Re: Marriage therapy: recommended approaches?

[Guest guest]

I guess I'm glad to see your post, in that it makes me feel less alone. Of

course I'm not glad that you are also experiencing similar problems. I do think

that you are very fortunate in that you are not married yet. In my case, I did

not know my husband's diagnosis before the wedding -- he just seemed quirky,

disorganized, sometimes irresponsible, and not very supportive of common social

customs.

However, right around the time of the wedding, he basically " self combusted " and

became very verbally and emotionally abusive. His prior quirky traits spiraled

out of control, all in ways that are disrespectful to me. I won't list here the

whole series of horrible things he has done and said. It has been grueling and

devastating and at first I had no idea why he was being so cruel. About 1.5

years into the marriage, and after 3 marriage counselors failed to grasp what

the root of many of our problems were, MY therapist realized what was going on:

he has AS. Now it finally all makes sense. Every single thing fits.

Unfortunately my husband doesn't seem able to change any of his behaviors,

regardless of all the things he says he will do or that he says he wants to

change. It's absolutely horrible and degrading. I feel like I've wasted 8

years of my life on this relationship, and I am legally trapped in it. I am not

sure what to do. My 30s have basically been wasted and ruined over this. I

have read all the AS books; I have done all the self-work I can do. The bottom

line is, I can't make my husband be respectful or considerate towards me. (I

literally can't even get the man to return my phone calls.) I am posting this

here because I wish someone had warned me BEFORE I got married. I would not be

in the situation I am in, if someone had been able to warn me before I got

married.

The good news for you is that you are not married. I am so envious of your

situation. I would strongly encourage you to seek out relationship counseling

BEFORE you get married. If he won't go with you to counseling now, well --

there's a good indication of how fulfilling the relationship is likely to be for

you. In my experience, my husband just got much, much worse after the

wedding--something changed in his mind, after we were married.

Here is also a link to an article that I found to mirror a lot of my

experiences. Maybe it will be useful for you, too:

http://www.insightpsychological.com/Library/Asperger%20Marriage.pdf

>

> > For relationships w/ one AS person and one NT person, has anyone found a

type of marriage counseling that has proven to be effective? My husband and I

have tried 3 different LICSWs for marriage counseling, and none have been

particularly helpful. (One guy was using Internal Family Systems, one lady was

using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and I really couldn't tell what the other

guy was using--seemed like a lot of well-intended, yet ultimately ineffective,

talking and hand-holding.)

> >

> > So, we have not found any therapy so far to be useful. " We " have been

struggling for years with seemingly basic things like why my husband doesn't

return my phone calls when I've indicated that I really need to talk to him, or

why my husband shows up 2 hours late for date-night without having bothered to

let me know he was running late. (These are behavioral things that seem like

they really shouldn't be that hard to change -- but 8 years later, here I sit,

seeing the same disrespectful behavior again and again and again. Am I a fool to

think this can change? I even initiated a separation at one point, but that

really didn't result in the type of long-term change I would have hoped to see.

Maybe we are beyond hope; I guess I just keep hoping that some sound counseling

might help.)

> >

> > Does anyone have constructive input on this -- such as a specific type of

therapy that worked, or a particular type of professional to be recommended

(such as a clinical neuropsychologist or something else)?

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo!

> > NFL legend weighs in on , Tebow

> > Hall of Famer Joe Montana says one of the Jets' quarterbacks is clearly

better than the other.

> > Privacy Policy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi We are married, I reached out to you because your story sounded so similar to mine. We have also been married 1.5 years and have been together 8 years, I think it might be 9 coming up. He also had a mental shut down before our wedding too. I realized after that it was because that's how he handles stress because a wedding can be one of the worst situations to put them in because it is a group of people. Trust I probably have had as much or more emotional and verbal abuse as you. Counselling didn't work for us either because we need someone who has experience with an AS/NT marriage. I had an idea he may have Aspergers about a year before but we weren't sure. But I knew and I married him even though, because I know he isn't that verbally abusive or emotionally abusive man, those are just reactionary behaviours, and I know I am his world. Just like you are your hubby's world no matter what. Just by my hubby even going to get a DX was huge because he did it for me. I try to look at the good memories of our wedding but it can be difficult. I went through a long depression, still am trying to get over it, but it's hard. My depression turned into a nervous breakdown, and he tried to show support in the only way he could like printing off short keys list for the computer because I'm not as computer advanced as him. But I try to see it as romantic.Is there anything he does besides the not calling back and disrespectfulness, that you like? Please try to look at the things he does for you and the things he does to show you he loves you in his own way, focus on that, otherwise you might suffer a nervous breakdown like I did. But you're right a lot of his change and improvements will have to come from you, your strength and confidence will help him be a better husband. My husband is learning how to deal with our conflicts, so if we had a second wedding, I think we both know what we can do better so that it's not as bad as our 1st wedding. When he yells at me, I have to breathe and gather patience to say "please don't yell, I can hear you because I'm standing right in front of you." He's lowered his voice a few times, but it's still a work in progress.Wish you well, btw what's your name?

