Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 I wonder if anyone has any ideas to add. It is a 54 year old gentleman. Has fairly mundane office job. No financial or toher worries. Insomina for 25 years with waking around 1-2am. He lies awake for a few hours and feels exhausted for lack of sleep. Then goes back to sleep for another 2-3 hrs before getting up at 8am. Small slim build with moderate amount of body hair. Middle child of 4. Describes having been shy and nervous as a child from age 8 to 15. Mother had nervous tension and always worried about everything.Went on to study in Oxford but never did as well as 2 of his brothers in his career. The other brother suffers from Mental health problems. Stormy marriage for 3 years with 26 and then divorced. No longterm relationships since then.Claims to have no health problems and all blood test results within normal range. hardly every gets colds of flu. Cycles to work and has a healthy diet.No major stresses in his life now.Asked him to have another test for TSH and T4.Along with the insomnia, he also sweats a lot at night. He observes sleeping hygiene routines and never sleeps during the day. He is very sensible about the balance of activity and resting and stays in for at least 2 evenings a week in order to rest and catch up with sleep. Other observations: he speaks fast, he moves fast and is often eratic in his movements. His life is generally quite well organised in order to minimise stress. He dislikes conflict. No problems with sexuality.Used to drink one cup of coffee in the morning. Otherwise herbal teas and the occasional glass of wine or beer.Has tried melantonin and Valerian in the past with no effect apparently. Treatment so far: Supporting the adrenal glands with Eleutherococcus, Rehmania and Borago , 5ml tds good Multimineral tablets For resting and sleep: dystolise - 1 tablet in the morning and 2 before bedtime (contains lemon balm, angelica, marjoram, red poppy, lavender oil) Stop drinking coffee Treatment over 6 weeks has made no difference to his sleep. He feels a little more relaxed and energetic during the day but nothing too noticeable. I am thinking of increasing the adrenal support during the day and using herbs like Valerian, Lactuca, .. Any ideas? Get Hotmail on your mobile from Vodafone Try it Now! _________________________________________________________________ Win New York holidays with Kellogg’s & Live Search http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354033/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2008 Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 I wonder if anyone has any ideas to add. It is a 54 year old gentleman. Has fairly mundane office job. No financial or toher worries. Insomina for 25 years with waking around 1-2am. He lies awake for a few hours and feels exhausted for lack of sleep. Then goes back to sleep for another 2-3 hrs before getting up at 8am. Small slim build with moderate amount of body hair. Middle child of 4. Describes having been shy and nervous as a child from age 8 to 15. Mother had nervous tension and always worried about everything.Went on to study in Oxford but never did as well as 2 of his brothers in his career. The other brother suffers from Mental health problems. Stormy marriage for 3 years with 26 and then divorced. No longterm relationships since then.Claims to have no health problems and all blood test results within normal range. hardly every gets colds of flu. Cycles to work and has a healthy diet.No major stresses in his life now.Asked him to have another test for TSH and T4.Along with the insomnia, he also sweats a lot at night. He observes sleeping hygiene routines and never sleeps during the day. He is very sensible about the balance of activity and resting and stays in for at least 2 evenings a week in order to rest and catch up with sleep. Other observations: he speaks fast, he moves fast and is often eratic in his movements. His life is generally quite well organised in order to minimise stress. He dislikes conflict. No problems with sexuality.Used to drink one cup of coffee in the morning. Otherwise herbal teas and the occasional glass of wine or beer.Has tried melantonin and Valerian in the past with no effect apparently. Treatment so far: Supporting the adrenal glands with Eleutherococcus, Rehmania and Borago , 5ml tds good Multimineral tablets For resting and sleep: dystolise - 1 tablet in the morning and 2 before bedtime (contains lemon balm, angelica, marjoram, red poppy, lavender oil) Stop drinking coffee Treatment over 6 weeks has made no difference to his sleep. He feels a little more relaxed and energetic during the day but nothing too noticeable. I am thinking of increasing the adrenal