Agency rates are poltics by other means!

[Guest guest]

I am François Malaise and I approve this message...

By the way, I'm often asked to perform editing or review tasks but when the

initial quality is too low and requires an extensive rewriting, I simply give

up. If the txt is editable, I renegociate the editing rate on an hourly basis.

If the txt is unusable, I tell it to the agency and suggest to restart from

scratch.

Happy 2012,

fm

_____________________________

François Malaise, DrMV

EN>FR Biomedical Translations

Time zone: ECT

Tel: +32-(0)65.82.54.40

Cell: +32-(0)475.53.75.73

E-mail: fmalaise@...

http://www.foreignword.com/cv/document_743.htm

______________________________

Avant de jeter la mécanique quantique à la poubelle, vérifier une dernière fois

les fusibles.

Anatole Abragam

Agency rates are poltics by other means!

Good New Year, fellow medical translators!

I am not one of the major participants in this discussion group, as I work

with Scandinavian languages, which are rarely discussed here. Nonetheless,

I follow the e-mail with interest.

A large American agency uses me mainly to evaluate test translations and as

a proofreader. Their rates are decreasing, and have gone down a couple of

cents since I first worked with them a few years ago. Their strategy is to

have inexperienced translators bash out the bulk of the text, and let me fix

it up. (They used to ask me to translate, but when I would not lower my

rates, they quit sending me much translation). Naturally, this is an

exploitive situation, as I end up doing a lot more work salvaging crummy

translations than I am getting paid for. But it is worse than that, because

what this does is to train clients to use these poorly paying agencies, and

takes business away from the better-paying agencies that pay experienced

translators a more respectable rate given their skills and experience.

I told the agency that I could no longer work under these conditions. Their

response was to offer me more money, which I have to turn down for the

following reasons, which is also why I am submitting this tale for your

contemplation.

The relationship between an agency in a freelancer is very much a

take-it-or-leave-it proposition to the agency's benefit. Given the general

lowering of rates worldwide, if we do not take a stand together, we will

have joined their race to the bottom.

The core of my rejection of their offer for more pay for me personally was

that it did not address the company policy of pushing rates downward and

pulling work away from the better-paying agencies. In short, I told them

that for the sake of my colleagues (i.e., you guys!) I was going to stand on

principle and end my association with this agency. This was brought on

because they were getting very giddy about their marketing efforts in

Scandinavia to attract more translation to the agency. Without having

consulted me, they were taking it for granted that I would be doing all of

this proofreading of what I could almost call " scab " or " black-leg "

translators.

So what I am asking all of you is to consider thinking of ourselves in terms

of colleagues and what is good for all of us. I encourage everyone to say no

to low-rate agencies, precisely because it rewards clients to abandon

well-paying agencies, and to participate in that process is to cut our own

collective throat.

If anyone knows of a trade union for freelancers, please chime in!

Individually, we are easy prey, collectively maybe we can look out for each

other. All feedback is personally welcome.

- aka " Roland "

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

I don't know of any unions, but you might check out the INTERNATIONAL

ASSOCIATION OF PROFESSIONAL TRANSLATORS AND INTERPRETERS:

<http://www.aipti.org/eng/>

They are concerned with the same issues you bring up.

I will just add that resisting substandard offers also benefits the translator.

There are agencies that offer reasonable rates and treat translators with

respect, and now that I'm not accepting every inquiry that crosses my desk, I

have time and energy to pursue more rewarding assignments and working

relationships.

I've also found that clients outside the translation industry value translation

more than those inside the industry do.

Best wishes for healthy and prosperous 2012!

a

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

a Gordon

Wilmington, Delaware

Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian > English translation

English copyediting and proofreading

http://www.dbaPlanB.com

http://www.jordanapublishing.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulagordontranslator/

>

> Good New Year, fellow medical translators!

>

[snip]

> So what I am asking all of you is to consider thinking of ourselves in terms

> of colleagues and what is good for all of us. I encourage everyone to say no

> to low-rate agencies, precisely because it rewards clients to abandon

> well-paying agencies, and to participate in that process is to cut our own

> collective throat.

>

> If anyone knows of a trade union for freelancers, please chime in!

> Individually, we are easy prey, collectively maybe we can look out for each

> other. All feedback is personally welcome.

>

> - aka " Roland "

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I agree with you especially since outgoing expenses are so high in France,

and we can't afford to live.

There is FIT, federation of interpreters and translators but I am not sure

whether they offer union style support or not.

We have some organizations in France that are recognized but they are also

head of translations agencies that do not pay leaving everyone in a

predicament.