I guess I'm glad to see your post, in that it makes me feel less alone. Of course I'm not glad that you are also experiencing similar problems. I do think that you are very fortunate in that you are not married yet. In my case, I did not know my husband's diagnosis before the wedding -- he just seemed quirky, disorganized, sometimes irresponsible, and not very supportive of common social customs.

However, right around the time of the wedding, he basically "self combusted" and became very verbally and emotionally abusive. His prior quirky traits spiraled out of control, all in ways that are disrespectful to me. I won't list here the whole series of horrible things he has done and said. It has been grueling and devastating and at first I had no idea why he was being so cruel. About 1.5 years into the marriage, and after 3 marriage counselors failed to grasp what the root of many of our problems were, MY therapist realized what was going on: he has AS. Now it finally all makes sense. Every single thing fits. Unfortunately my husband doesn't seem able to change any of his behaviors, regardless of all the things he says he will do or that he says he wants to change. It's absolutely horrible and degrading. I feel like I've wasted 8 years of my life on this relationship, and I am legally trapped in it. I am not sure what to do. My 30s have basically been wasted and ruined over this. I have read all the AS books; I have done all the self-work I can do. The bottom line is, I can't make my husband be respectful or considerate towards me. (I literally can't even get the man to return my phone calls.) I am posting this here because I wish someone had warned me BEFORE I got married. I would not be in the situation I am in, if someone had been able to warn me before I got married.

The good news for you is that you are not married. I am so envious of your situation. I would strongly encourage you to seek out relationship counseling BEFORE you get married. If he won't go with you to counseling now, well -- there's a good indication of how fulfilling the relationship is likely to be for you. In my experience, my husband just got much, much worse after the wedding--something changed in his mind, after we were married.

Here is also a link to an article that I found to mirror a lot of my experiences. Maybe it will be useful for you, too:

http://www.insightpsychological.com/Library/Asperger%20Marriage.pdf

>

> > For relationships w/ one AS person and one NT person, has anyone found a type of marriage counseling that has proven to be effective? My husband and I have tried 3 different LICSWs for marriage counseling, and none have been particularly helpful. (One guy was using Internal Family Systems, one lady was using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and I really couldn't tell what the other guy was using--seemed like a lot of well-intended, yet ultimately ineffective, talking and hand-holding.)

> >

> > So, we have not found any therapy so far to be useful. "We" have been struggling for years with seemingly basic things like why my husband doesn't return my phone calls when I've indicated that I really need to talk to him, or why my husband shows up 2 hours late for date-night without having bothered to let me know he was running late. (These are behavioral things that seem like they really shouldn't be that hard to change -- but 8 years later, here I sit, seeing the same disrespectful behavior again and again and again. Am I a fool to think this can change? I even initiated a separation at one point, but that really didn't result in the type of long-term change I would have hoped to see. Maybe we are beyond hope; I guess I just keep hoping that some sound counseling might help.)

> >

> > Does anyone have constructive input on this -- such as a specific type of therapy that worked, or a particular type of professional to be recommended (such as a clinical neuropsychologist or something else)?

> >

> > Thank you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo!

> > NFL legend weighs in on , Tebow

> > Hall of Famer Joe Montana says one of the Jets' quarterbacks is clearly better than the other.

> > Privacy Policy

>

[Guest guest]

Ladies,

First of all, thank you for your support and encouragement. It means more than

you might know to me, as I have not really found friends who can understand

what's going on in our marriage. So thank you for being able to understand --

even though I know that ability has come at great expense in your own personal

lives.

