DM Dogs question

[Guest guest]

i have a question about presentation of DM dogs. I have many dogs referred to

me with a rDVM dx of DM. (most have not had MRI as clients feel that due to age

and concern about if there is disc compression disorder and do not want to do

surgery) it seems the numbers dx with this disease has increased significantly

recently. The typical differential is that the dogs have had X-ray showing no

abnormalities in the spine, ataxic gait in the rear limbs, (severe to moderate)

and no pain on palpation of the vertebrae.

I see about 15 dogs per week with this dx, and each presents differently. i

have noticed that if i were to compare dogs with X-ray showing spinal

degeneration vs those with no degeneration (all with dx of DM) that gaits are

quite different. Typically those with X-ray with degen changes they appear

worse after heavy exercise, and are dogs that have a tendency to be more ataxic

following jumping, and moderate body movements (and owners note pain on certain

movements). Also of note these dogs Dx of DM range from German shepards, to

golden retrievers and boxers. Those that have no degen changes on X-ray, have

ataxia in both hind limbs, and 'appear' to have a more criss crossing of hind

limbs. it appears to be higher up (at the hip) as opposed to lower below the

stifle (more proprioceptive deficit and turning of paw to dorsum)

what i am curious about with those dealing with dx of DM.....does anyone notice

any key gait abnormalities (i.e. minor dragging of one rear limb, crossing of

both hind limbs, or just weakness that presents as neurological deficits) that

seems to be more DM related as compared to those that may have some sort of

senior dog neuropathy (my terminology)

the reason for the question is if anyone out there has any specific barometer

when visual observation is done with regards to DM dx. Does anyone have any

visual gait abnormalities that they see that 'appears' typical for a true DM

dog?

From my experience dealing with true DM dogs, there appears to be a common tread

of progression of the disease ( one leg proprioceptive deficits, then the other,

following with almost complete loss of the hind limbs, then months later it

appears to reach one forelimb then the other (depending on owner deciding on

euthanasia)

comments and visual observations would be greatly appreciated. i understand

this is not true scientific evidence, however, due to the number of clients i

see who are unwilling for whatever reason, to do an MRI, does anyone have a

visual observation of a DM dog compared to another dx.?

tania costa

CCRP, VT, CAAP, CMT

[Guest guest]

Generally for clients that are not wanting to pursue MRI for whatever reason I strongly recommend the test for DM to increase index of suspicision because if the dog has characteristic clinical signs but does not have the autosomal resessive gene, it is not DM. That is not to say that if it is autosomal resessive that it definatively IS DM since at risk dogs can certainly get other disease conditions, however it would give me more comfort in my ability to give the owner a prognosis.

DM Dogs question

i have a question about presentation of DM dogs. I have many dogs referred to me with a rDVM dx of DM. (most have not had MRI as clients feel that due to age and concern about if there is disc compression disorder and do not want to do surgery) it seems the numbers dx with this disease has increased significantly recently. The typical differential is that the dogs have had X-ray showing no abnormalities in the spine, ataxic gait in the rear limbs, (severe to moderate) and no pain on palpation of the vertebrae. I see about 15 dogs per week with this dx, and each presents differently. i have noticed that if i were to compare dogs with X-ray showing spinal degeneration vs those with no degeneration (all with dx of DM) that gaits are quite different. Typically those with X-ray with degen changes they appear worse after heavy exercise, and are dogs that have a tendency to be more ataxic following jumping, and moderate body movements (and owners note pain on certain movements). Also of note these dogs Dx of DM range from German shepards, to golden retrievers and boxers. Those that have no degen changes on X-ray, have ataxia in both hind limbs, and 'appear' to have a more criss crossing of hind limbs. it appears to be higher up (at the hip) as opposed to lower below the stifle (more proprioceptive deficit and turning of paw to dorsum) what i am curious about with those dealing with dx of DM.....does anyone notice any key gait abnormalities (i.e. minor dragging of one rear limb, crossing of both hind limbs, or just weakness that presents as neurological deficits) that seems to be more DM related as compared to those that may have some sort of senior dog neuropathy (my terminology) the reason for the question is if anyone out there has any specific barometer when visual observation is done with regards to DM dx. Does anyone have any visual gait abnormalities that they see that 'appears' typical for a true DM dog? From my experience dealing with true DM dogs, there appears to be a common tread of progression of the disease ( one leg proprioceptive deficits, then the other, following with almost complete loss of the hind limbs, then months later it appears to reach one forelimb then the other (depending on owner deciding on euthanasia)comments and visual observations would be greatly appreciated. i understand this is not true scientific evidence, however, due to the number of clients i see who are unwilling for whatever reason, to do an MRI, does anyone have a visual observation of a DM dog compared to another dx.?tania costaCCRP, VT, CAAP, CMT

