RE: female hormones/Zoladex

May 29, 2006

How long is a piece of string, Nat. From

all I have read, the time varies tremendously from man to man. Hope yours are

gone soon.

All the best

Terry Herbert

in Melbourne Australia

Diagnosed ‘96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

3+3=6: No treatment. June '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

My site is at www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

It is a

tragedy of the world that no one knows what he doesn’t know, and the less

a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows everything. Joyce Carey

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On Behalf Of Nat Geller

Sent: 29 May 2006 05:35 PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: RE: female hormones/Zoladex

Hi all,

I got ONLY 1 Zoladex shot 7 mon' ago. still have the side effects! hot

flashes, low testosterone, etc'. does anyone know how long side effects from 1

shot last?

I'm so glad I've decided finally to go with the RP. good health to all.

Nat

Terry

Herbert wrote:

,

I am not sure what you want. If you

do a Google search for ADT you will find plenty of sites describing the side

effects because they are a fact – I didn’t make them up to frighten

you and neither did Dr Strum who wrote the presentation I put in my last mail.

All the best

Terry Herbert

in Melbourne Australia

Diagnosed ‘96: Age

54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason 3+3=6: No treatment. June '04: TURP. Mar '06

PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

My site is at

www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

It is a

tragedy of the world that no one knows what he doesn’t know, and the less

a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows everything. Joyce

Carey

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On Behalf Of Hicks

Sent: 27 May 2006 01:18 PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: RE: female hormones!!!!

thanks for the info on

the side effects of hormone

treatment. i read that younger men have severe side

effects versus older men. why do the doctors tell me

" since your young you should not have severe side

effects " how can i get more info on this. I am 43 and

have had no treatment yet. my Gleason is 8 and psa

25.7

why i am i being told my age is a plus. where can i

get more info that substantiates your info.

--- Terry Herbert

wrote:

> Hi Joan and ,

>

> The symptoms of side effects you describe, Joan are

> amongst the wide range

> encountered by men on ADT (Androgen Deprivation

> Therapy). If you go along to

> this website

>

http://www.prostate-cancer.org/powerpoint/online/ADS_Strum_files/v3_document

> .htm and, using the left side to click on ADS Signs

> and Symptoms, you will

> see a description of what might be expected,

> together, as you page down,

> with some suggestions to alleviate these.

>

> As has said the side

effects vary from man to

> man and also depend on

> individual reactions to the drugs being used.

> Sometimes a change of the

> drugs will lessen the side effects. The intermittent

> therapy can also help,

> although this is not an accepted practice in the

> medical world.

>

> Joan, you should also be aware that the recovery

> after treatment can vary

> enormously. Some men recover their libido and

> sexual ability fairly

> quickly, others take a year or more - and some never

> recover. The breast

> enlargement, if it occurs, is usually permanent.

>

> All the best

>

> Terry Herbert

>

> in Melbourne Australia

>

> Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

> 3+3=6: No treatment. June

> '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

>

> My site is at

> www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

>

> It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows what

> he doesn't know, and the

> less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows

> everything. Joyce

> Carey

>

> _____

>

> From: ProstateCancerSupport

> [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On

> Behalf Of Joan

> Sent: 27 May 2006 08:27 AM

> To: ProstateCancerSupport

> Subject: Re: female

> hormones!!!!

>

> Hi charles it isnt you now.....my husband is 68

> and has been having the

> treatment for 3 years and is now at the end of it.

> when it finishes his

> male hormones will take over again. If the symptoms

> get very bad the Dr

> should or the oncologist should be able to sort it

> but its better a few

> female symptoms than the alternative dont you think.

> If your cancer hasnt spread the hormone treatment is

> very good.his PSA is

> now 0.02 better than normal. Its just im not used

> to sharing my home with

> another " woman " Ha Ha

>

> joan cooper

> <http://graphics.hotmail.com/emrose.gif>

>

> _____

>

> From: Hicks <allstar003>

> Reply-To: ProstateCancerSupport

> To: ProstateCancerSupport

> Subject: Re: female

> hormones!!!!

> Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 15:20:57 -0700 (PDT)

>

> hello my name is charles,how old is your husband ?

> The

> reason i ask is beacuse i have been diagnosed with

> protate cancer stage 3 8 gleason and psa of 25.7 and

> rising. I am to be treated with hormone shots. i

> READ

> YOUR E MAIL AND NATURALLY THOUTH 'THIS MIGHT BE ME'

> PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU COULD.

>

> --- Joan wrote:

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> hello I am the wife of a man who got diagnosed with

> prostate cancer 3 years ago after a reading of

> 820psa

> and a biopsy. After cat and mri scans both lymph

> glands and bones were clear. The urologist and

> oncologist decided that surgery was out of the

> queation " the psa was too high " . He was treated

> wwith

> anti testosterone implants every 3 months for 3

> years,

> coming up to his last implant next month. His PSA

> is

> now .o2

>

> My problem is that I am sure the lack of male

> hormones

> has allowed his female hormones to run riot. He

> now

> had bouts of depression, crying occasionally, has

> an

> enlarged bust, water retention causing bloated

> stomach

> and mood swings. This will sound familiar to a

> woman

> prone to Pre mensral tension!!!!!!!!!

> Has anybody else come across this phenomina?????? I

> tell him it will all sort itself out when his

> implants

> stop. I shouldnt complain as he now seems " cured "

> but I should like the comfort of knowing Im not the

> only one living with a pseudo female.Im not moaning

> about it in fact we laugh about it when the mood is

> right.Has anyone else found this or are all too

> embarassed to say.

>

> joan cooper

>

> There are just two rules for this group

> 1 No Spam

> 2 Be kind to others

>

> Try to delete old material that is no longer

> applying

> when clicking reply

> Try to change the title if the content requires it

>

May 29, 2006

thanks

if this felow got 1 shot 7 months ago and still has

side effects that's scary. I am expected to be on this

stuff for 2 or 3 years so i will be pretty messed

up.do you agree ?

--- Terry Herbert wrote:

> How long is a piece of string, Nat. From all I have

> read, the time varies

> tremendously from man to man. Hope yours are gone

> soon.

>

> All the best

>

> Terry Herbert

>

> in Melbourne Australia

>

> Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

> 3+3=6: No treatment. June

> '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

>

> My site is at

> www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

>

> It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows what

> he doesn't know, and the

> less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows

> everything. Joyce

> Carey

>

> _____

>

> From: ProstateCancerSupport

> [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On

> Behalf Of Nat Geller

> Sent: 29 May 2006 05:35 PM

> To: ProstateCancerSupport

> Subject: RE: female

> hormones/Zoladex

>

> Hi all,

>

> I got ONLY 1 Zoladex shot 7 mon' ago. still have the

> side effects! hot

> flashes, low testosterone, etc'. does anyone know

> how long side effects from

> 1 shot last?

>

> I'm so glad I've decided finally to go with the RP.

> good health to all. Nat

>

> Terry Herbert wrote:

>

> ,

>

> I am not sure what you want. If you do a Google

> search for ADT you will

> find plenty of sites describing the side effects

> because they are a fact - I

> didn't make them up to frighten you and neither did

> Dr Strum who wrote the

> presentation I put in my last mail.

>

> All the best

>

> Terry Herbert

>

> in Melbourne Australia

>

> Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

> 3+3=6: No treatment. June

> '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

>

> My site is at

> www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

>

> It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows what

> he doesn't know, and the

> less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows

> everything. Joyce

> Carey

>

> _____

>

> From: ProstateCancerSupport

> [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On

> Behalf Of Hicks

> Sent: 27 May 2006 01:18 PM

> To: ProstateCancerSupport

> Subject: RE: female

> hormones!!!!

>

> thanks for the info on the side effects of hormone

> treatment. i read that younger men have severe side

> effects versus older men. why do the doctors tell me

> " since your young you should not have severe side

> effects " how can i get more info on this. I am 43

> and

> have had no treatment yet. my Gleason is 8 and psa

> 25.7

> why i am i being told my age is a plus. where can i

> get more info that substantiates your info.

