Re: Sorry..Kathe in CA,,, and a

[Guest guest]

Kathy in CA: Thanks for your kind words back awhile ago, and I am

sorry I did'nt respond. My computer had been dieing a slow death and

finally died. Being the spoilt Dell person I am nothing but a new

Dell would do, so I have been computerless and driving the mail man

nuts, anyways did'nt want you to think I was ignoring you...hugs

and : Thanks to you both on your words of wisdom on SS

a: Once again congrats, and you sound like you are really

enjoying being a working woman again....MATH???? YUCK....I can

understand your dilemna.....maybe you can convince to take it

for you.....LOL.....

Lynn (MEMOM): Congratulations Grandma....

Tess: Sorry to hear your down my friend, and you know I will pray

the gastric bypass will go through for you this time...also keep all

body parts crossed :>}.....

I have been reading the posts on carpal tunnel and find it all very

interesting.... I know you are the expert and I will agree that

it is a condition on it's own, but.....it also is a symptom of

scleroderma....and is listed in the SD literature as a

symptom....anyways to answer the question that was asked and forgive

me if this is long winded...I had bilateral carpal tunnel release

surgery and 6 months out by EMG it was worse than before the

surgery, after another Emg they suggested double crush syndrome and

preposed surgery on cervical discs. I also had patriotic skin...red,

white , and blue...blue, blue....actually a purple at times....my

diagnosis started as probable MS....until a swift family practice

doc said I duuno looks like a rheumatic disease to me....after much

testing and alot of head scratching the diagnosis was scleroderma d

the reason the carpal tunnel surgery did'nt work was because it

was'nt carpal tunnel to begin with, but the neurologist treated what

to him by all testing paramaters was carpal tunnel...scleroderma

shares alot of RA's symptoms, also the swollen RED hands. I have

alot of joint damage, not all SD patients have joint damage, but if

not they usually have organ damage....so eeny,

meeney,minny...moe...anyways I have foundposts on the carpal tunnel

very interesting, and hope you get to the bottom of your

troubles.hope I did'nt bore everyone to tears......hugs to all Kathi

in OK

[Guest guest]

A new Dell, Kathi! My dream come true; however, the ish part of me

has vowed to use my Dell laptop until it dies. Five years and one month

and counting.

I am very willing to establish and man a math tutoring hotline for a

and anyone else. Might as well. The kids are keeping me in practice at

three different levels. There are such cool sites out there. If only

those were available when I was in school.

About the carpal tunnel, check this out from the second edition of

" Systemic Sclerosis " by Clements and Furst (2004):

" With thickening of the skin and subcutaneous tissues in SSc, one might

expect that patients with SSc would be predisposed to development of

symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome as a result of thickening of the

transverse carpal ligament or fibrosis around the flexor tendons in the

carpal tunnel. Paradoxically, symptoms of numbness in the median nerve

distribution in patients with SSc are relatively infrequent compared

with patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Only 9 patients of the total

series of 110 patients with SSc (8%) have required a surgical carpal

tunnel release. Interestingly, two patients experienced carpal

tunnel-like symptoms owing to sclerodermatous involvement of the

antebrachial fascia in the distal forearm proximal to the carpal tunnel.

Carpal tunnel release has been effective in all patients with SSc in

relieving their symptoms of numbness and paresthesias. "

I'll tell you where to go!

Mayo Clinic in Rochester

http://www.mayoclinic.org/rochester

s Hopkins Medicine

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org

[ ] RE: Sorry..Kathe in CA,,, and a

> Kathy in CA: Thanks for your kind words back awhile ago, and I am

> sorry I did'nt respond. My computer had been dieing a slow death and

> finally died. Being the spoilt Dell person I am nothing but a new

> Dell would do, so I have been computerless and driving the mail man

> nuts, anyways did'nt want you to think I was ignoring you...hugs

>

> and : Thanks to you both on your words of wisdom on SS

>

> a: Once again congrats, and you sound like you are really

> enjoying being a working woman again....MATH???? YUCK....I can

> understand your dilemna.....maybe you can convince to take it

> for you.....LOL.....

>

> Lynn (MEMOM): Congratulations Grandma....

>

> Tess: Sorry to hear your down my friend, and you know I will pray

> the gastric bypass will go through for you this time...also keep all

> body parts crossed :>}.....