Very best for the New Year,

*

* Augustine LINGUIST &

Communications Lead

Tel / Voice : +33 1 34 93 03 00

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People build too many walls and not enough bridges (Issac Newton)

[Guest guest]

Three hurrays for you, Roland! I am also one of the fighters at Thermopylae,

even at the decrease of my income, but out of principle and dignity I am not

ready to do slave labour.

Still, the problem is not only the inexperienced hands, but also those

experienced ones, for whom it is an evening or weekend exercise, or who live in

a country where USD0.06/word can offer some purchasing power. Alas, not in

Scandinavia or Australia.

Regarding trade unions, we are lucky in Australia, because APESMA (you can

google it), the union of Qantas pilots, etc., just started to accept

subscriptions ($$$) from interpreters and translators, who are full time or

casual employees. Exclusively freelancers are still a problem, I think.

" We " want a " free " market, so this is what we have.

I wish all of us a Happier New Year!

 

Kis-Major

NAATI 12582 Professional Translator ( " L3 " )

Spanish>English<>Hungarian

Senior Practitioner AUSIT (Australia)

Professional Member ASETRAD (Spain)

ProZ.com Pro: www.proz.com/profile/19660

UTC/GMT+11 h AEDT Australian Eastern Daylight Time

'Translations that read as an original'©

tkm1au@...

www.hunspa.com

PH +61-2 9476 8882

Mob. +61 414 941 342

Fax+61-2 9476 8882

skype 20052080

'Understanding a sentence is much more akin

to understanding a theme in music...'

(L. Wittgenstein, Last Writings, p.783,Blackwell,'82)

>________________________________

>

>To: medical_translation

>Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2012 2:38 AM

>Subject: Agency rates are poltics by other means!

>

>

> 

>Good New Year, fellow medical translators!

>

>I am not one of the major participants in this discussion group, as I work

>with Scandinavian languages, which are rarely discussed here. Nonetheless,

>I follow the e-mail with interest.

>

>A large American agency uses me mainly to evaluate test translations and as

>a proofreader. Their rates are decreasing, and have gone down a couple of

>cents since I first worked with them a few years ago. Their strategy is to

>have inexperienced translators bash out the bulk of the text, and let me fix

>it up. (They used to ask me to translate, but when I would not lower my

>rates, they quit sending me much translation). Naturally, this is an

>exploitive situation, as I end up doing a lot more work salvaging crummy

>translations than I am getting paid for. But it is worse than that, because

>what this does is to train clients to use these poorly paying agencies, and

>takes business away from the better-paying agencies that pay experienced

>translators a more respectable rate given their skills and experience.

>

>I told the agency that I could no longer work under these conditions. Their

>response was to offer me more money, which I have to turn down for the

>following reasons, which is also why I am submitting this tale for your

>contemplation.

>

>The relationship between an agency in a freelancer is very much a

>take-it-or-leave-it proposition to the agency's benefit. Given the general

>lowering of rates worldwide, if we do not take a stand together, we will

>have joined their race to the bottom.

>

>The core of my rejection of their offer for more pay for me personally was

>that it did not address the company policy of pushing rates downward and

>pulling work away from the better-paying agencies. In short, I told them

>that for the sake of my colleagues (i.e., you guys!) I was going to stand on

>principle and end my association with this agency. This was brought on

>because they were getting very giddy about their marketing efforts in

>Scandinavia to attract more translation to the agency. Without having

>consulted me, they were taking it for granted that I would be doing all of

>this proofreading of what I could almost call " scab " or " black-leg "

>translators.

>

>So what I am asking all of you is to consider thinking of ourselves in terms

>of colleagues and what is good for all of us. I encourage everyone to say no

>to low-rate agencies, precisely because it rewards clients to abandon

>well-paying agencies, and to participate in that process is to cut our own

>collective throat.

>

>If anyone knows of a trade union for freelancers, please chime in!

>Individually, we are easy prey, collectively maybe we can look out for each

>other. All feedback is personally welcome.

>

>- aka " Roland "

>

>

[Guest guest]

Happy New Year to all.

The problem does not only imply agencies’ practices but our fellow translators

who take a certain pride in lowering their rates in order to take jobs away from

colleagues. Then we find them in fora complaining about how swamped they

are…..

In 2008, I wrote and published a book about awareness of translators.

