Re: Introduction () change of dynamic after diagnosis (long)

[Guest guest]

Judy I loved your post. Can I showthis to my wife please? It echoes a lot of the things that I wentthrough after the diagnosis.ThanksGreg dx AS at 53To: " aspires-relationships " <aspires-relationships >, Date: 16/07/2012 09:30 PMSubject: Re: Re: Introduction () change of dynamic after diagnosis (long)Sent by: aspires-relationships Welcome to Aspires, . I am an NT, partner of Ian, AS. He wasntdiagnosed for a long time, well into his 40s, at which time he too foundthe diagnosis a relief. I was in the position of being a recent partnerin his life, he having had many bruising experiences with social interactions,a failed marriage and a very chaotic childhood and lonely young adult years. At the same time of it being a relief, he was angry and resentfulthat he wasnt diagnosed earlier, and that he had to go through 'all that'to find out 'what was wrong' (in fact, nothing was 'wrong', AS being acondition and not uncommon, at that). Thereby came a process where I, despite thinkingof myself as an enlightened soul, and indeed being the catalyst of thediagnosis - became the angst ridden partner, suddenly hurt that hey, youhave your diagnosis, where does that leave 'us'. He was happy but alsoa wee bit smug, saying, this is how I am, wow, its Ok, and I can now bethe person I am and not worry. It is all you NT's fault, not mine! Ianthen went through that grieving, as did I, he angry that no one had pickedthis up before and that his life could have been so much better. And I,because I realised - this is the crunch - that this IS how it is, and thatthings would not be different - AS being for life, etc etc. I hadn't knownmuch about Asperger's before this, and thought it was some sort of autismthat made the person struggle in a mentally ill way. Wrong! From that came the realisation that we shouldwork together to make it meld to our lives and what we wanted for the future.Ian went off the rails a bit, doing his teenage rampage that he was denied,got a bit AS-slap happy, saying to others 'I have Asperger syndrome soI can do what I like, say what I like, this is me, tough'. That didnt lastlong, thankfully, and I went through a hellish time then, thinking I hada right old narcissist on my hands. However, with hindsight, I can seehe was reacting to the hurts of the past. One of Ian's traits is to containand carry with him all past hurts; just as he had spent all his earlierlife trying to dissect his approach to others, and he so wanted to be likean NT - being liked, effortless socialising, so he pretended to be an NT,including the good old script learning for set phrases, and using mimicryto be one. It didnt work. I would say that, for him, the hardest partwas being accepted as an AS - because this brought out the best and worstin people. Some people were kinder to him. and those who refused to understandeased themselves out of our lives - this was actually hardon Ian, he had spent his life trying to win over people. They saw him asbattling, being awkward, and shouting the odds when he thought he was rightto enforce his views. He also, conversely, found it hard to be in a labelledbox marked AS, when he was the renegade, the Marlon Brando character andhe was suddenly 'the typical AS'. He has settled into his skin now, almostin a third age, whereby he is now the Aspie person, who knows what histraits are, has thought about how to make his life easier, has seen thatthe world is full of diverse persons, and that its not all a conspiracyagainst him... What about me, during all this? I was thesame. I found it hard when we told people about his AS. Far from beingthe panacea for his 'odd behaviour' (my sister's quote, not mine) theyall recoiled in my family, from this 'autism' thing. Only one sister andmy nieces remain friendly. It is a fear of what other people think - andthat on knowing about the fears and phobias of AS, you wont be taking themto a wedding party or to a social occasion very often. And so you haveto decide, if NT partner, whether that curtails you, too. And so you becomethe person who goes places alone. Who adapts and accepts - and grits theteeth when others stupidly make remarks about you ('I didnt know you werewith someone, I thought you were single, you never bring Ian') I went from a relief at knowing that my suspicionsabout him being on the spectrum were right; to watching him go off on aspree; to having him say 'poor me', to adjusting to the AS and then usingit an excuse for his narcissism. Then, finally (grieving process nearlyover) acceptance that, although things should have been better in the past,he would be better off using his new knowledge and understanding, to improvehis future. He is proud of being AS, he is often heard to say hedidnt want to be an NT. Not quite so. He spend that early childhood dyingto be part of a clique, and wishing he was like his peers. He tried tobe NT and failed, and why not - he shouldnt try to fit a box just becauseits the so called norm. He has his own 'norm'. He says he used tosee the world through a perspex sheet, he on one side, the world on theother. He uses me to dispense NT wisdom, to interpret NT world, and todeal with all things that faze him. Hence the relief of being diagnosed.He said at the time - I thought I was mad. Ian says the worst thing about being AS,is that we NT's dont appreciate the higher level of skills that such ashe possesses. I say he doesnt appreciate my skills, such as when he asksme to fill in a form, do some task that offends his sensory processing,or go to the post office because its smelly and crowded and he cant gothere. So, not so unworthy, after all! The irony for me of Ian's AS isthat the books state 'disorder', 'disability', 'autistic' and this is scaryfor us. But he is in fact a high thinker who cant do up his shoelaces.An argument we have had is the 'disorder' versus 'gifted'. Who says thatAS is different - perhaps the NT's are the different ones... so dont thinkof yourself as being the odd one out. You are a different thinker, maybeyou have OCD, maybe you have Sensory Processing issues. So, know what thoseare, and make them known to your partner, who can then adapt to your needsin terms of those traits. But dont let it rule your lives. I feel that the key to understanding AS isto read the help books out there, (such as Tony Attwood) and see how itfits. The Complete Asperger helped me as much as it did Ian. Itsa great thing, knowing you are not alone. Its not so good to see that thereaint no going back, if one has been hoping for a change or a cure. However,for the AS partner, there is that realisation (horrible or not) that thisIS how it is, and there is adaption, understanding, acknowledgement andacceptance to be had. And, a bit unreasonably, it appears that itsthe NT that a head start in that we can be more adaptable? (Up fordebate) and by being so, can help our AS to adapt by overcoming fears andsetting the scene, or even setting boundaries. It