/category/success-story-summaries/#axzz1lgYumS8J http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-unconquerable-dave/#axzz1lgZOu08I Books Dr Malcom Mc Kendrick – The great cholesterol con Taubes – Good Calories Bad Calories A load more here: http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/recommended-reading/ Vegetarians http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/vegetarianism-and-nutrient-deficiencies http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/science-of-vegetarianism http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/science-of-vegetarianism http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-carrie-reader-question-roundup/#axzz1lgjCwmWc http://pbexplorer.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/can-i-be-avegetarian/ Enough. Zoe Medical HerbalistMNIMH CPP Dip. Phyt. Buteyko Breathing Practitoner"Wild Drugs" 'A Foragers Guide to Healing Plants' Gaia 2010Bath01761 439920 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks Zoe for all the links and many congrats on your adopted daughters. I used to raise beef myself (after finding out what went into cattle food at the time - growth hormones and antibiotics etc) and swap with a neighbour for lamb/pork but when we had a 10 day power cut in the 80s and had to clear a HUGE quantity of very off meat from the freezer (and dispose of the freezer) I went instantly veggie and have been ever since - the smell from butchers shop or even supermarket meat aisle is enough to make me gag even now. Now I keep only egg-laying chickens and grow veg in garden and polytunnel, plus getting an organic veg box from local man. Unfortunately the farmers markets round here are nearly all meat and bread, sometimes no veg at all. It is an uphill struggle here in Scotland where, incidentally, it is illegal to buy/sell unpasteurized milk and milk products. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 What a wonderful, interesting and informative post. Thank you so much for putting the time into this. I gave up wheat about 10 years ago, after a lifetime of fatigue and digestive disturbance. During a time of increased stress about 4 years ago I found I could no longer tolerate other gluten-containing grains and went gluten-free. However, I now believe that all grains cause problems unless eaten unprocessed, only in small amounts, and as part of a varied diet. Without modern farming and processing methods, there is no way human beings would be able to produce enough flour to keep them fed with bread, cereals, cakes, pasta, etc. 4 or 5 times a day, every day.However, I do find that small amounts of wholegrains such as brown rice, quinoa, buckwheat (although the last two aren't technically grains), plus other carbohydrates such as sweet potatoes etc are fine as part of a diet which is high in fresh veggies and good sources of protein. Sustainability of a paleo(or whatever you want to call it) diet is something I spend a lot of time thinking about.It doesn't have to be expensive. I shop at the Farmers Market and my local co-op. I am feeding a family of four for about £50-£60/week but I have frequently done it for much less when money is tight. (I also don't have a mobile phone, satellite TV, get haircuts, shop at boot sales because i'd rather spend my money on decent food) My weekly shop consists of lots and lots of vegetables - local and seasonal. (Right now it is Brassicas(about 4 cabbages a week), alliums, parsnips, squash, beetroot, carrots, turnips etc - Apples and pears)Tinned fish from lidls, Raw cheese. Raw Milk. Eggs. Mushrooms.It is ALL about the vegetables. Lots and lots of them. Fried in lard, or served with butter. About £18-£20 is on meat from the traditional meat stall, all the cheap, delicious scraggy bits - Chicken wings, pork ribs, a whole salami, bacon misshapes, ox heart, sweetbreads, liver(minced and smuggled into stews) beef shin/ribs, usually a duck carcass(£1) which I will boil for cooking fat and bone broth. The meat gets picked off and we have it for a big brothy dinner on Sunday. All meals are based around a mountain of vegetables cooked in bone broth with some scraggy meat in, or sprinkled on top.I can make a chicken into 4 dinners. Just like our grandmothers did.I think the problem with the grain versus meat argument is that no body has yet taken into account the long term impact of grain production on the environment as a whole. Petro chemicals, monsanto, GMO, roundup, bee deaths due to pesticide use(neocotinids), it is oil dependent right through from ground preparation, fertilisers, sowing, harvest, transport, manufacturing, packaging etc It