RE: Autoimmune modulation

May 23, 2012

I like to use Curcuma as it seems to downregulate the inflammatory portion of Graves', as well as using those you mentioned. Very important: make sure they are on a good fish oil and that Vit D levels are adeqaute - sometimes these 2 are enough on their own.There are gluten receptors on the thyroid: if she is gluten intolerant and continues to eat it you will not be significantly successful. J Fidler, MCPP, (RH) AHGHerbalist To: ukherbal-list Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:23 AM Subject: Autoimmune modulation

Can anyone help me to understand how herbs work in autoimmune cases?

I have a new patient coming in next week presenting with Graves. She's taking Carbimazole but would like to reduce dosage and I'm planning to use Lycopus & to help her to that end, but she is also particularly keen to address the autoimmune aspect of her case.

I'm not too clear on which herbs to use, nor on the mechanisms that confer relevant dampening of autoimmune action. I've seen both Echinacea and Astragalus listed as being both immune stimulating and immunomodulating. Is it a case of dosage - a high dose for stimulation and lower dose for modulating actions?

I'm aware that Turmeric, Astragalus and Ganoderma are suggested for use in autoimmune cases, but don't understand how they work their effects, especially in terms of not stimulating the immune system, but dampening autoimmune response.

Does anyone have any ideas which herbs could be appropriate and also explain to me the rationale for their use. I'd like to understand these matters more clearly !

Many thanks,

May 23, 2012

Hi Don’t forget the Boraginaceae here: big potential effect in Graves – I would consider Borago and/or LithospermumBest wishesCraig From: ukherbal-list [mailto:ukherbal-list ] On Behalf Of andiemurph@...Sent: 23 May 2012 16:24To: ukherbal-list Subject: Autoimmune modulation Can anyone help me to understand how herbs work in autoimmune cases?I have a new patient coming in next week presenting with Graves. She's taking Carbimazole but would like to reduce dosage and I'm planning to use Lycopus & to help her to that end, but she is also particularly keen to address the autoimmune aspect of her case.I'm not too clear on which herbs to use, nor on the mechanisms that confer relevant dampening of autoimmune action. I've seen both Echinacea and Astragalus listed as being both immune stimulating and immunomodulating. Is it a case of dosage - a high dose for stimulation and lower dose for modulating actions?I'm aware that Turmeric, Astragalus and Ganoderma are suggested for use in autoimmune cases, but don't understand how they work their effects, especially in terms of not stimulating the immune system, but dampening autoimmune response. Does anyone have any ideas which herbs could be appropriate and also explain to me the rationale for their use. I'd like to understand these matters more clearly ! Many thanks,No virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5016 - Release Date: 05/22/12

May 23, 2012

Also Leonorus.Sally OwenHi Don’t forget the Boraginaceae here: big potential effect in Graves – I would consider Borago and/or LithospermumBest wishesCraig From: ukherbal-list [mailto:ukherbal-list ] On Behalf Of andiemurph@...Sent: 23 May 2012 16:24To: ukherbal-list Subject: Autoimmune modulation Can anyone help me to understand how herbs work in autoimmune cases?I have a new patient coming in next week presenting with Graves. She's taking Carbimazole but would like to reduce dosage and I'm planning to use Lycopus & to help her to that end, but she is also particularly keen to address the autoimmune aspect of her case.I'm not too clear on which herbs to use, nor on the mechanisms that confer relevant dampening of autoimmune action. I've seen both Echinacea and Astragalus listed as being both immune stimulating and immunomodulating. Is it a case of dosage - a high dose for stimulation and lower dose for modulating actions?I'm aware that Turmeric, Astragalus and Ganoderma are suggested for use in autoimmune cases, but don't understand how they work their effects, especially in terms of not stimulating the immune system, but dampening autoimmune response. Does anyone have any ideas which herbs could be appropriate and also explain to me the rationale for their use. I'd like to understand these matters more clearly ! Many thanks,No virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5016 - Release Date: 05/22/12

