FCE

[Guest guest]

Anyone using laser for FCE? Young dog with presumptive diagnosis of FCE. Started

with no motor on L hind and some motor on R hind, but unable to bear weight,

stand or walk. Today, the dog is able to bear weight on the R hind and knuckle

the L hind. Some motor is now present on the L rear (slightly noticeable). Was

wondering if anyone is using laser to help these dogs recover faster?

Thanks,

Christi , DVM, CCRP

Mobile, AL

[Guest guest]

Indeed!The presumptive THEORY would be that you are utilizing it to have a circulatory effect via angiogenesis / neovascularization. As well, there is the potential for nerve/spinal cord regeneration... but you have to laser the living daylights out of the area b/c of the attenuation of the light through all of the tissues. Byrnes et al 2005 provides some calculations (my notes are as follows):

Light, delivered transcutaneously, improves recovery after injury

and suggests that light will be a useful treatment for human spinal cord

injuries.

Byrnes

KR, Waynant RW, Ilev IK et al.

(2005) ‘Light promotes regeneration and functional recovery and

alters the immune response after spinal cord injury.’ Lasers Surg Med. 36:

171 – 185.

This study used a 810nm, 150mW laser and provided a daily dose of

1589 J/cm2 by administering the light for 2997 seconds/day. Treatment started 15 minutes after

surgery and continued for 14 days. Study dorsal hemisection.Results: (speculated 6% power penetration to the spinal cord

depth). Significantly increased

axonal number and distance regrowth.

Suppressed immune cell activation and cytokine/chemokine expression.Return of some aspects of function to baseline levels.

I cannot sit there for 2997 seconds however! So I utilize substantially less than that, but more than typical dosaging... but perhaps 10-20J/cm2 using a multiprobe and covering the area several times (but it depends upon your laser....).Hope this helps!LaurieLaurie Edge-, BScPT, MAnimSt(Animal Physio), CAFCI, CCRTCo-Owner,The Canine Fitness Centre Ltd.Calgary, AB, Canadawww.caninefitness.comCEO,Four Leg Rehab Inc.www.fourleg.comPast-Chair,The Animal Rehab DivisionThe Canadian Physiotherapy Associationwww.animalptcanada.comInstructor,The Canine Rehab Institutewww.caninerehabinstitute.comGuest Lecturer,Faculty of Veterinary MedicineThe University of Calgarywww.vet.ucalgary.caVice-President,International Association of Physical Therapists in Animal PracticeWorld Confederation for Physical Therapywww.wcpt.org

Anyone using laser for FCE? Young dog with presumptive diagnosis of FCE. Started with no motor on L hind and some motor on R hind, but unable to bear weight, stand or walk. Today, the dog is able to bear weight on the R hind and knuckle the L hind. Some motor is now present on the L rear (slightly noticeable). Was wondering if anyone is using laser to help these dogs recover faster?

Thanks,

Christi , DVM, CCRP

Mobile, AL

[Guest guest]

I really like using laser for these cases. I am currently working with a 3 year old lab-4 weeks out FCE/Type III disc. This dog had an MRI that showed spinal cord trauma/swelling but no disc material present. Initial paresis of hind limbs and incontinence (urine and fecal). I started out with twice weekly acupuncture/EAP and Class IV therapeutic laser and a lot of PNF stuff at home-brushing, vibration, tickling toes etc. After a few treatments I added UWTM to the regimen.

She has responded very well and is now continent, and able to walk around the block with minimal assistance. Still some CP deficits, but the owners are very pleased. I continue to work with her in the UWTM and still some acupuncture/laser as needed. The owner continues to work with her at home with proprioceptive and strengthening exercises.

Anyone using laser for FCE? Young dog with presumptive diagnosis of FCE. Started with no motor on L hind and some motor on R hind, but unable to bear weight, stand or walk. Today, the dog is able to bear weight on the R hind and knuckle the L hind. Some motor is now present on the L rear (slightly noticeable). Was wondering if anyone is using laser to help these dogs recover faster?Thanks,Christi , DVM, CCRPMobile, AL

[Guest guest]

Joyce

Can you tell us how many joules per cm sq you normally deliver per session for your fce patients?

Thanks

 

I really like using laser for these cases. I am currently working with a 3 year old lab-4 weeks out FCE/Type III disc. This dog had an MRI that showed spinal cord trauma/swelling but no disc material present. Initial paresis of hind limbs and incontinence (urine and fecal). I started out with twice weekly acupuncture/EAP and Class IV therapeutic laser and a lot of PNF stuff at home-brushing, vibration, tickling toes etc.  After a few treatments I added UWTM to the regimen.

 

She has responded very well and is now continent, and able to walk around the block with minimal assistance.  Still some CP deficits, but the owners are very pleased.  I continue to work with her in the UWTM and still some acupuncture/laser as needed. The owner continues to work with her at home with proprioceptive and strengthening exercises.

 

Anyone using laser for FCE? Young dog with presumptive diagnosis of FCE. Started with no motor on L hind and some motor on R hind, but unable to bear weight, stand or walk. Today, the dog is able to bear weight on the R hind and knuckle the L hind. Some motor is now present on the L rear (slightly noticeable). Was wondering if anyone is using laser to help these dogs recover faster?

Thanks,Christi , DVM, CCRPMobile, AL

[Guest guest]

I use 8-10 joules/cm sq on these guys.

