Guest guest Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Hi Liz I generally always give hypothyroid patients Withania. Which would fit with your assessment of adrenal stress. Sally Owen > up/ukherbal-list/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 HiDo you know what their T4 and TSH levels are?RegardsDr GascoigneMedical doctor, acupuncturist, herbalistClinics in Bath & Tetbury, UKTel: +44 (0) 79 88 05 92 01Also, Bandon, Co. Cork, IrelandTel: +353 (0) 87 9266234Website: www.drgascoigne.comOn 17 Jun 2012, at 10:33, Liz Lillicrap wrote: Hi Just wondering if people are successful in treating hypothyroidism. I have 2 new patients, one who has been on thyroxine for 2 years and is on maximum dosage, and the other just started on low dose of 50. The latter has been told by her GP to increase the dosage to 75 and she has resisted but is still feeling tired and unable to concentrate - she does not present as the average hypothyroid person - she is small, very slight, very athletic, no constipation, slightly exophthalmous really, always on the go - doesn't eat well and is always rushing around with her job (special needs teacher) and children who go to 2 different schools in different directions and attend different after school and evening activities. She has actually said that she would not want her life to be any different. I feel there is a lot of adrenal stress here and have put plenty of adrenal support in the mix - not sure exactly what as don't have notes with me. It's funny how patients tend to present with similar conditions at the same time - just had an enquiry from someone has been diagnosed hyperthyroid. Would be glad of any comments. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Hi Liz, I've used a supplement which I've mentioned previously on this list as it had virtually identical ingredients to my prescription. The prescription was in fact constructed largely with reference to archive posts on this list which seemed to fit the pattern. Yes Adrenal stress was a factor too.Supplement is called Thyroid response complete by Innate. Any enquiries about this offlist to me please:info@...LorraineLorraine Hodgkinson AHG MRCHMHERBS AND HELPERS6, Butts Fold, Cockermouth,Cumbria, CA13 9HY. UK.Tel: +44 (0) 1900 826392Mobile: 07761 489838 (O2)www.herbalmedicineuk.comOn 17 Jun 2012, at 10:33, Liz Lillicrap wrote: Hi Just wondering if people are successful in treating hypothyroidism. I have 2 new patients, one who has been on thyroxine for 2 years and is on maximum dosage, and the other just started on low dose of 50. The latter has been told by her GP to increase the dosage to 75 and she has resisted but is still feeling tired and unable to concentrate - she does not present as the average hypothyroid person - she is small, very slight, very athletic, no constipation, slightly exophthalmous really, always on the go - doesn't eat well and is always rushing around with her job (special needs teacher) and children who go to 2 different schools in different directions and attend different after school and evening activities. She has actually said that she would not want her life to be any different. I feel there is a lot of adrenal stress here and have put plenty of adrenal support in the mix - not sure exactly what as don't have notes with me. It's funny how patients tend to present with similar conditions at the same time - just had an enquiry from someone has been diagnosed hyperthyroid. Would be glad of any comments. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Thanks for your input re this patient. I feel that the alteration in her thyroid hormone levels is good and that she has no need to have her Thyroxine dosage increased. At present she is on 50 mcg Levothyroxine and the GP wishes her to go up to 75 mcg because she is still feeling tired. She has refused but is now having second thoughts because of the low energy. I've got adrenal tonics/adaptogens in her mix but really want her to try Withania again. She does so much - is up at 5, out running by 6 with no food, then back to a quick snatched breakfast, taking the children miles around North Devon to school, then she goes to teach special needs children, has half an hour for lunch which she is not able to eat sitting down, then after school takes the children to various thing, cooks a meal, after she has devoured vast quantities of bread, then doesn't eat much of the meal, then takes the children to evening activities, and feels that is is not right to be tired around 9.30 p.m.! When she actually verbalised all this she was a bit taken aback but then added that she wouldn't want it any other way - hence the adaptogens! The other hypothyroid case is doing well and feels she has turned the corner but she is a different type of person with a calmer yet busy lifestyle. The hyperthyroid enquiry is not sure about herbs because she is breastfeeding a 2 week old and obviously wants to continue for a while and is concerned about herbs and/or drugs transferring to the infant. I think Lycopus is contraindicated in breastfeeding though I haven't checked this. Thanks for all comments. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I have often found that people who are running around constantly like your patient find mildly relaxing/sedating herbs such as Withania, Scutellaria etc. to make them feel very tired, even at doses which others tolerate perfectly well during the day. I'm pretty sure it's because these people are running on adrenalin and further stressing their exhausted adrenal glands, and that the herbs are only making them aware of how tired their system really is. Thanks for your input re this patient. I feel that the alteration in her thyroid hormone levels is good and that she has no need to have her Thyroxine dosage increased. At present she is on 50 mcg Levothyroxine and the GP wishes her to go up to 75 mcg because she is still feeling tired. She has refused but is now having second thoughts because of the low energy. I've got adrenal tonics/adaptogens in her mix but really want her to try Withania again. She does so much - is up at 5, out running by 6 with no food, then back to a quick snatched breakfast, taking