May 24, 2012

Hi ,Could you explain the gluten action a little more, I have not seen this research before. Is it that incomplete breakdown of the gluten blocks uptake of thyroid hormones?ThanksJules MNIMH I like to use Curcuma as it seems to downregulate the inflammatory portion of Graves', as well as using those you mentioned. Very important: make sure they are on a good fish oil and that Vit D levels are adeqaute - sometimes these 2 are enough on their own.There are gluten receptors on the thyroid: if she is gluten intolerant and continues to eat it you will not be significantly successful. J Fidler, MCPP, (RH) AHGHerbalist To: ukherbal-list Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:23 AM Subject: Autoimmune modulation Can anyone help me to understand how herbs work in autoimmune cases? I have a new patient coming in next week presenting with Graves. She's taking Carbimazole but would like to reduce dosage and I'm planning to use Lycopus & to help her to that end, but she is also particularly keen to address the autoimmune aspect of her case. I'm not too clear on which herbs to use, nor on the mechanisms that confer relevant dampening of autoimmune action. I've seen both Echinacea and Astragalus listed as being both immune stimulating and immunomodulating. Is it a case of dosage - a high dose for stimulation and lower dose for modulating actions? I'm aware that Turmeric, Astragalus and Ganoderma are suggested for use in autoimmune cases, but don't understand how they work their effects, especially in terms of not stimulating the immune system, but dampening autoimmune response. Does anyone have any ideas which herbs could be appropriate and also explain to me the rationale for their use. I'd like to understand these matters more clearly ! Many thanks,

May 24, 2012

Sorry to bring a commercial preparation into this but I was needing to treat a patient with mild thyroid disturbance (due yo stress) where only the antibody levels were raised. I referred to a lot of archive material on this list and constructed a formula based on that. At a conference I was surprised to see a preparation Thyroid Response Complete by Innate that was almost identical to the formula I'd come up with! I got some, gave to the patient and within two months all was normal again! I always consider using this in these cases now. It may be helpful for you to look at the ingredients/refer back to other posts on this list to see how these things work in such cases. It was of great help to me.If you'd like to know more do a web search or contact me offlist please.LorraineLorraine Hodgkinson MRCHMHERBS AND HELPERS6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)www.herbalmedicineuk.comOn 23 May 2012, at 15:23, "andiemurph@..." wrote:

Can anyone help me to understand how herbs work in autoimmune cases?

I have a new patient coming in next week presenting with Graves. She's taking Carbimazole but would like to reduce dosage and I'm planning to use Lycopus & to help her to that end, but she is also particularly keen to address the autoimmune aspect of her case.

I'm not too clear on which herbs to use, nor on the mechanisms that confer relevant dampening of autoimmune action. I've seen both Echinacea and Astragalus listed as being both immune stimulating and immunomodulating. Is it a case of dosage - a high dose for stimulation and lower dose for modulating actions?

I'm aware that Turmeric, Astragalus and Ganoderma are suggested for use in autoimmune cases, but don't understand how they work their effects, especially in terms of not stimulating the immune system, but dampening autoimmune response.

Does anyone have any ideas which herbs could be appropriate and also explain to me the rationale for their use. I'd like to understand these matters more clearly !

Many thanks,

May 24, 2012

Yes, I read that high levels of cytokines have detremental consequences in autoimmune disease, so mediating the inflammatory response makes sense. I wonder how do you assess if someone has adequate vit D levels?Many thanks, ______________________________________________________________________________________Willow Herbal ClinicWeb: www.willowherbal.co.ukTel: 01903 816426 To: "ukherbal-list " <ukherbal-list > Sent: Wednesday, 23 May 2012, 15:42 Subject: Re: Autoimmune modulation

I like to use Curcuma as it seems to downregulate the inflammatory portion of Graves', as well as using those you mentioned. Very important: make sure they are on a good fish oil and that Vit D levels are adeqaute - sometimes these 2 are enough on their own.There are gluten receptors on the thyroid: if she is gluten intolerant and continues to eat it you will not be significantly successful. J Fidler, MCPP, (RH) AHGHerbalist

To: ukherbal-list Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:23 AM Subject: Autoimmune modulation

Can anyone help me to understand how herbs work in autoimmune cases?