support during the day and using herbs like Valerian, Lactuca, .. Any ideas? Get Hotmail on your mobile from Vodafone Try it Now! _________________________________________________________________ Discover Bird's Eye View now with Multimap from Live Search http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354026/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Have you considered chronic hyperventilation syndrome as a possibility (disordered breathing pattern perhaps as a remnant of earlier and /or current stresses)? - that came to mind especially when you mentioned talking & moving fast. You could ask him to take a few gentle breaths in & out (through the nose), ask him to hold his nose then see how long he can comfortably hold his breath. Under 25 seconds indicates a degree of hyperventilation, the less time you can manage the more overbreathing is taking place. If this is the case with your patient, Buteyko training or other diaphragm breathing techniques may help. See: Dinah Bradley, Hyperventilation Syndrome (self-help aimed at layperson) or Chaitow, Bradley & Gilbert, Multidisciplinary Approaches to Breathing Pattern Disorders (for practitioners) best wishes, Isobel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Thanks for the advice. I will follow it up as part of the regime. I also found out that following his divorce, he spent almost 20 years every weekend exhausting himself by picking up his daughter from a long distance and then taking her back. He admitted that he had to force himself to remain awake at the wheel against his bodies messages of tiredness. It seems that he upset his body clock over a long time while at the same time being a nervous inclined person. As he wakes between 2 and 4am when melantonin should reach its peak I assume that the hypothalamic-pituitary- adrenal axis has been out of balance for a long time. He said he already tried melantonin and it didn't work. I don't know in what form he took this and am aware that it survives in the blood plasma only for 30-60 minutes. I wonder about 5HTP and L-tryptophan at bedtime and upon waking in the night to establish a better Circadian cycle while giving him higher dosages of tonics like He Shou Wou, Scuttelaria laterifolia, Eleutheroccous, Rehmania during the day.Has anyone got experience with L-tryptophan and/or 5-HTP for insomnia? To: ukherbal-list@...: izbennett@...: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:41:50 +0100Subject: Re:FW: insomnia and nightsweats Have you considered chronic hyperventilation syndrome as a possibility (disordered breathing pattern perhaps as a remnant of earlier and /or current stresses)? - that came to mind especially when you mentioned talking & moving fast.You could ask him to take a few gentle breaths in & out (through the nose), ask him to hold his nose then see how long he can comfortably hold his breath. Under 25 seconds indicates a degree of hyperventilation, the less time you can manage the more overbreathing is taking place. If this is the case with your patient, Buteyko training or other diaphragm breathing techniques may help.See:Dinah Bradley, Hyperventilation Syndrome (self-help aimed at layperson)orChaitow, Bradley & Gilbert, Multidisciplinary Approaches to Breathing Pattern Disorders (for practitioners)best wishes,Isobel[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _________________________________________________________________ Get all your favourite content with the slick new MSN Toolbar - FREE http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354027/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 What about Withania? J Fidler, MCPP, (RH) AHG Herbalist Subject: RE: Re:FW: insomnia and nightsweats To: ukherbal-list Date: Saturday, September 13, 2008, 7:52 AM Thanks for the advice. I will follow it up as part of the regime. I also found out that following his divorce, he spent almost 20 years every weekend exhausting himself by picking up his daughter from a long distance and then taking her back. He admitted that he had to force himself to remain awake at the wheel against his bodies messages of tiredness. It seems that he upset his body clock over a long time while at the same time being a nervous inclined person. As he wakes between 2 and 4am when melantonin should reach its peak I assume that the hypothalamic- pituitary- adrenal axis has been out of balance for a long time. He said he already tried melantonin and it didn't work. I don't know in what form he took this and am aware that it survives in the blood plasma only for 30-60 minutes. I wonder about 5HTP and L-tryptophan at bedtime and upon waking in the night to establish a better Circadian cycle while giving him higher dosages of tonics like