>

> --- Terry Herbert

> wrote:

>

> > Hi Joan and ,

> >

> > The symptoms of side effects you describe, Joan

> are

> > amongst the wide range

> > encountered by men on ADT (Androgen Deprivation

> > Therapy). If you go along to

> > this website

> >

>

http://www.prostate-cancer.org/powerpoint/online/ADS_Strum_files/v3_document

> > .htm and, using the left side to click on ADS

> Signs

> > and Symptoms, you will

> > see a description of what might be expected,

> > together, as you page down,

> > with some suggestions to alleviate these.

> >

> > As has said the side effects vary from man

> to

> > man and also depend on

> > individual reactions to the drugs being used.

> > Sometimes a change of the

> > drugs will lessen the side effects. The

> intermittent

> > therapy can also help,

> > although this is not an accepted practice in the

> > medical world.

> >

> > Joan, you should also be aware that the recovery

> > after treatment can vary

> > enormously. Some men recover their libido and

> > sexual ability fairly

> > quickly, others take a year or more - and some

> never

> > recover. The breast

> > enlargement, if it occurs, is usually permanent.

> >

> > All the best

> >

> > Terry Herbert

> >

> > in Melbourne Australia

> >

> > Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

> > 3+3=6: No treatment. June

> > '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

> >

> > My site is at

> > www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

> >

> > It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows

> what

> > he doesn't know, and the

> > less a man knows, the more sure he is that he

> knows

> > everything. Joyce

> > Carey

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

May 29, 2006

Hi .

I have been on Lupron shots for 2 years. For me it has meant breast

enlargement, weight gain (17lbs), frequent hot flashes and a tendency to

weep watching sad TV. I am older than you (75) but enjoyed sex frequently

before my Cryosurgery. After the surgery I was ED but still wished I could

get it up. One year after the surgery it was apparent that it had failed to

kill all the tumor because my PSA had risen to 6.5. The Lupron reduced my

PSA to undetectable a month after the first shot and it has remained there

for almost 2 years. Another thing that it did was destroy my libido so now

no sex is no big deal. I get along fine without it and sometimes wonder why

I was so hung up on it.

Getting Prostate cancer is a major bummer. Fighting it is huge hassle.

But.........if we do not fight it we will soon be staring at the underside

of a casket lid for eternity. That, my friend, would really make you messed

up.

I wish you all the best in whatever you decide.

" il faut d'abord durer " Hemingway

" First it is necessary for one to endure "

RE: female

>> hormones!!!!

>>

>> thanks for the info on the side effects of hormone

>> treatment. i read that younger men have severe side

>> effects versus older men. why do the doctors tell me

>> " since your young you should not have severe side

>> effects " how can i get more info on this. I am 43

>> and

>> have had no treatment yet. my Gleason is 8 and psa

>> 25.7

>> why i am i being told my age is a plus. where can i

>> get more info that substantiates your info.

>>

>> --- Terry Herbert

>> wrote:

>>

>> > Hi Joan and ,

>> >

>> > The symptoms of side effects you describe, Joan

>> are

>> > amongst the wide range

>> > encountered by men on ADT (Androgen Deprivation

>> > Therapy). If you go along to

>> > this website

>> >

>>

> http://www.prostate-cancer.org/powerpoint/online/ADS_Strum_files/v3_document

>> > .htm and, using the left side to click on ADS

>> Signs

>> > and Symptoms, you will

>> > see a description of what might be expected,

>> > together, as you page down,

>> > with some suggestions to alleviate these.

>> >

>> > As has said the side effects vary from man

>> to

>> > man and also depend on

>> > individual reactions to the drugs being used.

>> > Sometimes a change of the

>> > drugs will lessen the side effects. The

>> intermittent

>> > therapy can also help,

>> > although this is not an accepted practice in the

>> > medical world.

