Guest guest Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Dear MI feel saddened by your posting. As someone who has been in relationship with 3 AS men and now believe I had an AS father and mother I wold urge you to consider working on understanding why you are attracted to your partner. I ended up estranged from my father and divorced from 2 AS men. With my 3 partner we have been together 22 years and have only just got an AS diagnosis. I have often felt like leaving him but know I need to understand why I am drawn to these men. My current partner and I are now working together to try and deal with the issues that arise for us. I am lucky that he is loving and cares about me but my children will have nothing to do with him. He has driven most of my friends away. I now live 3 lives. My life with him where we are committed to try and live well together, my life visiting my 3 grown up children and grand children - they won't come to my house and a life with my friends pursuing interests which my husband doesn't share and giving me some respite. I am not confident that I would be attracted to a non AS man and am working on making this relationship as good as it can be. Apart from the fact that it would be financial disaster for me if we split up as we are both in our 60s I know I need to work on understanding myself as well as my husband. I do urge you to seek counselling for yourself. SueSent from my iPhone M: Greetings: It sounds like life is over whelming you at this moment. I have had this list for a long time and your story is very similar of "some" NT spouses. Some options are reading books and articles geared towards NT spouses. Another option is to seek counseling or support for YOU. A good counselor or therapist can help you sort out the issues and concentrate on YOU and not your spouse. Where do you see yourself in 6 months? What are your dreams and ambition? Do you see yourself growing old with him? There are a zillion questions to ask to help you rethink your life at the present moment. You cannot change your partner, all you can do it change yourself. He is a big boy and responsible for himself and his behavior as much as you are in this relationship. Maybe you should take a break and concentrate on YOU for a while. What do you want out of this relationship? What needs do you need to have met to continue on? It is NOT selfish to say, "It is all about me". Do you see yourself in a care taker role? Some do, and are happy in this role. What does "M" want? I guess the real question is, what do YOU want out of this relationship and what is non-negotiable? Think about this and make a list. It will help you to set healthy boundaries for yourself and partner. He should do the same. Just my 2 cents worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Hi Sue and , Well said! M had previously asked her partner to move out due to the same kinds of behaviors. When they got back together again his behavior improved for a time. said (prophetically) that unfortunately sometimes the tendency is to slip back into the undesirable behaviors, and apparently this has happened. I gather that M's partner is economically dependent on her, at least in the sense that he probably could not afford to live comfortably if not for her, so even if he is miserable too, he is unlikely to leave unless prodded. I also thought about the sort of history that we sometimes have that pre-disposes us to to pick, or let ourselves be picked by, people with emotional and/or social difficulties. Often it is rooted in our families of origin, where such behaviors became normalized for us. We may have grown up with a physically and/or mentally ill sibling or parent. There may be childhood PTSD in our backgrounds. All these factors and more prime us for taking on a parental/caregiving role as adults. M, you are still a young woman and a smart woman and you need to see a good professional who will help you re-focus on YOUR self and YOUR needs. Your partner has acknowledged he may have AS. But AS or no AS, the issue here is the *behavior.* Sometimes an AS label can serve as an excuse for behaviors which otherwise would *not* be tolerated. In that case, the discovery of AS can work *against* progress, instead of aiding in it. It all depends how much work both partners are willing to do. One partner can't do it all alone. - Helen > > > M: Greetings: > > > > It sounds like life is over whelming you at this moment. I have had this list for a long time and your story is very similar of " some " NT spouses. Some options are reading books and articles geared towards NT spouses. Another option is to seek counseling or support for YOU. A good counselor or therapist can help you sort out the issues and concentrate on YOU and not your spouse. Where do you see yourself in 6 months? What are your dreams and ambition? Do you see yourself growing old with him? There are a zillion questions to ask to help you rethink your life at the present moment. You cannot change your partner, all you can do it change yourself. He is a big boy and responsible for himself and his behavior as much as you are in this relationship. Maybe you should take a break and concentrate on YOU for a while. What do you want out of this relationship? What needs do you need to have met to continue on? It is NOT selfish to say, " It is all about me " . Do you see yourself in a care taker role? Some do, and are happy in this role. What does " M " want? > > > > I guess the real question is, what do YOU want out of this relationship and what is non-negotiable? Think about this and make a list. It will help you to set healthy boundaries for yourself and partner. He should do the same. > > > > Just my 2 cents worth. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Hey and thanks for your reply. I got it the same night I posted my message and though I was too tired and confused to really reply then, it did a lot of good, just knowing someone had read it, knowing someone out there knew I existed, understood my pain. So thank you. I have a psychologist I'm seeing but she's in the public healthcare system and my allotted visits run out soon (I have 1 or 2 left). I explained this to her today on your advice and it helped. Mostly I need coping mechanisms for when things become too much, I have to find a way to get my mind off things, or else everything becomes too dramatic! I can't wait to leave on vacation and come back replenished to a boyfriend who will probably miss me more than he realizes yet. I'll have a clear mind and will have stocked up on fun and " me " time with my very best friend in the world and I think it will do a WORLD of good! Thanks again for being there when I needed it the most. M. > > > > Hi all, > > > > It's been an exhausting day and I just needed to tell someone, so I came here. My suspected AS boyfriend and I have periods of harmony and periods of near-constant fighting, and lately it's been bad rather than good. I'm feeling desperate and drained. I feel like he has no initiative whatsoever, like he doesn't care about me, like he doesn't mind if we're complete strangers to one another. > > > > He's always anxious around me and imagines bad intentions to everything I say and do. It seems like he always jumps to conclusions and these conclusions are always bad. Like everything I'm saying always has some underlying criticism. And of course we end up fighting because he becomes extremely defensive and I'm sure you know how it goes. > > > > I'm leaving for three weeks on vacation next Sunday and I'll have very little time to myself. Despite this, he spent the whole weekend playing video games on his own, and he gave me a hard time both days when I asked him to do something with me - either keep me company while I was hanging the laundry on the balcony on a beautiful sunny day, or just come to the store with me to buy a bag of dirt for my tomato plants. Simple things, really. Just a way to spend some time with my lover since I won't see him for so long. But nothing will convince him to drop his f*******g PS3 controller. > > > > Sometimes I get so desperate, I can't leave him for some reason, and he always makes me feel responsible when I mention breaking up and so somehow I just want to fix things, but this is getting so draining at certain moments that I picture vivid images in my head of jumping from my balcony, blowing my brains out, whatever. There are moment I swear if I had an easy way out I would just end it, but I know I'm to much of a coward to take my own life. Seems like there's no way out of my misery. > > > > Sorry if this sounds pathetic or whatever but I'm really drained. Thanks for reading... > > > > M. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 Hi Judy, Wow, thanks a million times for your lengthy, clever, thoughtful reply. Most everything you mentioned hit the nail right on the head and it helped me gain perspective. There is one question you asked but never answered yourself: Why do you put yourself through it, what keeps you there, what do you get from it? Sometimes I ask myself just that, and I often don't really find an answer. Then out of the blue when I'm feeling really calm and at peace I'll just be myself around him, and when I'm like that he responds so well and is so sweet that I can't let go. I can't let go of the hope that these moments will grow and the rest will fade, that we will adjust to each other so well that the bliss I feel in those small times will gradually become our reality most of the time. I will always be very emotional and get upset at the drop of a hat, and he will always be distant and withdrawn, but the moments when these characteristics bring us to a crisis might come fewer and farther between, who knows. My boyfriend, Graham, isn't a severe case of AS. For example, his sensory issues are mostly auditory so some loud music will really get to him. He also jumps when I touch him, which I used to take really personal, and he never explained to me why. One time I was reading about AS and someone mentioned warning their partner that they were going to touch them, and I thought, why not? So I started asking him, " Can I touch your tuft? " (He's a pretty hairy guy and he has this little tuft of hair that always grows out of the neck of his shirt, it's the most adorable thing.) He usually smiles and says yes, and I pet him and he giggles. That solves that. A good example of how knowing his triggers can really help find a solution. I now usually warn him before leaning in for a hug or kiss, unless we're at home where he feels more relaxed, and even then I always move slowly so he can anticipate