Re: treating lupus without tinctures

[Guest guest]

How about Ganoderma? anti-hypertensive, relaxing nervine (it's also known as Chinese Spirit mushroom because it calms the Shen), adaptogen, liver restorative, antiviral, immunomodulator for autoimmune conditions. Sounds like the perfect choice!

Dear List

I have a new patient, a 55 year old woman with lupus diagnosed last December. Her main problems have been constant sharp pain in chest (4 years), pain migrating through limbs, swelling coming and going in hands, feet and sometimes legs, itchy skin and what she describes as 'popping off' of blood vessels when she overdoes things by walking too far or being stressed, severe headaches in occipital area, tiredness.

She's on a lot of medication inc Hydroxychloroquine, Atenolol (15-16 years) but I found her diastolic pressure high, ?Lofepramine (TCA), Ibuprofen, Cocodamol, Amitryptilene.

Depression since childhood inc suicidal thoughts last few years. severe headaches started in menopause 12 years ago.

2006-09 she worked in a drycleaning environment and wonders if this is a factor.

At 5 years old she had hepatitis A which involved a long hospital stay on a drip (in Russia where she's from). The tincture I gave her was:

Bosw serr

Card mar

Crat oxy

Rehm raw

Urt fol

Vacc

Total 115ml, 5ml tds

It relieved her chest pain effectively which she feels was due to improved circulation. But she didn't get on with it because she said it made her liver 'swells'. Boiling the alcohol off doesn't improve this sensation and she is adamant about this.

Have you any ideas? I'm wondering about medicinal mushrooms.

best wishes and thanks

Katharine (Locke)

[Guest guest]

Sorry if this is a bit off-track, this is non-herbal. But total removal of gluten for an extended period of time is something to try from the get-go (and removal of all cereals/grains as a matter of fact, cause other cereal proteins can be problematic in those autoimmune conditions). 

For lupus specifically, I used to recommend a variation of the Seignalet diet, Seignalet being a french doctor who obtained quite amazing results in auto-immune diseases like Lupus. See the link below:

http://paleozonenutrition.com/2011/04/01/dr-jean-seignalet-ancestral-diet-and-auto-immune-disease-trials/

I have evolved my nutritional protocol to now exclude all grains (including spelt, millet, etc - allowed under the seignalet diet), and to exclude all oils that can go rancid - canola, sunflower, etc. (which is allowed under the seignalet diet). Obviously low carb and close to zero sugar if patient open to this.

I have found that even though dairies can be problematic, they seem to be a lot less problematic than grains/gluten (not specifically for Lupus, but in general). I do removal/reintroduction of dairies anyway, cause those people need as little food toxins as possible, but I try to add cheese back if the person tolerates it, because those people need good stable fats, including butter from grass fed cows, coconut oil, raw-milk cheeses, free range eggs, etc.

[Guest guest]

Many thanks Aine-Marie and Christophe for your replies, both very helpful.

Very interested in your link, Christophe, to the French doctor I haven't heard

of before. More and more natural medicine authorities point to gluten-free and

carb-free, though they compensate for the carbs in some very different ways, and

I definitely have in mind to advise low carb/GF for this px.

After Afifah Hamilton's talk on paleo-diets at the recent NIMH seminar in

Birmingham I'm left with one question. Afifah advocates low to very low carb

diets for various therapeutic purposes, compensating with fat and animal

protein. I'd value more info on the environmental effects of this, if anyone

can help.

best wishes

Katharine

>

> Sorry if this is a bit off-track, this is non-herbal. But total removal of

> gluten for an extended period of time is something to try from the get-go

> (and removal of all cereals/grains as a matter of fact, cause other cereal

> proteins can be problematic in those autoimmune conditions).

>

> For lupus specifically, I used to recommend a variation of the Seignalet

> diet, Seignalet being a french doctor who obtained quite amazing results in

> auto-immune diseases like Lupus. See the link below:

>

http://paleozonenutrition.com/2011/04/01/dr-jean-seignalet-ancestral-diet-and-au\

to-immune-disease-trials/

>

> I have evolved my nutritional protocol to now exclude all grains (including

> spelt, millet, etc - allowed under the seignalet diet), and to exclude all

> oils that can go rancid - canola, sunflower, etc. (which is allowed under

> the seignalet diet). Obviously low carb and close to zero sugar if patient

> open to this.