‘Translation – A Flawless Career’. I have never lowered my rates, always

kept my self-esteem and leadership at the highest, even when noticing a drop in

workload, due to who we know. I am proud to say that last month I was able to

pay off my mortgage on a 5-bedroom home plus pool with proceeds from

translating. I feel more free than ever, therefore more selective. Actually, I

am now considering myself as semi-retired and focusing on some language-based

projects and my second book.

Could these colleagues hope one day being able to do so? Hum, I wonder…or will

they only stay at the scribe, slave level?

Please let’s not condemn only agencies but let’s unite in one effort and

goal.

No more low rates, no more free test and no more acceptation of minimum 30 days

and + to get paid.

Believe me I have succeeded, my maximum term was 15 days.

All my best,

P

From: medical_translation

[mailto:medical_translation ] On Behalf Of Kis-Major

Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 5:14 PM

To: medical_translation

Subject: Re: Agency rates are poltics by other means!

Three hurrays for you, Roland! I am also one of the fighters at Thermopylae,

even at the decrease of my income, but out of principle and dignity I am not

ready to do slave labour.

Still, the problem is not only the inexperienced hands, but also those

experienced ones, for whom it is an evening or weekend exercise, or who live in

a country where USD0.06/word can offer some purchasing power. Alas, not in

Scandinavia or Australia.

Regarding trade unions, we are lucky in Australia, because APESMA (you can

google it), the union of Qantas pilots, etc., just started to accept

subscriptions ($$$) from interpreters and translators, who are full time or

casual employees. Exclusively freelancers are still a problem, I think.

" We " want a " free " market, so this is what we have.

I wish all of us a Happier New Year!

Kis-Major

NAATI 12582 Professional Translator ( " L3 " )

Spanish>English<>Hungarian

Senior Practitioner AUSIT (Australia)

Professional Member ASETRAD (Spain)

ProZ.com Pro: www.proz.com/profile/19660

UTC/GMT+11 h AEDT Australian Eastern Daylight Time

'Translations that read as an original'©

tkm1au@... <mailto:tkm1au%40yahoo.com.au>

www.hunspa.com

PH +61-2 9476 8882

Mob. +61 414 941 342

Fax+61-2 9476 8882

skype 20052080

'Understanding a sentence is much more akin

to understanding a theme in music...'

(L. Wittgenstein, Last Writings, p.783,Blackwell,'82)

>________________________________

> From: Spellerberg <scott.spellerberg@...

<mailto:scott.spellerberg%40telia.com> >

>To: medical_translation

<mailto:medical_translation%40yahoogroups.com>

>Sent: Tuesday, 3 January 2012 2:38 AM

>Subject: Agency rates are poltics by other means!

>

>

>

>Good New Year, fellow medical translators!

>

>I am not one of the major participants in this discussion group, as I work

>with Scandinavian languages, which are rarely discussed here. Nonetheless,

>I follow the e-mail with interest.

>

>A large American agency uses me mainly to evaluate test translations and as

>a proofreader. Their rates are decreasing, and have gone down a couple of

>cents since I first worked with them a few years ago. Their strategy is to

>have inexperienced translators bash out the bulk of the text, and let me fix

>it up. (They used to ask me to translate, but when I would not lower my

>rates, they quit sending me much translation). Naturally, this is an

>exploitive situation, as I end up doing a lot more work salvaging crummy

>translations than I am getting paid for. But it is worse than that, because

>what this does is to train clients to use these poorly paying agencies, and

>takes business away from the better-paying agencies that pay experienced

>translators a more respectable rate given their skills and experience.

>

>I told the agency that I could no longer work under these conditions. Their

>response was to offer me more money, which I have to turn down for the

>following reasons, which is also why I am submitting this tale for your

>contemplation.

>

>The relationship between an agency in a freelancer is very much a

>take-it-or-leave-it proposition to the agency's benefit. Given the general

>lowering of rates worldwide, if we do not take a stand together, we will

>have joined their race to the bottom.

>

>The core of my rejection of their offer for more pay for me personally was

>that it did not address the company policy of pushing rates downward and

>pulling work away from the better-paying agencies. In short, I told them

>that for the sake of my colleagues (i.e., you guys!) I was going to stand on

>principle and end my association with this agency. This was brought on

>because they were getting very giddy about their marketing efforts in

>Scandinavia to attract more translation to the agency. Without having

>consulted me, they were taking it for granted that I would be doing all of

>this proofreading of what I could almost call " scab " or " black-leg "

>translators.

>

>So what I am asking all of you is to consider thinking of ourselves in terms

>of colleagues and what is good for all of us. I encourage everyone to say no

>to low-rate agencies, precisely because it rewards clients to abandon

>well-paying agencies, and to participate in that process is to cut our own

>collective throat.

