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There really isn't a specific time of month that is better than any other.

The fibroids won't grow back because their blood supply is immediately cut

off. Many women are in the midst of horrific bleeding episodes when this

procedure is performed--so being on your period isn't an issue. I developed

a nasty yeast infection the day before mine was done and was told in the

hospital that that was common. . .it would not deter the procedure. I also

had sinusitus and laryngitis and was running a mild fever. . .none of which

stopped the procedure! I will say that a catheter for the bladder was

inserted to hold urine during the procedure and, with a yeast infection,

that was somewhat uncomfortable. Some women have told me that they feel

nothing with the catheter -- others have found it painful. Overall, none of

these things affect the performance of the procedure itself. Because they

are using a very tiny catheter to go in through an artery in the

groin--where leg meets body--none of your current conditions (excessive

bleeding, menstrual cycle, yeast infections, etc.) matter. Hope this

answers your question. :)

carla

mailto:cdionne@...

>Could anyone please tell me if there is a better time of the month to have

surgery for uterine fibroids. I know with breast surgery this is important

na and wondered if it was also important with this (i.e. perhaps they would

not grow back as rapidly depending on the time of surgery) I need to choose

a date tomorrow so if anyone has any information on this, I would greatly

appreciate it.

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  • 7 months later...

>In your hypothetical, there is no similar trigger " requiring " an initial

>surgical intervention which can be expanded to include the removal of the

>testicles, as a prophalactic cancer treatment.

>--

How about an enlarged prostate? Those cause guys to pee a lot

at night, definitely are a cancer risk...

______________________________________________________

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Carla -

To be fair, you need to add some real medical condition that either the male

comes in complaining of (as we do with bleeding, abdominal bulk, backaches,

etc.) or is discovered by the physician on exam (as some asymptomatic fibroids

are) for which routine treatment is some form of surgical intervention which -

while she's in there - might as well include removing

the testicles.

I am not aware of gyns randomly advocating removal of the ovaries unless they

are also recommending a hysterectomy to treat a real medical condition. (Or, for

that matter, I'm not aware of gyns randomly advocating even a partial

hysterectomy absent some diagnosed condition) [Not to say that hysterectomy is a

good solution, or that asymptomatic fibroids necessarily need treatment, but it

is a treatment for a real condition.]

In your hypothetical, there is no similar trigger " requiring " an initial

surgical intervention which can be expanded to include the removal of the

testicles, as a prophalactic cancer treatment.

--

>As many of you already know, I am currently working on a women's health book

>and I have come up with a research element that desperately needs responses

>from men for inclusion in one of the sections. If you are a woman and have

>received this email, please forward it to any men that you know. Here goes.

>

>Let's pretend you're visiting your doctor for your annual check up. Okay,

>okay -- I know guys only go in for a check up every decade or so but PRETEND

>it's your ANNUAL check up. Okay?

>

>You're sitting on the edge of the examining table in your skivvies (and

>maybe your socks) and the doctor (let's say it's a female just for the heck

>of it -- most women's docs are men so let's reverse it for the guys for the

>FULL effect of the question) anyway, your doctor tells you to drop your

>shorts and then proceeds to do an exam of your genitals. When done, she

>tells you to pull up your shorts and then turns to make some notes on your

>chart. Then, in all seriousness, she turns back to you and says the

>following:

>

> " You know Doe Patient, I've reviewed your medical history and it's my

>recommendation that you should undergo a procedure called HISterectomy --

>it's a procedure to surgically remove your testicles. "

>

>What do you do or say at this point?

>

>The doctor proceeds with the discussion by saying the following:

>

> " Well, I think you should know that you have a 75% chance of getting

>prostate cancer sometime in the next 10 years and we should really consider

>removing your testicles. "

>

>Now what do you do or say?

>

>The doctor proceeds:

>

> " You don't really plan on having any more children--right? So let's do this

>and remove the risk of cancer entirely. You do want to be around for your

>children as they're growing up, don't you? "

>

>Now what do you do or say?

>

> " Doe Patient, a 75% chance of getting prostate cancer is very serious.

>I can schedule you for surgery within a week or two. Let's go ahead and set

>this up, okay? "

>

>Now what do you do or say?

>

> " Doe Patient, you don't need to worry about the loss of testosterone --

>we have this terrific new patch you can wear that will give your body all

>the testosterone you need. Let's do this, okay? Believe me, your libido

>will NOT be impacted by this procedure. "

>

>Now what do you do or say?

>

>Please send your responses to cdionne@...

>

>All respondents' identities will be kept confidential but copyright of all

>responses will be retained by me, Carla Dionne, and may be anonymously

>presented within the text of my book entitled: sex, lies, and uterine

>fibroids (scheduled for publication with Avery Publishing sometime in the

>year 2000) with no remuneration going to any parties who choose to respond

>to these research questions. :)

>

>Please feel free to forward this email to any men that you have reason to

>believe might respond. The more responses I get, the better!

>

>Thank you.

>

>Carla Dionne

>mailto:cdionne@...