>> >

>> > Joan, you should also be aware that the recovery

>> > after treatment can vary

>> > enormously. Some men recover their libido and

>> > sexual ability fairly

>> > quickly, others take a year or more - and some

>> never

>> > recover. The breast

>> > enlargement, if it occurs, is usually permanent.

>> >

>> > All the best

>> >

>> > Terry Herbert

>> >

>> > in Melbourne Australia

>> >

>> > Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

>> > 3+3=6: No treatment. June

>> > '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

>> >

>> > My site is at

>> > www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

>> >

>> > It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows

>> what

>> > he doesn't know, and the

>> > less a man knows, the more sure he is that he

>> knows

>> > everything. Joyce

>> > Carey

>> >

>>

> === message truncated ===

>

> __________________________________________________

>

May 29, 2006

thanks for your experience but if you were 43 and had

no symptoms and knowing what you know now (how your

body would react) would you make the same decision ?

it's not all about sex for me. the hot flashes,breast

enlargement and weight gain are a big deal for me also

but i am told the recurrence rate is real high also. i

am afraid on having all these side affects and

possibly for nothing because it will probably (50%)

chance. a coin flip ! So with that being said and now

i can mention the fact that my life has been built to

enjoy it like a single man living on the beach in

southern Cali with no kids and never married and all

the " stuff " i could want. I am not a fatalist nor do i

have death wish but can you tell me honestly you would

take the hormones (lupron) and external beam (IMRT)

with no symptoms ? because of what the doctors think !

my psa is 25;7 and my Gleason is 8. one doctor said i

could live ten years with no symptoms but if i follow

the treatment offered at this point i am going to have

problems where i have none right now ! The problem now

is emotional, at times i can only think of the stuff i

am being told and find it hard to be myself. PLEASE BE

HONEST !

--- Kennedy wrote:

> Hi .

>

> I have been on Lupron shots for 2 years. For me it

> has meant breast

> enlargement, weight gain (17lbs), frequent hot

> flashes and a tendency to

> weep watching sad TV. I am older than you (75) but

> enjoyed sex frequently

> before my Cryosurgery. After the surgery I was ED

> but still wished I could

> get it up. One year after the surgery it was

> apparent that it had failed to

> kill all the tumor because my PSA had risen to 6.5.

> The Lupron reduced my

> PSA to undetectable a month after the first shot and

> it has remained there

> for almost 2 years. Another thing that it did was

> destroy my libido so now

> no sex is no big deal. I get along fine without it

> and sometimes wonder why

> I was so hung up on it.

>

> Getting Prostate cancer is a major bummer. Fighting

> it is huge hassle.

> But.........if we do not fight it we will soon be

> staring at the underside

> of a casket lid for eternity. That, my friend, would

> really make you messed

> up.

>

> I wish you all the best in whatever you decide.

>

> " il faut d'abord durer " Hemingway

> " First it is necessary for one to endure "

>

> RE: female

> >> hormones!!!!

> >>

> >> thanks for the info on the side effects of

> hormone

> >> treatment. i read that younger men have severe

> side

> >> effects versus older men. why do the doctors tell

> me

> >> " since your young you should not have severe side

> >> effects " how can i get more info on this. I am 43

> >> and

> >> have had no treatment yet. my Gleason is 8 and

> psa

> >> 25.7

> >> why i am i being told my age is a plus. where can

> i

> >> get more info that substantiates your info.

> >>

> >> --- Terry Herbert

> >> wrote:

> >>

> >> > Hi Joan and ,

> >> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

May 29, 2006

I dont think that your Dr will start any treatment before cancer has been diagnosed > They will surely do a biopsy which does not have any side efects they wont take a PSA reading on its own.After a biopsy they will know where exactly round your prostate the tumour is. It up to you whether you have treatment being young your sex life is important and im sure the Drs know this and will do everything to minimise side effects. You have 2 choices Live wwith cancer and maybe die young, have treatment and live longer maybe with side effects which can be minimised. I dont know what you mean about no symptoms if its only a high psa there are more tests to do The recurrance rate is not 50% .At your age the life expectance is at least 20 to 25 years and maybe longer. get hold of some stistics I think you are worrying too soon get the cancer diagnosed then ask the questions.who knows in a few years you may meet a woman who understands and accepts any problems you may have . If youve had no treatment what future can you offer her?