it. He grew up in a family where nothing was ever said outright. His mom did a lot of " No I'm fine " while looking really sad, and his dad did a lot of " Look, you upset your mother " . His dad passed away years ago and I've never met him, but from what Graham tells me, he sounds like he was on the spectrum. Always retreating to his office for long hours, very emotionally detached, obsessed with math, etc. So Graham grew up in a place where emotions were very muffled, uncertain, and used to create guilt. Criticism was always very subtle and conveyed in sub-text. So even though I'm about as subtle as a train wreck, even though I'm straightforward and in-your-face, he always thinks there is a ton of criticism behind every little thing I say, when in reality, if I have criticism, don't worry, you'll get the memo. But he can't help that. The " he will never just surprise you with something sweet " really gets to me. I even made a pact with him, wrote down ideas on papers, made him a cute little box where I put these ideas, and asked him to pick a paper out once in a while and do what's on there. This box has been there for months and we've fought about it a lot and nothing ever happened. I don't know how to get what I need from him if he won't try surprising me with surprises I find myself! But what you said about knowing what he's capable of really made sense. He's said before that even though I might think the things written on there are easy, they aren't to him. Maybe I should start with something easier. Like buying me a kinder surprise or something. Something we came up with this weekend after the big crisis, was that instead of asking him if he wants to do something, I should express it differently when it matters to me, something like " It would make me really happy if... " You suggested something very similar. He says he wants me to be happy, so if I say that, he should respond well. I'll make sure to try this approach and see where it brings us. Being gentle all the time is hard for me when I'm feeling so lonely and sad and let down. I grew up with a Borderline Personality Disorder mom, and though all the psychologists I've seen agree that I don't fit the bill for a BPD diagnosis myself, I have inherited a lot of the characteristics, especially in my romantic relationships. My emotions are very intense and I have abandonment issues, so you can imagine how he acts as a constant trigger for all my own buttons. A big part of this I have to own up to and deal with myself. I imagine I can grow, but I'll need a network outside of my relationship to reflect and grow. The issues we have might give me food for thought, but the reflection will most likely come from outside. And I want to thank you personally and sincerely for providing me with some new pieces to my particular puzzle. M. > > hi, veryspecial >  > Your feelings of desperation are natural, if my assumption is correct and your man is someone who has negative thoughts and low self esteem? >  > May I explain that I live with Ian, a late diagnosed AS, who suffered from misunderstandings and negativity as a child. He has the common co-morbidity of OCD, whereby he has negative thoughts, and repetitive behaviours that are known as 'stimmies' (stimulus) that are comforting rituals. > Ian will spend hours on the computer (I work with children and families who have tourette syndrome and AS, and this is a common retreat for them). Ian does this as a retreat from the world, when he thinks he cannot cope with the rigours of communal life. He cant make decisions. He can be intellectual on the things he knows about, but anything else, is off the radar. > > I do all the practical things in the house, and make the decisions, and earn the money. Ian has a chip (large plank) on his shoulder about past hurts, and relives those. >  > Mostly, though, Ian behaves exactly as your man does. He needs to be praised, given confidence, and have actions explained to him, before he will attempt to take up any tasks in the house, or automatically help me. I learned long ago that he has whole hours where he cant 'hear' me because his mind is very busy, and that I have to approach him when he is ready. I say 'Ian, I will need to speak to you at sometime about things that need doing today'. He will say 'I can talk about that now' or 'I cant talk about that now'. Sounds simple, doesnt it? But that negotiation strategy has taken us many years to reach. >  > Ian was bullied as a child and confused by his AS and lost all confidence in doing things that he thought was right, and in the end just did the things that he knows and trusts. That means computer games, hobbies, and going into another room for hours at a time. Initially I would lose my rag and ask him what he thought he was doing. Now I say, it would be nice to have dinner together, and what would you like to do tonight? >  > I never take Ian to social occasions either, unless he chooses to go. Ian has spent his life being fearful of getting things wrong, which is why he doesnt respond to day to day practicalities, he would rather hide and do the things he cares to do. So social occasions, even funerals, are a no no. He has the propensity to say the wrong thing, too, using his AS scripts, where he has heard people being successful as social interaction and