update

December 28, 2004

The vanity and ego of some of those in our medical community never

ceases to amaze me. What an outrage. I forgot who brought up this,

but someone had a great line recently so I don't want to take

credit. Anyways, it sounds like this guy is due for a 200mg Paxil

suppository. Any chance of getting your husband on here to read up

about what that might do to him. I will be happy to testify about

the dangers of going to fast. It nearly destroyed me and I am sure

there are others here who will back that up. Take care,

Casey

>

> So to sum it up, my husband's doctor sucks. My husband went today

> and the doctor (to sum it up simply) told him that these

withrdawal

> effects were not such, he is fine to go to work and should be on

the

> medicine period. He told him that he bets when he comes off of it

> all the way he will see that he needs to be on it. He's down to

> 10mg. And get this then he told him you know what just stop

taking

> it period. Suck it up and you'll see. Can you believe this. Now

my

> husband wont' listen to me and this is what he's going to do. He

> needs a new doctor like I said before. And can you believe its 75

> cent per page for a copy of your records.

December 28, 2004

Dear ,

You said:

<<So to sum it up, my husband's doctor sucks. My husband went today

and the doctor (to sum it up simply) told him that these withrdawal

effects were not such, he is fine to go to work and should be on the

medicine period. He told him that he bets when he comes off of it

all the way he will see that he needs to be on it. He's down to

10mg. And get this then he told him you know what just stop taking

it period. Suck it up and you'll see. Can you believe this. Now my

husband wont' listen to me and this is what he's going to do. He

needs a new doctor like I said before. And can you believe its 75

cent per page for a copy of your records.>>

** Glitter had a good idea. You can also go to

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/directory/search.asp

to find someone who is familiar with the problem.

Most physicians are aware of what the drug companies call a " discontinuation

syndrome " . The problem is that they listen to the drug co's suggestion on

how to 'slowly' reduce. it amounts to reducing it over two or three weeks.

If the drug company advises doing it over a longer period of time it is

tantamount to a confession of how difficult the drug is to discontinue.

Your best bet is to phone physicians and ask each if s/he supports

withdrawal from Paxil at the pace at which the patient is comfortable.

You're looking for a " yes " on this.

Regards,

December 28, 2004

<<That's MY line, and it's a 1000 mg suppository!!! LOL>>

Hey Glitter--I think you have an apprentice! (Go, Casey, Go!!!!)

December 29, 2004

Hey Glitter--I think you have an apprentice! (Go, Casey, Go!!!!)

That's fine, as long as he follows the rule of putting vaseline, then sand on the rubber glove!!!! LOL

"Blind Reason"

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

December 29, 2004

I could help to testify the damage done from coming off these drugs

too fast! I'm doing much better now, but still am on Lexapro, 10 mg

split into 6 pieces, that I take 1/6 of every 12 days. I hate the

fact that I still need to rely on it, but rest assured in the fact

that this is only temporary. Your husband can do it but slowly is

the key!

Missy

> >

> > So to sum it up, my husband's doctor sucks. My husband went

today

> > and the doctor (to sum it up simply) told him that these

> withrdawal

> > effects were not such, he is fine to go to work and should be on

> the

> > medicine period. He told him that he bets when he comes off of

it

> > all the way he will see that he needs to be on it. He's down to

> > 10mg. And get this then he told him you know what just stop

> taking

> > it period. Suck it up and you'll see. Can you believe this. Now

> my

> > husband wont' listen to me and this is what he's going to do.

He

> > needs a new doctor like I said before. And can you believe its

75

> > cent per page for a copy of your records.

December 30, 2004

---Hang in there Nate, my thoughts and love are with you every day.

A doctor told me recently it is easier to come off of coke and

heroin, nice eh.

Sending you heaps of love hun

SHelley

In Withdrawal_and_Recovery , Nate Pratt

<natethegreat098@y...> wrote:

>

> Hi in the midst of another not so good day. The

> scratchy throat and weakness is really bad today. I

> was reading up on someone who was either taking or

> discontinuing the drugs and were talking about how

> their bones felt like they had tuning forks running

> down them. I feel exactly like that. I'm doing my best

> to not worry much but it's hard especially being I got

> alot of other stressful situations I'm dealing with

> right now that makes it hard. My back pain hasn't been

> as bad and my neck isn't as weak today. My tongue

> feels ok. My face doesn't feel too bad today. Just my

> limbs are really bad. The twitching is mainly in my

> legs now. I get it other places but not like before. I

> also get a weird feeling in some places that it's

> vibrating or falling asleep. Anyone have feelings like

> that? My limbs especially fall asleep easy when

> sleeping. I really wonder if my weakness in my legs

> and arms is due to so much bed rest but man that's all

> I want to do. Still a bit depressed that everything is

> how it is right now and have certain situations

> popping up in my life I could have bounced on before

> but now I can't. I actually wait before I get out of

> my chair or bed ro wherever and plan the shortest way

> to get to where I need to b/c of my depleted strength.