[Guest guest]

I would agree that the DNA test for DM is the way to go. It is available through

OFA or the University of Missouri diagnostic lab. The price is reasonable and

only requires small sample of whole blood. I agree with your assessment, Tania,

of DM as a slow progressive disease; rear foot shuffling, dragging,

mis-stepping,stumbling progressing to in-coordination, crossing and over months

front leg symptoms. Likely, any sudden onset cases or rapidly deteriorating

cases are other problems- type 2 discs, cauda equina, spinal cord tumor...

>

> Generally for clients that are not wanting to pursue MRI for whatever reason I

strongly recommend the test for DM to increase index of suspicision because if

the dog has characteristic clinical signs but does not have the autosomal

resessive gene, it is not DM. That is not to say that if it is autosomal

resessive that it definatively IS DM since at risk dogs can certainly get other

disease conditions, however it would give me more comfort in my ability to give

the owner a prognosis.

>

> DM Dogs question

>

>

>

> i have a question about presentation of DM dogs. I have many dogs referred

to me with a rDVM dx of DM. (most have not had MRI as clients feel that due to

age and concern about if there is disc compression disorder and do not want to

do surgery) it seems the numbers dx with this disease has increased

significantly recently. The typical differential is that the dogs have had X-ray

showing no abnormalities in the spine, ataxic gait in the rear limbs, (severe to

moderate) and no pain on palpation of the vertebrae.

>

> I see about 15 dogs per week with this dx, and each presents differently. i

have noticed that if i were to compare dogs with X-ray showing spinal

degeneration vs those with no degeneration (all with dx of DM) that gaits are

quite different. Typically those with X-ray with degen changes they appear worse

after heavy exercise, and are dogs that have a tendency to be more ataxic

following jumping, and moderate body movements (and owners note pain on certain

movements). Also of note these dogs Dx of DM range from German shepards, to

golden retrievers and boxers. Those that have no degen changes on X-ray, have

ataxia in both hind limbs, and 'appear' to have a more criss crossing of hind

limbs. it appears to be higher up (at the hip) as opposed to lower below the

stifle (more proprioceptive deficit and turning of paw to dorsum)

>

> what i am curious about with those dealing with dx of DM.....does anyone

notice any key gait abnormalities (i.e. minor dragging of one rear limb,

crossing of both hind limbs, or just weakness that presents as neurological

deficits) that seems to be more DM related as compared to those that may have

some sort of senior dog neuropathy (my terminology)

>

> the reason for the question is if anyone out there has any specific

barometer when visual observation is done with regards to DM dx. Does anyone

have any visual gait abnormalities that they see that 'appears' typical for a

true DM dog?

>

> From my experience dealing with true DM dogs, there appears to be a common

tread of progression of the disease ( one leg proprioceptive deficits, then the

other, following with almost complete loss of the hind limbs, then months later

it appears to reach one forelimb then the other (depending on owner deciding on

euthanasia)

>

> comments and visual observations would be greatly appreciated. i understand

this is not true scientific evidence, however, due to the number of clients i

see who are unwilling for whatever reason, to do an MRI, does anyone have a

visual observation of a DM dog compared to another dx.?

>

> tania costa

> CCRP, VT, CAAP, CMT

>