I would be intersted in hearing from spouses/partners who have been in these

relationships longer than we have. I ask this because now that I actually know

what is going on in our marriage, I am wondering if it is advisable for me to

stay in the relationship. Now that I understand why all this damage is occuring

to me, I am not sure that I can/should keep trying to tough it out. Keep in

mind that I've been in this relationship for 7.5 or 8 years, and despite having

been married for 2 years, my husband refused to live with me. I can't get him

to return my calls, and he essentially just isn't a supportive partner to me. A

" good " day = he hasn't been verbally abusive. I have heard my husband say xxxx

thousand times that he is going to try to change his abusive behaviors in order

to save the marriage, but it hasn't occurred. It is now at the point where I

fear that substantial mental damage is likely occcuring for me. Nothing about

this feels particularly healthy or balanced.

Don't get me wrong; my husband would like to stay married to me. He doesn't

want to live with me, and he doesn't want to return my phone calls when I need

his help, and he doesn't really want us to have a social circle. So while my

husband feels he is getting some kind of benefit somewhere in this mess, I am

weighing whether his benefit is worth all the damage that is happening to me.

There was a time when I was much more optimistic about the relationship, but by

now I have seen the same patterns happening again and again, and I am not sure

that it is wise to keep trying at this relationship. (Who should be expected to

stay in a marriage where your partner won't live with you? And don't get me

started on sexual conflict between us.)

So, this is why I would be interested in hearing from folks who have endured

these situations longer than I have. I am wondering if you are glad you stayed,

or if you wish you would have left much earlier... or if you are thinking

something else altogether.

> > >

> > > > For relationships w/ one AS person and one NT person, has anyone found a

type of marriage counseling that has proven to be effective? My husband and I

have tried 3 different LICSWs for marriage counseling, and none have been

particularly helpful. (One guy was using Internal Family Systems, one lady was

using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and I really couldn't tell what the other

guy was using--seemed like a lot of well-intended, yet ultimately ineffective,

talking and hand-holding.)

> > > >

> > > > So, we have not found any therapy so far to be useful. " We " have been

struggling for years with seemingly basic things like why my husband doesn't

return my phone calls when I've indicated that I really need to talk to him, or

why my husband shows up 2 hours late for date-night without having bothered to

let me know he was running late. (These are behavioral things that seem like

they really shouldn't be that hard to change -- but 8 years later, here I sit,

seeing the same disrespectful behavior again and again and again. Am I a fool to

think this can change? I even initiated a separation at one point, but that

really didn't result in the type of long-term change I would have hoped to see.

Maybe we are beyond hope; I guess I just keep hoping that some sound counseling

might help.)

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone have constructive input on this -- such as a specific type

of therapy that worked, or a particular type of professional to be recommended

(such as a clinical neuropsychologist or something else)?

> > > >

> > > > Thank you.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo!

> > > > NFL legend weighs in on , Tebow

> > > > Hall of Famer Joe Montana says one of the Jets' quarterbacks is clearly

better than the other.

> > > > Privacy Policy

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear jlkraybill,I guess I was lucky enough to find a LMFC (in Warner Robins, GA) that was able to diagnosed my husband and " speak " his technical/robotic language.  I really do not know what technique she used, but she did tell us that we will not be able to be 50-50 in the relationship, that we had to work (both of us) really hard (and every day) to kind of meet somewhere along the way.  Do not be dissapointed, I do not mean to bring you down, sometimes I have to give 70 while others I give 40 or 50.  I had to re-adjust my emotional talk, to terms that he can relate to.  My husband does not have the genetic imprint to understand what empathy means, and that is a part I cannot alter.  On the other hand, I am a very (very) emotional person, and we (my hubby and I) are not a match in heaven, but we did fall in-love with each other.  Unfortunately, scheduling EVERYTHING works for us.  I have a calendar on the fridge were I keep the kids' activities, my appointments, and his meetings annotated (so he is prepared for the day/week/month).  I could go on and on, but I won't, just let me know if there is any info/suggestions/venting I can provide.