>http://www.uterinefibroids.com

>member, /list/uterinefibroids

>

>p.s. To put this in context for you so that you can have a better

>understanding of WHY I am asking these questions of men:

>

>Nearly 600,000 women undergo hysterectomy annually. It has been speculated

>that as many as 90% of all hysterectomies-removals of the uterus--are

>performed for BENIGN conditions and are, in fact, treatable with methods

>that do not involve removal of the uterus at all. Only 8% of all

>hysterectomies are due to cancer.

>

>In addition, over 60% of the women who undergo hysterectomy have their

>ovaries removed at the same time. (That's about 360,00 women or so

>annually.) The ovaries perform an equivalent hormonal function of the

>testicles in a man.

>

>Why do so many women readily allow this castration to happen to them?

>Because of one word: cancer. Doctors tell women that ovarian cancer -- an

>incredibly deadly cancer -- can be avoided entirely if they allow for the

>removal of their ovaries.

>

>What they DON'T tell women is astounding:

>

>1. Less than 1.8% of all women will acquire ovarian cancer during their

>lifetime.

>2. If you undergo a hysterectomy--removal of the uterus--your risk factor

>is cut in half.

>3. Ovarian cancer can occur in the pelvic region even without the presence

>of the ovaries -- if you're destined to get this type of cancer, removing

>the ovaries does not, necessarily, protect you.

>4. That removal of the ovaries means instant surgical menopause and a need

>for hormone replacement therapy (HRT) for the remainder of their

>lives--without HRT, a woman's overall risk of acquiring heart disease and

>osteoporosis increases significantly. (Heart disease is the number one

>killer of women in this nation.)

>

>During the last 20 years in the United States, over 12 million women have

>opted to have a hysterectomy under the guidance and advice of a

>gynecologist. Out of those 12 million, roughly 7.5 million women have

>consented to the removal of their ovaries at the same time.

>

>So, compare how you responded with how women have responded under similar

>circumstances with significantly smaller statistical risk factors and ask

>yourself one question: Why?

>

>When women say " Not tonight dear, I have a headache. " Could they possibly

>mean " Not tonight dear, I have no libido and will get nothing out of this

>sexual encounter anyway so let's not. Okay? "

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/uterinefibroids

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

>

Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal

news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com

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Share on other sites

Carla -

To be fair, you need to add some real medical condition that either the male

comes in complaining of (as we do with bleeding, abdominal bulk, backaches,

etc.) or is discovered by the physician on exam (as some asymptomatic fibroids

are) for which routine treatment is some form of surgical intervention which -

while she's in there - might as well include removing

the testicles.

I am not aware of gyns randomly advocating removal of the ovaries unless they

are also recommending a hysterectomy to treat a real medical condition. (Or, for

that matter, I'm not aware of gyns randomly advocating even a partial

hysterectomy absent some diagnosed condition) [Not to say that hysterectomy is a

good solution, or that asymptomatic fibroids necessarily need treatment, but it

is a treatment for a real condition.]

In your hypothetical, there is no similar trigger " requiring " an initial

surgical intervention which can be expanded to include the removal of the

testicles, as a prophalactic cancer treatment.

--

>As many of you already know, I am currently working on a women's health book

>and I have come up with a research element that desperately needs responses

>from men for inclusion in one of the sections. If you are a woman and have

>received this email, please forward it to any men that you know. Here goes.

>

>Let's pretend you're visiting your doctor for your annual check up. Okay,

>okay -- I know guys only go in for a check up every decade or so but PRETEND

>it's your ANNUAL check up. Okay?

>

>You're sitting on the edge of the examining table in your skivvies (and

>maybe your socks) and the doctor (let's say it's a female just for the heck

>of it -- most women's docs are men so let's reverse it for the guys for the

>FULL effect of the question) anyway, your doctor tells you to drop your

>shorts and then proceeds to do an exam of your genitals. When done, she

>tells you to pull up your shorts and then turns to make some notes on your

>chart. Then, in all seriousness, she turns back to you and says the

>following:

>

> " You know Doe Patient, I've reviewed your medical history and it's my

>recommendation that you should undergo a procedure called HISterectomy --

>it's a procedure to surgically remove your testicles. "

>

>What do you do or say at this point?

>

>The doctor proceeds with the discussion by saying the following:

>

> " Well, I think you should know that you have a 75% chance of getting

>prostate cancer sometime in the next 10 years and we should really consider

>removing your testicles. "

>

>Now what do you do or say?

>

>The doctor proceeds:

>

> " You don't really plan on having any more children--right? So let's do this

>and remove the risk of cancer entirely. You do want to be around for your

>children as they're growing up, don't you? "

>

>Now what do you do or say?

>

> " Doe Patient, a 75% chance of getting prostate cancer is very serious.

>I can schedule you for surgery within a week or two. Let's go ahead and set

>this up, okay? "

>

>Now what do you do or say?

>

> " Doe Patient, you don't need to worry about the loss of testosterone --

>we have this terrific new patch you can wear that will give your body all

>the testosterone you need. Let's do this, okay? Believe me, your libido

>will NOT be impacted by this procedure. "

>

>Now what do you do or say?

>

>Please send your responses to cdionne@...

