Re: Conservative Partial CCL rupture.

[Guest guest]

I would tell the owner that surgery provides the best most predictable outcome in a dog this size and active, provided the surgeon knows what they are doingdogs are not people, and the mechanics of the stifle are different

Freedman VMD CCRTVIN consulting editor orthopedics and soft tissue surgery

 

Hi all,

Just hoping for some advice. I have a client with an 8 year old, active, large Labrador with a partial RCCL and " mild " bilateral hip dysplasia who would prefer not to operate on this dog. I have not seen the dog yet, but was wondering if others are having success treating the partial CCL conservatively in a dog this size ( I believe he is 40kg!). I am relatively new to rehab and have not attempted conservative tx on a cruciae yet. Is there harm in trying rehab in a dog this size? The RDVM is very skeptical about rehab in lieu of Sx. The owner is a nurse and has had knee Sx and lots of rehab herself. Thanks for your advice!

Scata DVM, CCRT

-- Regards,

[Guest guest]

This topic has been discussed many times and I am not sure if you are able to go back and research previous topic discussions through the group or not. We have successfully rehabilitated many active dogs of that size without surgery. In previous posts we mentioned that the ones that do not rehab successfully are ones that have a meniscal tear. We have found that the painful meniscus tear is what keeps them from wanting to fully weight bear, not the torn CCL. If the dog is positive for a meniscal click we are fortunate to have a local surgeon who will do arthroscopy (with no stabilization procedure), clean up the meniscus and refer back to rehab. Most of the dogs that have gone through our (hopefully soon to be published study) have come in a couple days after surgery walking with 60-75% normal weight bearing. Aside from the great outcomes we have seen, these dogs haven't torn the other side!!!!! A partially torn CCL can lay down scar and provide good stability. So far we have found this not only successful but with less risk due to being less invasive, which is what we are finding owners wanting more and more.Amy Kramer, PT, DPT, CCRTCalifornia Animal Rehabilitationwww.CalAnimalRehab.com

Hi all,

Just hoping for some advice. I have a client with an 8 year old, active, large Labrador with a partial RCCL and "mild" bilateral hip dysplasia who would prefer not to operate on this dog. I have not seen the dog yet, but was wondering if others are having success treating the partial CCL conservatively in a dog this size ( I believe he is 40kg!). I am relatively new to rehab and have not attempted conservative tx on a cruciae yet. Is there harm in trying rehab in a dog this size? The RDVM is very skeptical about rehab in lieu of Sx. The owner is a nurse and has had knee Sx and lots of rehab herself. Thanks for your advice!

Scata DVM, CCRT

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy! I hope you don’t mind, but I’d like to jump in here and ask you how long your patients have been monitored after their successful rehabilitation? Can you say that they have remained sound for 1 year? 2 years? Longer? And have these dogs gone back to a “normally†active lifestyle? Any performance athletes that have gone back to performing? Cheers.Glynis Glynis Newman DVM, certAVCA, CCRTHillside Veterinary Hospital1700 Kings Road, BC From: VetRehab [mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf Of Amy KramerSent: July-10-12 7:22 PMTo: VetRehab Subject: Re: Conservative Partial CCL rupture. This topic has been discussed many times and I am not sure if you are able to go back and research previous topic discussions through the group or not. We have successfully rehabilitated many active dogs of that size without surgery. In previous posts we mentioned that the ones that do not rehab successfully are ones that have a meniscal tear. We have found that the painful meniscus tear is what keeps them from wanting to fully weight bear, not the torn CCL. If the dog is positive for a meniscal click we are fortunate to have a local surgeon who will do arthroscopy (with no stabilization procedure), clean up the meniscus and refer back to rehab. Most of the dogs that have gone through our (hopefully soon to be published study) have come in a couple days after surgery walking with 60-75% normal weight bearing. Aside from the great outcomes we have seen, these dogs haven't torn the other side!!!!! A partially torn CCL can lay do wn scar and provide good stability. So far we have found this not only successful but with less risk due to being less invasive, which is what we are finding owners wanting more and more.Amy Kramer, PT, DPT, CCRTCalifornia Animal Rehabilitationwww.CalAnimalRehab.com Hi all,Just hoping for some advice. I have a client with an 8 year old, active, large Labrador with a partial RCCL and " mild " bilateral hip dysplasia who would prefer not to operate on this dog. I have not seen the dog yet, but was wondering if others are having success treating the partial CCL conservatively in a dog this size ( I believe he is 40kg!). I am relatively new to rehab and have not attempted conservative tx on a cruciae yet. Is there harm in trying rehab in a dog this size? The RDVM is very skeptical about rehab in lieu of Sx. The owner is a nurse and has had knee Sx and lots of rehab herself. Thanks for your advice! Scata DVM, CCRT

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy,

which surgeon do you use?