copied them. However, he doesnt always slot these scripts into the right context, and when he gets that wrong, it pushes the hurt even deeper. >  > Your man may be using lots of smokescreen techniques to hide the fact that he is confused by neurotypical behaviours, that he doesnt 'get it' because he doesnt understand all that is said (and they often dont 'hear' because the words dont make sense, or they are concentrating on something else, totally immersed). >  > Ian asks for short sentences, clearly said, and no shouting. I respond with calm sentences, and reinforcement of how pleased I would be if.... and I have learned that if Ian cant do something - too fearful, too cackhanded, or its a sensory issue like smelly, loud, too bright - then I know to let that go. >  > In terms of keeping you company whilst you hang out the laundry - Ian would say to me 'why?'. Because he would think it illogical to watch that being done, whilst I would think it sweet and heartwarming. I have asked Ian to help me hang out washing, and he says he cant, because he might get it wrong. As it happens, he did help me (lots of praise from me, and he was very chuffed) but he did get it wrong, hanging the items up by the middle and pegging them at the arms. I didnt say a word. Since then he has pegged out washing for me, but wouldnt dream of keeping me company whilst either I or he do it. He thinks that isnt necessary. >  > I, too, have been at the pit of despair, still do, because the whole 'detached' bit becomes a burden. If, however, you dont take it personally, he isnt taking the mickey out of you, really, he isnt. He might need to know more about your feelings, and have it calmly spelt out 'I would really love it if....' 'even if you dont think its much, it means the world to me'.... 'thank you so much, you are great'. He wont know instinctively to do things for you. Hard Lesson One. He wont appreciate being nagged or probed. Hard Lesson Two. He wont understand what he is doing 'wrong' and instead will retreat to fantasy computer games, where he does achieve things and he understands the instructions. Hard Lesson Three. >  > You dont come with instructions or a controller, so you need to explain to him, gently, that you love him, and how he can make you feel loved too. Its not about saying words by rote, or just being in the same house. You need to expect him to be fearful of NT world, but not have the guts to explain that to you. Its about pride. >  > He isnt being any different from many an AS man (some would say any man, but AS have the edge on Missing The Obvious) >  > Please dont think this is your fault, or be cowed down because you are not getting through. When an AS man gets it, he is the most loyal and loving person. But you wont get the bunch of flowers as a surprise - not unless you asked him to go and get them. >  > There are ways of asking and of making him aware, and you also need to have some time to remember that you are worthy, lovable and that you have loads to offer. And to love yourself. I remember several times, wondering what was the point of my life and suffering day in, day out, with unrelenting 'huh?' 'are you STILL talking' and 'I am enjoying this, whats the matter with you'. Pick your battles. Pick your time to talk. Ask him about what it is he likes about you, and ask him to think about how he can show his love. He might not realise helping you to overcome your tiredness, your daily grind, or just anticipating when you need him, is showing love. He may never be great at anticipation. I have to explain things to Ian. But after 14 years he now greets me when I come home (and yes, I have the ninetyfive bags of shopping) even if he doesnt help with the bags, he thanks me for going to the shops. >  > Ian doesnt go to shops because of the bright lights and the noise. His sensory overload leads to much muttering, fear, pacing and phobias. Check this out with your man? It seemed as though he was a lazy sod, but it transpired (after much complaining on my part) that he hates and fears crowded places. So such a trip is horrible for him. Honesty really pays off. We read up about AS after Ian's diagnosis - which came as a great relief, as before that he knew he was different and had been classified as mad when he was younger. He isnt mad, or bad, as he thought. >  > Those kind of negative feelings mean that with Ian, he puts himself first as a matter of survival. Its been hard for him to 'include' me. I have made myself included by living well, looking after myself and giving myself strength, then using that as a starting point for him and I. Put yourself first, and get all the support you need from friends and relatives. Take time out, and your vacation will do some good. May I suggest you dont use it as a escape from something you find untenable, because if that is what you feel, you may never win the battle? >  > He needs to hear from you, even in a letter or email, what you would like from him. In short sentences and short paragraphs. Many AS take information that is written down, rather than spoken. Long sentences spoken, or incoherent (as when we are really angry and upset) may go over his head, as he wont pick up all the words. >  > What do you want from him? What do you expect? How can you help him know what to do? He wont know unless you