>

>All respondents' identities will be kept confidential but copyright of all

>responses will be retained by me, Carla Dionne, and may be anonymously

>presented within the text of my book entitled: sex, lies, and uterine

>fibroids (scheduled for publication with Avery Publishing sometime in the

>year 2000) with no remuneration going to any parties who choose to respond

>to these research questions. :)

>

>Please feel free to forward this email to any men that you have reason to

>believe might respond. The more responses I get, the better!

>

>Thank you.

>

>Carla Dionne

>mailto:cdionne@...

>http://www.uterinefibroids.com

>member, /list/uterinefibroids

>

>p.s. To put this in context for you so that you can have a better

>understanding of WHY I am asking these questions of men:

>

>Nearly 600,000 women undergo hysterectomy annually. It has been speculated

>that as many as 90% of all hysterectomies-removals of the uterus--are

>performed for BENIGN conditions and are, in fact, treatable with methods

>that do not involve removal of the uterus at all. Only 8% of all

>hysterectomies are due to cancer.

>

>In addition, over 60% of the women who undergo hysterectomy have their

>ovaries removed at the same time. (That's about 360,00 women or so

>annually.) The ovaries perform an equivalent hormonal function of the

>testicles in a man.

>

>Why do so many women readily allow this castration to happen to them?

>Because of one word: cancer. Doctors tell women that ovarian cancer -- an

>incredibly deadly cancer -- can be avoided entirely if they allow for the

>removal of their ovaries.

>

>What they DON'T tell women is astounding:

>

>1. Less than 1.8% of all women will acquire ovarian cancer during their

>lifetime.

>2. If you undergo a hysterectomy--removal of the uterus--your risk factor

>is cut in half.

>3. Ovarian cancer can occur in the pelvic region even without the presence

>of the ovaries -- if you're destined to get this type of cancer, removing

>the ovaries does not, necessarily, protect you.

>4. That removal of the ovaries means instant surgical menopause and a need

>for hormone replacement therapy (HRT) for the remainder of their

>lives--without HRT, a woman's overall risk of acquiring heart disease and

>osteoporosis increases significantly. (Heart disease is the number one

>killer of women in this nation.)

>

>During the last 20 years in the United States, over 12 million women have

>opted to have a hysterectomy under the guidance and advice of a

>gynecologist. Out of those 12 million, roughly 7.5 million women have

>consented to the removal of their ovaries at the same time.

>

>So, compare how you responded with how women have responded under similar

>circumstances with significantly smaller statistical risk factors and ask

>yourself one question: Why?

>

>When women say " Not tonight dear, I have a headache. " Could they possibly

>mean " Not tonight dear, I have no libido and will get nothing out of this

>sexual encounter anyway so let's not. Okay? "

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>eGroups.com home: /group/uterinefibroids

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

>

Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and legal

news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at http://www.justicemail.com

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Share on other sites

Husband here-

1. The medical world (and other fields) is one of assessing options based on

probabilities, rewards and risks. Unfortunately there is never enough data

or time to consider all the factors or have complete knowledge. The MD

assumes certain weightings and recommends a course of action.

2. Hey, in the patients option he may be wrong. That is why we have the

protocol of second or third options.

3. However, is there a argument for women may think differently on the

call - of course - then just tell me " him " how you weigh the factors. But

the implications that the doctor is an ass and enjoys removing a whole pile

of stuff ? hmmm, not fair.

Re: No Subject

> Carla -

>

> To be fair, you need to add some real medical condition that either the

male comes in complaining of (as we do with bleeding, abdominal bulk,

backaches, etc.) or is discovered by the physician on exam (as some

asymptomatic fibroids are) for which routine treatment is some form of

surgical intervention which - while she's in there - might as well include

removing

> the testicles.

>

> I am not aware of gyns randomly advocating removal of the ovaries unless

they are also recommending a hysterectomy to treat a real medical condition.

(Or, for that matter, I'm not aware of gyns randomly advocating even a

partial hysterectomy absent some diagnosed condition) [Not to say that

hysterectomy is a good solution, or that asymptomatic fibroids necessarily

need treatment, but it is a treatment for a real condition.]

>

> In your hypothetical, there is no similar trigger " requiring " an initial

surgical intervention which can be expanded to include the removal of the

testicles, as a prophalactic cancer treatment.

> --

>

>

> >As many of you already know, I am currently working on a women's health

book

> >and I have come up with a research element that desperately needs

responses

> >from men for inclusion in one of the sections. If you are a woman and

have

> >received this email, please forward it to any men that you know. Here

goes.

> >

> >Let's pretend you're visiting your doctor for your annual check up.

Okay,

> >okay -- I know guys only go in for a check up every decade or so but

PRETEND

> >it's your ANNUAL check up. Okay?

> >

> >You're sitting on the edge of the examining table in your skivvies (and

> >maybe your socks) and the doctor (let's say it's a female just for the

heck

> >of it -- most women's docs are men so let's reverse it for the guys for

the

> >FULL effect of the question) anyway, your doctor tells you to drop your

> >shorts and then proceeds to do an exam of your genitals. When done, she

> >tells you to pull up your shorts and then turns to make some notes on

your

> >chart. Then, in all seriousness, she turns back to you and says the

> >following:

> >

> > " You know Doe Patient, I've reviewed your medical history and it's

my

> >recommendation that you should undergo a procedure called HISterectomy --

> >it's a procedure to surgically remove your testicles. "

> >

> >What do you do or say at this point?