joan cooper

Reply-To: ProstateCancerSupport To: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: Re: female hormones/ZoladexDate: Mon, 29 May 2006 13:48:41 -0700 (PDT)thanks for your experience but if you were 43 and hadno symptoms and knowing what you know now (how yourbody would react) would you make the same decision ?it's not all about sex for me. the hot flashes,breastenlargement and weight gain are a big deal for me alsobut i am told the recurrence rate is real high also. iam afraid on having all these side affects andpossibly for nothing because it will probably (50%)chance. a coin flip ! So with that being said and nowi can mention the fact that my life has been built toenjoy it like a single man living on the beach insouthern Cali with no kids and never married and allthe "stuff" i could want. I am not a fatalist nor do ihave death wish but can you tell me honestly you wouldtake the hormones (lupron) and external beam (IMRT) with no symptoms ? because of what the doctors think !my psa is 25;7 and my Gleason is 8. one doctor said icould live ten years with no symptoms but if i followthe treatment offered at this point i am going to haveproblems where i have none right now ! The problem nowis emotional, at times i can only think of the stuff iam being told and find it hard to be myself. PLEASE BEHONEST !--- Kennedy wrote:> Hi .> > I have been on Lupron shots for 2 years. For me it> has meant breast > enlargement, weight gain (17lbs), frequent hot> flashes and a tendency to > weep watching sad TV. I am older than you (75) but> enjoyed sex frequently > before my Cryosurgery. After the surgery I was ED> but still wished I could > get it up. One year after the surgery it was> apparent that it had failed to > kill all the tumor because my PSA had risen to 6.5.> The Lupron reduced my > PSA to undetectable a month after the first shot and> it has remained there > for almost 2 years. Another thing that it did was> destroy my libido so now > no sex is no big deal. I get along fine without it> and sometimes wonder why > I was so hung up on it.> > Getting Prostate cancer is a major bummer. Fighting> it is huge hassle. > But.........if we do not fight it we will soon be> staring at the underside > of a casket lid for eternity. That, my friend, would> really make you messed > up.> > I wish you all the best in whatever you decide.> > > "il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway> "First it is necessary for one to endure"> > RE: female> >> hormones!!!!> >>> >>> >>> >> thanks for the info on the side effects of> hormone> >> treatment. i read that younger men have severe> side> >> effects versus older men. why do the doctors tell> me> >> "since your young you should not have severe side> >> effects" how can i get more info on this. I am 43> >> and> >> have had no treatment yet. my Gleason is 8 and> psa> >> 25.7> >> why i am i being told my age is a plus. where can> i> >> get more info that substantiates your info.> >>> >> --- Terry Herbert > >> wrote:> >>> >> > Hi Joan and ,> >> >> >> >> === message truncated ===__________________________________________________

May 29, 2006

read s letter If you have no libido you dont want sex so you dont miss it apparently You must try to get your prioritiies right.