Joyce Can you tell us how many joules per cm sq you normally deliver per session for your fce patients?Thanks

I really like using laser for these cases. I am currently working with a 3 year old lab-4 weeks out FCE/Type III disc. This dog had an MRI that showed spinal cord trauma/swelling but no disc material present. Initial paresis of hind limbs and incontinence (urine and fecal). I started out with twice weekly acupuncture/EAP and Class IV therapeutic laser and a lot of PNF stuff at home-brushing, vibration, tickling toes etc. After a few treatments I added UWTM to the regimen.

She has responded very well and is now continent, and able to walk around the block with minimal assistance. Still some CP deficits, but the owners are very pleased. I continue to work with her in the UWTM and still some acupuncture/laser as needed. The owner continues to work with her at home with proprioceptive and strengthening exercises.

Anyone using laser for FCE? Young dog with presumptive diagnosis of FCE. Started with no motor on L hind and some motor on R hind, but unable to bear weight, stand or walk. Today, the dog is able to bear weight on the R hind and knuckle the L hind. Some motor is now present on the L rear (slightly noticeable). Was wondering if anyone is using laser to help these dogs recover faster?Thanks,Christi , DVM, CCRPMobile, AL

[Guest guest]

, I just looked at my laser to see the total joules. For this choc. lab, 53 lbs, I used 1500 J (total) focused around the area where we knew (via MRI) the insult occurred.

Joyce Can you tell us how many joules per cm sq you normally deliver per session for your fce patients?Thanks

I really like using laser for these cases. I am currently working with a 3 year old lab-4 weeks out FCE/Type III disc. This dog had an MRI that showed spinal cord trauma/swelling but no disc material present. Initial paresis of hind limbs and incontinence (urine and fecal). I started out with twice weekly acupuncture/EAP and Class IV therapeutic laser and a lot of PNF stuff at home-brushing, vibration, tickling toes etc. After a few treatments I added UWTM to the regimen.

She has responded very well and is now continent, and able to walk around the block with minimal assistance. Still some CP deficits, but the owners are very pleased. I continue to work with her in the UWTM and still some acupuncture/laser as needed. The owner continues to work with her at home with proprioceptive and strengthening exercises.

Anyone using laser for FCE? Young dog with presumptive diagnosis of FCE. Started with no motor on L hind and some motor on R hind, but unable to bear weight, stand or walk. Today, the dog is able to bear weight on the R hind and knuckle the L hind. Some motor is now present on the L rear (slightly noticeable). Was wondering if anyone is using laser to help these dogs recover faster?Thanks,Christi , DVM, CCRPMobile, AL

[Guest guest]

Thanks Joyce

 

, I just looked at my laser to see the total joules. For this choc. lab, 53 lbs, I used 1500 J (total)  focused around the area where we knew (via MRI)  the insult occurred.

 

Joyce Can you tell us how many joules per cm sq you normally deliver per session for your fce patients?Thanks

 

I really like using laser for these cases. I am currently working with a 3 year old lab-4 weeks out FCE/Type III disc. This dog had an MRI that showed spinal cord trauma/swelling but no disc material present. Initial paresis of hind limbs and incontinence (urine and fecal). I started out with twice weekly acupuncture/EAP and Class IV therapeutic laser and a lot of PNF stuff at home-brushing, vibration, tickling toes etc.  After a few treatments I added UWTM to the regimen.

 

She has responded very well and is now continent, and able to walk around the block with minimal assistance.  Still some CP deficits, but the owners are very pleased.  I continue to work with her in the UWTM and still some acupuncture/laser as needed. The owner continues to work with her at home with proprioceptive and strengthening exercises.

 

Anyone using laser for FCE? Young dog with presumptive diagnosis of FCE. Started with no motor on L hind and some motor on R hind, but unable to bear weight, stand or walk. Today, the dog is able to bear weight on the R hind and knuckle the L hind. Some motor is now present on the L rear (slightly noticeable). Was wondering if anyone is using laser to help these dogs recover faster?

Thanks,Christi , DVM, CCRPMobile, AL

[Guest guest]

Treat through the spine and area of lesion with Alpha-Stim. I have a 80# dog bilaterally paralyzed from this. Into week 6, walking (at times wanting to run) with minimal support. I have a training seminar for Alpha-Stim coming up September 28-29th in Missouri. Ava Frick, DVM, CAC From: VetRehab [mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf Of ChristieCSent: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:06 PMTo: VetRehab Subject: Re: FCE Thanks Pam. I saw her for the first time about 5 days after the initial insult. I have been seeing her daily for the last week and see some improvement. I'll add some of the stimulation that you are suggesting to her feet, but have already been doing the rest. I just tend to be impatient and want to see her being able to move that left leg and walking on her right within the next week. Thanks for the help.Christie Carlo, DVM ,CCRT> > > Hello - I'm looking for additional suggestions and ideas. I have started working with a MRI confirmed FCE at L3-4 in a 45# 7 yr old Border Collie. She is bilaterally paretic, however, the right leg appears to be improving whereas the left leg is showing little movement. In the UWTM she will move her right leg forward and place her foot appropriately, but I continue to do pattern walking with the left foot. I have been doing E-stim on bilateral quads/hams and gluts for 10 min each. I use 120Hz, 300mcs, 3s ramp, 15s on, 15s off, and a setting of 3-4. I am able to get a tetanic muscle contraction of the hams only and not consistently. Ideas? I have started doing acupuncture btw the toes of both rear feet daily. For exercises I have been doing assisted standing, assisted sit-to-stands, and standing over a peanut. She hates withdrawal flexor reflex. I have been seeing her for 1 week on a daily basis. Thank you for any other ideas!> > > > Christie Carlo, DVM, CCRT> > > >>