think it all out and ask. If he cant do the things you ask, he will have to explain to you how he can do other things instead. And the only way you will come to a consensus is to know what his capabilities are. Ian can do short, tiny bits of practical work (I painted all the house, he did one wall, very well, but couldnt do more than that). It is odd that they can do computer games, complex tasks and puzzles for hours on end (progressing along), but not see you struggling with household chores. >  > I now say to Ian, I hate doing this (he understands the concept of hating doing something) or that, and if he says the same, we agree to do this together - such as cleaning the bathroom. Subject to his sensory issues, of course. >  > I dont feel that your man is being deliberately harmful, the situation is so familiar to me from a few years ago, and even now to a lesser extent. The change has been my attitude to him, in that I dont see him as my saviour, or my romantic hero. Neither do I see him as a person who can escape from being in a partnership with me. >  > My compromise has been to exclude him from the things that upset him or cause him to meltdown, or where he feels hopeless or inept. His compromise is that he has to listen to me when I ask for support, even if he cant do anything else for me (and by the way, he hates illness as it makes him feel scared and inadequate - so I have to allow for his not looking after me in a crisis). >  > Ian is supportive of my skills, he tells people he is proud of me, and he never puts me down in public. Four years ago, he did put me down in public because he wanted to look like a fun guy at my expense, and he also bigged himself up before even mentioning me, and he ignored me most of the time when others were there. This was because he didnt want to look like he was reliant on me. >  > He IS reliant on me. He accepts that is a good thing. He accepts that he doesnt have to be Alpha Male to please me. So, now, I say nice things about him, and he trusts me that I love him even if he doesnt help me when I am fixing the roof on a shoogly ladder by myself. Adjustment - I can manage myself, and I am appreciative of my own worth. Learn to love how you are, and be proud of yourself. You arent a victim here. You deserve this vacation, and he might miss you although he might also not show it very well. >  > Try to be positive - he has negative thoughts (it seems) and is self absorbed. He doesnt need you to nursemaid him through that. He needs you to tell him how he can feel good about himself, and part of that is feeling good because he is nurturing you. I am afraid he may never do this on his own, and he may say 'well, she is going on a vacation, well that must be what she wants because she is doing it' he wont think 'dang, she is going away, what ever can I do?'. Spell it out in black and white, and whatever colours. You are going away because it has happened that way, but you will miss and think of him all the time. Will he miss you? Of course. But will he manage? He will play his games, his refuge, until you come back. >  > If you want him to be different, you have to explain that to him. If he doesnt understand, explain it to him. If he still persists in the cold front, decide how you want to proceed. But dont blame yourself (or even him), its how he sees things, as apposed to how you see things. Yin and Yang. You dont speak AS. He doesnt speak NT. Absence might make the heart grow fonder, but in my Ian's case, it means he starves (no food provider) and doesnt wash so absence makes his beard grow longer. But he is always happiest when I am in the vicinity. If Ian can demonstrate his caring for me after being much the same, your man might do the same. Its how you evolve to accept what you say to each other in terms of expressing love and care. >  > Dont do anything until your holiday is over, but do try to relax. You are a brilliant person trying very hard. Be content with yourself and try not to take all the burden. Only you can judge if the negotiation and compromise is worth the effort. Compare the good days with the bad, what was different? And dont subsume yourself for him, you will only turn into a drudge. Always remember who you were when he first met and fell in love with you. And keep that person intact. >  > Thinking of you and be strong >  > Judy B, Hardbitten NT,  living with Ian, late diagnosed, damaged AS. Scotland. >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  > > > ________________________________ > > To: aspires-relationships > Sent: Monday, 11 June 2012, 2:33 > Subject: Just feeling a bit desperate > > Hi all, > > It's been an exhausting day and I just needed to tell someone, so I came here. My suspected AS boyfriend and I have periods of harmony and periods of near-constant fighting, and lately it's been bad rather than good. I'm feeling desperate and drained. I feel like he has no initiative whatsoever, like he doesn't care about me, like he doesn't mind if we're complete strangers to one another. > > He's always anxious around me and imagines bad intentions to everything I say and do. It seems like he always jumps to conclusions and these conclusions are always bad. Like everything I'm saying always has some underlying criticism. And of course we end up fighting because he becomes