Guest guest Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 Ata, I loved your response: One time one kid asked me what a virgin was. Of course I told her. Then > after a few minutes she asked me if I was one. I told her that I wasn't > going to tell her- not because it was some big secret about me or anything > but because I didn't think it was apropriate for her to worry about who > might or might not be at that stage in her life, and we talked about it a > little bit more and then she lost interest it and wanted to talk about > something else like digital pets. > It gave her the information that she was asking about being human, didn't make a big deal about it, refocused her back to herself by not answering about yourself, and she went on to talk about something else. That's a textbook way to handle that question. Greg. Kerrie wrote: Ata, I often find myself having mixed feelings and opinions about open communications w/the kiddos. I mean to say that yes, I think these things like inappropriate touching and whatnot are necessary conversations kids need to know. I'm just not sure at what point the line should be drawn. I don't particularly want to talk excessively w/the kids about sex. The culture saturates them and all of us w/images and nuiances. And yet I also know if I don't do an effective job of communicating these things, someone else will- someone whom I'm not sure shares the sames beliefs and feelings on these matters as we do and so of course we do plan on sharing these things. I guess sometimes I do see parents cross the lines and of course parents like the bp in so far as sharing way too much information or wanting to be their child's bestfriend, which I think is a horrible idea. But since this is still so new to me, parenting and all, I'm not sure how I would feel or say when approaching my kids. I do have an older dear friend who is very wise in these ways. I need to pick her brain and see how it was that she raised such awesome, well-adjusted, non- promiscious, loving children. Its really hard to know though about how much info is too much and how little is too little, ya know? > > > > > Hi everyone. Last night dh and I did this training > > > class to work > > > w/kids as we help the youth ministry at our church. > > > We teach together > > > which makes us both feel better about this ministry, > > > but of course > > > w/all the child sex abuse scandals lately in my > > > church (and > > > elsewhere), they are making everyone take this 3 1/2 > > > hour class which > > > I thought was really good. It required discussion > > > amongst small > > > groups as well (was too funny having our oldest > > > son's teacher there > > > in our group though he only went to class for two > > > days- didn't feel > > > he was ready for it yet as he cried too much and I > > > listen to those > > > cues as a parent and especially since I don't have > > > to do daycare or > > > anything- though truly I would appreciate one day to > > > do errands on my > > > own). > > > > > > Anyway, they had interviews w/abused kids as well as > > > two > > > perpetrators. At the end, they listed 10 red flags > > > that should warn > > > an outsider to potential problems. One thing that I > > > was happy to hear > > > about is that at least 100 people in my diocese > > > alone had been turned > > > away to help work w/children b/c of references and > > > background checks > > > which says to me that this new program is working > > > better than most > > > (though of course I think society in general has a > > > long way to go > > > w/being aware and stepping up). I was amazed that > > > these 100 or so > > > people had the audacity to apply to help work > > > w/children w/their > > > backgrounds, but I am not totally surprised as we > > > all have abusive > > > parents and know that they don't have limits or a > > > grasp of common > > > decency. > > > > > > Anyway, of those 10 traits a few jumped out at me as > > > totally my nada- > > > playing too rough w/the kids when the parents ask > > > them to not be so > > > rough as I've had this w/nada a few times and my > > > oldest was scared of > > > her when she visited the last time when he was only > > > 8 months old b/c > > > she kept pushing this plush bunny she bought him for > > > Easter in his > > > face too hard and irritating him. I remember reading > > > a while back on > > > the profiles of bps that bp moms when interacting > > > w/their children > > > under observation are too rough and the babies learn > > > to disengage and > > > not make eye contact w/their caregiver b/c there is > > > an underlying > > > mistrust early on from the lack of delicacy and > > > nurturance the bp > > > mother is not showing or may be unable to show. Well > > > that was the > > > first trait that jumped out at me. > > > > > > The second trait was unsolicited gifts or gifts to > > > the child when the > > > parent has requested them to not give them gifts. We > > > all know this > > > angle that the bp works, but its not just bps as > > > many abusers who > > > target children know how to worm their way in > > > w/charm and gifts to > > > manipulate the child...to win them over so that > > > later on they can > > > take advantage of the child and debase them for > > > their own