He Shou Wou, Scuttelaria laterifolia, Eleutheroccous, Rehmania during the day.Has anyone got experience with L-tryptophan and/or 5-HTP for insomnia? To: ukherbal-list@ yahoogroups. comFrom: izbennetttalktalk (DOT) netDate: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:41:50 +0100Subject: Re:FW: insomnia and nightsweats Have you considered chronic hyperventilation syndrome as a possibility (disordered breathing pattern perhaps as a remnant of earlier and /or current stresses)? - that came to mind especially when you mentioned talking & moving fast.You could ask him to take a few gentle breaths in & out (through the nose), ask him to hold his nose then see how long he can comfortably hold his breath. Under 25 seconds indicates a degree of hyperventilation, the less time you can manage the more overbreathing is taking place. If this is the case with your patient, Buteyko training or other diaphragm breathing techniques may help.See:Dinah Bradley, Hyperventilation Syndrome (self-help aimed at layperson)orChaitow , Bradley & Gilbert, Multidisciplinary Approaches to Breathing Pattern Disorders (for practitioners) best wishes,Isobel[ Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Get all your favourite content with the slick new MSN Toolbar - FREE http://clk.atdmt. com/UKM/go/ 111354027/ direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Such a short cycle would also make me suspect sugar metabolism imbalance. J Fidler, MCPP, (RH) AHG Herbalist Subject: Re:FW: insomnia and nightsweats To: ukherbal-list Date: Saturday, September 13, 2008, 4:41 AM Have you considered chronic hyperventilation syndrome as a possibility (disordered breathing pattern perhaps as a remnant of earlier and /or current stresses)? - that came to mind especially when you mentioned talking & moving fast. You could ask him to take a few gentle breaths in & out (through the nose), ask him to hold his nose then see how long he can comfortably hold his breath. Under 25 seconds indicates a degree of hyperventilation, the less time you can manage the more overbreathing is taking place. If this is the case with your patient, Buteyko training or other diaphragm breathing techniques may help. See: Dinah Bradley, Hyperventilation Syndrome (self-help aimed at layperson) or Chaitow, Bradley & Gilbert, Multidisciplinary Approaches to Breathing Pattern Disorders (for practitioners) best wishes, Isobel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 Sounds like Yin deficiency as described in TCM but would need to check tongue and pulse for accurate diagnosis. Schizandra in day mix may be more useful adrenal tonic as it supports the yin and is used for night sweats. Other yin tonic herbs for night include Passiflora, scutellaria etc. Valerian may not suit this person and could make restlessness worse. Rehmannia is also a good choice but building up the yin/adrenals can take a bit of time. > > > > > > I wonder if anyone has any ideas to add. It is a 54 year old > gentleman. Has fairly mundane office job. No financial or toher > worries. Insomina for 25 years with waking around 1-2am. He lies awake > for a few hours and feels exhausted for lack of sleep. Then goes back > to sleep for another 2-3 hrs before getting up at 8am. Small slim > build with moderate amount of body hair. Middle child of 4. Describes > having been shy and nervous as a child from age 8 to 15. Mother had > nervous tension and always worried about everything.Went on to study > in Oxford but never did as well as 2 of his brothers in his career. > The other brother suffers from Mental health problems. Stormy marriage > for 3 years with 26 and then divorced. No longterm relationships since > then.Claims to have no health problems and all blood test results > within normal range. hardly every gets colds of flu. Cycles to work > and has a healthy diet.No major stresses in his life now.Asked him to > have another test for TSH and T4.Along with the insomnia, he also > sweats a lot at night. He observes sleeping hygiene routines and never > sleeps during the day. He is very sensible about the balance of > activity and resting and stays in for at least 2 evenings a week in > order to rest and catch up with sleep. Other observations: he speaks > fast, he moves fast and is often eratic in his movements. His life is > generally quite well organised in order to minimise stress. He > dislikes conflict. No problems with sexuality.Used to drink one cup of > coffee in the morning. Otherwise herbal teas and the occasional glass > of wine or beer.Has tried melantonin and Valerian in the past with no > effect apparently. Treatment so far: Supporting the adrenal glands > with Eleutherococcus, Rehmania and Borago , 5ml tds > good Multimineral tablets