Guest guest Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 this is Lori Hope. Cancer survivor and author. http://lorihope.com/helpmelive/ She has a nice smile and seems like a nice woman that cares about people. I feel bad that I insulted her, but I don't think that positive thinking and lots of love can cure Misophonia. I've tried that with no success. It's going to take a Whole lotta Love to get rid of my Misophonia!Years of wasting money on ineffective cures has made me pretty cynical about anyone that thinks they have an answer to mans ills. But I am willing to see what she has to offer anyway. I didn't realize how angry I really was about this whole thing till her email set me off!Regardless of how well intentioned the people I have gone to in the past to deal with this problem were, the fact remains that they gave me nothing. They gave me false hopeand took a lot of my time and money and left me with nothing but disappointment and resentment. Just didn't realize this till now. Funny, but opening up on this site with people who care and understand has been very therapeutic for me.Sorry if I have been dumping here lately. I just have a lot of pent up feelings about all this and am just now really feeling it. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 3:42 PM Subject: Re: I can help- are you sure that is the right person? This is Lori Lira: http://www.desertspringscounseling.com/ Both Lira and Hope have addresses on Bob Hope Drive but they are different addresses. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Hello, > >> > > > >> > > My name is Lori Hope and I saw the segment on 20/20 the other night with > >> > > people who are experiencing this problem. > >> > > > >> > > I am a Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive and have helped many people > >> > > who are experiencing this. > >> > > > >> > > With respect to other professionals who come more from the medical field > >> > > and way of thinking, I come from an alternative way of thinking (not > >> > > religion), and I can help you with this. There is nothing wrong with you! > >> > > > >> > > Within a couple of hours of explaining to you about what is going on with > >> > > you and why you are experiencing re-actions to sounds... you will walk away > >> > > with the knowledge and understanding with which to conquer these very > >> > > upsetting experiences. Without any drugs. > >> > > > >> > > I will also explain to your family what is going on and how they can > >> > > support you, so as to assist you in controlling your Mind and emotions, so > >> > > as to not go through such upsetting re-actions any longer. > >> > > > >> > > I am here to help and have helped many! I can also help those dealing > >> > > with what is being called ocd. > >> > > > >> > > If you would like to contact me to set up a meeting to discuss this, > >> > > please either call or email me. > >> > > > >> > > Thank you- > >> > > > >> > > P.S. To the young dark haired girl and the older boy who made a youtube > >> > > video who were on 20/20, I can help you! > >> > > > >> > > Lori Hope > >> > > Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive > >> > > Private Practice > >> > > 36101 Bob Hope Dr. > >> > > Rancho Mirage, CA 92270 > >> > > - phone > >> > > herecontactnow@ - email > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > = > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 , I don't think the cancer person Lori Hope is the person in question. She is not a counselor. She is a writer and editor. Regardless of who it is, you did not insult anyone. She insulted you, and also insulted everyone in the group. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Hello, > > >> > > > > >> > > My name is Lori Hope and I saw the segment on 20/20 the other night with > > >> > > people who are experiencing this problem. > > >> > > > > >> > > I am a Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive and have helped many people > > >> > > who are experiencing this. > > >> > > > > >> > > With respect to other professionals who come more from the medical field > > >> > > and way of thinking, I come from an alternative way of thinking (not > > >> > > religion), and I can help you with this. There is nothing wrong with you! > > >> > > > > >> > > Within a couple of hours of explaining to you about what is going on with > > >> > > you and why you are experiencing re-actions to sounds... you will walk away > > >> > > with the knowledge and understanding with which to conquer these very > > >> > > upsetting experiences. Without any drugs. > > >> > > > > >> > > I will also explain to your family what is going on and how they can > > >> > > support you, so as to assist you in controlling your Mind and emotions, so > > >> > > as to not go through such upsetting re-actions any longer. > > >> > > > > >> > > I am here to help and have helped many! I can also help those dealing > > >> > > with what is being called ocd. > > >> > > > > >> > > If you would like to contact me to set up a meeting to discuss this, > > >> > > please either call or email me. > > >> > > > > >> > > Thank you- > > >> > > > > >> > > P.S. To the young dark haired girl and the older boy who made a youtube > > >> > > video who were on 20/20, I can help you! > > >> > > > > >> > > Lori Hope > > >> > > Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive > > >> > > Private Practice > > >> > > 36101 Bob Hope Dr. > > >> > > Rancho Mirage, CA 92270 > > >> > > - phone > > >> > > herecontactnow@ - email > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > = > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >= > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I am sure that it is not the same Lori Hope, Lori Hope the cancer survivor is an author/journalist/public speaker. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Re: I can help- this is Lori Hope. Cancer survivor and author. http://lorihope.com/helpmelive/ She has a nice smile and seems like a nice woman that cares about people. I feel bad that I insulted her, but I don't think that positive thinking and lots of love can cure Misophonia. I've tried that with no success. It's going to take a Whole lotta Love to get rid of my Misophonia!Years of wasting money on ineffective cures has made me pretty cynical about anyone that thinks they have an answer to mans ills. But I am willing to see what she has to offer anyway. I didn't realize how angry I really was about this whole thing till her email set me off!Regardless of how well intentioned the people I have gone to in the past to deal with this problem were, the fact remains that they gave me nothing. They gave me false hopeand took a lot of my time and money and left me with nothing but disappointment and resentment. Just didn't realize this till now. Funny, but opening up on this site with people who care and understand has been very therapeutic for me.Sorry if I have been dumping here lately. I just have a lot of pent up feelings about all this and am just now really feeling it. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 3:42 PM Subject: Re: I can help- are you sure that is the right person? This is Lori Lira: http://www.desertspringscounseling.com/ Both Lira and Hope have addresses on Bob Hope Drive but they are different addresses. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Hello, > >> > > > >> > > My name is Lori Hope and I saw the segment on 20/20 the other night with > >> > > people who are experiencing this problem. > >> > > > >> > > I am a Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive and have helped many people > >> > > who are experiencing this. > >> > > > >> > > With respect to other professionals who come more from the medical field > >> > > and way of thinking, I come from an alternative way of thinking (not > >> > > religion), and I can help you with this. There is nothing wrong with you! > >> > > > >> > > Within a couple of hours of explaining to you about what is going on with > >> > > you and why you are experiencing re-actions to sounds... you will walk away > >> > > with the knowledge and understanding with which to conquer these very > >> > > upsetting experiences. Without any drugs. > >> > > > >> > > I will also explain to your family what is going on and how they can > >> > > support you, so as to assist you in controlling your Mind and emotions, so > >> > > as to not go through such upsetting re-actions any longer. > >> > > > >> > > I am here to help and have helped many! I can also help those dealing > >> > > with what is being called ocd. > >> > > > >> > > If you would like to contact me to set up a meeting to discuss this, > >> > > please either call or email me. > >> > > > >> > > Thank you- > >> > > > >> > > P.S. To the young dark haired girl and the older boy who made a youtube > >> > > video who were on 20/20, I can help you! > >> > > > >> > > Lori Hope > >> > > Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive > >> > > Private Practice > >> > > 36101 Bob Hope Dr. > >> > > Rancho Mirage, CA 92270 > >> > > - phone > >> > > herecontactnow@ - email > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > = > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 http://lorihope.com/helpmelive/The Lori Hope on this site is a cancer survivor/inspirational speaker . This has to be the one. Open up the link and see. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Re: I can help- I am sure that it is not the same Lori Hope, Lori Hope the cancer survivor is an author/journalist/public speaker. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Re: I can help- this is Lori Hope. Cancer survivor and author. http://lorihope.com/helpmelive/ She has a nice smile and seems like a nice woman that cares about people. I feel bad that I insulted her, but I don't think that positive thinking and lots of love can cure Misophonia. I've tried that with no success. It's going to take a Whole lotta Love to get rid of my Misophonia!Years of wasting money on ineffective cures has made me pretty cynical about anyone that thinks they have an answer to mans ills. But I am willing to see what she has to offer anyway. I didn't realize how angry I really was about this whole thing till her email set me off!Regardless of how well intentioned the people I have gone to in the past to deal with this problem were, the fact remains that they gave me nothing. They gave me false hopeand took a lot of my time and money and left me with nothing but disappointment and resentment. Just didn't realize this till now. Funny, but opening up on this site with people who care and understand has been very therapeutic for me.Sorry if I have been dumping here lately. I just have a lot of pent up feelings about all this and am just now really feeling it. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 3:42 PM Subject: Re: I can help- are you sure that is the right person? This is Lori Lira: http://www.desertspringscounseling.com/ Both Lira and Hope have addresses on Bob Hope Drive but they are different addresses. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Hello, > >> > > > >> > > My name is Lori Hope and I saw the segment on 20/20 the other night with > >> > > people who are experiencing this problem. > >> > > > >> > > I am a Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive and have helped many people > >> > > who are experiencing this. > >> > > > >> > > With respect to other professionals who come more from the medical field > >> > > and way of thinking, I come from an alternative way of thinking (not > >> > > religion), and I can help you with this. There is nothing wrong with you! > >> > > > >> > > Within a couple of hours of explaining to you about what is going on with > >> > > you and why you are experiencing re-actions to sounds... you will walk away > >> > > with the knowledge and understanding with which to conquer these very > >> > > upsetting experiences. Without any drugs. > >> > > > >> > > I will also explain to your family what is going on and how they can > >> > > support you, so as to assist you in controlling your Mind and emotions, so > >> > > as to not go through such upsetting re-actions any longer. > >> > > > >> > > I am here to help and have helped many! I can also help those dealing > >> > > with what is being called ocd. > >> > > > >> > > If you would like to contact me to set up a meeting to discuss this, > >> > > please either call or email me. > >> > > > >> > > Thank you- > >> > > > >> > > P.S. To the young dark haired girl and the older boy who made a youtube > >> > > video who were on 20/20, I can help you! > >> > > > >> > > Lori Hope > >> > > Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive > >> > > Private Practice > >> > > 36101 Bob Hope Dr. > >> > > Rancho Mirage, CA 92270 > >> > > - phone > >> > > herecontactnow@ - email > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > = > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I looked, but I just don't see the connection. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 7:41 PM Subject: Re: Re: I can help- http://lorihope.com/helpmelive/The Lori Hope on this site is a cancer survivor/inspirational speaker . This has to be the one. Open up the link and see. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Re: I can help- I am sure that it is not the same Lori Hope, Lori Hope the cancer survivor is an author/journalist/public speaker. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Re: I can help- this is Lori Hope. Cancer survivor and author. http://lorihope.com/helpmelive/ She has a nice smile and seems like a nice woman that cares about people. I feel bad that I insulted her, but I don't think that positive thinking and lots of love can cure Misophonia. I've tried that with no success. It's going to take a Whole lotta Love to get rid of my Misophonia!Years of wasting money on ineffective cures has made me pretty cynical about anyone that thinks they have an answer to mans ills. But I am willing to see what she has to offer anyway. I didn't realize how angry I really was about this whole thing till her email set me off!Regardless of how well intentioned the people I have gone to in the past to deal with this problem were, the fact remains that they gave me nothing. They gave me false hopeand took a lot of my time and money and left me with nothing but disappointment and resentment. Just didn't realize this till now. Funny, but opening up on this site with people who care and understand has been very therapeutic for me.Sorry if I have been dumping here lately. I just have a lot of pent up feelings about all this and am just now really feeling it. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 3:42 PM Subject: Re: I can help- are you sure that is the right person? This is Lori Lira: http://www.desertspringscounseling.com/ Both Lira and Hope have addresses on Bob Hope Drive but they are different addresses. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Hello, > >> > > > >> > > My name is Lori Hope and I saw the segment on 20/20 the other night with > >> > > people who are experiencing this problem. > >> > > > >> > > I am a Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive and have helped many people > >> > > who are experiencing this. > >> > > > >> > > With respect to other professionals who come more from the medical field > >> > > and way of thinking, I come from an alternative way of thinking (not > >> > > religion), and I can help you with this. There is nothing wrong with you! > >> > > > >> > > Within a couple of hours of explaining to you about what is going on with > >> > > you and why you are experiencing re-actions to sounds... you will walk away > >> > > with the knowledge and understanding with which to conquer these very > >> > > upsetting experiences. Without any drugs. > >> > > > >> > > I will also explain to your family what is going on and how they can > >> > > support you, so as to assist you in controlling your Mind and emotions, so > >> > > as to not go through such upsetting re-actions any longer. > >> > > > >> > > I am here to help and have helped many! I can also help those dealing > >> > > with what is being called ocd. > >> > > > >> > > If you would like to contact me to set up a meeting to discuss this, > >> > > please either call or email me. > >> > > > >> > > Thank you- > >> > > > >> > > P.S. To the young dark haired girl and the older boy who made a youtube > >> > > video who were on 20/20, I can help you! > >> > > > >> > > Lori Hope > >> > > Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive > >> > > Private Practice > >> > > 36101 Bob Hope Dr. > >> > > Rancho Mirage, CA 92270 > >> > > - phone > >> > > herecontactnow@ - email > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > = > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2012 Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 This is the only Lori Hope that I can find. Might there be another Lori Hope that is also an author/cancer survivor and inspirational speaker?I can't find on the site where she lives, but the one that contacted this group lives in Ranch Mirage, CA. I saved her phone number and I am going to call her.I don't plan to use her services but I am just curious to see if she is the same one and what she has to say. But I insulted her so will have to apologize first. I do that a lot!At this point NFB is my approach, just paid for 20 more hours. There is Hope out there! (no pun intended:))Mike To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 8:57 PM Subject: Re: Re: I can help- I looked, but I just don't see the connection. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 7:41 PM Subject: Re: Re: I can help- http://lorihope.com/helpmelive/The Lori Hope on this site is a cancer survivor/inspirational speaker . This has to be the one. Open up the link and see. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Re: I can help- I am sure that it is not the same Lori Hope, Lori Hope the cancer survivor is an author/journalist/public speaker. To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Re: I can help- this is Lori Hope. Cancer survivor and author. http://lorihope.com/helpmelive/ She has a nice smile and seems like a nice woman that cares about people. I feel bad that I insulted her, but I don't think that positive thinking and lots of love can cure Misophonia. I've tried that with no success. It's going to take a Whole lotta Love to get rid of my Misophonia!Years of wasting money on ineffective cures has made me pretty cynical about anyone that thinks they have an answer to mans ills. But I am willing to see what she has to offer anyway. I didn't realize how angry I really was about this whole thing till her email set me off!Regardless of how well intentioned the people I have gone to in the past to deal with this problem were, the fact remains that they gave me nothing. They gave me false hopeand took a lot of my time and money and left me with nothing but disappointment and resentment. Just didn't realize this till now. Funny, but opening up on this site with people who care and understand has been very therapeutic for me.Sorry if I have been dumping here lately. I just have a lot of pent up feelings about all this and am just now really feeling it. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 3:42 PM Subject: Re: I can help- are you sure that is the right person? This is Lori Lira: http://www.desertspringscounseling.com/ Both Lira and Hope have addresses on Bob Hope Drive but they are different addresses. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Hello, > >> > > > >> > > My name is Lori Hope and I saw the segment on 20/20 the other night with > >> > > people who are experiencing this problem. > >> > > > >> > > I am a Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive and have helped many people > >> > > who are experiencing this. > >> > > > >> > > With respect to other professionals who come more from the medical field > >> > > and way of thinking, I come from an alternative way of thinking (not > >> > > religion), and I can help you with this. There is nothing wrong with you! > >> > > > >> > > Within a couple of hours of explaining to you about what is going on with > >> > > you and why you are experiencing re-actions to sounds... you will walk away > >> > > with the knowledge and understanding with which to conquer these very > >> > > upsetting experiences. Without any drugs. > >> > > > >> > > I will also explain to your family what is going on and how they can > >> > > support you, so as to assist you in controlling your Mind and emotions, so > >> > > as to not go through such upsetting re-actions any longer. > >> > > > >> > > I am here to help and have helped many! I can also help those dealing > >> > > with what is being called ocd. > >> > > > >> > > If you would like to contact me to set up a meeting to discuss this, > >> > > please either call or email me. > >> > > > >> > > Thank you- > >> > > > >> > > P.S. To the young dark haired girl and the older boy who made a youtube > >> > > video who were on 20/20, I can help you! > >> > > > >> > > Lori Hope > >> > > Psychologist and Spiritual Intuitive > >> > > Private Practice > >> > > 36101 Bob Hope Dr. > >> > > Rancho Mirage, CA 92270 > >> > > - phone > >> > > herecontactnow@ - email > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > = > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2012 Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 I recently discovered I have Misophonia when a friend sent me a link to http://www.hyperacusis.org/page9.html. I'd never heard of it, but have definitely had it since adolescence! It looks like someone snuck inside my head, took a look around, and then wrote down what they saw on that web page So I'd be as excited as the rest of you if somebody had something that worked. And I wouldn't want *over*skepticism to rob me of a chance for life to be different. At the same time, I'm a physician. More specifically, a naturopathic physician. [And nope, I'm not about to offer a "cure" though I wish like hell that, for my own sake, I had one!] But as a naturopath, I'm used to members of the conventional medical community dismissing what I do, even though, like them, I am a