>

>If anyone knows of a trade union for freelancers, please chime in!

>Individually, we are easy prey, collectively maybe we can look out for each

>other. All feedback is personally welcome.

>

>- aka " Roland "

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

Thanks for your message and for asking translators to look at the bigger picture

with regard to rates. I am wondering how pervasive this problem is in our

community of medical translators. Have many of us here actually been asked by

our long-term clients to lower our rates due to the global economy? I tend to

think this problem is exaggerated, or may affect only certain types of

translators in the non-medical areas. I am interested in hearing from others

here about this issue.

I would also like to add that my own rates have been increasing gradually over

the years (although I do offer some discounts and benefits to established

clients). During the recent economic downturn, in fact, my income actually

increased significantly as I allocated more of my time to high-paying, top-notch

clients rather than accepting work from those operating on a " tight budget. "

I encourage other translators to use rates in this way to weed out the less

professional clients and cultivate the best ones as working partners. Such

top-tier agencies can be relied upon not just for a good income, but also for

the valuable relationships than can be built with their in-house staff and

freelance translators. These relationships help all of us, agencies and

translators alike, to foster an atmosphere of mutual respect and professionalism

that will, in turn, make an impression on the final consumers of our work and

influence them to value that work more highly.

Best wishes for 2012!

A. Vail, LLC

5147 South Othello Street

Seattle, WA 98118

Tel. & Fax:

Websites: www.javail.net; www.woollybear.org

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I seem to have been lucky. I've been working for the same medical translation

agency in Europe for a few years now, and there's been no pressure to reduce my

rates.

Connor

Europa Translations

Melbourne

RE: Agency rates are poltics by other means!

Hi, ,

Thanks for your message and for asking translators to look at the bigger

picture with regard to rates. I am wondering how pervasive this problem is in

our community of medical translators. Have many of us here actually been asked

by our long-term clients to lower our rates due to the global economy? I tend to

think this problem is exaggerated, or may affect only certain types of

translators in the non-medical areas. I am interested in hearing from others

here about this issue.

[Guest guest]

Just as a 'live' illustration, I rejected this typical offer from a US agency

three days ago:

'Dear Kis-Major,

I have a PDF file that is arouind 5,000 words long that I need translated from

Hungarian to English.

The content is somewhat related to medical, though lot of it is general. My

budget is $0.065 per word.'

On top of it, on a long weekend, but of course somebody must have done it at

that price, looking only at the USD325.00, not the amount of work involved...

I agree with , we have to concentrate on agencies that have clients who are

ready to pay a fair price for quality (or non agency direct clients).

Cheers,

Kis-Major

[Guest guest]

Dear colleagues,

I've been following the discussion with great interest, and what can I

say... in my specific case, EN-PT into Spanish, you know how battered

the market is. Also, being a conference interpreter, I may see that some

of you are right at saying that customers sometimes do not have a direct

feeling of the quality of a specific job until it is too late; but as

customers, ALL OF US I believe first try to gather some information

about the nature of a specific product before buying it, specially if we

do not know if it will be " good for our health " , do nothing or harm us.

Maybe in interpreting this is a faster process: they can always

desperately ring you up when a congress is half-way after kicking some

" interpreter-sniper " in the back because of the audience complaining

about a rotten interpreting. But you can also have it the other way

round (and I'm always looking in this message for examples that parallel

what happens in translation, even if at a different, shorter timing):

" sir, we have found your CV impressive, but we have come across another

profile which better suits this specific translation assignment " .

Bullshit... That was after quite a few conversations on the phone.

Conclusion: even if there are and there always be serious customers and

agencies knowing that a good job in translation and interpreting takes

quite a big deal of time and effort, the market is too hardly pressed;

and, as said in Spanish, too many colleagues are letting their trousers

go down out of fear, need, whatever the reason. In my specific case,

even if I still get my rates, I wouldn't want to be linked to such

colleagues either in translation or interpreting, as my work " cleans

their faces " , as theirs becomes dilluted into the average quality

offered. But that is another front I cannot fight; I have been fighting

for my rates for ages, have preserved them and have managed to survive

quite decently, but a moment has come when I cannot afford saying no to

some jobs at which I end up working with people whose policy I do not

like, even if I'm payed my own rate... And on the other front, there are

companies wanting medical protocols translated at 0.07 cents (I believe

0.05 Euros)... gosh! The burden of responsibility is just impossible to

bear at those rates, let alone a decent insurance polity...

Granada, Spain