> I've seen symptoms come and go especially the

> twitching and certain other things that let up every

> now and then. Will this weakness follow suit with the

> rest of the symptoms and let up? Or did I screw myself

> over cause the cold turkey? What's the big problem of

> coming off like that? I still struggle thinking I got

> something else wrong with me. But it's hard not to

> when you feel like this. I guess I gotta keep waiting

> this thing out and see how the acupuncture works when

> I get in. I need to get an actual dr's reccomendation

> to go there. Is that a crock of bull or what? That's

> Ohio law. The belledonna 30c helps a little with the

> throat but wears off fast and I've tried putting it in

> the water and same. It also seems like I try something

> for awhile and it helps with the symptoms but then

> starts to become ineffective. Do I need to up the

> dosage's or what? I also was wondering if the people

> on this board that were on effexor could let me know

> how long their recovery was. Also wondering if someone

> could tell me just how weak they were and for how

> long. Me, like I said I'm so weak I gotta plot the

> shortest routes to my next destinations and my legs

> shake and feel like they will buckle if I stand for

> longer than 5 minutes. I know exactly what someone

> meant when saying that it feels like you haven't eaten

> in years or something. Hmmmm......I just thought I'd

> mention this. It's been this way since I can remember.

> If I skipped a meal or went too long in a day without

> eating I'd shake.....like really bad......once I ate

> it went right away. Could this indicate something with

> my blood sugar level? Just wondering. I hear alot of

> talk about people saying like you get more and more

> good days and they last longer and longer but man it's

> like I get an okay day every once in awhile and that's

> all. Ummm well I don't really don't know what else to

> say. Later.

> Nate

>

> __________________________________________________

>

January 29, 2005

>

> Hi. I'm not doing too well. Pain is becoming unbearable. It's the

feeling of cuts and scrapes under my skin that I wrote about a

little bit ago. It's not on the surface, but just below it seems. It

stings bad. But just a few days ago, I was numb and felt like I'd

taken some kind of SSRI or pain reliever. I cycle back and forth

between those and several other symptoms. I'm overwhelmed by the

number of symptoms I have to face at any given time. And the way

they change so often is really driving me nuts. When I'm not feeling

pain, I'll usually feel the dereal./depers., feel like I'm losing

touch with reality. When in pain, however, my mind feels normal and

my thinking seems to be ok. I guess I can't win for losing.

***From Niki Rae:

That is exactly how I felt too. When I wasn't hurting, my brain was

on the fritz, and when I was feeling nutty, my pain levels were

down. I am not exactly sure what causes that, but it does get better

with time.***

>> Anyway, any idea why this is happening? Or what is happening? I

keep thinking about conditions like fibro, but I really don't know

what that actually feels like.

***From Niki Rae:

Fibro is a different kind of pain, but is like chinese water

torture, because nothing eases it. Right now I am dealing

with 'round the clock leg pain and pressure of varying degrees,

along with severe burning in my toes. Most of the doctors I have

known tend to treat it with SSRI's so you can imagine how much

relief I am NOT getting from my fibro. There are many tender points

that aggravate fibro, and accompany chronic myofascial pain

syndrome. My doctor believes most of my problem was brought on BY

THE DRUGS.***

>>Accompanying the stinging is deeper muscle pain. I'm sleeping

better, not feeling overstimulated. But that could

> change. These things just keep changing. This is the ways it's

been for me since shortly after discontinuing Effexor. I've been off

that for 10 months and off Doxepin for 8 weeks. I did feel a lot of

these symptoms while on the Doxepin. So I guess it's the Effexor?

The magnesium is helping to curb anxiety, but not the stinging. Is

there something that might help? Aspirin doesn't. And I won't take

acetomin. as it uses the 2d6 enzyme and I don't metabolize drugs

that use that pathway.

***From Niki Rae:

Yeah, I also can't take acetominophen for the same reason. And when

I have a headache or something, and someone offers me tylenol and I

tell them I can't take it, they ask me " why not? " ...And " how bad can

it be? " ...And my favorite line, " Oh, Niki calm down, one little pill

won't hurt you! " Yeah, right, I've heard that one before..>Right

before I nearly lost my life to Zoloft and Ativan..... Anyways,

about the only thing I have taken that has worked that didn't make

me sick was Bayer back and body. It IS aspirin, but it's the only

brand that works for me.

Hope this helps! Niki Rae

January 30, 2005

Hi Niki Rae.