may mean that the hopes an NT partnersecretly harboured that things would change, or there would be a miraclecure, or once diagnosis occurs, then a magical tranformation - AS personwould say 'now I see why you get upset with me!' and then never do thesame again..., well it might not be so... they may know why you are upsetas an NT, but can you prevent it happening again? Maybe not. But you canjustify the rationale behind the AS thinking and actions? The way forward for me and Ian is that Iknow how to communicate with him now. The books helped me to see how hisbrain worked. That he cant 'do' social. That he will disappear for hourson end on his hobbies. That he is immersed in thought, so that if I intrudeon those thoughts, he might well drone an impolite and curt reply that,if it was done by anyone else, would merit a box round the ears. That hedoesnt mean what I think he means, that he needs my conversations in shortbursts, and when he is ready to hear me. That he doesnt automatically concentrateon my needs so I have to ask him to listen to me when I say what I needfrom him. He will forget my birthday, show no emotionat my ills, and think foremost of himself, survival being a key thing forIan. He has got used to being concerned about himself, through years ofneglect and fear. He isnt a cruel person. I have adapted to this, but not been consumedby it. What an NT partner may be feeling after diagnosis is, well it wasall about him/her before, and it still is - now he/her has a reason toread up on AS, and talk about typical traits. So, the partner needs tobe included. I feel that Ian and I work as a team and we both 'live with'his AS. I dont let him wallow too much, because that leads to the lovelyOCD that is prevalent in some AS where he relives negative thoughts allthe time. I ask him, in short bursts, to let me know how he feels, andwhat he is thinking. No sulking, no brooding, or lack of interaction. Ian wont talk in long sentences unless itsabout his hobbies, because he loses track. He might see our interactionin a different way to myself. He will say to himself, I have spoken toJudy today. (ticks box). Now I will play my computer game and then I willbe hungry. (Ask Judy for food; tick). I will see it as: I got home fromwork knackered and angry. Needed to discuss my day. Ian says that he isgoing to play his game, see you later. Because he doesnt read faces andbecause even with being soaked with rain, missed the bus, and distressed,he wont know what to do. Now I say, later, I will tell you about my day.And that bargain is kept. So, I say exactly what I mean and how I meanit, and I negotiate. Amy might not do this yet, and she might have beenfeeling that in the past, she was ignored or said the wrong thing? Maybethat isnt the case. But if she has felt excluded from your life in someways, the diagnosis would make this even more acute - there is also theaspect that some of the books are quite alarming - the autistic badge,the demonstration of how the syndrome can be regarded as a problem, a disabilityto be overcome. That is frightening at first. , you sound as though you are pleasedwith the diagnosis and are happy to proceed, perhaps you have the samethoughts as Ian, that at last there is some sense to the way you thinkand feel. Amy may be stunned to find out that this is how you are, andreading about it, knowing that some of the traits you may have will needto be accepted rather than dismissed. I know that I felt subsumed by it,and somewhat diminished by being the lesser person of the outfit, yet carryingthe burden as I saw it at the time, for the inadequacies (I dont feel thatway now). Appreciating the differences, understanding them, and knowingthat my AS partner cannot be the social animal, although is charming attimes, gauche at others, and inappropriate most of the time... I used to use his AS as an excuse for hisbehaviour and apologise for him. Not anymore, that was a cop out on mybehalf - out of weariness and worrying 'what others think'. You sound likeyou are already there, in that respect, and if Amy is concerned that shehas to tell others, or that the prospect of your being AS is too great,its worth remembering that you both have come this far without that knowledge.Now, with the knowledge to hand, you can move forward and have a greaterunderstanding of what makes you think and feel the way that you do; andwith that, comes the acceptance and also the enlightenment of what youtwo can do together. Although I still resent, and still feel weary,I know Ian a lot better now, and can anticipate what makes him sad, angryor fearful. I am proud of the way he manages his day and how his talentsshine through. He isnt disabled or teminally ill, he isnt a coward, heisnt a bad person. So he will live with his AS and he carries out lotsof AS style complex tasks despite the sensory, the 'stimmie' triggers andthe fear of people. If other people dont like his manner or hisstimmies, he can deal with it, and them, in much more rounded way thanbefore. And so can I. Amy will no doubt be proud of you and will be wonderingand worrying how this will impact on her and how she can help? Well, readingthe books, knowing about AS, and knowing it is part of the whole neurodiversityand makes you one of life's thinkers, will help her to know you are a brilliantperson with a range of what may be called 'quirks' but as long as you dontstop speaking to her, and keep communicating - even by email if the wordswont come - then you will be getting somewhere. So again, welcome to the AS family. Sorryfor the long post. I am an NT, remember! Judy B, Scotland. From Judy BarrowTo: aspires-relationships Sent: Sunday, 15 July 2012, 19:53Subject: Re: IntroductionHello All, I guess I'll jump in now as well. My nameis , short for is, and last month I didn't really know what Asperger'swas. Then a friend shares an aspie quiz with me, and I scored positive.That set me off on a storm of research, then a self-diagnosis, then therapywhere my therapist confirmed the diagnosis. It's been a confusing time.My partner of nine years, Amy, has been havinga hard time with it as well. She's been going through a lot of anger andupset that I didn't understand. To me, the diagnosis was a relief. It hasn'tbeen for her. She's coming around, and she's started reading some of thematerial I've gathered. The books I've read indicate her reaction isn'tunusual; some people go through a grieving process. But it scared me andfor a while I was afraid I'd lose her because of my diagnosis. I'm lessafraid now, but still a bit concerned. We just moved across the countryto a new city, with new jobs, so there's been plenty of other stress aswell. Well, that's probably enough for an intro.I'm glad to have found Aspires and I hope to be able to help as well asbe helped here. Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Please do, Greg. I have shown Ian many of your posts, so its flattering that I can repay that debt. Judy BSent from Judy Barrow's iPad