Garah

 

For relationships w/ one AS person and one NT person, has anyone found a type of marriage counseling that has proven to be effective? My husband and I have tried 3 different LICSWs for marriage counseling, and none have been particularly helpful. (One guy was using Internal Family Systems, one lady was using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and I really couldn't tell what the other guy was using--seemed like a lot of well-intended, yet ultimately ineffective, talking and hand-holding.)

So, we have not found any therapy so far to be useful. " We " have been struggling for years with seemingly basic things like why my husband doesn't return my phone calls when I've indicated that I really need to talk to him, or why my husband shows up 2 hours late for date-night without having bothered to let me know he was running late. (These are behavioral things that seem like they really shouldn't be that hard to change -- but 8 years later, here I sit, seeing the same disrespectful behavior again and again and again. Am I a fool to think this can change? I even initiated a separation at one point, but that really didn't result in the type of long-term change I would have hoped to see. Maybe we are beyond hope; I guess I just keep hoping that some sound counseling might help.)

Does anyone have constructive input on this -- such as a specific type of therapy that worked, or a particular type of professional to be recommended (such as a clinical neuropsychologist or something else)?

Thank you.

-- Garah María

[Guest guest]

What is an LMFC? Is that anything like an LCSW?~ "Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal."--Albert Camus Sent from my VZW BlackBerrySender: aspires-relationships Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:24:41 -0400To: <aspires-relationships >ReplyTo: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: Marriage therapy: recommended approaches? Dear jlkraybill,I guess I was lucky enough to find a LMFC (in Warner Robins, GA) that was able to diagnosed my husband and " speak " his technical/robotic language.  I really do not know what technique she used, but she did tell us that we will not be able to be 50-50 in the relationship, that we had to work (both of us) really hard (and every day) to kind of meet somewhere along the way.  Do not be dissapointed, I do not mean to bring you down, sometimes I have to give 70 while others I give 40 or 50.  I had to re-adjust my emotional talk, to terms that he can relate to.  My husband does not have the genetic imprint to understand what empathy means, and that is a part I cannot alter.  On the other hand, I am a very (very) emotional person, and we (my hubby and I) are not a match in heaven, but we did fall in-love with each other.  Unfortunately, scheduling EVERYTHING works for us.  I have a calendar on the fridge were I keep the kids' activities, my appointments, and his meetings annotated (so he is prepared for the day/week/month).  I could go on and on, but I won't, just let me know if there is any info/suggestions/venting I can provide.Garah  For relationships w/ one AS person and one NT person, has anyone found a type of marriage counseling that has proven to be effective? My husband and I have tried 3 different LICSWs for marriage counseling, and none have been particularly helpful. (One guy was using Internal Family Systems, one lady was using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and I really couldn't tell what the other guy was using--seemed like a lot of well-intended, yet ultimately ineffective, talking and hand-holding.)So, we have not found any therapy so far to be useful. " We " have been struggling for years with seemingly basic things like why my husband doesn't return my phone calls when I've indicated that I really need to talk to him, or why my husband shows up 2 hours late for date-night without having bothered to let me know he was running late. (These are behavioral things that seem like they really shouldn't be that hard to change -- but 8 years later, here I sit, seeing the same disrespectful behavior again and again and again. Am I a fool to think this can change? I even initiated a separation at one point, but that really didn't result in the type of long-term change I would have hoped to see. Maybe we are beyond hope; I guess I just keep hoping that some sound counseling might help.)Does anyone have constructive input on this -- such as a specific type of therapy that worked, or a particular type of professional to be recommended (such as a clinical neuropsychologist or something else)? Thank you.-- Garah María

[Guest guest]

LMFC

Licensed Marriage and Family Counselor. Every state's licensing requirements differ, although the American Counseling Association has a professional interest group with its own journal, professional ethics and standards, and best practices group. The state might defer to that group or organization in establishing its practice standards and educational prerequisites.

N. Meyer

Re: Marriage therapy: recommended approaches?