I'm glad I'm not alone with these crazy cycles.

>>From Niki Rae: That is exactly how I felt too. When I wasn't hurting, my brain was on the fritz, and when I was feeling nutty, my pain levels were down. I am not exactly sure what causes that, but it does get better with time.My doctor believes most of my problem was brought on BY THE DRUGS

**Figures. I know I didn't have any of these problems BEFORE ever taking a drug.>>From Niki Rae:Yeah, I also can't take acetominophen for the same reason. And when I have a headache or something, and someone offers me tylenol and I tell them I can't take it, they ask me "why not?"...And "how bad can it be?"...And my favorite line, "Oh, Niki calm down, one little pill won't hurt you!" Yeah, right, I've heard that one before..>Right before I nearly lost my life to Zoloft and Ativan..... Anyways, about the only thing I have taken that has worked that didn't make me sick was Bayer back and body. It IS aspirin, but it's the only brand that works for me.Hope this helps! Niki Rae

** Yes! It helps a lot.

Thank you very much! It helps to know that what I'm going through isn't just me or some mystery ailment.

Tonya

__________________________________________________

February 16, 2005

Dear Tonya:

I can relate to everything you are venting about. I've been there, done that. I still obsess about the corruption that has permeated all life on this planet, but now I don't have the need to write nasty letters complaining to everyone about everything. Besides, I realized that I would probably be labeled a real nutcase, HAHAHAHA! And since one of my greatest fears is another psych ward and forced psychiatric drugging, I've stopped all but the most essential crusading. Don't even think that there's a drug that will fix what happened to you. the drugs caused it and the only way out is to give it time - you are a neonate in this process and it takes more than just one year to get your feet on the ground and start feeling even the slightest bit normal.

"Blind Reason"

a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue

Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's

Unsafe At Any Dose

February 16, 2005

Tonya, I am new here but I know that the things that you posted I have felt while on these drugs. I am overly sensitive to things, I over analyze everything and I do mean everything, I drive myself nuts thinking about little things that I would have just brushed off before. But now they are HUGE. Don't look for the perfect drug, because it doesn't exist. You will be okay though, everyone needs to vent. I have days where I just say "mom please come sit down" and I will go over everything with her that I think. Conspiracy theories and all. No, I don't think the govt. is out to get me but I think that they know more than they let on and they know what these drugs are capable of because someone is approving them.... so they are just allowing all of us to be put on this crap and go nuts. It makes me very angry and sad at the same time. I sometimes wonder how our country can feel so bad (or act like they do) about what's going on in other countries and how the dictators are treating people and then they are approving drugs to drug up a 5 year old. I take everything almost personal now. So I know how you feel. I have been asked the same list of questions, someone diagnosing me with an answer to a question. I find that odd. If I could just answer a question and know what was wrong all the time then life would be simple. But it's not. And the Psychics, honey they won't give you a clear answer. They can't. Please don't feel alone, there are plenty of people to talk to. People who actually care if you recover or not. So talk, vent when you need to, there is nothing wrong with that. That's why I started going to psychiatrists in the first place, just to talk. I am 5' 9" and had an eating disorder, mild but it was there and I weighed around 105 pounds. Wore a size 0, and the doctor I went to told me I could afford to lose a little more. It wouldn't hurt me, so I never went to her again. HAHA. Then the next one told me to put on weight immediately because I was gross, well that didn't help much either ... then i found this one lady who was nuttier than anyone I have met in 22 years of life and I saw her a couple of times, and then I found "Santa Clause" he seemed very sweet and kind and like he actually gave a rat's butt and he acted like he wanted to help. He is the one that put me on these meds. He also put my friend on about 6 or 7 at one time, mixing things that didn't need mixing. My friend was taking a very high dose of lithium and he just kept adding more after giving him that. I have to say that my friend was up only about 30 minutes a day. I call the doc Santa because he looks like Santa but also because he would give you anything you wanted. I could have gone in there and been a drug addict and told him I needed this and this and this and he would have given it to me. So I have quit going to him too, he just told me to go get stoned when I was feeling anxious or feeling like things were going wrong. Come to think of it, he was crazy too!! Amazing isn't it, they have the power to mess up our lives and they do nothing about their own. I say all of that Tonya to say "be careful where you seek help" some people just don't care. They live for people drug switching and needing help, we are their paycheck. Talk to people who care about other people and not just themselves. You will be better off. It's hard to find doctors that care. Luckily my regular doctor cares about me and she wanted me off the medication before I did.