Judy I loved your post. Can I show this to my wife please? It echoes a lot of the things that I went through after the diagnosis. Thanks Greg dx AS at 53 To: "aspires-relationships " <aspires-relationships >, Date: 16/07/2012 09:30 PM Subject: Re: Re: Introduction () change of dynamic after diagnosis (long) Sent by: aspires-relationships

Welcome to Aspires, .

I am an NT, partner of Ian, AS. He wasnt diagnosed for a long time, well into his 40s, at which time he too found the diagnosis a relief. I was in the position of being a recent partner in his life, he having had many bruising experiences with social interactions, a failed marriage and a very chaotic childhood and lonely young adult years. At the same time of it being a relief, he was angry and resentful that he wasnt diagnosed earlier, and that he had to go through 'all that' to find out 'what was wrong' (in fact, nothing was 'wrong', AS being a condition and not uncommon, at that). Thereby came a process where I, despite thinking of myself as an enlightened soul, and indeed being the catalyst of the diagnosis - became the angst ridden partner, suddenly hurt that hey, you have your diagnosis, where

does that leave 'us'. He was happy but also a wee bit smug, saying, this is how I am, wow, its Ok, and I can now be the person I am and not worry. It is all you NT's fault, not mine! Ian then went through that grieving, as did I, he angry that no one had picked this up before and that his life could have been so much better. And I, because I realised - this is the crunch - that this IS how it is, and that things would not be different - AS being for life, etc etc. I hadn't known much about Asperger's before this, and thought it was some sort of autism that made the person struggle in a mentally ill way. Wrong! From that came the realisation that we should work together to make it meld to our lives and what we wanted for the future. Ian went off the rails a bit, doing his teenage rampage that he was denied, got a bit AS-slap happy, saying to others 'I have Asperger syndrome so I

can do what I like, say what I like, this is me, tough'. That didnt last long, thankfully, and I went through a hellish time then, thinking I had a right old narcissist on my hands. However, with hindsight, I can see he was reacting to the hurts of the past. One of Ian's traits is to contain and carry with him all past hurts; just as he had spent all his earlier life trying to dissect his approach to others, and he so wanted to be like an NT - being liked, effortless socialising, so he pretended to be an NT, including the good old script learning for set phrases, and using mimicry to be one. It didnt work. I would say that, for him, the hardest part was being accepted as an AS - because this brought out the best and worst in people. Some people were kinder to him. and those who refused to understand eased themselves out of our lives - this was actually hard on Ian,

he had spent his life trying to win over people. They saw him as battling, being awkward, and shouting the odds when he thought he was right to enforce his views. He also, conversely, found it hard to be in a labelled box marked AS, when he was the renegade, the Marlon Brando character and he was suddenly 'the typical AS'. He has settled into his skin now, almost in a third age, whereby he is now the Aspie person, who knows what his traits are, has thought about how to make his life easier, has seen that the world is full of diverse persons, and that its not all a conspiracy against him... What about me, during all this? I was the same. I found it hard when we told people about his AS. Far from being the panacea for his 'odd behaviour' (my sister's quote, not mine) they all recoiled in my family, from this 'autism' thing. Only one sister and my nieces remain friendly. It is a