extremely defensive and I'm sure you know how it goes. > > I'm leaving for three weeks on vacation next Sunday and I'll have very little time to myself. Despite this, he spent the whole weekend playing video games on his own, and he gave me a hard time both days when I asked him to do something with me - either keep me company while I was hanging the laundry on the balcony on a beautiful sunny day, or just come to the store with me to buy a bag of dirt for my tomato plants. Simple things, really. Just a way to spend some time with my lover since I won't see him for so long. But nothing will convince him to drop his f*******g PS3 controller. > > Sometimes I get so desperate, I can't leave him for some reason, and he always makes me feel responsible when I mention breaking up and so somehow I just want to fix things, but this is getting so draining at certain moments that I picture vivid images in my head of jumping from my balcony, blowing my brains out, whatever. There are moment I swear if I had an easy way out I would just end it, but I know I'm to much of a coward to take my own life. Seems like there's no way out of my misery. > > Sorry if this sounds pathetic or whatever but I'm really drained. Thanks for reading... > > M. > > > > ------------------------------------ > >       " We each have our own way of living in the world, together we are like a symphony. > Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony > It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial. > We all contribute to the song of life. " >            ...Sondra > > We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference. > > ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list. > Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author. >    Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission. >       When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at: >      http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm >         ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER >          http://www.aspires-relationships.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hi M., There's also a compatibility factor that comes into play, and it is independent of all the other issues, including family of origin and autism spectrum issues. Do you both share some of the same passions for things in life? Are your beliefs similar? Are there things you enjoy doing together, things that you both find invigorating, make you happy and replenish you? This past summer there were discussions on this board about compatibility and shared interests. Certainly to people don't have to be exactly alike, or like all the same things or do *everything* together. However, having complementary temperaments and goals in life is the prescription for being able to get past small differences and annoyances, and longevity in a relationship. But if you are basically living as a single person with a room-mate who has " exclusive rights " .. a room mate with whom you have constant disagreements that leave you drained all the time, while that could last for a long time, too, you will both be miserable and at least one of of you is likely to fall victim to depression. From the sounds of your recent post, that will be you. You said " I am accepting there will always be crisis. " I would not accept that. There is more to life than this. cyber hugs! Helen > > Hi Helen, > > Yes, this weekend's crisis was similar to the behaviour I brought up when I asked him to move out. I have to say that this has changed a lot over time, though. He hasn't been nearly as obsessive with his work as he used to back then. Last weekend was bad timing: his mother came to visit for three days from Wednesday to Friday, making him all stressed out and drained, and then we had dinner with my family on Saturday night. It's kind of silly that I didn't expect for him to need recharge AND preparation time alone with his machine, but I was stuck in my own needs, the need to feel that my boyfriend cares that I'm leaving, that he won't see me for three weeks, the need to feel that he wants to spend time with me. > > Don't worry, I've seen many psychologists. As I mentioned earlier, the one I'm seeing now is in the public healthcare system and my allotted time has run out so I'll be on my own again in a few weeks. I know where my own part of this comes from, but it doesn't make it easier to deal with my strong emotions when they overwhelm me. I'm not really the bigger person then, I can't give myself all the reasons why he can't be available for me, because I'm flooded with the strength of my sadness and my need. It doesn't make for the best conflict resolution tactics. > > I am accepting that there will always be crises. There will always be slips and our respective predispositions to certains types of screw-ups are there to stay. But I hope we can come up with methods, ways, tricks to make things run smoother. Maybe eventually I can learn to master my abandonment issues and not interpret everything he does as him not loving me; and maybe eventually he can feel at ease enough around me that he will let go of his anxiety more and more and be the sweet guy he is when all is well. > > M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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