doctor/physician licensed by the state, and went to an accredited medical school. They don't know or understand what I do, but that doesn't mean it isn't effective. I've helped a lot of people with Irritable Bowel Syndrome or Heartburn… things like that… for which conventional medicine says there's no cure. It just isn't true. I've seen people heal and get their lives back, lots of times (not all the time, of course; some cases are easier or harder than others). So from that dual perspective, I gotta say, I cannot imagine this Lori Hope person is the real deal: a) None of us can find her on the internet. I personally have wasted too much time looking. She doesn't write "PhD" after her name. If I was offering a "cure" I sure as heck would not omit my credentials, nor the website at which someone could check me out to verify I'm legit. And by the way, in the jurisdiction of California, one must be a PhD to use the term "psychologist." [again, the time-wasting, heh J] c) As a clinician, I can verify that is entirely possible to describe one's general clinical approach, without giving up one iota of patient-confidential information. I do it all the time, including, in a limited form, on my web site. Anyway, I doubt this particular Lori character is worth anyone's further waste of time, but also I agree with the folks cautious of over-skepticism. Many blessings to you all, and thank you for being here and having shown me that it's not just that I'm crazy! Dr. Deborah Epstein,Seattle, WA > > >> > > All, please be advised this user has been removed from the group. You can> > > still contact them directly should you wish.> > > > > > Kind regards> > > > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2012 Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 Welcome Dr. Deb, Caution must be used on the hyperacusis site(s): there's been something of a war in the past years over who " owns " 4S/Misophonia and some of the exchanges have been ugly. Some hyperacusis " experts " claim that 4S/Miso is just hyperacusis but we know that the rage we feel is something more and very different than sounds simply feeling too loud. I just want to give you a heads up that if you mention miso on the hyperacusis site, you might get attacked or belittled. Thank you for your candor. Godd to have you on our side > > > > > > > > All, please be advised this user has been removed from the group. > You can > > > > still contact them directly should you wish. > > > > > > > > Kind regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I googled her and to me she looked like a scam artist. I agree with removing these supposed self-professed "professionals" from the group. Anyone who would pay for help from someone out of the blue boasting suspicious credentials (spiritual healer really? Go to your priest or pastor if you want spiritual help) and cures for a problem that no legitimate medical person has found a cure for is not thinking straight and will easily be scammed. Don't be so intent in trying anything to help the problem that you leave yourself vulnerable. The people in charge of this group did right in protecting the group from a possible predator. It is not up to them to verify anyone's claims or credentials, and remember that anyone can look a name up on the internet of someone legitimate and then profess to be them and have you hire and send them money. Any professional that is listed on here should be well-researched and found to be legitimate, then they can be put on the list of doctors that can help on the 4-S website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 That is the best advice regarding this issue that I have heard so far. I almost got scammed twice on Craigslist. I caught on just in time. I hate not being able to trust people, but that is just the way the world is. We just need to be cautious. I like how the groupthink worked here. We need as a group to scrutinize anyone that comes on this site offering a cure. This is a tough nut, I have spent a small fortune over the years looking for a cure, and most of them were well intentioned, scrupulous and highly credentialed professionals. But non, could help me with this. At this point I am investing my time and money with NFB, which appears to have been the only methodology so far that has worked with Misophonia. Mike To: "Soundsensitivity " <Soundsensitivity > Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:43 AM Subject: Re: I can help- I googled her and to me she looked like a scam artist. I agree with removing these supposed self-professed "professionals" from the group. Anyone who would pay for help from someone out of the blue boasting suspicious credentials (spiritual healer really? Go to your priest or pastor if you want spiritual help) and cures for a problem that no legitimate medical person has found a cure for is not thinking straight and will easily be scammed. Don't be so intent in trying anything to help the problem that you leave yourself vulnerable. The people in charge of this group did right in protecting the group from a possible predator. It is not up to them to verify anyone's claims or credentials, and remember that anyone can look a name up on the internet of someone legitimate and then profess to be them and have you hire and send them money. Any professional that is listed on here should be well-researched and found to be legitimate, then they can be put on the list of doctors that can help on the 4-S website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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