>

> I have been reading the posts on carpal tunnel and find it all very

> interesting.... I know you are the expert and I will agree that

> it is a condition on it's own, but.....it also is a symptom of

> scleroderma....and is listed in the SD literature as a

> symptom....anyways to answer the question that was asked and forgive

> me if this is long winded...I had bilateral carpal tunnel release

> surgery and 6 months out by EMG it was worse than before the

> surgery, after another Emg they suggested double crush syndrome and

> preposed surgery on cervical discs. I also had patriotic skin...red,

> white , and blue...blue, blue....actually a purple at times....my

> diagnosis started as probable MS....until a swift family practice

> doc said I duuno looks like a rheumatic disease to me....after much

> testing and alot of head scratching the diagnosis was scleroderma d

> the reason the carpal tunnel surgery did'nt work was because it

> was'nt carpal tunnel to begin with, but the neurologist treated what

> to him by all testing paramaters was carpal tunnel...scleroderma

> shares alot of RA's symptoms, also the swollen RED hands. I have

> alot of joint damage, not all SD patients have joint damage, but if

> not they usually have organ damage....so eeny,

> meeney,minny...moe...anyways I have foundposts on the carpal tunnel

> very interesting, and hope you get to the bottom of your

> troubles.hope I did'nt bore everyone to tears......hugs to all Kathi

> in OK

[Guest guest]

Well my Dell was 6+, so I feel I got my money out of it, the

hard drive was NON repairable....I will keep my fingers crossed

yours lives for as long as you want....LOL

Now all I have to do is learn this ridiculous XP...LOL

I am sure you are up in math with your kids, I can surely wait for

Marissa to be at algerbra age....

OK I have never really argued with you..LOL, but I have to

disagree....EVERYTHING I have read, and believe me I searched like

crazy agreed with the CTS and SD, when my rhemuy first said this I

wanted to prove him wrong, but all the literature from the SD

Foundation also backed him up, and you can always find rebuttal type

of info but the consensus was SD and carpal tunnel do coexist quite

frequently....

Scleroderma can also cause joint inflammation (pain, redness and/or

swelling) which is usually treated with NSAIDS or other anti-

inflammatories. Carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) is often an initial

symptom of scleroderma (usually along with Raynaud's), preceding the

development of other symptoms by months or

yearshttp://www.sclero.org/medical/symptoms/skeletal/a-to-

z.html#inflammation

Sp I think I will agree to disagree on this subject.....

the Hazelnut in OK Kathi

> A new Dell, Kathi! My dream come true; however, the ish part

of me

> has vowed to use my Dell laptop until it dies. Five years and one

month

> and counting.

>

> I am very willing to establish and man a math tutoring hotline for

a

> and anyone else. Might as well. The kids are keeping me in

practice at

> three different levels. There are such cool sites out there. If

only

> those were available when I was in school.

>

> About the carpal tunnel, check this out from the second edition of

> " Systemic Sclerosis " by Clements and Furst (2004):

>

> " With thickening of the skin and subcutaneous tissues in SSc, one

might

> expect that patients with SSc would be predisposed to development

of

> symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome as a result of thickening of the

> transverse carpal ligament or fibrosis around the flexor tendons

in the

> carpal tunnel. Paradoxically, symptoms of numbness in the median

nerve

> distribution in patients with SSc are relatively infrequent

compared

> with patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Only 9 patients of the

total

> series of 110 patients with SSc (8%) have required a surgical

carpal

> tunnel release. Interestingly, two patients experienced carpal

> tunnel-like symptoms owing to sclerodermatous involvement of the

> antebrachial fascia in the distal forearm proximal to the carpal

tunnel.

> Carpal tunnel release has been effective in all patients with SSc

in

> relieving their symptoms of numbness and paresthesias. "

>

>

>

> I'll tell you where to go!

>

> Mayo Clinic in Rochester

> http://www.mayoclinic.org/rochester

>

> s Hopkins Medicine

> http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org

>

>

> [ ] RE: Sorry..Kathe in CA,,, and

a

>

>

> > Kathy in CA: Thanks for your kind words back awhile ago, and I am

> > sorry I did'nt respond. My computer had been dieing a slow death

and

> > finally died. Being the spoilt Dell person I am nothing but a new

> > Dell would do, so I have been computerless and driving the mail

man

> > nuts, anyways did'nt want you to think I was ignoring you...hugs

> >

> > and : Thanks to you both on your words of wisdom on

SS

> >

> > a: Once again congrats, and you sound like you are really

> > enjoying being a working woman again....MATH???? YUCK....I can

> > understand your dilemna.....maybe you can convince to take

it

> > for you.....LOL.....

> >

> > Lynn (MEMOM): Congratulations Grandma....