power > > > trips. This is too familiar w/the queen nada who > > > uses gifts to > > > manipulate but they are NOT, NOT a sign of love or > > > affection, but > > > rather emotional blackmail and exploitation of the > > > relationship. > > > Additionally those of us w/kids and bp parents need > > > to be ever more > > > vigilant on guard for this type of behavior b/c not > > > teaching our kids > > > about these boundaries w/a nada will allow other > > > predators to prey > > > upon our kids and use these mechanisms such as gift > > > giving to have > > > someone move in on our terrority/our children's > > > trust- issues that > > > should be primarily reserved first and foremost to > > > the parents and > > > from there to the outside world. The child abuser > > > does not respect > > > these boundaries and sidesteps or infringes upon the > > > parents natural > > > right, a right upheld even by the constitution > > > (hence why the > > > Grandparent's Right movement will never be enacted > > > as law as its > > > unconstitutional), to get to the child and win the > > > child over. Hence > > > we did NOT allow our three year old to open his > > > gifts from nada this > > > b-day as she's singled him out (she has preference > > > for him over my > > > 19mosold b/c he looks so much like my brother) and I > > > traded in the > > > gifts the other day and will buy toys for the poor > > > children at > > > christmas w/nada's exchange. BUT, I will teach my > > > children this > > > technique as they grow up- to be aware of people who > > > try too hard to > > > win their affection and charm and lure them in > > > w/gifts and person > > > flattery. > > > > > > Which leads to another profile, people who want to > > > spend too much > > > alone time w/kids or bond too strongly w/the kids. I > > > don't want my > > > children to seek out people who are just like them > > > as we all know > > > part of bp's MO is to use flattery and commonality > > > and many of the > > > enablers and spouses of bps were won over early b/c > > > of low self- > > > esteem and the ability of the bp to trump the > > > 'soulmate' card- 'look > > > how much we have incommon, we are just meant to be'. > > > I want my kids > > > to be on guard, just as I am on guard, w/people who > > > come into our > > > lives w/too many coincidences and who want to form > > > bonds based on > > > those similarities as its a red flag for how abusers > > > work though > > > honestly a good many enablers and victims jump on > > > that bandwagon too. > > > Again, i think it a factor of low self-esteem and > > > one of the > > > perpetrators even said as much- he targeted > > > especially 'needy' > > > children. I don't want my kids to fall into that > > > catagory and > > > therefore have to be vigilant w/how they express > > > their emotional > > > needs while not making them paranoid. Its a fine > > > line and yet I can > > > already see it in my kids- that they are more > > > comfortable in their > > > own skin than some other kids their age b/c they > > > know they can trust > > > me and don't have to rely on outsiders to build them > > > up at this early > > > age. That was another thing I was aghast about- the > > > absolute horrific > > > number of parents as well as even the education > > > system w/how they do > > > NOT do background checks or references (I did ask > > > the school even > > > though I was quite certain of the answer if they did > > > background > > > checks on their teachers before our oldest started > > > preschool for two > > > days this year- would rather offend them than my > > > child and if they > > > are offended, a red flag goes off for me, ya know). > > > One of the adult > > > female victims abused by a teacher could have had > > > her situation > > > prevented if the school had merely checked w/the > > > teacher's former > > > employer as she was fired from another school for > > > molesting a child. > > > And yet paretns rarely if ever do background checks > > > on their kids > > > coaches or cub scout leaders or whatnot. Amazes me > > > how much work and > > > investigation people will put into buying a home or > > > a car but not > > > w/someone who works w/their kids. I'd rather be seen > > > as paranoid and > > > one of the predators gave a situation where one > > > parent was vigilant > > > in the face of his encroachment into their child's > > > life and > > > said 'that parent was a good parent, a wise parent.' > > > I hope I can > > > grow in that direction. > > > > > > The one that jumped out the most at me and that I > > > spoke up in class > > > about when asking for the review and the one the > > > facilitator > > > commented on after I said it as being perhaps the > > > single most > > > important factor in recognizing the child predator > > > is that 'the rules > > > don't apply to them.' Gosh, how can we ever relate > > > to that one as KOs > > > and our nada's thinking rules are for others. Same > > > w/the child sex > > > offender. While there are rules of not being alone > > > w/the kids, the > > > child sex offender will find a way to break it or go > > > around it and > > > that's one MO that they work as well- if the parents > > > don't allow > > > something, the predator will allow the child to get > > > away w/it in > > > their presence to win over the trust and support and > > > admiration of > > > the child only to exploit. I think that is one of > > > the main reasons I > > > didn't like the Harry Potter books is b/c when Harry > > > broke the rules > > > for his school, his teacher pretended to scold him > > > infront of the > > > class, but then commended him in private on his > > > ability to outperform > > > the other children in his broom flying/game playing. > > > THAT IS THE > > > EXACT opposite of what I want my children to learn > > > from their > > > teachers. In fact a teacher like that is scarey b/c > > > it makes my child > > > prone to flattery and thinking they are exempt from > > > the rules b/c > > > another adult has commended them and even well > > > meaning adults who do > > > this make it so that the child can't differentiate > > > between the abuser > > > and the normal non-abuser b/c the normal one has > > > shown a breaking of > > > the rules is okay. Ulk. I want my kids to question > > > authority, > > > including my own, but also to know the rules are > > > there for their > > > protection- not for their submission. The child > > > abuser breaks the > > > rules and allows the child to break their parent's > > > rules so that > > > later on the child abuser can be even more heinous > > > and disgusting in > > > the rules of humanity that they break- far beyond > > > the ones listed in > > > Harry Potter, but that's how they get in good w/the > > > kids- breaking > > > rules is the norm and so they are able to fly under > > > radar much like 9- > > > 11 terrorists w/people so use to not holding people > > > back from flying > > > even when red flags are going off. Though paranoia > > > isn't the > > > solution. Having rules and boundaries and teaching > > > kids a love of > > > those I think is a protection for them. > > > > > > Another thing I learned- 10% of all boys are > > > sexually molested while > > > 20% of gifls. 9 out 10 of the kids molested lead > > > normal lives and > > > never harm children, but that 1% can molest and > > > target up to 500 kids > > > like one of the predators had done. Also only 5% of > > > children saying > > > they were touched inappropriately are lieing and of > > > that 5% 4 out of > > > the 5 are lieing in custody hearings- hello- red > > > flags for bps > > > getting divorced as they sound like the main ones > > > who tax the legal > > > system w/these false allegations. But on the whole, > > > most all children > > > never lie on this topic. 60% of predators are known > > > to the child > > > and/or his family while 29% of predators are related > > > to the child. So > > > that leaves 11% as 'stranger-danger' though that is > > > often the angle > > > society seems to beef-up on- being hypervigiliant > > > w/strangers when > > > the statics are it won't be a stranger who abuses > > > the child, which > > > I'm preaching to the choir here. I just wish society > > > would get a clue > > > and open their eyes as well. > > > > > > The last thing I learned not mentioned in the class > > > but in connection > > > to my own experience w/nada and profiling is that > > > perhaps so many > > > similarities w/the child sex offender and the bp > > > mother exist b/c so > > > many of the bps were likewise abused sexually in > > > childhood. Well not > > > all and I'm thinking my nada wasn't, but I do know > > > her nada was as > > > well as my bp grandmother on the other side. These > > > paradigms passed > > > down from generation to generation of looking the > > > other way when > > > these warning signs go off is what helps the child > > > abuser remain in > > > the dark and having their crimes never come up for > > > questioning. But > > > likewise, good people can also be falsely accused > > > and you 'can't > > > unring a bell' and so I think that's why a lot of > > > people in class > > > took issue w/informing authorities on suspicions- > > > sex abuse hardly > > > nevr happens out in public. But we did talk about > > > talking to peers > > > about this before going up the chain of command- > > > suppose it is called > > > validation, aye? > > > > > > I was happy to see so many people in the class that > > > are probably > > > pretty mainstream being told of these issues on > > > child abuse. I think > > > this education also helps the KO w/how society in > > > general is being > > > educated and informed and trained. I was very, very > > > happy about that > > > though its sick that it has come to this and yet it > > > has been around > > > for a long time. Only recently has it come to the > > > light of day and I > > > hope it will continue to be so in order that society > > > in general will > > > know when another adult thinks the rules don't apply > > > to them, they > > > won't be taken in, but will recognize something > > > isn't right about > > > this person, ya know? > > > > > > Just wanted to share what we went through last night > > > and how > > > impressed I was w/the training though the subject > > > matter is > > > depressing as hell just like the subject matter > > > here, right? It needs > > > to be brought up though for these cycles to be > > > broken. > > > > > > Kerrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.