I have a new patient coming in next week presenting with Graves. She's taking Carbimazole but would like to reduce dosage and I'm planning to use Lycopus & to help her to that end, but she is also particularly keen to address the autoimmune aspect of her case.

I'm not too clear on which herbs to use, nor on the mechanisms that confer relevant dampening of autoimmune action. I've seen both Echinacea and Astragalus listed as being both immune stimulating and immunomodulating. Is it a case of dosage - a high dose for stimulation and lower dose for modulating actions?

I'm aware that Turmeric, Astragalus and Ganoderma are suggested for use in autoimmune cases, but don't understand how they work their effects, especially in terms of not stimulating the immune system, but dampening autoimmune response.

Does anyone have any ideas which herbs could be appropriate and also explain to me the rationale for their use. I'd like to understand these matters more clearly !

Many thanks,

May 24, 2012

Dear all, thank you for the suggestions made - Craig, I hadn't considered Lithospermum, I may look into that.Lorraine, its interesting looking at Thyroid Response Complete and great that you got such a good result. I'm not sure I could use these particular herbs in this case as I'm looking to dampen down thyroid function rather than enhance it. However, fascinating to hear how the antibody levels normalised within two months. Hmmmm. Food for thought.Thank you for your input.Regards, ______________________________________________________________________________________Willow Herbal ClinicWeb:

www.willowherbal.co.ukTel: 01903 816426 To: "ukherbal-list " <ukherbal-list > Sent: Thursday, 24 May 2012, 10:42 Subject: Re: Autoimmune modulation

Sorry to bring a commercial preparation into this but I was needing to treat a patient with mild thyroid disturbance (due yo stress) where only the antibody levels were raised. I referred to a lot of archive material on this list and constructed a formula based on that. At a conference I was surprised to see a preparation Thyroid Response Complete by Innate that was almost identical to the formula I'd come up with! I got some, gave to the patient and within two months all was normal again! I always consider using this in these cases now. It may be helpful for you to look at the ingredients/refer back to other posts on this list to see how these things work in such cases. It was of great help to me.If you'd like to know more do a web search or contact me offlist please.LorraineLorraine Hodgkinson MRCHMHERBS AND HELPERS6, Butts

Fold, Cockermouth,Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)www.herbalmedicineuk.comOn 23 May 2012, at 15:23, "andiemurph@..." wrote:

Can anyone help me to understand how herbs work in autoimmune cases?

I have a new patient coming in next week presenting with Graves. She's taking Carbimazole but would like to reduce dosage and I'm planning to use Lycopus & to help her to that end, but she is also particularly keen to address the autoimmune aspect of her case.

I'm not too clear on which herbs to use, nor on the mechanisms that confer relevant dampening of autoimmune action. I've seen both Echinacea and Astragalus listed as being both immune stimulating and immunomodulating. Is it a case of dosage - a high dose for stimulation and lower dose for modulating actions?

I'm aware that Turmeric, Astragalus and Ganoderma are suggested for use in autoimmune cases, but don't understand how they work their effects, especially in terms of not stimulating the immune system, but dampening autoimmune response.

Does anyone have any ideas which herbs could be appropriate and also explain to me the rationale for their use. I'd like to understand these matters more clearly !

Many thanks,

May 24, 2012

ï»¿

if the Gp wont do a test then you can order one from www.cityassays.org.uk - it is done by the clinical biochemistry department of birmingham hospital. it costs Â£25. and they sent a kit out with full instructions etc.