Dear jlkraybill,I guess I was lucky enough to find a LMFC (in Warner Robins, GA) that was able to diagnosed my husband and "speak" his technical/robotic language. I really do not know what technique she used, but she did tell us that we will not be able to be 50-50 in the relationship, that we had to work (both of us) really hard (and every day) to kind of meet somewhere along the way. Do not be dissapointed, I do not mean to bring you down, sometimes I have to give 70 while others I give 40 or 50. I had to re-adjust my emotional talk, to terms that he can relate to. My husband does not have the genetic imprint to understand what empathy means, and that is a part I cannot alter. On the other hand, I am a very (very) emotional person, and we (my hubby and I) are not a match in heaven, but we did fall in-love with each other. Unfortunately, scheduling EVERYTHING works for us. I have a calendar on the fridge were I keep the kids' activities, my appointments, and his meetings annotated (so he is prepared for the day/week/month). I could go on and on, but I won't, just let me know if there is any info/suggestions/venting I can provide.Garah

For relationships w/ one AS person and one NT person, has anyone found a type of marriage counseling that has proven to be effective? My husband and I have tried 3 different LICSWs for marriage counseling, and none have been particularly helpful. (One guy was using Internal Family Systems, one lady was using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and I really couldn't tell what the other guy was using--seemed like a lot of well-intended, yet ultimately ineffective, talking and hand-holding.)So, we have not found any therapy so far to be useful. "We" have been struggling for years with seemingly basic things like why my husband doesn't return my phone calls when I've indicated that I really need to talk to him, or why my husband shows up 2 hours late for date-night without having bothered to let me know he was running late. (These are behavioral things that seem like they really shouldn't be that hard to change -- but 8 years later, here I sit, seeing the same disrespectful behavior again and again and again. Am I a fool to think this can change? I even initiated a separation at one point, but that really didn't result in the type of long-term change I would have hoped to see. Maybe we are beyond hope; I guess I just keep hoping that some sound counseling might help.)Does anyone have constructive input on this -- such as a specific type of therapy that worked, or a particular type of professional to be recommended (such as a clinical neuropsychologist or something else)? Thank you.

-- Garah María

[Guest guest]

<snipped>

> I would be intersted in hearing from spouses/partners who have been in these

relationships longer than we have. I ask this because now that I actually know

what is going on in our marriage, I am wondering if it is advisable for me to

stay in the relationship. Now that I understand why all this damage is occuring

to me, I am not sure that I can/should keep trying to tough it out. Keep in

mind that I've been in this relationship for 7.5 or 8 years, and despite having

been married for 2 years, my husband refused to live with me.

Wow! This doesn't even sound like a marriage. There is a lot more going on than

just AS there.

> I can't get him to return my calls, and he essentially just isn't a supportive

partner to me.

All kinds of red flags here! It would almost make one wonder if he is leading a

double life. Even if he isn't, this is NOT a marriage.

> A " good " day = he hasn't been verbally abusive. I have heard my husband say

xxxx thousand times that he is going to try to change his abusive behaviors in

order to save the marriage, but it hasn't occurred. It is now at the point

where I fear that substantial mental damage is likely occcuring for me. Nothing

about this feels particularly healthy or balanced.

Your feelings aren't off the mark. Nothing about this is healthy or balanced.

> Don't get me wrong; my husband would like to stay married to me.

Well I'm sure he would. He knows that there are very few people who would

tolerate what you tolerate.

> He doesn't want to live with me, and he doesn't want to return my phone calls

when I need his help, and he doesn't really want us to have a social circle. So

while my husband feels he is getting some kind of benefit somewhere in this

mess, I am weighing whether his benefit is worth all the damage that is

happening to me.

With the length of time you have already been in this relationship, the record

stands for itself. His past and present behaviors do not bode well for

meaningful change in the time frame that you need it to happen. The real

question, Leaving AS out of the equation here (because believe me, this is not

normal AS behavior) is how much longer can your self esteem hold up in this

non-marriage?

> There was a time when I was much more optimistic about the relationship, but

by now I have seen the same patterns happening again and again, and I am not

sure that it is wise to keep trying at this relationship. (Who should be

expected to stay in a marriage where your partner won't live with you? And

don't get me started on sexual conflict between us.)

I really have to wonder what kind of meaningful " help " you have had in the past.

You sound like such a loving, understanding and tolerant person, and to my mind,

a responsible counsellor, having heard everything you have just told us, would

point out that you deserve much better.

Please forgive my bluntness. I am no expert and certainly not normally given to

these kinds of pronouncements, but this whole situation is straight up WRONG.