>

> I have found that even though dairies can be problematic, they seem to be a

> lot less problematic than grains/gluten (not specifically for Lupus, but in

> general). I do removal/reintroduction of dairies anyway, cause those people

> need as little food toxins as possible, but I try to add cheese back if the

> person tolerates it, because those people need good stable fats, including

> butter from grass fed cows, coconut oil, raw-milk cheeses, free range eggs,

> etc.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Katharine,

You ask about environmental impacts of paleo type diets. This is

something that has troubled my conscience for many months.

The received wisdom is that it if the main calories in the diet are

obtained from beef then 10x as much land is required than if same amount

of calories were from grown crops (both grains and vegetables). Slightly

less for lamb as many sheep are grazed on land where crops wouldn't grow

anyway, pork is probably worse than beef as pigs are mainly raised

intensively i.e. no natural grazing, all food for them has to be grown

and trucked in. NB dairy is just as bad as beef - milk cows still eat

and have to have annual calf.

Then add in the greenhouse gases - methane from ruminant belching and

CO2 from trucks delivering food for animals and trucking them to

slaughter etc.

It becomes obvious that if we all revert to paleo diets, or even a

significant minority do, then somehow the global population needs to

start shrinking really fast. Or looking at it another way, for every

rich westerner that decides a paleo diet is the way to go, tens of

people in the developing world must undergo further starvation and

death.

The other problem I have with paleo diets is that we hardly have a paleo

lifestyle - perhaps if those who wish to have such a diet had to go and

catch their animal and kill it with a spear then butcher it with stone

tools, collect firewood, start a fire by rubbing sticks or whatever then

cook said animal they would be even healthier ;-)

Just my 5 pennyworth of a pet subject!

a

[Guest guest]



I agree with you entirely, the world cannot support its current population and certianly not on a hunter gather (paleo) diet even if it is more natural. It is something only very few can do for themselves, urban society dewellers certainly can't.

Dore

Re: treating lupus without tinctures

Hi Katharine,You ask about environmental impacts of paleo type diets. This issomething that has troubled my conscience for many months.The received wisdom is that it if the main calories in the diet areobtained from beef then 10x as much land is required than if same amountof calories were from grown crops (both grains and vegetables). Slightlyless for lamb as many sheep are grazed on land where crops wouldn't growanyway, pork is probably worse than beef as pigs are mainly raisedintensively i.e. no natural grazing, all food for them has to be grownand trucked in. NB dairy is just as bad as beef - milk cows still eatand have to have annual calf.Then add in the greenhouse gases - methane from ruminant belching andCO2 from trucks delivering food for animals and trucking them toslaughter etc.It becomes obvious that if we all revert to paleo diets, or even asignificant minority do, then somehow the global population needs tostart shrinking really fast. Or looking at it another way, for everyrich westerner that decides a paleo diet is the way to go, tens ofpeople in the developing world must undergo further starvation anddeath.The other problem I have with paleo diets is that we hardly have a paleolifestyle - perhaps if those who wish to have such a diet had to go andcatch their animal and kill it with a spear then butcher it with stonetools, collect firewood, start a fire by rubbing sticks or whatever thencook said animal they would be even healthier ;-)Just my 5 pennyworth of a pet subject!a

[Guest guest]

We are getting into a complex discussion that is now completely non-herbal. But I have to jump back in to disagree with those blanket statements. It is just not that simple.First, industrialisation of foods is bad for the environment, period. Grains included. Replace animal fats with vegetable fats for instance, and watch what is happening with palm trees in south east asia. Go visit some " canola farms " in the US. Also watch the deforestation created by the over-extension of mono-cultures (mostly grains) in certain countries. All pretty ugly.