Just reassure yourself that there are people who care, that you aren't alone and that everything you've felt or are feeling, someone has been there if not a lot of us. Take care and I wish you all the best. You are in my thoughts and prayers

le

February 16, 2005

Tonya, I am new here but I know that the things that you posted I have felt while on these drugs. I am overly sensitive to things, I over analyze everything and I do mean everything, I drive myself nuts thinking about little things that I would have just brushed off before. But now they are HUGE. Don't look for the perfect drug, because it doesn't exist. You will be okay though, everyone needs to vent. I have days where I just say "mom please come sit down" and I will go over everything with her that I think. Conspiracy theories and all. No, I don't think the govt. is out to get me but I think that they know more than they let on and they know what these drugs are capable of because someone is approving them.... so they are just allowing all of us to be put on this crap and go nuts. It makes me very angry and sad at the same time. I sometimes wonder how our country can feel so bad (or act like they do) about what's going on in other countries and how the dictators are treating people and then they are approving drugs to drug up a 5 year old. I take everything almost personal now. So I know how you feel. I have been asked the same list of questions, someone diagnosing me with an answer to a question. I find that odd. If I could just answer a question and know what was wrong all the time then life would be simple. But it's not. And the Psychics, honey they won't give you a clear answer. They can't. Please don't feel alone, there are plenty of people to talk to. People who actually care if you recover or not. So talk, vent when you need to, there is nothing wrong with that. That's why I started going to psychiatrists in the first place, just to talk. I am 5' 9" and had an eating disorder, mild but it was there and I weighed around 105 pounds. Wore a size 0, and the doctor I went to told me I could afford to lose a little more. It wouldn't hurt me, so I never went to her again. HAHA. Then the next one told me to put on weight immediately because I was gross, well that didn't help much either ... then i found this one lady who was nuttier than anyone I have met in 22 years of life and I saw her a couple of times, and then I found "Santa Clause" he seemed very sweet and kind and like he actually gave a rat's butt and he acted like he wanted to help. He is the one that put me on these meds. He also put my friend on about 6 or 7 at one time, mixing things that didn't need mixing. My friend was taking a very high dose of lithium and he just kept adding more after giving him that. I have to say that my friend was up only about 30 minutes a day. I call the doc Santa because he looks like Santa but also because he would give you anything you wanted. I could have gone in there and been a drug addict and told him I needed this and this and this and he would have given it to me. So I have quit going to him too, he just told me to go get stoned when I was feeling anxious or feeling like things were going wrong. Come to think of it, he was crazy too!! Amazing isn't it, they have the power to mess up our lives and they do nothing about their own. I say all of that Tonya to say "be careful where you seek help" some people just don't care. They live for people drug switching and needing help, we are their paycheck. Talk to people who care about other people and not just themselves. You will be better off. It's hard to find doctors that care. Luckily my regular doctor cares about me and she wanted me off the medication before I did.

Just reassure yourself that there are people who care, that you aren't alone and that everything you've felt or are feeling, someone has been there if not a lot of us. Take care and I wish you all the best. You are in my thoughts and prayers

le

February 16, 2005

Hi Tonya,

Sorry you're having such a hard time. You are in withdrawal. You

took a lot of toxic drugs and your body is trying to heal from the

damage they caused.

<<Where do I draw the line with my fears and obsessive thoughts like

this? As a side note, I wasn't really like this before the drugs. I'd

get mad at things like the overprescribing of antibiotics in children

causing treatment resistant bacteria. But I'd leave it at that, just

being mad and thinking what a stupid bunch of parents and doctors.

Then I'd go about my life. Now, I seem to dwell on these things

constantly. Is this a disorder of somesort and is there anything I

can do about it? >>

It isn't a disorder, it's from withdrawal. You're not mentally ill,

you're in withdrawal. You said it yourself--you weren't like this

before. This is caused by the drugs and it's time-limited.

You need to get some of the Bach Flower Essence White Chestnut. Take

3 drops under the tongue 4 times a day. This will help you with

these obsessive thoughts. You can take it more often as needed if

the thoughts are becoming problematic between doses.

I want to introduce a new thought for you. It's your new

mantra: " All of these symptoms are because of the drugs. I am in

recovery now. With time and patience, I will heal. All of these

symptoms are because of the drugs. "

<<I just fear that these drugs have left me with a new batch of

problems. I added up all the drugs I took in 2004 alone: 5

antidepressants, 2 benzos and Risperdal! >>

***They have left you with some problems, but you can heal from the

damage that was done. We have a healing program here that gets

results. It just takes time.

<<I went to 2 Reiki practioners, with tiny results. The second one

was also a shaman. I feel like I'm grasping at straws here. I hate to

sound like a downer, but I need to vent.>>

***It sounds like you're looking for a quick and easy answer. There

isn't one. These drugs were intended to be a quick and easy answer--

and look what they did to you. They have damaged your brain and your

nervous system. Brains and nervous systems take a long time to

heal. I know it's hard to be patient when you feel like this, but

patience will get you through.