Please see a good counsellor for yourself, okay? You don't even need one that

knows a single thing about AS because that's really extraneous to the real

issues here. Just find someone who understands long term mental abuse and its

impact - PTSD - to the partner.

- Helen

[Guest guest]

>

> <snipped>

>> I would be intersted in hearing from spouses/partners who have been in these

relationships longer than we have. I ask this because now that I actually know

what is going on in our marriage, I am wondering if it is advisable for me to

stay in the relationship. Now that I understand why all this damage is occuring

to me, I am not sure that I can/should keep trying to tough it out. Keep in

mind that I've been in this relationship for 7.5 or 8 years, and despite having

been married for 2 years, my husband refused to live with me.

>

> Wow! This doesn't even sound like a marriage. There is a lot more going on

than just AS there.

A lot of people have trouble with the idea that someone can have more than one

mental condition at a time.

I think we here know better, but many people think that AS is responsible for

all of someone's problems. People with AS, no other mental conditions, and a

healthy childhood are good people -- a little clueless in some places, a bit

sensitive in others, but nothing worse than your average NT -- just different.

My ex is Aspie, but he also has repressed childhood abuse, possibly sexual (I

learned from his sister), is uncomfortable with his sexual orientation, and may

have bipolar on top of everything else. His AS certainly didn't make life with

him any easier, but it was the smallest of our problems.

--Liz

[Guest guest]

Thank you for this perspective CJ, it helps comprehend the behaviour and it really sounds plausible so helps me not feel as peturbed by it . Have a lovely day x

Hazel (NT ) married to TC (AS)

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

..

[Guest guest]

> 'Well we are married now, so I don't have to make as much effort to keep you

here'

> I was utterly stunned and it took at least 6 months before he would even

consider

> starting to act with any consideration towards me.

>

> I still go through times when I wonder if he really is a mild

sociopath..anyone else see any similarities in their partner?

> He can be very kind when he wants to be, but the key words are 'when he wants

to be'!

> Hazel (NT & Tc (AS) married 30 + yrs

[i'm back, after a hard drive crash.]

Sounds like my soon to be ex.

Because we were married, I was supposed to " adore " him -- simply because we were

married. I was supposed to be sexually turned on by him, 24/7, because we were

married, and regardless of the fact that he was on the down low (= sneaking out

to have one night stands with men).

Though the phrase of his that I hated most was directed at the kids:

" I'm the Dad and you're the kid, so you have to do what I say. "

While it sure looked like sociopathy, I think it was mind-blindness instead. He

was (and is) never able to understand that different people had their own

motivations and interests, that their pasts and personalities affected their

actions.

Even now, stbx is gobsmacked each time I act out of kindness in a situation

where he would have been nasty. He was at the house (with lawyer) a week ago,

and asked for some paintings his mother made -- and was shocked that I freely

gave them to him. Ditto with his elementary school projects, college journal and

favorite hammer. He has no understanding why I gave such valuable treasures

away!

--Liz

[Guest guest]

> 'Well we are married now, so I don't have to make as much effort to keep you

here'

> I was utterly stunned and it took at least 6 months before he would even

consider

> starting to act with any consideration towards me.

>

> I still go through times when I wonder if he really is a mild

sociopath..anyone else see any similarities in their partner?

> He can be very kind when he wants to be, but the key words are 'when he wants

to be'!

> Hazel (NT & Tc (AS) married 30 + yrs

[i'm back, after a hard drive crash.]

Sounds like my soon to be ex.

Because we were married, I was supposed to " adore " him -- simply because we were

married. I was supposed to be sexually turned on by him, 24/7, because we were

married, and regardless of the fact that he was on the down low (= sneaking out

to have one night stands with men).

Though the phrase of his that I hated most was directed at the kids:

" I'm the Dad and you're the kid, so you have to do what I say. "

While it sure looked like sociopathy, I think it was mind-blindness instead. He

was (and is) never able to understand that different people had their own

motivations and interests, that their pasts and personalities affected their

actions.

Even now, stbx is gobsmacked each time I act out of kindness in a situation

where he would have been nasty. He was at the house (with lawyer) a week ago,

and asked for some paintings his mother made -- and was shocked that I freely

gave them to him. Ditto with his elementary school projects, college journal and

favorite hammer. He has no understanding why I gave such valuable treasures

away!

--Liz