I have not find anybody yet who would be willing to do this in Orange County.

Caroline

--

Caroline Goulard DVM

CCRT Certified in Canine Rehabilitation Therapy

CVA Certified in Veterinary Acupuncture

Paws On The Go

Housecalls for Animal Physical Rehabilitation and Wellness Care

>

> > Hi all,

> > Just hoping for some advice. I have a client with an 8 year old, active,

large Labrador with a partial RCCL and " mild " bilateral hip dysplasia who would

prefer not to operate on this dog. I have not seen the dog yet, but was

wondering if others are having success treating the partial CCL conservatively

in a dog this size ( I believe he is 40kg!). I am relatively new to rehab and

have not attempted conservative tx on a cruciae yet. Is there harm in trying

rehab in a dog this size? The RDVM is very skeptical about rehab in lieu of Sx.

The owner is a nurse and has had knee Sx and lots of rehab herself. Thanks for

your advice!

> >

> > Scata DVM, CCRT

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

We have followed these 24 dogs for up to 3 years now and we have had only 3 rupture the other side which is less than 15%. We have one that is an active agility dog currently and has not ruptured te other side.Amy Kramer, PT, DPT, CCRTCalifornia Animal Rehabilitation

Hi Amy! I hope you don’t mind, but I’d like to jump in here and ask you how long your patients have been monitored after their successful rehabilitation? Can you say that they have remained sound for 1 year? 2 years? Longer? And have these dogs gone back to a “normally†active lifestyle? Any performance athletes that have gone back to performing? Cheers.Glynis Glynis Newman DVM, certAVCA, CCRTHillside Veterinary Hospital1700 Kings Road, BC From: VetRehab [mailto:VetRehab ] On Behalf Of Amy KramerSent: July-10-12 7:22 PMTo: VetRehab Subject: Re: Conservative Partial CCL rupture. This topic has been discussed many times and I am not sure if you are able to go back and research previous topic discussions through the group or not. We have successfully rehabilitated many active dogs of that size without surgery. In previous posts we mentioned that the ones that do not rehab successfully are ones that have a meniscal tear. We have found that the painful meniscus tear is what keeps them from wanting to fully weight bear, not the torn CCL. If the dog is positive for a meniscal click we are fortunate to have a local surgeon who will do arthroscopy (with no stabilization procedure), clean up the meniscus and refer back to rehab. Most of the dogs that have gone through our (hopefully soon to be published study) have come in a couple days after surgery walking with 60-75% normal weight bearing. Aside from the great outcomes we have seen, these dogs haven't torn the other side!!!!! A partially torn CCL can lay do wn scar and provide good stability. So far we have found this not only successful but with less risk due to being less invasive, which is what we are finding owners wanting more and more.Amy Kramer, PT, DPT, CCRTCalifornia Animal Rehabilitationwww.CalAnimalRehab.com Hi all,Just hoping for some advice. I have a client with an 8 year old, active, large Labrador with a partial RCCL and "mild" bilateral hip dysplasia who would prefer not to operate on this dog. I have not seen the dog yet, but was wondering if others are having success treating the partial CCL conservatively in a dog this size ( I believe he is 40kg!). I am relatively new to rehab and have not attempted conservative tx on a cruciae yet. Is there harm in trying rehab in a dog this size? The RDVM is very skeptical about rehab in lieu of Sx. The owner is a nurse and has had knee Sx and lots of rehab herself. Thanks for your advice! Scata DVM, CCRT

[Guest guest]

hi Amy,

i am with you on the conservative management, and i am also doing a

retrospective study of CCL deficient stifles. i would also agree 100% that a

meniscal tear is instantly a surgical case, although i don't have any surgeon

near by that would only do arthoscopic sx..(too bad)...in my experience of over

100 dogs, my preliminary findings are that up to 3 years post the outcomes are

encouraging in terms of weight bearing lameness and functional assessment

(stairs, walks, etc) In fact i have videos of dogs that have had one leg done

surgically and one conservatively, and most people identify the surgical leg as

the lameness..(these were surgeries done by boarded surgeons)...

just my two cents worth and hopefully in the next year will have evidence to

back up the claim.

tania costa

CCRP