Are you taking magnesium? It will help you feel calmer.

<<I've been having such temptations to try to find the " right drug "

so I can get some relief.>>

***How many drugs have you tried? I believe you listed 8 in 2004

alone. I don't think they work. You weren't like this before the

drugs. I don't think they helped you.

White Chestnut flower essence will help with the perseverative

thoughts. Magnesium and calcium will help you feel calmer. Total

Body Toddy and Mineral Toddy will help give your body what it needs

to heal. You've gotten started with a protocol that works. Remind

yourself of that.

Hang in there, take care of yourself with these things, and remind

yourself over and over that this is withdrawal. It will pass.

You're going to be okay.

Hugs,

Kim

February 16, 2005

-after the drugs you become more sensitive and depressed. thus, you notice

things more. depressed people are usually the most intune and socially

conscience people.

not that the government is out to get you. but, things dont necessarily change

right away because they are harmful. the people that produce and do things are

are harmful are going to try and do so as long as they can. look at the oil

industry.

jason

- In Withdrawal_and_Recovery , " k_denise1111 " <kdenise@r...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Tonya,

>

> Sorry you're having such a hard time. You are in withdrawal. You

> took a lot of toxic drugs and your body is trying to heal from the

> damage they caused.

>

> <<Where do I draw the line with my fears and obsessive thoughts like

> this? As a side note, I wasn't really like this before the drugs. I'd

> get mad at things like the overprescribing of antibiotics in children

> causing treatment resistant bacteria. But I'd leave it at that, just

> being mad and thinking what a stupid bunch of parents and doctors.

> Then I'd go about my life. Now, I seem to dwell on these things

> constantly. Is this a disorder of somesort and is there anything I

> can do about it? >>

>

> It isn't a disorder, it's from withdrawal. You're not mentally ill,

> you're in withdrawal. You said it yourself--you weren't like this

> before. This is caused by the drugs and it's time-limited.

>

> You need to get some of the Bach Flower Essence White Chestnut. Take

> 3 drops under the tongue 4 times a day. This will help you with

> these obsessive thoughts. You can take it more often as needed if

> the thoughts are becoming problematic between doses.

>

> I want to introduce a new thought for you. It's your new

> mantra: " All of these symptoms are because of the drugs. I am in

> recovery now. With time and patience, I will heal. All of these

> symptoms are because of the drugs. "

>

> <<I just fear that these drugs have left me with a new batch of

> problems. I added up all the drugs I took in 2004 alone: 5

> antidepressants, 2 benzos and Risperdal! >>

>

> ***They have left you with some problems, but you can heal from the

> damage that was done. We have a healing program here that gets

> results. It just takes time.

>

> <<I went to 2 Reiki practioners, with tiny results. The second one

> was also a shaman. I feel like I'm grasping at straws here. I hate to

> sound like a downer, but I need to vent.>>

>

> ***It sounds like you're looking for a quick and easy answer. There

> isn't one. These drugs were intended to be a quick and easy answer--

> and look what they did to you. They have damaged your brain and your

> nervous system. Brains and nervous systems take a long time to

> heal. I know it's hard to be patient when you feel like this, but

> patience will get you through.

>

> Are you taking magnesium? It will help you feel calmer.

>

> <<I've been having such temptations to try to find the " right drug "

> so I can get some relief.>>

>

> ***How many drugs have you tried? I believe you listed 8 in 2004

> alone. I don't think they work. You weren't like this before the

> drugs. I don't think they helped you.

>

> White Chestnut flower essence will help with the perseverative

> thoughts. Magnesium and calcium will help you feel calmer. Total

> Body Toddy and Mineral Toddy will help give your body what it needs

> to heal. You've gotten started with a protocol that works. Remind

> yourself of that.

>

> Hang in there, take care of yourself with these things, and remind

> yourself over and over that this is withdrawal. It will pass.

>

> You're going to be okay.

>

> Hugs,

> Kim

February 16, 2005

-after the drugs you become more sensitive and depressed. thus, you notice

things more. depressed people are usually the most intune and socially

conscience people.

not that the government is out to get you. but, things dont necessarily change

right away because they are harmful. the people that produce and do things are

are harmful are going to try and do so as long as they can. look at the oil

industry.

jason

- In Withdrawal_and_Recovery , " k_denise1111 " <kdenise@r...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Tonya,

>

> Sorry you're having such a hard time. You are in withdrawal. You

> took a lot of toxic drugs and your body is trying to heal from the

> damage they caused.

>

> <<Where do I draw the line with my fears and obsessive thoughts like

> this? As a side note, I wasn't really like this before the drugs. I'd

> get mad at things like the overprescribing of antibiotics in children

> causing treatment resistant bacteria. But I'd leave it at that, just

> being mad and thinking what a stupid bunch of parents and doctors.