> >

> >The doctor proceeds with the discussion by saying the following:

> >

> > " Well, I think you should know that you have a 75% chance of getting

> >prostate cancer sometime in the next 10 years and we should really

consider

> >removing your testicles. "

> >

> >Now what do you do or say?

> >

> >The doctor proceeds:

> >

> > " You don't really plan on having any more children--right? So let's do

this

> >and remove the risk of cancer entirely. You do want to be around for

your

> >children as they're growing up, don't you? "

> >

> >Now what do you do or say?

> >

> > " Doe Patient, a 75% chance of getting prostate cancer is very

serious.

> >I can schedule you for surgery within a week or two. Let's go ahead and

set

> >this up, okay? "

> >

> >Now what do you do or say?

> >

> > " Doe Patient, you don't need to worry about the loss of

testosterone --

> >we have this terrific new patch you can wear that will give your body all

> >the testosterone you need. Let's do this, okay? Believe me, your libido

> >will NOT be impacted by this procedure. "

> >

> >Now what do you do or say?

> >

> >Please send your responses to cdionne@...

> >

> >All respondents' identities will be kept confidential but copyright of

all

> >responses will be retained by me, Carla Dionne, and may be anonymously

> >presented within the text of my book entitled: sex, lies, and uterine

> >fibroids (scheduled for publication with Avery Publishing sometime in the

> >year 2000) with no remuneration going to any parties who choose to

respond

> >to these research questions. :)

> >

> >Please feel free to forward this email to any men that you have reason to

> >believe might respond. The more responses I get, the better!

> >

> >Thank you.

> >

> >Carla Dionne

> >mailto:cdionne@...

> >http://www.uterinefibroids.com

> >member, /list/uterinefibroids

> >

> >p.s. To put this in context for you so that you can have a better

> >understanding of WHY I am asking these questions of men:

> >

> >Nearly 600,000 women undergo hysterectomy annually. It has been

speculated

> >that as many as 90% of all hysterectomies-removals of the uterus--are

> >performed for BENIGN conditions and are, in fact, treatable with methods

> >that do not involve removal of the uterus at all. Only 8% of all

> >hysterectomies are due to cancer.

> >

> >In addition, over 60% of the women who undergo hysterectomy have their

> >ovaries removed at the same time. (That's about 360,00 women or so

> >annually.) The ovaries perform an equivalent hormonal function of the

> >testicles in a man.

> >

> >Why do so many women readily allow this castration to happen to them?

> >Because of one word: cancer. Doctors tell women that ovarian cancer --

an

> >incredibly deadly cancer -- can be avoided entirely if they allow for the

> >removal of their ovaries.

> >

> >What they DON'T tell women is astounding:

> >

> >1. Less than 1.8% of all women will acquire ovarian cancer during their

> >lifetime.

> >2. If you undergo a hysterectomy--removal of the uterus--your risk

factor

> >is cut in half.

> >3. Ovarian cancer can occur in the pelvic region even without the

presence

> >of the ovaries -- if you're destined to get this type of cancer, removing

> >the ovaries does not, necessarily, protect you.

> >4. That removal of the ovaries means instant surgical menopause and a

need

> >for hormone replacement therapy (HRT) for the remainder of their

> >lives--without HRT, a woman's overall risk of acquiring heart disease and

> >osteoporosis increases significantly. (Heart disease is the number one

> >killer of women in this nation.)

> >

> >During the last 20 years in the United States, over 12 million women have

> >opted to have a hysterectomy under the guidance and advice of a

> >gynecologist. Out of those 12 million, roughly 7.5 million women have

> >consented to the removal of their ovaries at the same time.

> >

> >So, compare how you responded with how women have responded under similar

> >circumstances with significantly smaller statistical risk factors and ask

> >yourself one question: Why?

> >

> >When women say " Not tonight dear, I have a headache. " Could they

possibly

> >mean " Not tonight dear, I have no libido and will get nothing out of this

> >sexual encounter anyway so let's not. Okay? "

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

> >eGroups.com home: /group/uterinefibroids

> > - Simplifying group communications

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> Visit FindLaw at http://www.findlaw.com for free case law, web guide, and

legal news, and get your free @JusticeMail.com address at

http://www.justicemail.com

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> eGroups.com home: /group/uterinefibroids

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

The first half dozen gyns that recommended hysterectomy to me did so without

my complaining of any symptoms whatsoever so I guess I couldn't really agree

with you on this. And, as far as removal of the ovaries goes,

recommendation to remove them " while I'm in there " are quite common. How

else would 7.5 million have been removed over the last 20 years with those

incredibly low risk factors? It too, BTW, was recommended to me by several

gyns. Necessary? No. But it would have meant my intake of HRT for the

rest of my life or else facing the consequences of being a heart disease or

osteoporosis statistic. Why would I want that? Why is heart disease the #1

killer of women in America anyway? Perhaps it's because of all of those

women without ovaries who are not taking HRT...only a fraction of

menopausal--surgical or natural--women take any kind of HRT).