fear of what other people think - and that on knowing about the fears and phobias of AS, you wont be taking them to a wedding party or to a social occasion very often. And so you have to decide, if NT partner, whether that curtails you, too. And so you become the person who goes places alone. Who adapts and accepts - and grits the teeth when others stupidly make remarks about you ('I didnt know you were with someone, I thought you were single, you never bring Ian') I went from a relief at knowing that my suspicions about him being on the spectrum were right; to watching him go off on a spree; to having him say 'poor me', to adjusting to the AS and then using it an excuse for his narcissism. Then, finally (grieving process nearly over) acceptance that, although things should have been better in the past, he would be better off using his new knowledge and understanding, to

improve his future. He is proud of being AS, he is often heard to say he didnt want to be an NT. Not quite so. He spend that early childhood dying to be part of a clique, and wishing he was like his peers. He tried to be NT and failed, and why not - he shouldnt try to fit a box just because its the so called norm. He has his own 'norm'. He says he used to see the world through a perspex sheet, he on one side, the world on the other. He uses me to dispense NT wisdom, to interpret NT world, and to deal with all things that faze him. Hence the relief of being diagnosed. He said at the time - I thought I was mad. Ian says the worst thing about being AS, is that we NT's dont appreciate the higher level of skills that such as he possesses. I say he doesnt appreciate my skills, such as when he asks me to fill in a form, do some task that offends his sensory processing, or

go to the post office because its smelly and crowded and he cant go there. So, not so unworthy, after all! The irony for me of Ian's AS is that the books state 'disorder', 'disability', 'autistic' and this is scary for us. But he is in fact a high thinker who cant do up his shoelaces. An argument we have had is the 'disorder' versus 'gifted'. Who says that AS is different - perhaps the NT's are the different ones... so dont think of yourself as being the odd one out. You are a different thinker, maybe you have OCD, maybe you have Sensory Processing issues. So, know what those are, and make them known to your partner, who can then adapt to your needs in terms of those traits. But dont let it rule your lives. I feel that the key to understanding AS is to read the help books out there, (such as Tony Attwood) and see how it fits. The Complete Asperger helped me as much as it

did Ian. Its a great thing, knowing you are not alone. Its not so good to see that there aint no going back, if one has been hoping for a change or a cure. However, for the AS partner, there is that realisation (horrible or not) that this IS how it is, and there is adaption, understanding, acknowledgement and acceptance to be had. And, a bit unreasonably, it appears that its the NT that a head start in that we can be more adaptable? (Up for debate) and by being so, can help our AS to adapt by overcoming fears and setting the scene, or even setting boundaries. It may mean that the hopes an NT partner secretly harboured that things would change, or there would be a miracle cure, or once diagnosis occurs, then a magical tranformation - AS person would say 'now I see why you get upset with me!' and then never do the same again..., well it might not be so... they may

know why you are upset as an NT, but can you prevent it happening again? Maybe not. But you can justify the rationale behind the AS thinking and actions? The way forward for me and Ian is that I know how to communicate with him now. The books helped me to see how his brain worked. That he cant 'do' social. That he will disappear for hours on end on his hobbies. That he is immersed in thought, so that if I intrude on those thoughts, he might well drone an impolite and curt reply that, if it was done by anyone else, would merit a box round the ears. That he doesnt mean what I think he means, that he needs my conversations in short bursts, and when he is ready to hear me. That he doesnt automatically concentrate on my needs so I have to ask him to listen to me when I say what I need from him. He will

forget my birthday, show no emotion at my ills, and think foremost of himself, survival being a key thing for Ian. He has got used to being concerned about himself, through years of neglect and fear. He isnt a cruel person. I have adapted to this, but not been consumed by it. What an NT partner may be feeling after diagnosis is, well it was all about him/her before, and it still is - now he/her has a reason to read up on AS, and talk about typical traits. So, the partner needs to be included. I feel that Ian and I work as a team and we both 'live with' his AS. I dont let him wallow too much, because that leads to the lovely OCD that is prevalent in some AS where he relives negative thoughts all the time. I ask him, in short bursts, to let me know how he feels, and what he is thinking. No sulking, no brooding, or lack of interaction. Ian wont talk in long sentences unless its about his hobbies, because he loses track. He might see our interaction in a different way to myself. He will say to himself, I have spoken to Judy today. (ticks box). Now I will play my computer game and then I will be hungry. (Ask Judy for food; tick). I will see it as: I got home from work knackered and angry. Needed to discuss my day. Ian says that he is going to play his game, see you later. Because he doesnt read faces and because even with being soaked with rain, missed the bus, and distressed, he wont know what to do. Now I say, later, I will tell you about my day. And that bargain is kept. So, I say exactly what I mean and how I mean it, and I negotiate. Amy might not do this yet, and she might have been feeling that in the past, she was ignored or said the wrong thing? Maybe

that isnt the case. But if she has felt excluded from your life in some ways, the diagnosis would make this even more acute - there is also the aspect that some of the books are quite alarming - the autistic badge, the demonstration of how the syndrome can be regarded as a problem, a disability to be overcome. That is frightening at first. , you sound as though you are pleased with the diagnosis and are happy to proceed, perhaps you have the same thoughts as Ian, that at last there is some sense to the way you think and feel. Amy may be stunned to find out that this is how you are, and reading about it, knowing that some of the traits you may have will need to be accepted rather than dismissed. I know that I felt subsumed by it, and somewhat diminished by being the lesser person of the outfit, yet carrying the burden as I saw it at the time, for the inadequacies (I dont

feel that way now). Appreciating the differences, understanding them, and knowing that my AS partner cannot be the social animal, although is charming at times, gauche at others, and inappropriate most of the time... I used to use his AS as an excuse for his behaviour and apologise for him. Not anymore, that was a cop out on my behalf - out of weariness and worrying 'what others think'. You sound like you are already there, in that respect, and if Amy is concerned that she has to tell others, or that the prospect of your being AS is too great, its worth remembering that you both have come this far without that knowledge. Now, with the knowledge to hand, you can move forward and have a greater understanding of what makes you think and feel the way that you do; and with that, comes the acceptance and also the enlightenment of what you two can do together. Although I still resent, and still feel weary, I know Ian a lot better now, and can anticipate what makes him sad, angry or fearful. I am proud of the way he manages his day and how his talents shine through. He isnt disabled or teminally ill, he isnt a coward, he isnt a bad person. So he will live with his AS and he carries out lots of AS style complex tasks despite the sensory, the 'stimmie' triggers and the fear of people. If other people dont like his manner or his stimmies, he can deal with it, and them, in much more rounded way than before. And so can I. Amy will no doubt be proud of you and will be wondering and worrying how this will impact on her and how she can help? Well, reading the books, knowing about AS, and knowing it is part of the whole neurodiversity and makes you one of life's thinkers, will help

her to know you are a brilliant person with a range of what may be called 'quirks' but as long as you dont stop speaking to her, and keep communicating - even by email if the words wont come - then you will be getting somewhere. So again, welcome to the AS family. Sorry for the long post. I am an NT, remember! Judy B, Scotland. From Judy Barrow To: aspires-relationships Sent:

Sunday, 15 July 2012, 19:53Subject: Re: Introduction Hello All, I guess I'll jump in now as well. My name is , short for is, and last month I didn't really know what Asperger's was. Then a friend shares an aspie quiz with me, and I scored positive. That set me off on a storm of research, then a self-diagnosis, then therapy where my therapist confirmed the diagnosis. It's been a confusing time. My partner of nine years, Amy, has been having a hard time with it as well. She's been going through a lot of anger and upset that I didn't understand. To me, the diagnosis was a relief. It hasn't been for her. She's coming around, and she's started reading some of the material I've gathered. The books I've read indicate her reaction isn't unusual; some people go through a grieving process. But

it scared me and for a while I was afraid I'd lose her because of my diagnosis. I'm less afraid now, but still a bit concerned. We just moved across the country to a new city, with new jobs, so there's been plenty of other stress as well. Well, that's probably enough for an intro. I'm glad to have found Aspires and I hope to be able to help as well as be helped here. Thanks,

[Guest guest]

I also appreciated Judy’s comments. Although I am separated from my husband now, I am still interested in understanding AS. I would like to know what you do instead of saying that he has AS, Judy. How do you handle other people’s reactions now? I felt relieved to tell some people that he had AS because I hoped it would explain some things after years of everyone wondering why he did and said such odd things. Sandy Culp

[Guest guest]

HI Sandy,

Hope you are well.

I used to whisper to others about the AS thing as a way of grovelling apology, usually after Ian had been through a place/persons like a whirlwind, upset everyone and acted like a jerk. This was in his renegade Marlon Brando stage. It was not good, because the way I did it was as an excuse, rather than as an explanation.

Nowadays, Ian will tell people about AS himself as part of the 'where I live' 'what I do' scenario when meeting folks for the first time. He has gradually ceased to use it as a 'so you had better accept me' tagline. He says it so that they know from the outset; doesnt mean he can act up, though. He still uses it as a get out of jail clause with me, but I aint having any. I know what he can and cant do, so he still gets a bawling out if he deserves one. However I am proud that he does say it as he finds that the general reaction is one of wanting to know more about AS, so he likes to appraise people of what it is and how it affects him!

If, like members of my family (gawd bless 'em), someone disses AS as a mental illness or a bad thing to have, run dear, run (saying to me 'oh dear, how do you manage') then I explain that is not how we see it. I have started a new work project recently and explained about Ian and what he does, etc, and saying that he is AS,with a touch of Tourette's to make it interesting. I also say he sings in the bath and loves to watch motor racing. All part of his makeup. Just so they know. Its not a given thing that I tell the world (buy the t shirt! see the film!) but I choose to tell workmates or social friends because its part of our lives. If they have any sense, they will look up AS or they will ask about it, but in my line of work most colleagues know a lot about Asperger's and some will come out with the absolute best line 'so, what is his brilliant talent'? Ha. Always a good starter for

Ian... :-)))))))))

Having said all that, this week Ian has totally gone off the rails as I have discovered he has lied to me about something massively important, albeit ten years ago, a big fat lie.

He has tried to explain that he didnt tell me, because he couldnt work out what to tell me at the time, because of his AS (not then diagnosed). I say its not his AS but his A88hole that is speaking, so he had better think about the consequences of what he had done at that time. Its fair to say, he wouldnt behave in that manner now, and that he is a different, calmer, and more respectful of me, person. He would definitely 'fess up. In fact, he wouldnt have got himself into a situation where it was so bad he would have to lie his way out. Progress!

However, he has had ten years to tell me the truth about what he did rather than let me find out via the good old 'friend letting it slip' route. Horrors.

He cant see it was wrong to keep it to himself (wont tell you what, not fair to Ian) but it would have shown him in a very bad light, plus he was nasty to a few other people in the process. He knows that is goolie removing behaviour. And now he thinks its even wronger to tell me all about it, because it isnt relevant! So I am left with the rumours and the hearsay from Friend Who Let It Slip. Ian is hiding under a rock at the moment.

I am sure NT's reading this might say they would be like me, wanting an explanation for what was blatant insincerity on his part, when usually he is scrupulously honest. Wanting to go over all the details, gory by gory, and extract all the nuances of What Happened and Why. However his self preservation streak is strong, and he would have known I would go nuts and may have chucked him out on his earole; so he wont ever tell me the actual details, and he probably doesnt understand the Why. And he is one for creating a happy safe place around himself, so nothing will break down his resistance to that.

Interesting, how he and I are managing such situations these days as compared to long ago. I am hard on him about it because I feel hurt (as I would have done ten years ago) but I am not going to ruin what we have, because of it (which I would have done ten years ago). So you AS will be saying - so its logical he didnt tell you, or that he doesnt want to tell you more, now!!

Ian will have to think about how to handle such situations in future. I think, dear readers, that he wont be hiding big stuff away from me again. He does rely on me a little too much, so no harm done if he has to stew over my feelings for a few days. I would cut off his sphericals but that may mean I get done for bodily harm, so will keep the pliers on the mantelpiece just to prove its on my mind :-))))

Thank you all for your kind words, by the way

Judy B, Scotland

From Judy Barrow

To: aspires-relationships Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2012, 13:23Subject: Re: Introduction () change of dynamic after diagnosis (long)

I also appreciated Judy’s comments. Although I am separated from my husband now, I am still interested in understanding AS. I would like to know what you do instead of saying that he has AS, Judy. How do you handle other people’s reactions now? I felt relieved to tell some people that he had AS because I hoped it would explain some things after years of everyone wondering why he did and said such odd things.

Sandy Culp

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy.Thanks for all your wisdom and guidancevia your example in how you are dealing with an AS partner. The selfpreservation thing you mention certainly resonates with me.One thing that may not get much airplayin discussion here is the way other family members and friends view theNT in what can be a horrible mess relationship wise between an NT & an AS.My partner often says no one believesher when she tells them what she has experienced. Both her familyand my family have distanced themselves from her and us. Even acquaintancescannot grasp what she is telling them because when they see me they seesomeone who is rather normal. I am successful in my work and havea lot of expertise. Its the relationship side that is so rocky.I wonder if anyone else on the forumhas views or experiences to share on this.On another note, you mention Ian's desire(no, need I think) to create a comfortable space around himself. Thatmeans dissembling so that there are no disruptions. My partner callsthis manipulation so that I can control my space and control how she feelsabout things. I recall having gone to some lengths due to this needto keep things placid which led to more disastrous ruptions later. Lessonlearned from those instances. It is indeed better to fess up thanhave to contend with the issue and the breaking of trust.One further note. My partner wantsme to work with a psychologist and find out what I am capable of beforeI make promises I cannot keep regarding improving things. I havecome to understand that I am angry at her because of the frustrations withcommunication. I am blaming the wrong person. So this is somethingI have decided to work on. Here is what I put together to try andwork on this. It is just good intentions so far but if I can gether support to start doing this it may help. Bear in mind that thisis against a background of me travelling a lot on business (up to 10 monthsa year away). It is quite common that there is little communicationwhile travelling on business.I have reproduced it for others whomay find it useful. You should know however that this was done asa response to her saying what am I going to do to improve things. Shefeels I am waiting for her to fix IT it still. Things I should keep in mind and reinforce1. Iwork with a psychologist to deal with the anger issues as first priority…wecan agree other things later that I need to work on2. Nofault and no blame on you if I feel frustrated – I need to own those feelingsand deal with them without making you feel responsible3. Ineed to acknowledge you are hurt and in pain. It trivialises howyou feel when I ignore that.4. Youdon’t assume that I am saying or doing things out of spite. SometimesI question things I want to understand because I don’t understand.5. Iwill try not to manipulate how you should feel.6. Iwill keep my exercise regime in place to deal with my anxiety levels. (Thishas been quite successful)7. Iwill tell you when I am feeling uncommunicative due to anxiety so you nolonger have to guess.Can we pick a time every night to lookat what is happening for us both the next day and compare notes? Myreasons for asking this are:- Iwant to avoid sabotaging things for you because I do not know what is happening- Itwill help me feel more a part of things- Itwill allow me to share what I am doing if that’s OK?Greg dx AS at 53To: " aspires-relationships " <aspires-relationships >, Date: 19/07/2012 12:48 AMSubject: Re: Re: Introduction () change of dynamic after diagnosis (long)Sent by: aspires-relationships HI Sandy,Hope you are well. I used to whisper to others about the ASthing as a way of grovelling apology, usually after Ian had been througha place/persons like a whirlwind, upset everyone and acted like a jerk.This was in his renegade Marlon Brando stage. It was not good, becausethe way I did it was as an excuse, rather than as an explanation. Nowadays, Ian will tell people about AS himselfas part of the 'where I live' 'what I do' scenario when meeting folks forthe first time. He has gradually ceased to use it as a 'so you had betteraccept me' tagline. He says it so that they know from the outset; doesntmean he can act up, though. He still uses it as a get out of jail clausewith me, but I aint having any. I know what he can and cant do, so he stillgets a bawling out if he deserves one. However I am proud that hedoes say it as he finds that the general reaction is one of wanting toknow more about AS, so he likes to appraise people of what it is and howit affects him! If, like members of my family (gawdbless 'em), someone disses AS as a mental illness or a bad thing to have,run dear, run (saying to me 'oh dear, how do you manage') then I explainthat is not how we see it. I have started a new work project recentlyand explained about Ian and what he does, etc, and saying that he is AS,witha touch of Tourette's to make it interesting. I also say he sings in thebath and loves to watch motor racing. All part of his makeup. Just so theyknow. Its not a given thing that I tell the world (buy the t shirt! seethe film!) but I choose to tell workmates or social friends because itspart of our lives. If they have any sense, they will look up AS or theywill ask about it, but in my line of work most colleagues know a lot aboutAsperger's and some will come out with the absolute best line 'so, whatis his brilliant talent'? Ha. Always a good starter for Ian... :-))))))))) Having said all that, this week Ian has totallygone off the rails as I have discovered he has lied to me about somethingmassively important, albeit ten years ago, a big fat lie. He has tried to explain that he didnt tellme, because he couldnt work out what to tell me at the time, because ofhis AS (not then diagnosed). I say its not his AS but his A88hole thatis speaking, so he had better think about the consequences of what he haddone at that time. Its fair to say, he wouldnt behave in that manner now,and that he is a different, calmer, and more respectful of me, person.He would definitely 'fess up. In fact, he wouldnt have got himself intoa situation where it was so bad he would have to lie his way out. Progress! However, he has had ten years to tell methe truth about what he did rather than let me find out via the good old'friend letting it slip' route. Horrors. He cant see it was wrong to keep it to himself(wont tell you what, not fair to Ian) but it would have shown him in avery bad light, plus he was nasty to a few other people in the process.He knows that is goolie removing behaviour. And now he thinks its evenwronger to tell me all about it, because it isnt relevant! So I am leftwith the rumours and the hearsay from Friend Who Let It Slip. Ian is hidingunder a rock at the moment. I am sure NT's reading this might say theywould be like me, wanting an explanation for what was blatant insincerityon his part, when usually he is scrupulously honest. Wanting to go overall the details, gory by gory, and extract all the nuances of What Happenedand Why. However his self preservation streak is strong, and he would haveknown I would go nuts and may have chucked him out on his earole; so hewont ever tell me the actual details, and he probably doesnt understandthe Why. And he is one for creating a happy safe place around himself,so nothing will break down his resistance to that. Interesting, how he and I are managing suchsituations these days as compared to long ago. I am hard on him about itbecause I feel hurt (as I would have done ten years ago) but I am not goingto ruin what we have, because of it (which I would have done ten yearsago). So you AS will be saying - so its logical he didnt tell you, or thathe doesnt want to tell you more, now!! Ian will have to think about how to handlesuch situations in future. I think, dear readers, that he wont be hidingbig stuff away from me again. He does rely on me a little too much, sono harm done if he has to stew over my feelings for a few days. Iwould cut off his sphericals but that may mean I get done for bodily harm,so will keep the pliers on the mantelpiece just to prove its on my mind:-)))) Thank you all for your kind words, by theway Judy B, Scotland From Judy BarrowTo: aspires-relationships Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2012, 13:23Subject: Re: Introduction () change ofdynamic after diagnosis (long)I also appreciated Judy’s comments. Although I am separated from my husband now, I am still interestedin understanding AS. I would like to know what you do instead ofsaying that he has AS, Judy. How do you handle other people’s reactionsnow? I felt relieved to tell some people that he had AS because Ihoped it would explain some things after years of everyone wondering whyhe did and said such odd things. Sandy Culp

[Guest guest]

Me again, I don't know how often my partner gets ignored or is not believed when talking to friends of family, but I do know that when we went to couples counseling, the therapist there seemed to decide the problems were mostly Amy's fault. Sessions slowly shifted from improving communication to fixing her point of view. We got some very bad advice that we didn't know was bad until more recently. Now in the light of my diagnosis, it's obvious. 

It's rather impressive how much damage a well-meaning therapist can do if they don't realize one of the clients is on the spectrum. 

 

Hi Judy.

Thanks for all your wisdom and guidance

via your example in how you are dealing with an AS partner.  The self

preservation thing you mention certainly resonates with me.

One thing that may not get much airplay

in discussion here is the way other family members and friends view the

NT in what can be a horrible mess relationship wise between an NT &

an AS.