> >

> > Tess: Sorry to hear your down my friend, and you know I will pray

> > the gastric bypass will go through for you this time...also keep

all

> > body parts crossed :>}.....

> >

> > I have been reading the posts on carpal tunnel and find it all

very

> > interesting.... I know you are the expert and I will agree

that

> > it is a condition on it's own, but.....it also is a symptom of

> > scleroderma....and is listed in the SD literature as a

> > symptom....anyways to answer the question that was asked and

forgive

> > me if this is long winded...I had bilateral carpal tunnel release

> > surgery and 6 months out by EMG it was worse than before the

> > surgery, after another Emg they suggested double crush syndrome

and

> > preposed surgery on cervical discs. I also had patriotic

skin...red,

> > white , and blue...blue, blue....actually a purple at times....my

> > diagnosis started as probable MS....until a swift family practice

> > doc said I duuno looks like a rheumatic disease to me....after

much

> > testing and alot of head scratching the diagnosis was

scleroderma d

> > the reason the carpal tunnel surgery did'nt work was because it

> > was'nt carpal tunnel to begin with, but the neurologist treated

what

> > to him by all testing paramaters was carpal tunnel...scleroderma

> > shares alot of RA's symptoms, also the swollen RED hands. I have

> > alot of joint damage, not all SD patients have joint damage, but

if

> > not they usually have organ damage....so eeny,

> > meeney,minny...moe...anyways I have foundposts on the carpal

tunnel

> > very interesting, and hope you get to the bottom of your

> > troubles.hope I did'nt bore everyone to tears......hugs to all

Kathi

> > in OK

[Guest guest]

Kathi,

Thank you I am really enjoying all this.

Lynn MeMom

Kathi wrote:

> Kathy in CA: Thanks for your kind words back awhile ago, and I am

> sorry I did'nt respond. My computer had been dieing a slow death and

> finally died. Being the spoilt Dell person I am nothing but a new

> Dell would do, so I have been computerless and driving the mail man

> nuts, anyways did'nt want you to think I was ignoring you...hugs

>

> and : Thanks to you both on your words of wisdom on SS

>

> a: Once again congrats, and you sound like you are really

> enjoying being a working woman again....MATH???? YUCK....I can

> understand your dilemna.....maybe you can convince to take it

> for you.....LOL.....

>

> Lynn (MEMOM): Congratulations Grandma....

>

> Tess: Sorry to hear your down my friend, and you know I will pray

> the gastric bypass will go through for you this time...also keep all

> body parts crossed :>}.....

>

> I have been reading the posts on carpal tunnel and find it all very

> interesting.... I know you are the expert and I will agree that

> it is a condition on it's own, but.....it also is a symptom of

> scleroderma....and is listed in the SD literature as a

> symptom....anyways to answer the question that was asked and forgive

> me if this is long winded...I had bilateral carpal tunnel release

> surgery and 6 months out by EMG it was worse than before the

> surgery, after another Emg they suggested double crush syndrome and

> preposed surgery on cervical discs. I also had patriotic skin...red,

> white , and blue...blue, blue....actually a purple at times....my

> diagnosis started as probable MS....until a swift family practice

> doc said I duuno looks like a rheumatic disease to me....after much

> testing and alot of head scratching the diagnosis was scleroderma d

> the reason the carpal tunnel surgery did'nt work was because it

> was'nt carpal tunnel to begin with, but the neurologist treated what

> to him by all testing paramaters was carpal tunnel...scleroderma

> shares alot of RA's symptoms, also the swollen RED hands. I have

> alot of joint damage, not all SD patients have joint damage, but if

> not they usually have organ damage....so eeny,

> meeney,minny...moe...anyways I have foundposts on the carpal tunnel

> very interesting, and hope you get to the bottom of your

> troubles.hope I did'nt bore everyone to tears......hugs to all Kathi

> in OK

>

>

[Guest guest]

Naw, Kathi, we're not really disagreeing. Besides, if you have a gripe

with that information, you'll have to take it up with Clements and

Furst, LOL.

They aren't saying that carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) doesn't occur in

systemic sclerosis, just that it occurs less frequently than one might

expect knowing the nature of the disease.

Most of what I've read indicates that, if CTS occurs, it is in early

disease. After the edematous phase passes, the CTS often resolves on its

own, not unlike the case of a pregnant woman who develops carpal tunnel

symptoms for a period before and after delivery that later spontaneously

disappear.