In the end, I guess you could say that I'm basing my questions on my own

experiences. I didn't think there was ANYTHING wrong with that. However, I

would like to add that it's been well substantiated as occurring to quite a

few women, if my inbox on the topic is any judge of the subject.

Regardless of all of that, the real point of the survey is not the actual

responses to my questions to the men....the real point is to get them

thinking. That's all. Discussion of the topic, even presented in a

controversial

manner, is the point. Why do men have to sit on the sidelines all of the

time while these decisions are made between a woman and her doctor? Doesn't

the surgical outcome of a hysterectomy affect the man as well?

Does this survey have to be fair? I don't think so. 12 million women are

an awful lot of women. 7.5 million leaving the hospital without their

ovaries when only 1.8% stood a chance of actually presenting with cancer is

not exactly a " fair " number. This isn't 1 or 2 gyns pulling off all of

this. It's quite a few gyns and a nice tidy sum of doctors and nice tidy

sum of money. Billions of dollars. It's a business. Being a doctor IS a

business. That's not an unkind cut -- that's the simple truth.

Yes, there are many, many good doctors. But there are an awful lot of

doctors who could truly care less about the impact of the things they say

and do to you and me out there too. Now I'd simply like to see how men

measure in on this topic. BTW, the p.s. is a nice educational tool, no?

carla

>To be fair, you need to add some real medical condition that either the

male comes in complaining of (as we do with bleeding, abdominal bulk,

backaches, etc.) or is discovered by the physician on exam (as some

asymptomatic fibroids are) for which routine treatment is some form of

surgical intervention which - while she's in there - might as well include

removing

>the testicles.

>

>I am not aware of gyns randomly advocating removal of the ovaries unless

they are also recommending a hysterectomy to treat a real medical condition.

(Or, for that matter, I'm not aware of gyns randomly advocating even a

partial hysterectomy absent some diagnosed condition) [Not to say that

hysterectomy is a good solution, or that asymptomatic fibroids necessarily

need treatment, but it is a treatment for a real condition.]

>

>In your hypothetical, there is no similar trigger " requiring " an initial

surgical intervention which can be expanded to include the removal of the

testicles, as a prophalactic cancer treatment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first half dozen gyns that recommended hysterectomy to me did so without

my complaining of any symptoms whatsoever so I guess I couldn't really agree

with you on this. And, as far as removal of the ovaries goes,

recommendation to remove them " while I'm in there " are quite common. How

else would 7.5 million have been removed over the last 20 years with those

incredibly low risk factors? It too, BTW, was recommended to me by several

gyns. Necessary? No. But it would have meant my intake of HRT for the

rest of my life or else facing the consequences of being a heart disease or

osteoporosis statistic. Why would I want that? Why is heart disease the #1

killer of women in America anyway? Perhaps it's because of all of those

women without ovaries who are not taking HRT...only a fraction of

menopausal--surgical or natural--women take any kind of HRT).

In the end, I guess you could say that I'm basing my questions on my own

experiences. I didn't think there was ANYTHING wrong with that. However, I

would like to add that it's been well substantiated as occurring to quite a

few women, if my inbox on the topic is any judge of the subject.

Regardless of all of that, the real point of the survey is not the actual

responses to my questions to the men....the real point is to get them

thinking. That's all. Discussion of the topic, even presented in a

controversial

manner, is the point. Why do men have to sit on the sidelines all of the

time while these decisions are made between a woman and her doctor? Doesn't

the surgical outcome of a hysterectomy affect the man as well?

Does this survey have to be fair? I don't think so. 12 million women are

an awful lot of women. 7.5 million leaving the hospital without their

ovaries when only 1.8% stood a chance of actually presenting with cancer is

not exactly a " fair " number. This isn't 1 or 2 gyns pulling off all of

this. It's quite a few gyns and a nice tidy sum of doctors and nice tidy

sum of money. Billions of dollars. It's a business. Being a doctor IS a

business. That's not an unkind cut -- that's the simple truth.

Yes, there are many, many good doctors. But there are an awful lot of

doctors who could truly care less about the impact of the things they say

and do to you and me out there too. Now I'd simply like to see how men

measure in on this topic. BTW, the p.s. is a nice educational tool, no?

carla

>To be fair, you need to add some real medical condition that either the

male comes in complaining of (as we do with bleeding, abdominal bulk,

backaches, etc.) or is discovered by the physician on exam (as some

asymptomatic fibroids are) for which routine treatment is some form of

surgical intervention which - while she's in there - might as well include

removing

>the testicles.

>

>I am not aware of gyns randomly advocating removal of the ovaries unless

they are also recommending a hysterectomy to treat a real medical condition.

(Or, for that matter, I'm not aware of gyns randomly advocating even a

partial hysterectomy absent some diagnosed condition) [Not to say that

hysterectomy is a good solution, or that asymptomatic fibroids necessarily

need treatment, but it is a treatment for a real condition.]

>

>In your hypothetical, there is no similar trigger " requiring " an initial

surgical intervention which can be expanded to include the removal of the

testicles, as a prophalactic cancer treatment.