terrifies me.I suppose the problem of over population will be solved by everyone who is over consuming carbs ending up insulin resistant and infertile? Or dying young? Natural selection might come through to save the planet. IVF and expensive petro chemical based medications are definately unsustainable. Dr Rosie s pointed out a fact at a recent talk, that our GNP will be exceeded by our drug expenditure in about 18 years!!!!!The problem is the way in which we farm meat and use it. We rear to kill too quickly and that needs high energy grain feeds to do it. Grass fed is slower but it is sustainable - you get bigger animals, with healthier fat. We need to re educate how to eat less of the "best" cuts and stop wasting so much. Mind you those Macprofits chicken carcass nuggets and chicken fat milkshakes are pretty sustainable!(pretty disgusting fats though because they are intensively farmed)I tried to get the farmer across the road to grass rear us a beef cow. He can't afford to take one out of the loop - he is tied up in his Sainsbury's contract. Take a cow out of that and he is hit financially. I am lucky enough now to have found a bit of land of my own and rear my own meat animals - I love them and care for them - when I kill them it is REALLY tough but I use every scrap with reverence and respect. I don't waste a single bit. Before I had my own land I found someone who had some and got a group of people together and we all did it together.I see part of my work as a herbalist to be to educate my patients on how to eat healthily but also how their demands on the kinds of food they want will help to change consumer demands. I have just adopted 2 sisters(last March) and they now eat 90% grain free - if they can get it, any one can do it. All of their health problems have gone and they have really noticed(allergies, diarrhoea, freezing extremities, pale, thin hair, eczema, constant running snot, below 25th centile gone up to 50%!). The 5 year old used to fall over every 3 steps now she is as strong as an ox. Their foster carer mainlined sugar crap and refined carbs into them and before then god knows what they ate. (They are the reason why my blog is sadly neglected)I get my patients to go completely grain free for 4 weeks. I'm pretty strict. I usually point out to them how unwell they feel, I explain why, how they deserve to feel well, I tell them about other patients who have done it and their recovery. If they are really resistant I break it down into tackling a meal at a time starting with breakfasts. Fried up last nights left over veg with fried eggs, or mushrooms, or some meat, kippers, omelette or if they can't face cooked then handful almonds and a bit of cheese, tea/coffee with cream or full fat milk etcAfter a month they usually have noticed the benefits and don't want to go back - or if they do they immediately notice the re emergence of symptoms. After that I tell them to stick to it 80/20.I spent an hour dragging all the links I could think of off the top of my head into a list: Recipes http://www.elanaspantry.com/gluten-free-recipes/breakfasts/ http://www.herbcraft.org/broth.html Information(these sites all have recipes too) http://www.marksdailyapple.com//welcome-to-marks-daily-apple/#axzz1lgaVXQWp http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/2011/01/slay-the-sugar-monster-in-four-doable-steps/ http://chriskresser.com/beyondpaleo http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/about-the-author/ http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/01/a-wheat-farmer-weighs-in-on-wheat-belly/ http://www.westonaprice.org/abcs-of-nutrition/health-topics http://www.marksdailyapple.com/polyunsaturated-fat/#axzz1lgjCwmWc A FILM! http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/ The science bit http://www.nibm.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/cmec_immunocereal.pdf Success stories http://www.marksdailyapple.com/category/success-story-summaries/#axzz1lgYumS8J http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-unconquerable-dave/#axzz1lgZOu08I Books Dr Malcom Mc Kendrick – The great cholesterol con Taubes – Good Calories Bad Calories A load more here: http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/recommended-reading/ Vegetarians http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/vegetarianism-and-nutrient-deficiencies http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/science-of-vegetarianism http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/science-of-vegetarianism http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-carrie-reader-question-roundup/#axzz1lgjCwmWc http://pbexplorer.