initially you can always assess their possible vit d status by symptom picture - see Vit D council website for more info on deficiency signs

regards ,annette

Autoimmune modulation

Can anyone help me to understand how herbs work in autoimmune cases?I have a new patient coming in next week presenting with Graves. She's taking Carbimazole but would like to reduce dosage and I'm planning to use Lycopus & to help her to that end, but she is also particularly keen to address the autoimmune aspect of her case.I'm not too clear on which herbs to use, nor on the mechanisms that confer relevant dampening of autoimmune action. I've seen both Echinacea and Astragalus listed as being both immune stimulating and immunomodulating. Is it a case of dosage - a high dose for stimulation and lower dose for modulating actions?I'm aware that Turmeric, Astragalus and Ganoderma are suggested for use in autoimmune cases, but don't understand how they work their effects, especially in terms of not stimulating the immune system, but dampening autoimmune response. Does anyone have any ideas which herbs could be appropriate and also explain to me the rationale for their use. I'd like to understand these matters more clearly ! Many thanks,

No virus found in this message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 2012.0.2171 / Virus Database: 2425/5018 - Release Date: 05/23/12

May 24, 2012

GPs can test for serum vitamin D2 and D3 status. If not the tests can be carried out privately e.g. at Genova Diagnostics. Best wishes, From: ukherbal-list [mailto:ukherbal-list ] On Behalf Of Sent: 24 May 2012 12:43To: ukherbal-list Subject: Re: Autoimmune modulation Yes, I read that high levels of cytokines have detremental consequences in autoimmune disease, so mediating the inflammatory response makes sense. I wonder how do you assess if someone has adequate vit D levels? Many thanks, ______________________________________________________________________________________Willow Herbal ClinicWeb: www.willowherbal.co.ukTel: 01903 816426To: " ukherbal-list " <ukherbal-list > Sent: Wednesday, 23 May 2012, 15:42Subject: Re: Autoimmune modulation I like to use Curcuma as it seems to downregulate the inflammatory portion of Graves', as well as using those you mentioned. Very important: make sure they are on a good fish oil and that Vit D levels are adeqaute - sometimes these 2 are enough on their own.There are gluten receptors on the thyroid: if she is gluten intolerant and continues to eat it you will not be significantly successful. J Fidler, MCPP, (RH) AHGHerbalistTo: ukherbal-list Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:23 AMSubject: Autoimmune modulation Can anyone help me to understand how herbs work in autoimmune cases?I have a new patient coming in next week presenting with Graves. She's taking Carbimazole but would like to reduce dosage and I'm planning to use Lycopus & to help her to that end, but she is also particularly keen to address the autoimmune aspect of her case.I'm not too clear on which herbs to use, nor on the mechanisms that confer relevant dampening of autoimmune action. I've seen both Echinacea and Astragalus listed as being both immune stimulating and immunomodulating. Is it a case of dosage - a high dose for stimulation and lower dose for modulating actions?I'm aware that Turmeric, Astragalus and Ganoderma are suggested for use in autoimmune cases, but don't understand how they work their effects, especially in terms of not stimulating the immune system, but dampening autoimmune response. Does anyone have any ideas which herbs could be appropriate and also explain to me the rationale for their use. I'd like to understand these matters more clearly ! Many thanks,

May 24, 2012

I wonder how do you assess if someone has adequate vit D levels? A simple, widely available blood test.Â I use one provided by Birmingham City Hospital â€“ costs Â£30 â€“ itâ€™s a DIY one â€“ they send out a kit, just requires patient to provide a drop of blood, and results are returned to patient.Â You order it by phone (google to find the link) Â and it doesnâ€™t matter where in the country you are.Â Itâ€™s the cheapest test Iâ€™ve come across. If you can make a good case for it (eg. Low immunity, dark skin colour (manufactures vit. D more slowly), low exposure to sunlight over past few months, etc.) GP should do it.Â But they are getting funny about the expense of vitamin D tests around here.Â Â

May 25, 2012

Hello , I was just so surprised that the formula I was planning to use and the supplement co-incided so well! Also there were added nutrients that would have helped the stress aspect. I had tried some of the stuff as a free conference pack and could feel the effects straightaway. Ultimately I thought it would be most convenient for my patient to take everything in one. Yes I understand theres iodine in there but based on Drum and the general regulatory thrust I went ahead. It's also popular with web customers and other practitioners.Best wishes,LorraineLorraine Hodgkinson MRCHMHERBS AND HELPERS6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)www.herbalmedicineuk.comOn 24 May 2012, at 13:00, wrote: