Re: Update and a Question for the Mothers in the group

[Guest guest]

Joe,

I had two induced labors (which is much worse than natural labor), both

without painkillers, which amazed my OB/GYN so I'm no cry baby. I can

honestly say having a severe RA flare is worse because you not only have

severe pain, but you're also dealing with extreme fatigue and nothing cute

at the end to look forward to. On top of that, you don't have a team of

medical experts, family and friends hovering over you, cheering you through

it and catering to your every need. In fact, in some cases, family and

friends don't realize how rotten you feel and think you're not trying hard

enough. I mean, how many mothers in labor are expected to go to work yet

how many RA sufferers worry their jobs are in jeopardy if they don't show

up even in the middle of a flare. All in all, I'd much rather have a baby.

Congrats on feeling better -- you've convinced me to try Boswellia. Have

fun in Amsterdam!

a

rheumatic Update and a Question for the Mothers in the group

From: Joe Graff <joegraff@...>

Hello all,

Glad you all are back! I went through probably the roughest period

mentally I've had with this disease yet. As some may remember, I have

been on the AP since September 29, 1998 (not going to forget that date

any time soon!), I had some remarkable progress after the first month

and then seemed to slip a bit, then with christmas and traveling I went

into a HUGE flare and when I started seeing a new Doc (Dr. Kempf) it

looked like I may need more aggressive treatment to get the swelling and

pain under control. At least I got a 3 month reprieve from Dr. Kempf on

MTX, we'd wait and see how I did. In the meantime I had gone to NIH to

participate in the same study that Mark has. When I got the preliminary

report, guess what their recommendation was? Yup, methotrexate!

Arghhhhhhh! I felt like I couldn't get away from that stuff. I started

becoming more depressed. And then the list server went down

Around the same time I saw Dr. Kempf for the second time someone

mentioned that Dr. Mercola recommends Boswellia as a natural

anti-inflammatory. Since it was cheap I bought a bottle. Within one week

of starting the Boswellia my swelling was down about 75%! Since then

it's gone down to where I have probably only 10% of the swelling I did

before. Remarkable! Not to mention my level of pain has dropped to

almost none! I almost can't believe it! It's been over three weeks now

and I have not had one flare and the past week has been absolutely

unbelievable! I **KNOW** now that I am getting better. I almost want to

go see Dr. Kempf now (7 weeks early) just to go " HA! Told you so! " Now I

am a little worried that I will get thrown back into RA Hell any day

now, but what can you do? I'll just keep taking the mino and boswellia,

keep eating right, keep praying and hope for the best...

The only real bummer for me now is that in that NIH report they

mentioned my x-ray results. Apparently my hands are simply trashed.

" Severe erosion of the carpal bone " probably explains my hand numbness

(which is also almost gone!) One of the " funny " things I've noticed when

the swelling went away was how I could really feel what was going on in

those severely affected joints. I'm convinced my left knee is fairly

damaged also due to the grinding the I know feel when I walk upstairs

and such (It's still better than being RA swollen and hurting all the

time!), so I am probably a candidate for knee replacement. Do they have

artificial wrist transplants? That concerns me the most, as well as the

possibility of permanent peripheral nerve damage, but all this is way

better than RA so my spirits are up. Way up!

I feel so good I booked a long weekend trip to Europe in 3 weeks. I'm

going to go back to Amsterdam, where this whole nightmare really started

for me. I hope the flight doesn't hurt me too bad, but I think it's

worth the risk. I really need a vacation where I can relax and not be in

pain 24/7. I'll let you all know how it goes.... Wish me luck!

Secondly, I have been working on my writing since the group was taken

away for a little while there (yup, I'm writing about what it's like to

be a RA victim and on the AP) and I think I could use some help from the

ladies, mother's specifically. I was wondering if anyone could compare

and contrast the pain of childbirth with a severe RA flare/Herxheimer?

Can anyone help me with this, as I don't think I'll get the chance to

gestate a child myself?! <g>

Thanks in advance!

j.

------------------------------------

ph A. Graff

Director of Digital Prepress

Graphic Communications, Inc.

(301) 599-2020

" Obstacles are those frightful things

you see when you take your eyes off

your goals "

------------------------------------------------------------------------

To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription

to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and

select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

[Guest guest]

Joe,

When did they first diagnose your RA? Your xray story is scary - I'm due

back at the NIH in a few days - will be interesting to see what mine turn

out to be. I don't think I am much worse than I was in October, actually

probably better, except for my little fingers on both hands which have

gotten worse. Boswellia, here I come!

Mark

rheumatic Update and a Question for the Mothers in the group

>From: Joe Graff <joegraff@...>

>

>Hello all,

>

>Glad you all are back! I went through probably the roughest period

>mentally I've had with this disease yet. As some may remember, I have

>been on the AP since September 29, 1998 (not going to forget that date

>any time soon!),

[Guest guest]

hello Joe,

I am happy things turned around for you and that you are the right track

again.

Now , you had a question about pain from disease and childbirth pain.This is

an easy one for me.First, my disease is ankylosing spondylitis which I am

considered to be from a moderate severe level. A year ago christmas, I had

pain 7 days a week and 24 hours a day. I called my body the torture chamber

and it was torture all the way.

My experience with pregnancy and childbirth was a wild one, pain all the way

too. My first child took 28 hours, nothing to control the pain and as the

baby came down, she was upside down. So this young lady fractured my coccyx

and up into the hips. It was loud enough for the whole room to hear, it was

quite obvious to know what just had happened. Three years later, the coccyx

is still not healed and I was pregnant with my son. Well, it was a

complicated pregnancy, hemmorhagging, premature contractions, had to take

progestone, ventolin and lay flat on my back the whole time. My uterus would

contract so much, you swear I had swallowed a bowling ball. When I took the

ventolin the ball disappeared. This time labour took 52 hours, contractions

at 1 and a half minutes apart the whole time. My doctor also warned me that

I wold have the pain from the fractured coccyx very early into the dlivery

stages.

If I compare the two, I would say it was the AS that was more torturing but

only because I had a different attitude about that I had a great beautiful

baby in the end of all the pain. The pain from the disease is negative all

the way, no nice package in the end.

This leads me to the last thing, I unfortunately, have the chance to have

another disease called trigeminal neuralgia. It is medically known to be the

worst possible pain to man , woman or child alive. This is in the medical

books. I have had this for two years and have been through hell with this

disease. I can honestly say that I would go through ten difficult deliveries

than one crisis of this disease. I was asked one time, if someone had a

magic wand and get rid of one disease, which would I pick, I said very

quickly the trigeminal neuralgia. People with this disease commit suicide

very early on because before we get things under control,you just want to

die. I will NEVER forget my first crisis for as long as I live and if there

was a gun that day in front of me, I would have not hesitated a second to

use it. THAT is how bad it was.People with this disease are terrified to

have another crisis ,they are ready to jump on an operating room table to

have their skulls opened up, to try get rid of the pain and they know very

well that this surgery is no guarentee that it will get rid of the pain,plus

that they may become blind in one eye, deaf in one ear or become paralyzed.

It goes to shoes what terror can do to a person.

Pain, no matter which way it comes, is so very cruel. It can twist the mind

to extremes.

People need support, love and compassion from their families, good CARING

doctors and just to move on one day at a time.

> rheumatic Update and a Question for the Mothers in the group

>

>

> From: Joe Graff <joegraff@...>

>

> Hello all,

>

> Glad you all are back! I went through probably the roughest period

> mentally I've had with this disease yet. As some may remember, I have

> been on the AP since September 29, 1998 (not going to forget that date

> any time soon!), I had some remarkable progress after the first month

> and then seemed to slip a bit, then with christmas and traveling I went

> into a HUGE flare and when I started seeing a new Doc (Dr. Kempf) it

> looked like I may need more aggressive treatment to get the swelling and

> pain under control. At least I got a 3 month reprieve from Dr. Kempf on

> MTX, we'd wait and see how I did. In the meantime I had gone to NIH to

> participate in the same study that Mark has. When I got the preliminary

> report, guess what their recommendation was? Yup, methotrexate!

> Arghhhhhhh! I felt like I couldn't get away from that stuff. I started

> becoming more depressed. And then the list server went down

>

> Around the same time I saw Dr. Kempf for the second time someone

> mentioned that Dr. Mercola recommends Boswellia as a natural

> anti-inflammatory. Since it was cheap I bought a bottle. Within one week

> of starting the Boswellia my swelling was down about 75%! Since then

> it's gone down to where I have probably only 10% of the swelling I did

> before. Remarkable! Not to mention my level of pain has dropped to

> almost none! I almost can't believe it! It's been over three weeks now

> and I have not had one flare and the past week has been absolutely

> unbelievable! I **KNOW** now that I am getting better. I almost want to

> go see Dr. Kempf now (7 weeks early) just to go " HA! Told you so! " Now I

> am a little worried that I will get thrown back into RA Hell any day

> now, but what can you do? I'll just keep taking the mino and boswellia,

> keep eating right, keep praying and hope for the best...

>

> The only real bummer for me now is that in that NIH report they

> mentioned my x-ray results. Apparently my hands are simply trashed.

> " Severe erosion of the carpal bone " probably explains my hand numbness

> (which is also almost gone!) One of the " funny " things I've noticed when

> the swelling went away was how I could really feel what was going on in

> those severely affected joints. I'm convinced my left knee is fairly

> damaged also due to the grinding the I know feel when I walk upstairs

> and such (It's still better than being RA swollen and hurting all the

> time!), so I am probably a candidate for knee replacement. Do they have

> artificial wrist transplants? That concerns me the most, as well as the

> possibility of permanent peripheral nerve damage, but all this is way

> better than RA so my spirits are up. Way up!

>

> I feel so good I booked a long weekend trip to Europe in 3 weeks. I'm

> going to go back to Amsterdam, where this whole nightmare really started

> for me. I hope the flight doesn't hurt me too bad, but I think it's

> worth the risk. I really need a vacation where I can relax and not be in

> pain 24/7. I'll let you all know how it goes.... Wish me luck!

>

>

> Secondly, I have been working on my writing since the group was taken

> away for a little while there (yup, I'm writing about what it's like to

> be a RA victim and on the AP) and I think I could use some help from the

> ladies, mother's specifically. I was wondering if anyone could compare

> and contrast the pain of childbirth with a severe RA flare/Herxheimer?

> Can anyone help me with this, as I don't think I'll get the chance to

> gestate a child myself?! <g>

>

> Thanks in advance!

>

>

> j.

>

> ------------------------------------

> ph A. Graff

> Director of Digital Prepress

> Graphic Communications, Inc.

> (301) 599-2020

> " Obstacles are those frightful things

> you see when you take your eyes off

> your goals "

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription

> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and

> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/3/99 3:12:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,

paula.peden@... writes:

<< All in all, I'd much rather have a baby.

>>

So now all we need to know is the RA worse than having teeth pulled? LOL well,

having lost mine due to poor dental hygiene and the use of a tooth whitener

product, I can safely say that a flare up is much worse than having teeth

pulled LOL

[Guest guest]

Joe you started your AP just before me. I too had remarkable progress at

the beginning and stopped taking the Plaquinel and Metho. I seem to be

stuck tho with a little more pain than when I was taking the Plaqu and

Metho. I don't know what a flare is like as I haven't had one. It sounds

like you are going thru a big one. You get worse before you get better so

you have a big jump in improvement coming.

Enjoy your trip. The Boswellian sounds worth trying.

Bev

rheumatic Update and a Question for the Mothers in the group

>From: Joe Graff <joegraff@...>

>

>Hello all,

>

>Glad you all are back! I went through probably the roughest period

>mentally I've had with this disease yet. As some may remember, I have

>been on the AP since September 29, 1998 (not going to forget that date

>any time soon!), I had some remarkable progress after the first month

>and then seemed to slip a bit, then with christmas and traveling I went

>into a HUGE flare and when I started seeing a new Doc (Dr. Kempf) it

>looked like I may need more aggressive treatment to get the swelling and

>pain under control. At least I got a 3 month reprieve from Dr. Kempf on

>MTX, we'd wait and see how I did. In the meantime I had gone to NIH to

>participate in the same study that Mark has. When I got the preliminary

>report, guess what their recommendation was? Yup, methotrexate!

>Arghhhhhhh! I felt like I couldn't get away from that stuff. I started

>becoming more depressed. And then the list server went down

>

>Around the same time I saw Dr. Kempf for the second time someone

>mentioned that Dr. Mercola recommends Boswellia as a natural

>anti-inflammatory. Since it was cheap I bought a bottle. Within one week

>of starting the Boswellia my swelling was down about 75%! Since then

>it's gone down to where I have probably only 10% of the swelling I did

>before. Remarkable! Not to mention my level of pain has dropped to

>almost none! I almost can't believe it! It's been over three weeks now

>and I have not had one flare and the past week has been absolutely

>unbelievable! I **KNOW** now that I am getting better. I almost want to

>go see Dr. Kempf now (7 weeks early) just to go " HA! Told you so! " Now I

>am a little worried that I will get thrown back into RA Hell any day

>now, but what can you do? I'll just keep taking the mino and boswellia,

>keep eating right, keep praying and hope for the best...

>

>The only real bummer for me now is that in that NIH report they

>mentioned my x-ray results. Apparently my hands are simply trashed.

> " Severe erosion of the carpal bone " probably explains my hand numbness

>(which is also almost gone!) One of the " funny " things I've noticed when

>the swelling went away was how I could really feel what was going on in

>those severely affected joints. I'm convinced my left knee is fairly

>damaged also due to the grinding the I know feel when I walk upstairs

>and such (It's still better than being RA swollen and hurting all the

>time!), so I am probably a candidate for knee replacement. Do they have

>artificial wrist transplants? That concerns me the most, as well as the

>possibility of permanent peripheral nerve damage, but all this is way

>better than RA so my spirits are up. Way up!

>

>I feel so good I booked a long weekend trip to Europe in 3 weeks. I'm

>going to go back to Amsterdam, where this whole nightmare really started

>for me. I hope the flight doesn't hurt me too bad, but I think it's

>worth the risk. I really need a vacation where I can relax and not be in

>pain 24/7. I'll let you all know how it goes.... Wish me luck!

>

>

>Secondly, I have been working on my writing since the group was taken

>away for a little while there (yup, I'm writing about what it's like to

>be a RA victim and on the AP) and I think I could use some help from the

>ladies, mother's specifically. I was wondering if anyone could compare

>and contrast the pain of childbirth with a severe RA flare/Herxheimer?

>Can anyone help me with this, as I don't think I'll get the chance to

>gestate a child myself?! <g>

>

>Thanks in advance!

>

>

>j.

>

>------------------------------------

>ph A. Graff

>Director of Digital Prepress

>Graphic Communications, Inc.

>(301) 599-2020

> " Obstacles are those frightful things

> you see when you take your eyes off

> your goals "

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription

>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and

>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

>

[Guest guest]

Is there any thing that conflicts with Boswillian ie meds

food , anything??? Sounds really good!!

Thank you so much for the info Root

[Guest guest]

Root wrote:

>

> Is there any thing that conflicts with Boswillian ie meds

> food , anything??? Sounds really good!!

Not that I am aware of, the bottle says take it with food and so I have

been, but I haven't noticed many side-effects (sometimes after taking

it, when you burp your get a taste of it--sort of....It's not a bad

taste or anything, kinda sweet/acidic, almost like lemonade <g>)

> Thank you so much for the info Root

No problem! Glad to contribute! And thanks to whomever gave me the idea

in the frist place (and I'm sorry I don't remember who that was!)

j.

------------------------------------

ph A. Graff

Director of Digital Prepress

Graphic Communications, Inc.

(301) 599-2020

" Obstacles are those frightful things

you see when you take your eyes off

your goals "

[Guest guest]

Hello Joe,

I'll have to pick up some Boswellia -- it sounds terrific.

As for childbirth, it is definitely MUCH easier to take than any RA pain

I've experienced. (However, I think I am not quite as bad off as many out

there.) My first child was delivered by c-section for which I was, of

course, numb from the waist down. The recovery was painful, but tolerable.

My next two kids were delivered VBAC (vaginal birth after cesarean) and

without any painkillers. There is definitely a point in labor where you

wonder if you can go on with it all, but it is a different kind of pain than

that caused by RA. The pain of childbirth comes in ever increasing waves,

and you can get on top of it via your own mind. It actually is a wierd kind

of physical/psycho/spiritual challenge in a sense. I've yet to be able to

get ahead of my RA pain with my mind or spirit. Maybe it's just that in

giving birth we fully understand the cause and the reason for the pain, we

know the pain will eventually end, and we look forward to the beautiful

little baby we'll receive as reward when it's all over. Plus, when you're

giving birth, your're not really thinking about all the things labor is

preventing you from doing; you know that when labor is done, you'll be able

to resume all of your normal day-to-day activities -- ie. all the things

taken for granted before RA!

Have a fun trip!

Kari

[Guest guest]

I am interested in this herb too and am going to see the Natureopath about

it. I haven't consulted him before so it should be interesting. Will let

everyone know my findings.

Bev

rheumatic Re: Update and a Question for the Mothers in the group

>From: " Root " <ru42354@...>

>

>Is there any thing that conflicts with Boswillian ie meds

>food , anything??? Sounds really good!!

>Thank you so much for the info Root

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription

>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and

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>