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/can-i-be-avegetarian/ Enough. Zoe Medical HerbalistMNIMH CPP Dip. Phyt. Buteyko Breathing Practitoner"Wild Drugs" 'A Foragers Guide to Healing Plants' Gaia 2010Bath01761 439920 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I too have been following this discussion with great interest and admiration. Low grain diets are a particular interest of mine, culminating recently in a close friend managing to reverse her diabetes diagnosis by going on such a diet (after nine years on metformin! Her doctor couldn’t believe it!) Her blood pressure is coming down as well. I have recently been relieved to see that Diabetes UK have stopped telling people to eat “plenty” of starchy carbohydrate with every meal (following the current crazy government advice), but invite them to consider a low-starch diet instead! I once read (and have since had it definitely confirmed) that palaeontologists have discovered that the bones of people who lived in hunter-gatherer (pre-agricultural) times were a lot stronger, compared with later people who depended on grains as a staple, whose skeletons show evidence of degenerative diseases that weren’t seen in pre-agricultural skeletons. As Aine Marie says, we’re all drowning in starch. Thanks to everyone for all the great recipe etc. ideas. Another couple of useful books: Briffa, Escape the Diet Trap; ph Mercola, The No-Grain Diet. Jan What a wonderful, interesting and informative post. Thank you so much for putting the time into this. I gave up wheat about 10 years ago, after a lifetime of fatigue and digestive disturbance. During a time of increased stress about 4 years ago I found I could no longer tolerate other gluten-containing grains and went gluten-free. However, I now believe that all grains cause problems unless eaten unprocessed, only in small amounts, and as part of a varied diet. Without modern farming and processing methods, there is no way human beings would be able to produce enough flour to keep them fed with bread, cereals, cakes, pasta, etc. 4 or 5 times a day, every day. However, I do find that small amounts of wholegrains such as brown rice, quinoa, buckwheat (although the last two aren't technically grains), plus other carbohydrates such as sweet potatoes etc are fine as part of a diet which is high in fresh veggies and good sources of protein. Sustainability of a paleo(or whatever you want to call it) diet is something I spend a lot of time thinking about. It doesn't have to be expensive. I shop at the Farmers Market and my local co-op. I am feeding a family of four for about £50-£60/week but I have frequently done it for much less when money is tight. (I also don't have a mobile phone, satellite TV, get haircuts, shop at boot sales because i'd rather spend my money on decent food) My weekly shop consists of lots and lots of vegetables - local and seasonal. (Right now it is Brassicas(about 4 cabbages a week), alliums, parsnips, squash, beetroot, carrots, turnips etc - Apples and pears)Tinned fish from lidls, Raw cheese. Raw Milk. Eggs. Mushrooms. It is ALL about the vegetables. Lots and lots of them. Fried in lard, or served with butter. About £18-£20 is on meat from the traditional meat stall, all the cheap, delicious scraggy bits - Chicken wings, pork ribs, a whole salami, bacon misshapes, ox heart, sweetbreads, liver(minced and smuggled into stews) beef shin/ribs, usually a duck carcass(£1) which I will boil for cooking fat and bone broth. The meat gets picked off and we have it for a big brothy dinner on Sunday. All meals are based around a mountain of vegetables cooked in bone broth with some scraggy meat in, or sprinkled on top. I can make a chicken into 4 dinners. Just like our grandmothers did. I think the problem with the grain versus meat argument is that no body has yet taken into account the long term impact of grain production on the environment as a whole. Petro chemicals, monsanto, GMO, roundup, bee deaths due to pesticide use(neocotinids), it is oil dependent right through from ground preparation, fertilisers, sowing, harvest, transport, manufacturing, packaging etc It terrifies me. I suppose the problem of over population will be solved by everyone who is over consuming carbs ending up insulin resistant and infertile? Or dying young? Natural selection might come through to save the planet. IVF and expensive petro chemical based medications are definately unsustainable. Dr Rosie s pointed out a fact at a recent talk, that our GNP will be exceeded by our drug expenditure in about 18 years!!!!! The problem is the way in which we farm meat and use it. We rear to kill too quickly and that needs high energy grain feeds to do it. Grass fed is slower but it is sustainable - you get bigger animals, with healthier fat. We need to re educate how to eat less of the " best " cuts and stop wasting so much. Mind you those Macprofits chicken carcass nuggets and chicken fat milkshakes are pretty sustainable!