For resting > and sleep: dystolise - 1 tablet in the morning and 2 before bedtime > (contains lemon balm, angelica, marjoram, red poppy, lavender oil) > Stop drinking coffee Treatment over 6 weeks has > made no difference to his sleep. He feels a little more relaxed and > energetic during the day but nothing too noticeable. I am thinking > of increasing the adrenal support during the day and using herbs like > Valerian, Lactuca, .. Any ideas? > > Get Hotmail on your mobile from Vodafone Try it Now! > _________________________________________________________________ > Win New York holidays with Kellogg’s & Live Search > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354033/direct/01/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 Hi there, based on your information it seems he has a VATA constitution. VATA people often have sleeping problems. the time he wakes up during the night is also when the cycle of VATA starts. I have had amazing results with VATA people with this kind of problem using Ashwaganda powder and Brahmi. Together with Eleutherocsocus and Liquorice. Ahswanganda and Brahmi restore the nervous system and it is therfore a long term treatment. in the meantime i would give him substantial doses of a good sleeping mix so that his body gets into the habit of sleeping. However none of the sleeping mixes we have in our tradition are nervine restoratives. Therefore, he needs to take Ashwaganda and Brahmi. The taste of Ashwaganda powder is not very nice I take it in apple juice 1 teaspoonful in the morning and one in the evening. Brahmi is best taken in capsules as the dosage should be accurate. Idealy both should be taken in hot milk witha a bit of honey but the taste is just too horribel. He also could benefit from warm sesame massages with some drops of ess. oil. massage the whole body leave it for 10 minutes have a warm bath or shover and only wash off the excess. If he finds this too much then just robb the sole of the feet with warm sesame oil before going to sleep (wear socks so that bed sheets to get messy ). Hope this helps. Iria Schiller URHP > > > > > > > I wonder if anyone has any ideas to add. It is a 54 year old gentleman. Has > fairly mundane office job. No financial or toher worries. Insomina for 25 > years with waking around 1-2am. He lies awake for a few hours and feels > exhausted for lack of sleep. Then goes back to sleep for another 2-3 hrs > before getting up at 8am. Small slim build with moderate amount of body > hair. Middle child of 4. Describes having been shy and nervous as a child > from age 8 to 15. Mother had nervous tension and always worried about > everything.Went on to study in Oxford but never did as well as 2 of his > brothers in his career. The other brother suffers from Mental health > problems. Stormy marriage for 3 years with 26 and then divorced. No longterm > relationships since then.Claims to have no health problems and all blood > test results within normal range. hardly every gets colds of flu. Cycles to > work and has a healthy diet.No major stresses in his life now.Asked him to > have another test for TSH and T4.Along with the insomnia, he also sweats a > lot at night. He observes sleeping hygiene routines and never sleeps during > the day. He is very sensible about the balance of activity and resting and > stays in for at least 2 evenings a week in order to rest and catch up with > sleep. Other observations: he speaks fast, he moves fast and is often eratic > in his movements. His life is generally quite well organised in order to > minimise stress. He dislikes conflict. No problems with sexuality.Used to > drink one cup of coffee in the morning. Otherwise herbal teas and the > occasional glass of wine or beer.Has tried melantonin and Valerian in the > past with no effect apparently. Treatment so far: Supporting the adrenal > glands with Eleutherococcus, Rehmania and Borago , 5ml > tds good Multimineral > tablets For resting and sleep: dystolise - 1 tablet > in the morning and 2 before bedtime (contains lemon balm, angelica, > marjoram, red poppy, lavender oil) Stop drinking > coffee Treatment over 6 weeks has made no difference to his sleep. He feels > a little more relaxed and energetic during the day but nothing too > noticeable. I am thinking of increasing the adrenal support during the day > and using herbs like Valerian, Lactuca, .. Any ideas? > > Get Hotmail on your mobile from Vodafone Try it Now! > _________________________________________________________________ > Win New York holidays with Kellogg's & Live Search > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354033/direct/01/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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