Second, there are many types of nutritional programs that could fall under paleo. You could eat only meat, and yes that is problematic. But that is a caricature too. Mine is this : lots of fresh local veggetables and fruits, a small amount of animal meats emphasizing quality (local grass fed) rather than quantity, and some good fats from butter, eggs and the like. This is paleo too. In terms of proportions, animal fats are a small portion of the plates I recommend, most of the plate is composed of vegetables. But there is some meat, and no grains. 

Traditional tribes around the world could raise a small cattle for a whole village, with no impact on land and the environment. The real issue, to me, is going back to local foods, be it meat, grains, or whatever else. And we have lots of work to do to achieve this.

And third, my favorite. It relieves my clients, sometimes in a very dramatic way.I will stop the discussion here, and apologize to the moderators for going off track.

I agree with you entirely, the world cannot support its current population and certianly not on a hunter gather (paleo) diet even if it is more natural.  It is something only very few can do for themselves, urban society dewellers certainly can't.

 

Dore

[Guest guest]

Paleo diet seems very similar to Hay diet, ie. do not mix carbohydrates and proteins in the same meal.

So cutting out grains will put less strain on the digestive system, but longterm may cause other problems due to overconsumption of meat and animal products.

Any exclusion diet will stabilise the digestion for a while, but long term it may be better to improve digestive function so all food groups can be tolerated.

Just a late posting on an interesting topic..............

Best wishes,

Marilena.

To: ukherbal-list From: bernard.g.christophe@...Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 11:48:26 +0200Subject: Re: treating lupus without tinctures

Sorry if this is a bit off-track, this is non-herbal. But total removal of gluten for an extended period of time is something to try from the get-go (and removal of all cereals/grains as a matter of fact, cause other cereal proteins can be problematic in those autoimmune conditions).

For lupus specifically, I used to recommend a variation of the Seignalet diet, Seignalet being a french doctor who obtained quite amazing results in auto-immune diseases like Lupus. See the link below:http://paleozonenutrition.com/2011/04/01/dr-jean-seignalet-ancestral-diet-and-auto-immune-disease-trials/

I have evolved my nutritional protocol to now exclude all grains (including spelt, millet, etc - allowed under the seignalet diet), and to exclude all oils that can go rancid - canola, sunflower, etc. (which is allowed under the seignalet diet). Obviously low carb and close to zero sugar if patient open to this.

I have found that even though dairies can be problematic, they seem to be a lot less problematic than grains/gluten (not specifically for Lupus, but in general). I do removal/reintroduction of dairies anyway, cause those people need as little food toxins as possible, but I try to add cheese back if the person tolerates it, because those people need good stable fats, including butter from grass fed cows, coconut oil, raw-milk cheeses, free range eggs, etc.

[Guest guest]

Capsulate!Lorraine

 

Dear List

I have a new patient, a 55 year old woman with lupus diagnosed last December. Her main problems have been constant sharp pain in chest (4 years), pain migrating through limbs, swelling coming and going in hands, feet and sometimes legs, itchy skin and what she describes as 'popping off' of blood vessels when she overdoes things by walking too far or being stressed, severe headaches in occipital area, tiredness.

She's on a lot of medication inc Hydroxychloroquine, Atenolol (15-16 years) but I found her diastolic pressure high, ?Lofepramine (TCA), Ibuprofen, Cocodamol, Amitryptilene.

Depression since childhood inc suicidal thoughts last few years. severe headaches started in menopause 12 years ago.

2006-09 she worked in a drycleaning environment and wonders if this is a factor.

At 5 years old she had hepatitis A which involved a long hospital stay on a drip (in Russia where she's from). The tincture I gave her was:

Bosw serr

Card mar

Crat oxy

Rehm raw

Urt fol

Vacc

Total 115ml, 5ml tds

It relieved her chest pain effectively which she feels was due to improved circulation. But she didn't get on with it because she said it made her liver 'swells'. Boiling the alcohol off doesn't improve this sensation and she is adamant about this.

Have you any ideas? I'm wondering about medicinal mushrooms.

best wishes and thanks

Katharine (Locke)

-- Lorraine Hodgkinson AHG MRCHMHERBS AND HELPERS6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)

www.herbalmedicineuk.com