My partner often says no one believes

her when she tells them what she has experienced.  Both her family

and my family have distanced themselves from her and us.  Even acquaintances

cannot grasp what she is telling them because when they see me they see

someone who is rather normal.  I am successful in my work and have

a lot of expertise.  Its the relationship side that is so rocky.

I wonder if anyone else on the forum

has views or experiences to share on this.

On another note, you mention Ian's desire

(no, need I think) to create a comfortable space around himself.  That

means dissembling so that there are no disruptions.  My partner calls

this manipulation so that I can control my space and control how she feels

about things.  I recall having gone to some lengths due to this need

to keep things placid which led to more disastrous ruptions later.  Lesson

learned from those instances.  It is indeed better to fess up than

have to contend with the issue and the breaking of trust.

One further note.  My partner wants

me to work with a psychologist and find out what I am capable of before

I make promises I cannot keep regarding improving things.  I have

come to understand that I am angry at her because of the frustrations with

communication.  I am blaming the wrong person.  So this is something

I have decided to work on.

Here is what I put together to try and

work on this.  It is just good intentions so far but if I can get

her support to start doing this it may help.  Bear in mind that this

is against a background of me travelling a lot on business (up to 10 months

a year away).  It is quite common that there is little communication

while travelling on business.

I have reproduced it for others who

may find it useful.  You should know however that this was done as

a response to her saying what am I going to do to improve things.  She

feels I am waiting for her to fix IT it still.  

Things I should keep in mind and reinforce

1.        I

work with a psychologist to deal with the anger issues as first priority…we

can agree other things later that I need to work on

2.        No

fault and no blame on you if I feel frustrated – I need to own those feelings

and deal with them without making you feel responsible

3.        I

need to acknowledge you are hurt and in pain.  It trivialises how

you feel when I ignore that.

4.        You

don’t assume that I am saying or doing things out of spite.  Sometimes

I question things I want to understand because I don’t understand.

5.        I

will try not to manipulate how you should feel.

6.        I

will keep my exercise regime in place to deal with my anxiety levels.  (This

has been quite successful)

7.        I

will tell you when I am feeling uncommunicative due to anxiety so you no

longer have to guess.

Can we pick a time every night to look

at what is happening for us both the next day and compare notes?  My

reasons for asking this are:

-        I

want to avoid sabotaging things for you because I do not know what is happening

-        It

will help me feel  more a part of things

-        It

will allow me to share what I am doing if that’s OK?

Greg dx AS at 53

[Guest guest]

> It's rather impressive how much damage a well-meaning therapist can do if they

don't realize one of the clients is on the spectrum.

You said it, sister!

My ex and I went through 4 marriage therapists in the 10 years before the

marriage exploded. I knew I was Aspie all along, but only the last (who

specialized in AS couples) realized x was too. I could see her method of working

with us was very different, and might have been more effective.

I say might have because even the best therapist won't help if one partner is

hiding the truth. x' infidelity, which had been going on for those 10 years,

didn't come out at all with the first three therapists, and I had to play

private investigator and reveal his secrets with the fourth. And, while she was

an excellent therapist for " normal " AS relationship issues, when you add

infidelity, sexual shame, self-denial, possible bipolar, anger management and,

right at the end, psychotic behavior, she couldn't cope. I'm not sure anyone

could.

--Liz

on the final step of the divorce -- property division. This is every bit as

nasty as everything before -- he's basically saying " what's mine is mine, what's

yours is mine (because I earned the money to buy it), we were married so long

that what was yours before the marriage is mine too, but you can have everything

I don't want -- look how generous I am! " I'm happy we wrote into the separation

agreement that not only will we hire an arbitrator for the property division,

but the arbitrator can charge us unequally.

[Guest guest]

Yeah. The therapist I found here in Seattle seems very knowledgeable, and doesn't take any form of insurance. The unexpected $100 a week has not been kind to the budget.. :/

 

> AS is still relatively new. It was not in their training or text books, as it is a specialized field. Most times we advise or mandate anger management for those with control issues. We now know anger management is useless for folks with control issues, and yet we still advise and mandate it.

>

This reminds me of therapists who aren't well-versed in OCD who advise

their OCD clients to use a technique called " thought stopping " . That

dated practice just doesn't work for OCD and can actually be

counterproductive for the client.

Unfortunately, finding a therapist who really understands conditions

like AS, OCD, etc. can be very difficult, as the most knowledgeable

providers often don't affiliate with insurance companies. So most

clients need to work with generalist providers in their HMO/PPO who may

be well intentioned, yet possibly do more harm than good. Those without

health insurance are at the mercy of whatever resources their local

clinic can provide.

Best,

~CJ

[Guest guest]

Yeah. The therapist I found here in Seattle seems very

knowledgeable, and doesn't take any form of insurance. The

unexpected $100 a week has not been kind to the budget.. :/

In my experience, $100 per session is actually pretty cheap for an

experienced provider in a large urban area.  The only providers I

know whose fees are that low are located way out in the distant

suburbs.

That being said, if you don't  have the cash to pay for treatment,

it's all pretty much unaffordable.

Best,

~CJ