> Then I'd go about my life. Now, I seem to dwell on these things

> constantly. Is this a disorder of somesort and is there anything I

> can do about it? >>

>

> It isn't a disorder, it's from withdrawal. You're not mentally ill,

> you're in withdrawal. You said it yourself--you weren't like this

> before. This is caused by the drugs and it's time-limited.

>

> You need to get some of the Bach Flower Essence White Chestnut. Take

> 3 drops under the tongue 4 times a day. This will help you with

> these obsessive thoughts. You can take it more often as needed if

> the thoughts are becoming problematic between doses.

>

> I want to introduce a new thought for you. It's your new

> mantra: " All of these symptoms are because of the drugs. I am in

> recovery now. With time and patience, I will heal. All of these

> symptoms are because of the drugs. "

>

> <<I just fear that these drugs have left me with a new batch of

> problems. I added up all the drugs I took in 2004 alone: 5

> antidepressants, 2 benzos and Risperdal! >>

>

> ***They have left you with some problems, but you can heal from the

> damage that was done. We have a healing program here that gets

> results. It just takes time.

>

> <<I went to 2 Reiki practioners, with tiny results. The second one

> was also a shaman. I feel like I'm grasping at straws here. I hate to

> sound like a downer, but I need to vent.>>

>

> ***It sounds like you're looking for a quick and easy answer. There

> isn't one. These drugs were intended to be a quick and easy answer--

> and look what they did to you. They have damaged your brain and your

> nervous system. Brains and nervous systems take a long time to

> heal. I know it's hard to be patient when you feel like this, but

> patience will get you through.

>

> Are you taking magnesium? It will help you feel calmer.

>

> <<I've been having such temptations to try to find the " right drug "

> so I can get some relief.>>

>

> ***How many drugs have you tried? I believe you listed 8 in 2004

> alone. I don't think they work. You weren't like this before the

> drugs. I don't think they helped you.

>

> White Chestnut flower essence will help with the perseverative

> thoughts. Magnesium and calcium will help you feel calmer. Total

> Body Toddy and Mineral Toddy will help give your body what it needs

> to heal. You've gotten started with a protocol that works. Remind

> yourself of that.

>

> Hang in there, take care of yourself with these things, and remind

> yourself over and over that this is withdrawal. It will pass.

>

> You're going to be okay.

>

> Hugs,

> Kim

February 16, 2005

Dear Tonya,

You said:

<<Just one question. This may have been asked and answered already, but why

is there fluoride, mercury and arsenic in the mineral toddy? I thought those

were harmful.>>

** Yes, you're right. It has been asked and answered. All these things

are trace minerals and are in the foods you eat (vegetables and fruits) and

the water you drink.

Micro or trace minerals are essential for good health if they come from

an organic source. In contrast, if they come from an inorganic or metallic

source, such as heavy metals, they are toxic. For example, iodine in an

organic form is necessary for health. Non-organic or metallic iodine in the

same amount can kill you.

There is a huge difference between an organic and an inorganic mineral.

Once a plant source utilizes minerals from the ground, they are digested,

making them ionic or electrical in nature. This makes it easier for the body

to assimilate and use the minerals at a cellular level. Subsequently, they

are not stored or deposited somewhere else in the body. Trace minerals in

their inorganic form are not easy for the body to use. They are stored in

the tissue and eventually large amounts build up and become extremely toxic.

Regards,

February 16, 2005

Dear Tonya,

You said:

<<Just one question. This may have been asked and answered already, but why

is there fluoride, mercury and arsenic in the mineral toddy? I thought those

were harmful.>>

** Yes, you're right. It has been asked and answered. All these things

are trace minerals and are in the foods you eat (vegetables and fruits) and

the water you drink.

Micro or trace minerals are essential for good health if they come from

an organic source. In contrast, if they come from an inorganic or metallic

source, such as heavy metals, they are toxic. For example, iodine in an

organic form is necessary for health. Non-organic or metallic iodine in the

same amount can kill you.

There is a huge difference between an organic and an inorganic mineral.

Once a plant source utilizes minerals from the ground, they are digested,

making them ionic or electrical in nature. This makes it easier for the body

to assimilate and use the minerals at a cellular level. Subsequently, they

are not stored or deposited somewhere else in the body. Trace minerals in

their inorganic form are not easy for the body to use. They are stored in

the tissue and eventually large amounts build up and become extremely toxic.

Regards,

February 16, 2005

lol... especially when the government IS out to get us...

Im not paranoid and I soooooo dont trust the government!

reminds me that old saying... just because Im paranoid doesnt mean someone doesnt really want to kill me?

smile

Update

Hi everyone.