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>1. The medical world (and other fields) is one of assessing options based

on

>probabilities, rewards and risks. Unfortunately there is never enough data

>or time to consider all the factors or have complete knowledge. The MD

>assumes certain weightings and recommends a course of action.

Agreed. Consider this though: currently the courses of action given to

women oftentimes do not include: hysteroscopical or laparoscopical

myomectomy, uterine fibroid embolization, endometrial ablation, myolysis, or

cryomyolysis. All valid and potentially appropriate options that a great

many gyns are choosing NOT to offer. Now where does that leave the woman?

>2. Hey, in the patients option he may be wrong. That is why we have the

>protocol of second or third options.

Agreed. However, many women choose not to get a second opinion because of

financial reasons.

>3. However, is there a argument for women may think differently on the

>call - of course - then just tell me " him " how you weigh the factors. But

>the implications that the doctor is an ass and enjoys removing a whole pile

>of stuff ? hmmm, not fair.

Well, I didn't intentionally make this implication. Beyond the make-believe

scenario and questions of how you would respond as a man, everything else I

wrote was fact. Just the facts. Got the numbers from ACOG, Centers from

Disease Control, and several papers I read in the last week. I don't recall

writing that any doctor was an ass or that any doctor enjoys removing a

whole pile of stuff.

I note that you didn't answer the questions. :) But they got you thinking

though, didn't they?

carla

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>1. The medical world (and other fields) is one of assessing options based

on

>probabilities, rewards and risks. Unfortunately there is never enough data

>or time to consider all the factors or have complete knowledge. The MD

>assumes certain weightings and recommends a course of action.

Agreed. Consider this though: currently the courses of action given to

women oftentimes do not include: hysteroscopical or laparoscopical

myomectomy, uterine fibroid embolization, endometrial ablation, myolysis, or

cryomyolysis. All valid and potentially appropriate options that a great

many gyns are choosing NOT to offer. Now where does that leave the woman?

>2. Hey, in the patients option he may be wrong. That is why we have the

>protocol of second or third options.

Agreed. However, many women choose not to get a second opinion because of

financial reasons.

>3. However, is there a argument for women may think differently on the

>call - of course - then just tell me " him " how you weigh the factors. But

>the implications that the doctor is an ass and enjoys removing a whole pile

>of stuff ? hmmm, not fair.

Well, I didn't intentionally make this implication. Beyond the make-believe

scenario and questions of how you would respond as a man, everything else I

wrote was fact. Just the facts. Got the numbers from ACOG, Centers from

Disease Control, and several papers I read in the last week. I don't recall

writing that any doctor was an ass or that any doctor enjoys removing a

whole pile of stuff.

I note that you didn't answer the questions. :) But they got you thinking

though, didn't they?

carla

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>In your hypothetical, there is no similar trigger " requiring " an initial

>>surgical intervention which can be expanded to include the removal of the

>>testicles, as a prophalactic cancer treatment.

>>--

>

>How about an enlarged prostate? Those cause guys to pee a lot

>at night, definitely are a cancer risk...

Well, I still don't think it's necessary to add this to the scenario. But,

it couldn't hurt and would definitely enhance the credibility of a guy even

going to the doctor in the first place! (Am I the only woman who has to

practically force her husband in for a physical?)

carla

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I think you missed my point.

Whether or not you were experiencing symptoms, when the doctor did the exam s/he

found something that has a medical diagnosis and a traditionally recognized

treatment - a hysterectomy. [My understanding is that when doctors were

recommending you have a hysterectomy you did have fibroids, albeit asymptomatic

ones.] In addition to treating the " problem " the doctor also traditionally

suggests taking out the ovaries as a cancer prophalactic.

The way you set up the question for men, the doctor does the exam and finds no

diagnosable condition. Just for kicks she recommends a prophalactic removal of

the testicles.

That would be the equivalent (for us) of going to the doc, having an absolutely

clean exam - nothing diagnosable - yet still suggesting that he perform surgery

solely for the purpose of removing ovaries in order to avoid the chance of

surgery down the road.

If that's happening to women, I've certainly never heard of it (aside from a few

cases of which I'm aware in which mentally handicapped individuals with no gyn

problems were given TAHs in order to avoid the challenge of teaching them proper

hygiene during their menses, and also some women diagnosed with lobular

carcinoma in situ [the practical equivalent of a genetic marker for breast

cancer] who have a bilateral mastectomy in order to avoid the risk of cancer

down the road).

Perhaps fair wasn't the right word to use - equivalent would be more accurate.

I took your questions as a serious research tool for your book - and as such I

was trying to offer you a suggestion to help you avoid criticizm that your

results have minimal worth because the independent prophalactic surgery that you

suggested for men is not equivalent to what is suggested to women - namely that

women have their ovaries prophalactically removed, as an adjunct to surgical

treatment of another diagnosed condition.

Take the suggestion for what it's worth - it was intended help you formulate a

better research tool in the hopes that your ultimate publication will have the

credibility it deserves.

--

>The first half dozen gyns that recommended hysterectomy to me did so without

>my complaining of any symptoms whatsoever so I guess I couldn't really agree

>with you on this.