(pretty disgusting fats though because they are intensively farmed) I tried to get the farmer across the road to grass rear us a beef cow. He can't afford to take one out of the loop - he is tied up in his Sainsbury's contract. Take a cow out of that and he is hit financially. I am lucky enough now to have found a bit of land of my own and rear my own meat animals - I love them and care for them - when I kill them it is REALLY tough but I use every scrap with reverence and respect. I don't waste a single bit. Before I had my own land I found someone who had some and got a group of people together and we all did it together. I see part of my work as a herbalist to be to educate my patients on how to eat healthily but also how their demands on the kinds of food they want will help to change consumer demands. I have just adopted 2 sisters(last March) and they now eat 90% grain free - if they can get it, any one can do it. All of their health problems have gone and they have really noticed(allergies, diarrhoea, freezing extremities, pale, thin hair, eczema, constant running snot, below 25th centile gone up to 50%!). The 5 year old used to fall over every 3 steps now she is as strong as an ox. Their foster carer mainlined sugar crap and refined carbs into them and before then god knows what they ate. (They are the reason why my blog is sadly neglected) I get my patients to go completely grain free for 4 weeks. I'm pretty strict. I usually point out to them how unwell they feel, I explain why, how they deserve to feel well, I tell them about other patients who have done it and their recovery. If they are really resistant I break it down into tackling a meal at a time starting with breakfasts. Fried up last nights left over veg with fried eggs, or mushrooms, or some meat, kippers, omelette or if they can't face cooked then handful almonds and a bit of cheese, tea/coffee with cream or full fat milk etc After a month they usually have noticed the benefits and don't want to go back - or if they do they immediately notice the re emergence of symptoms. After that I tell them to stick to it 80/20. I spent an hour dragging all the links I could think of off the top of my head into a list: Recipes http://www.elanaspantry.com/gluten-free-recipes/breakfasts/ http://www.herbcraft.org/broth.html Information(these sites all have recipes too) http://www.marksdailyapple.com//welcome-to-marks-daily-apple/#axzz1lgaVXQWp http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/2011/01/slay-the-sugar-monster-in-four-doable-steps/ http://chriskresser.com/beyondpaleo http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/about-the-author/ http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/01/a-wheat-farmer-weighs-in-on-wheat-belly/ http://www.westonaprice.org/abcs-of-nutrition/health-topics http://www.marksdailyapple.com/polyunsaturated-fat/#axzz1lgjCwmWc A FILM! http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/about/ < The science bit http://www.nibm.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/cmec_immunocereal.pdf Success stories http://www.marksdailyapple.com/category/success-story-summaries/#axzz1lgYumS8J http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-unconquerable-dave/#axzz1lgZOu08I Books Dr Malcom Mc Kendrick – The great cholesterol con Taubes – Good Calories Bad Calories A load more here: http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/recommended-reading/ Vegetarians http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/vegetarianism-and-nutrient-deficiencies http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/science-of-vegetarianism http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/science-of-vegetarianism http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-carrie-reader-question-roundup/#axzz1lgjCwmWc http://pbexplorer.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/can-i-be-avegetarian/ Enough. Zoe Medical Herbalist MNIMH CPP Dip. Phyt. Buteyko Breathing Practitoner " Wild Drugs " 'A Foragers Guide to Healing Plants' Gaia 2010 Bath 01761 439920 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 There are also some relevant and tasty recipes at www.4hourrecipes.com Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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