Currently, my pain is very low but the dereailization/depersonalization is high and consumes my waking hours. I get so overwhelmed by everything: my own fears, past and present all at once, as well as all the corruption and lies all over the world. I just start thinking and analyzing (or overanalyzing if you will) about everything. I went to the ER last June during a really bad part of the withdrawals. It was the psych unit and I was asked a bunch of standard mental health questions, such as: do I think the government is out to get me. After answering "no", I casually asked if that was a question to determine paranoid schizophrenia. It was/is, and now I'm wondering why all schizophrenics would believe the government is out to get them. Because not everyone with depression or anxiety has the exact same symptoms. But what if those with schizo view the government as power hungry people who want to control the masses with propaganda and lies and mind altering drugs? If that's the truth, then wouldn't the govern. want to put a stop to that by labelling people with mental health problems and drugging them up? Or am I being paranoid now? Where do I draw the line with my fears and obsessive thoughts like this? As a side note, I wasn't really like this before the drugs. I'd get mad at things like the overprescribing of antibiotics in children causing treatment resistant bacteria. But I'd leave it at that, just being mad and thinking what a stupid bunch of parents and doctors. Then I'd go about my life. Now, I seem to dwell on these things constantly. Is this a disorder of somesort and is there anything I can do about it? I just fear that these drugs have left me with a new batch of problems. I added up all the drugs I took in 2004 alone: 5 antidepressants, 2 benzos and Risperdal! What did I do to myself? I'm going to see a new doctor on Sat. - a naturopath. I view this as my last hope. I got really crazy since stopping the Effexor. I talked with 6 psychics to see if I'll ever recover. Of course, I couldn't get straight answers that way. I went to 2 Reiki practioners, with tiny results. The second one was also a shaman. I feel like I'm grasping at straws here. I hate to sound like a downer, but I need to vent. I've been having such temptations to try to find the "right drug" so I can get some relief. I'm fighting that daily. I've been reading all about the aluminum in antiperspirants that can cause Alzheimer's (I switched to Tom's of Maine), the fluoride problem in toothpastes (switched to Tom's) and now I'm reading about mercury problems in dental amalgams. I have I don't know how many fillings in my mouth that can be causing problems in my brain. Now I feel like I need to rush out and find a dentist who can safely remove those fillings. I'm scared of just about everything now. Any thoughts or suggestions are more than welcome. And let me know if this post is too negative, and I won't send these kind anymore.

Thank you,

Tonya

__________________________________________________

February 16, 2005

lol... especially when the government IS out to get us...

Im not paranoid and I soooooo dont trust the government!

reminds me that old saying... just because Im paranoid doesnt mean someone doesnt really want to kill me?

smile

Update

Hi everyone.

Currently, my pain is very low but the dereailization/depersonalization is high and consumes my waking hours. I get so overwhelmed by everything: my own fears, past and present all at once, as well as all the corruption and lies all over the world. I just start thinking and analyzing (or overanalyzing if you will) about everything. I went to the ER last June during a really bad part of the withdrawals. It was the psych unit and I was asked a bunch of standard mental health questions, such as: do I think the government is out to get me. After answering "no", I casually asked if that was a question to determine paranoid schizophrenia. It was/is, and now I'm wondering why all schizophrenics would believe the government is out to get them. Because not everyone with depression or anxiety has the exact same symptoms. But what if those with schizo view the government as power hungry people who want to control the masses with propaganda and lies and mind altering drugs? If that's the truth, then wouldn't the govern. want to put a stop to that by labelling people with mental health problems and drugging them up? Or am I being paranoid now? Where do I draw the line with my fears and obsessive thoughts like this? As a side note, I wasn't really like this before the drugs. I'd get mad at things like the overprescribing of antibiotics in children causing treatment resistant bacteria. But I'd leave it at that, just being mad and thinking what a stupid bunch of parents and doctors. Then I'd go about my life. Now, I seem to dwell on these things constantly. Is this a disorder of somesort and is there anything I can do about it? I just fear that these drugs have left me with a new batch of problems. I added up all the drugs I took in 2004 alone: 5 antidepressants, 2 benzos and Risperdal! What did I do to myself? I'm going to see a new doctor on Sat. - a naturopath. I view this as my last hope. I got really crazy since stopping the Effexor. I talked with 6 psychics to see if I'll ever recover. Of course, I couldn't get straight answers that way. I went to 2 Reiki practioners, with tiny results. The second one was also a shaman. I feel like I'm grasping at straws here. I hate to sound like a downer, but I need to vent. I've been having such temptations to try to find the "right drug" so I can get some relief. I'm fighting that daily. I've been reading all about the aluminum in antiperspirants that can cause Alzheimer's (I switched to Tom's of Maine), the fluoride problem in toothpastes (switched to Tom's) and now I'm reading about mercury problems in dental amalgams. I have I don't know how many fillings in my mouth that can be causing problems in my brain. Now I feel like I need to rush out and find a dentist who can safely remove those fillings. I'm scared of just about everything now. Any thoughts or suggestions are more than welcome. And let me know if this post is too negative, and I won't send these kind anymore.