> And, as far as removal of the ovaries goes,

>recommendation to remove them " while I'm in there " are quite common. How

>else would 7.5 million have been removed over the last 20 years with those

>incredibly low risk factors? It too, BTW, was recommended to me by several

>gyns. Necessary? No.

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No, Carla. You are not the only woman who has to force her husband to go to the doctor. My husband will not go to the doctor unless he is in dire pain or has a visible infection which definitely requires antibiotics. In any event, I then have to scare him about the consequences of not making an appointment and getting treatment. That usually does the trick. However, I don't know that he will ever return since, during his last visit, the doctor told him that he will have to have a rectal exam when he turns 50!

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  • 4 months later...

Robyn Cline wrote:

> Can anyone give me a straight answer. What is the rate that these things

> are supposed to shrink following surgery and is it more normal for them to

> shrink than not shrink? Can anybody give me an answer that I will

> understand.

Robyn,

If you feel like you're not getting a straight answer about shrinkage with

UFE, there's a very simple reason for it: there isn't one. Just as we are

all so very different with how our fibroids grow, where they are growing, how

many there are, etc., we are also very different in how our bodies respond to

any one given procedure to treat uterine fibroids. That is precisely the

problem in trying to make a decision about what to do -- there are no

guarantees about how OUR treatment choice will turn out for any of us. And

there are risks and failures that occur with each and every one of the

treatment choices available.

In general, a completely successful UFE (about 80-90% are completely

successful) will cause your fibroids to shrink -- regardless of how many you

have or where they are located. But it doesn't happen over night. It's a

gradual process that takes up to a year. You will probably experience

noticeable shrinkage within the first 2 or 3 months and the majority of the

remaining shrinkage within the first 6 months.

If there are technical complications or obvious shared blood flow between the

uterine and ovarian arteries which would make your UFE less successful, your

IR should be able to tell you about it after the procedure. But not always.

As for the back pain you mentioned -- it's an elusive item for doctors to

diagnose as well. There are so many causes of back pain, but fibroids are

definitely oftentimes one of those very causes. It took 6 months of daily

abdominal exercises, strength conditioning, and weight lifting after my UFE

before I knew for certain that the fibroids must have been the cause of my

pain.

Prior to UFE, with a 6-7 month size uterus, it was impossible to do abdominal

exercises and my back was truly straining to support my body in an upright

position without much help at all from the abs. In addition to that, the

fibroids were pushing on a nerve in my lower back and pinching it and causing

severe pain. I oftentimes required heavy duty medication to withstand the

pain.

Now that there's muscle balance as well as fibroid shrinkage, my back pain is

mostly gone. But, as I stated, there are many causes of back pain and it is

important for you to work with your doctor in trying to figure this one out as

you move forward in dealing with your fibroids and their symptoms.

Best wishes to you Robyn. Take deep breaths and try to focus on the future.

We'll be thinking of you tomorrow and hoping for the best. :)

Carla Dionne

mailto:cdionne@...

http://www.uterinefibroids.com

/list/uterinefibroids

" Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change

the world. Indeed it's the only thing that ever has. " Margaret Mead

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Thank you to Carla too!!! I appreciate your words and thoughts also.

Thanks to you and Marsha, I feel a whole lot calmer than I did when I got

to work today. I believe everything will be okay. I know I'm just really

nervous today.

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Hi Robyn!

I'm on day #5 after UFE.....Feelin better every day!

You're in my thoughts and prayers

Jan

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Robyn, I totally concur with Carla's comments. UAE results vary a great

deal, but the majority of women seem to be pleased with the results of the

procedure. I had only one uterine artery found and embolized. This is an

extremely rare situation and most women who present with only one uterine

artery do not have a good result with UAE. I did have immediate relief from

my pre-UAE back pain following my UAE, but I did have a " roller-coaster "

type of recovery experiencing different types of back pain for several

months following my UAE. It was never determined if I had alternate ovarian

blood supply as a result of my situation. I had an extremely painful 11

hour degenerative episode at 5 months post-UAE--another rare event. I am

sure that this was due to my one uterine artery situation. I must also

comment that my gyn warned me to expect more pain post UAE. However, I am

happy to report that at one year post UAE, my back pain was gone and my

fibroid size was greatly diminished in size. Even though I had various

types of back pain post UAE, it was usually never as intense as pre-UAE. I

rarely had to take Advil for the pain. My very astute gyn predicted that I

would be " out of the woods " at 1 year post UAE. I am now 15 months

post-UAE and had a recent visit with my gyn. At age 49, she feels that my

fibroid is no longer an issue in my life and that it will continue to

shrink. I concur with her opinion.

All the best to you. Please keep us posted.

Jean

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Hi everyone,

I am going to Boston next week for a consult. What is everyone's best advice

for what tests should be performed BEFORE undergoing this UFE?

I want to have my FSH levels tested and I am also wondering if I should have

an endometrial biopsy done. Any other suggestions girls for pre tests?

a

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest guest

Robyn,

It seems that you have received a couple of good answers already !