the children miles around North Devon to school, then she goes to teach special needs children, has half an hour for lunch which she is not able to eat sitting down, then after school takes the children to various thing, cooks a meal, after she has devoured vast quantities of bread, then doesn't eat much of the meal, then takes the children to evening activities, and feels that is is not right to be tired around 9.30 p.m.! When she actually verbalised all this she was a bit taken aback but then added that she wouldn't want it any other way - hence the adaptogens! The other hypothyroid case is doing well and feels she has turned the corner but she is a different type of person with a calmer yet busy lifestyle. The hyperthyroid enquiry is not sure about herbs because she is breastfeeding a 2 week old and obviously wants to continue for a while and is concerned about herbs and/or drugs transferring to the infant. I think Lycopus is contraindicated in breastfeeding though I haven't checked this. Thanks for all comments. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Hi ÃineI agree. I also treat people with acupuncture and patients such as this, running in empty, have to be scraped off the couch after the session as they start to connect with their real state of health.Regarding this specific case, there is no medical reason for the thyroxine to be increased. T4 is normal and further thyroxine will only exacerbate the problem as it will suppress thyroid function and subsequently adrenal function. GP's (and endocrinologists, I have to say) seem to have little or no understanding of basic endocrine physiology such as negative feedback loops. Hopefully the patient can choose the path of health rather than the path of further suppression,RegardsDr GascoigneMedical doctor, acupuncturist, herbalistClinics in Bath & Tetbury, UKTel: +44 (0) 79 88 05 92 01Also, Bandon, Co. Cork, IrelandTel: +353 (0) 87 9266234Website: www.drgascoigne.comOn 19 Jun 2012, at 21:27, Ãine Marie Reilly wrote: I have often found that people who are running around constantly like your patient find mildly relaxing/sedating herbs such as Withania, Scutellaria etc. to make them feel very tired, even at doses which others tolerate perfectly well during the day. I'm pretty sure it's because these people are running on adrenalin and further stressing their exhausted adrenal glands, and that the herbs are only making them aware of how tired their system really is. Thanks for your input re this patient. I feel that the alteration in her thyroid hormone levels is good and that she has no need to have her Thyroxine dosage increased. At present she is on 50 mcg Levothyroxine and the GP wishes her to go up to 75 mcg because she is still feeling tired. She has refused but is now having second thoughts because of the low energy. I've got adrenal tonics/adaptogens in her mix but really want her to try Withania again. She does so much - is up at 5, out running by 6 with no food, then back to a quick snatched breakfast, taking the children miles around North Devon to school, then she goes to teach special needs children, has half an hour for lunch which she is not able to eat sitting down, then after school takes the children to various thing, cooks a meal, after she has devoured vast quantities of bread, then doesn't eat much of the meal, then takes the children to evening activities, and feels that is is not right to be tired around 9.30 p.m.! When she actually verbalised all this she was a bit taken aback but then added that she wouldn't want it any other way - hence the adaptogens! The other hypothyroid case is doing well and feels she has turned the corner but she is a different type of person with a calmer yet busy lifestyle. The hyperthyroid enquiry is not sure about herbs because she is breastfeeding a 2 week old and obviously wants to continue for a while and is concerned about herbs and/or drugs transferring to the infant. I think Lycopus is contraindicated in breastfeeding though I haven't checked this. Thanks for all comments. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Hi Sally I use Schisandra a lot and it's really effective. Most people who come, have an element of endocrine imbalance secondary or causative of the presenting complaint and I give Schisandra in a lot of cases. Re the comment on Withania and Scutellaria - I have also found this with Chamomile - doesn't knock you out unless you need to be knocked out! Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Thanks Liz I do have phases of using Schisandra, I like that it is regarded as ok for long term use ;-) and that it tastes nice. One I never use, but am interested in (I bought a plant and it calls my attention ;-) is Rehmannia, do you use this? I think I find the fact that the traditional use bifurcates (?) ie cooked and raw having different indications. That's interesting re Chamomilla, I've suggested it to a friend as a nice digestive- says it makes her sleepy, hmmmmm. ;-) Sally > Hi Sally > > I use Schisandra a lot and it's really effective. Most people who > come, > have an element of endocrine imbalance secondary or causative of the > presenting complaint and I give Schisandra in a lot of cases. > > Re the comment on Withania and Scutellaria - I have also found this > with > Chamomile - doesn't knock you out unless you need to be knocked out! > > Liz > > > ------------------------------------ > > List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 > Oops....... I meant, > I think I find the fact that the traditional use bifurcates (?) ie > cooked and raw having > different indications, a little off putting. Which is silly. > > > > > Sally > > > > >> Hi Sally >> >> I use Schisandra a lot and it's really effective. Most people who >> come, >> have an element of endocrine imbalance secondary or causative of the >> presenting complaint and I give Schisandra in a lot of cases. >> >> Re the comment on Withania and Scutellaria - I have also found this >> with >> Chamomile - doesn't knock you out unless you need to be knocked out! >> >> Liz >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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