Thank you,

Tonya

__________________________________________________

February 16, 2005

I joined this list to ask about my son, but I thought you all might be interested in something that happened to me years ago in about 1983.

I had gone to the hospital because I had a rose thorn in my thumb that was infected and it looked like blood poisoning was setting in. be being an artist I could not take a chance on losing my hand, so I went to the emergency room.

while there I mentioned that I had been under a lot of stress lately, my rheumatoid arthritis was causing me a lot of pain and due to several major problems in my life I was a nervous wreck. since my hand was killing me from the infection and my body was racked in pain I innocently asked for some pain pills. the nurse came and injected me with some sort of drug.

I had thought it was pain medication or antibiotic for my hand so I cooperated but then shortly after that attendants came in and forcibly put a straight jacket on me. ( I assure you I was NOT unruly or giving them any reason to do that) this freaked me out of course, and as soon as they left the room I went out to the hall, called my husband to come let me out of it and I hauled ass out of there as fast as I could go! about half an hour later I began to suffer all sorts of strange things. hallucinations, creepy crawlies, thought animals and bugs were after me and all sorts of shit. I was like that in my bed for about 2 days! finally I came down off of whatever it was they stuck me with, but that was the worst 3 days of my life! why they did that I dont know but if that isnt enough to make a person leary of doctors and hospitals I dont know what is.

Re: Update

Dear Tonya:I can relate to everything you are venting about. I've been there, done that. I still obsess about the corruption that has permeated all life on this planet, but now I don't have the need to write nasty letters complaining to everyone about everything. Besides, I realized that I would probably be labeled a real nutcase, HAHAHAHA! And since one of my greatest fears is another psych ward and forced psychiatric drugging, I've stopped all but the most essential crusading. Don't even think that there's a drug that will fix what happened to you. the drugs caused it and the only way out is to give it time - you are a neonate in this process and it takes more than just one year to get your feet on the ground and start feeling even the slightest bit normal.

"Blind Reason" a novel of pharmaceutical intrigueThink your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It'sUnsafe At Any DoseTo subscribe to the off-topic list go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialWandR/

April 4, 2005

Every good wish and happiness to you and Dale.

Dave

update

Welcome to a new week everyone. You will be glad to hear that Dale finally broke down Friday evening and took 1/2 a Vicodin and has been taking them in halves ever since. He said they are taking the edge off the pain, and I could tell he was feeling better, he tinkered all weekend in his shop and didn't look in pain at the end of the day. So a small victory there. We will be demanding a referral to an oncologist on Friday.

Thank you all for your friendship. Peace on the journey,Juel captwildchild@...************************************If you are going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

April 5, 2005

Hi Aynslie,

I'm glad to hear you're feeling so much better! I've been just as

embarrassed over one day's desperation when the next day i turn out

to be fine. It's so easy to give way too much emotional credibility

to what are actually physical symptoms. Been there, done that--

believe me, you're not the only one. kicked me in the butt

a number of times (figuratively, of course). I'll always be grateful

for her ready boot.

Thanks for sharing all of this. It takes courage to be so open. And

I'm really glad things are looking up.

Hugs,

Kim

(co-moderator)

> One week after my emotional meltdown, I feel embarrassingly

balanced. I say " embarrassingly " because it's embarrassing to look

back to where I was last week and how I felt like my world was

crumbling under me--and realize that it didn't have to be that way. A

year ago I'd have just accepted the fact that I was being swallowed

up by Hell and that was the way it was going to be. Thanks for being

there to put up with my " pity party " and thanks for refusing to be

enablers--and that goes to everyone else on this list who wrote with

either words of encouragement or empathy. Perhaps there are more

meltdowns in my future, but it's sure nice to have my head above

water high enough to get a balanced, realistic view of my life.

>

> Also, do you know what happened to me toward the end of last week?

A feeling emerged from deep inside of me. It came out like a mole

digging itself out of an underground tunnel, with little clawed feet

scraping away the dirt, squirming its way to the surface, and

emerging whole into the light of day. I actually FELT love. I haven't

felt that emotion in years. My mind has known that I loved--my

family, my friends, etc., but the actual feeling hasn't been there.

But now it is! It's just there, and boy does it feel GOOD! : )

April 5, 2005