So maybe that's where some of the discrepancy in the description of the

coexistence of CTS and systemic sclerosis comes in - CTS occurs but

doesn't often persist into the later stages.

Here's something related to all of this from the Scleroderma Foundation

by Jimenez, M.D., Director of The Scleroderma Center and Dorrance

H. Hamilton Professor of Medicine at Jefferson University,

Philadelphia, Pa. (originally published in Scleroderma Foundation

Newsline, Vol. 2, No. 3 [summer-Fall 1999])::

" Carpal tunnel syndrome is occasionally one of the earliest

manifestations of the disease and usually appears during the edematous

phase (swelling and puffiness). It appears to be related to swelling of

the connective tissues surrounding the carpal ligaments resulting in

compression of the nerves that traverse this tight channel on their way

to the hands.

The symptoms usually improve spontaneously when the disease progresses

from the edematous stage to the sclerotic or fibrotic stage and surgery

is not necessary. "

http://www.scleroderma.org/medical/other_articles/Jimenez_1999.htm

Interestingly, too, from the University of Pittsburgh where they have

keep an amazing databank of systemic sclerosis cases and have followed

them for a period of many years, they report clinical characteristics of

223 University of Pittsburgh patients with diffuse cutaneous systemic

sclerosis evaluated at <3 years and then again later (6+ years):

Puffy fingers

Early (<3 years) 62%

Late (6+ years) 27%

Carpal tunnel syndrome

Early (<3 years) 19%

Late (6+ years) <1%

For 59 patients with limited cutaneous systemic sclerosis the figures

were:

Puffy fingers

Early (<5 years) 68%

Late (10+ years) 52%

Carpal tunnel syndrome

Early (<5 years) 15%

Late (10+ years) 2%

Believe it or not! I won't take it personally.

I'll tell you where to go!

Mayo Clinic in Rochester

http://www.mayoclinic.org/rochester

s Hopkins Medicine

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org

[ ] Re: Sorry..Kathe in CA,,, and a

> Well my Dell was 6+, so I feel I got my money out of it, the

> hard drive was NON repairable....I will keep my fingers crossed

> yours lives for as long as you want....LOL

> Now all I have to do is learn this ridiculous XP...LOL

> I am sure you are up in math with your kids, I can surely wait for

> Marissa to be at algerbra age....

> OK I have never really argued with you..LOL, but I have to

> disagree....EVERYTHING I have read, and believe me I searched like

> crazy agreed with the CTS and SD, when my rhemuy first said this I

> wanted to prove him wrong, but all the literature from the SD

> Foundation also backed him up, and you can always find rebuttal type

> of info but the consensus was SD and carpal tunnel do coexist quite

> frequently....

>

>

> Scleroderma can also cause joint inflammation (pain, redness and/or

> swelling) which is usually treated with NSAIDS or other anti-

> inflammatories. Carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) is often an initial

> symptom of scleroderma (usually along with Raynaud's), preceding the

> development of other symptoms by months or

> yearshttp://www.sclero.org/medical/symptoms/skeletal/a-to-

> z.html#inflammation

>

> Sp I think I will agree to disagree on this subject.....

> the Hazelnut in OK Kathi

>

>

>

>

> > A new Dell, Kathi! My dream come true; however, the ish part

> of me

> > has vowed to use my Dell laptop until it dies. Five years and one

> month

> > and counting.

> >

> > I am very willing to establish and man a math tutoring hotline for

> a

> > and anyone else. Might as well. The kids are keeping me in

> practice at

> > three different levels. There are such cool sites out there. If

> only

> > those were available when I was in school.

> >

> > About the carpal tunnel, check this out from the second edition of

> > " Systemic Sclerosis " by Clements and Furst (2004):

> >

> > " With thickening of the skin and subcutaneous tissues in SSc, one

> might

> > expect that patients with SSc would be predisposed to development

> of

> > symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome as a result of thickening of the

> > transverse carpal ligament or fibrosis around the flexor tendons

> in the

> > carpal tunnel. Paradoxically, symptoms of numbness in the median

> nerve

> > distribution in patients with SSc are relatively infrequent

> compared

> > with patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Only 9 patients of the

> total

> > series of 110 patients with SSc (8%) have required a surgical

> carpal

> > tunnel release. Interestingly, two patients experienced carpal

> > tunnel-like symptoms owing to sclerodermatous involvement of the

> > antebrachial fascia in the distal forearm proximal to the carpal

> tunnel.

> > Carpal tunnel release has been effective in all patients with SSc

> in

> > relieving their symptoms of numbness and paresthesias. "

> >

> >