I actually meant post your message to the embo group which I believe you are

already a member of (emboegroups). When I used the term " on-line " it

was a bad way of saying - maybe one of the IRs will read his mail shortly

and post a reply.I

I am sorry if I misled you into thinking there was something else.

regards,

Re: No Subject

> :

>

> thanks I'll try that, how do I do that?

>

> Robyn

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!

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>

> eGroups.com Home: /group/uterinefibroids/

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

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Guest guest

Dear Robin,

I am three weeks out from my UAE. My period came a week early, as

well and mine too, was very different.

Stop...start....heavy..heavier..stop and back again. I am completely

over it (4+ days), and I figure I'll give myself another cycle and see

if it lightens up and becomes more regular. I did speak to my IR, and he

mentioned that it really depends on exactly where you were in your cycle

at the time of embolization.

Hang in there!

Jan

On Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:44:17 -0500 Robyn Cline

writes:

> I had my embolization 2 weeks ago yesterday. Period was due on March

> 12,

> but it came March 6. So I am into 4 day, but it is getting worse

> and

> worse, which before embo, it was worse day 1 and day 2 then tapered

> off.

> Is this normal? It's not as much as before, but a lot more than I

> expected. From everything I read I thought it would be real light

> for a

> while, well it's not. I s this normal? Has anyone had a similar

> experience. I'm kind of scared. Spoke with nurse this morning and

> she

> said she would check, still have heard nothing.

>

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!

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> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=uterinefibroids & m=1

>

>

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Guest guest

Robyn,

It's good to hear you are feeling so much better.

No Subject

> Had embo Feb. 23, so almost 3 weeks. Last night I did step aerobics and

> stayed dry. Before, I had to wear a pad, and that wasn't even enough, I

> would still have a mess by the time I was done. Could never go to a gym

to

> do aerobics only at home, unless I wanted to be terribly embarrassed.

Last

> night I made it through, felt like I had to use the bathroom, but nothing

> leaked out. For those of you who have problems with frequent urination,

> you probably can understand how excited I am about this. My 15 year old

> daughter, who teased me before because I would wet all over said Mommies a

> big girl now. Anyway I'm thrilled, I can actually go out and do aerobics

> with other adults without wearing a " depends " diaper. Have a great day

> everybody.

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!

> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as

> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.

> Apply NOW!

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>

> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=uterinefibroids & m=1

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>

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Guest guest

Robyn,

Yes, I will be spending one night at the hospital. I will pack a basin

for the nausea I will I'm sure experience. I have always had a very delicate

stomach so this should really be fun!!

Thanks for the response and support. You are all the best!!!

>

>Reply-To: uterinefibroidsegroups

>To: uterinefibroidsegroups

>Subject: No Subject

>Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:59:28 -0500

>

>

>:

>

>Good luck with your UFE. You are very lucky to have the support of your

>husband. Are you spending the night in the hospital? Too bad you have to

>travel so far. I would suggest that you have something handy for in the

>car in case you are sick to your stomach. I was extremely naseaus (and

>they gave me everything they could think of for it) for two days. I had to

>have (a basin) for in the car and I only live 3 miles from the hospital

>where I had it done. Most women have said their procedures were almost

>painless, unfortunately , I can't say that. But it was well worth it and

>the pain is not unbearable, like when you have a baby. I'm three weeks

>past today and I would do it again, even for the results I have seen so

>far, getting back into clothes, frequent urination has stopped, and back

>doesn't hurt anymore. I can't wait for 2 months to be here, because dr.

>told me that's how long it takes for stomach to go down, I can see a little

>every day.

>

>Well, again good luck,

>I hope you are as happy as your decision as I have been.

>

>Robyn

>

>

>

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>-- /cal?listname=uterinefibroids & m=1

>

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest guest

Robyn,

The brochure I have states: " Uterine volume is seen to decrease almost 50%

with 20-80% reduction in the size of the dominant fibroids. "

Other articles I've read state 80% to 90 % reduction is size within 3

months.

B

No Subject

I have a question maybe a dr. can answer. I went for a check up yesterday

(it's been 5 weeks). the radiologist who did my procedure told me I

shouldn't be lifting weights yet. When is it okay to lift weights. I've

heard of people who started at 2 weeks after. Another question, he keeps

saying my fibroid was a 4 so I assume the 4 centimeters (?), which seems

small compared to everyone elses here, but then he says it was so big it

was pressing down on my bladder and bladder was almost completely flat.

Wouldn't that mean it had to be a fairly big fibroid? I'm confused. How

long does it take for this things to shrink? Do they shrink a lot at first

or does most the shrinking come later on?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

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Guest guest

80 to 90% within 3 months would be great, I hope so. I did ask my dr.

yesterday at my check up if he had done any (he's done a lot, started at

Beaumont hospital near Detroit, and now does them here in the Lansing area

too) if he has ever done one and seen no results as far as shrinkage and he

said no. So I'm hopeful. Thanks for the information.

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Guest guest

Good luck Robyn,

I cancelled my appointment for tomorrow. I'll be going on April 6 to see

the radiologist and have a pelvic ultrasound. After that if I agree,

they'll schedule the procedure, probably within 2 weeks. I'll keep you

posted.

Take care,

Barbara

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