joan cooper

Reply-To: ProstateCancerSupport To: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: RE: female hormones/ZoladexDate: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:47:56 -0700 (PDT)thanksif this felow got 1 shot 7 months ago and still hasside effects that's scary. I am expected to be on thisstuff for 2 or 3 years so i will be pretty messedup.do you agree ?--- Terry Herbert wrote:> How long is a piece of string, Nat. From all I have> read, the time varies> tremendously from man to man. Hope yours are gone> soon.> > > > > > All the best> > > > Terry Herbert > > in Melbourne Australia > > Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason> 3+3=6: No treatment. June> '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%> > My site is at> www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za > > It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows what> he doesn't know, and the> less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows> everything. Joyce> Carey> > > > _____ > > From: ProstateCancerSupport > [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On> Behalf Of Nat Geller> Sent: 29 May 2006 05:35 PM> To: ProstateCancerSupport > Subject: RE: female> hormones/Zoladex> > > > Hi all,> > I got ONLY 1 Zoladex shot 7 mon' ago. still have the> side effects! hot> flashes, low testosterone, etc'. does anyone know> how long side effects from> 1 shot last?> > I'm so glad I've decided finally to go with the RP.> good health to all. Nat> > Terry Herbert wrote:> > ,> > > > I am not sure what you want. If you do a Google> search for ADT you will> find plenty of sites describing the side effects> because they are a fact - I> didn't make them up to frighten you and neither did> Dr Strum who wrote the> presentation I put in my last mail.> > > > > > > > > > All the best> > > > Terry Herbert > > in Melbourne Australia > > Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason> 3+3=6: No treatment. June> '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%> > My site is at> www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za > > It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows what> he doesn't know, and the> less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows> everything. Joyce> Carey> > > > > _____ > > > From: ProstateCancerSupport > [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On> Behalf Of Hicks> Sent: 27 May 2006 01:18 PM> To: ProstateCancerSupport > Subject: RE: female> hormones!!!!> > > > thanks for the info on the side effects of hormone> treatment. i read that younger men have severe side> effects versus older men. why do the doctors tell me> "since your young you should not have severe side> effects" how can i get more info on this. I am 43> and> have had no treatment yet. my Gleason is 8 and psa> 25.7> why i am i being told my age is a plus. where can i> get more info that substantiates your info.> > --- Terry Herbert > wrote:> > > Hi Joan and ,> > > > > > > > The symptoms of side effects you describe, Joan> are> > amongst the wide range> > encountered by men on ADT (Androgen Deprivation> > Therapy). If you go along to> > this website> >>http://www.prostate-cancer.org/powerpoint/online/ADS_Strum_files/v3_document> > .htm and, using the left side to click on ADS> Signs> > and Symptoms, you will> > see a description of what might be expected,> > together, as you page down,> > with some suggestions to alleviate these.> > > > > > > > As has said the side effects vary from man> to> > man and also depend on> > individual reactions to the drugs being used.> > Sometimes a change of the> > drugs will lessen the side effects. The> intermittent> > therapy can also help,> > although this is not an accepted practice in the> > medical world.> > > > > > > > Joan, you should also be aware that the recovery> > after treatment can vary> > enormously. Some men recover their libido and> > sexual ability fairly> > quickly, others take a year or more - and some> never> > recover. The breast> > enlargement, if it occurs, is usually permanent.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All the best> > > > > > > > Terry Herbert > > > > in Melbourne Australia > > > > Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason> > 3+3=6: No treatment. June> > '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%> > > > My site is at> > www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za > > > > It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows> what> > he doesn't know, and the> > less a man knows, the more sure he is that he> knows> > everything. Joyce> > Carey> > > > > === message truncated ===__________________________________________________

May 29, 2006

thanks Joan

i have had a biopsy and bone scan MRI and have seen 5

doctors 2 psa's first one 20.7 second 25.7 2 months

apart. my Gleason is 8 and i am 43. my dad died of PC

at age 67. I have been to ceders in LA and st.johns

and freeman and going to visit city of hope

next. I have been told i have 3 to 5 years of feeling

fine and then the shit will hit the fan. i have been

told i may have no symptoms for 10 years. i have seen

radiation oncologist and urologist and just plain

oncologists who say " sorry you are so young " i have

been told it's have spread to the seminal vesicles and

is outside of the capsule. if i sound angry it's

because i am and not at you but SEX important for me !

it's not everything but i am not 75 sorry ! honesty is

i have not touched a woman since i have been diagnosed

because i cant think of anything else but my breast

swellng gaining wait burning when urinating possible

rectal problems HOT FLASHES ? can i get one e mail of

somebody even close to my age ! i cannot be this rare

! I HAVE NO SYMPTOMS ! I will tell you how i actually

found out i got this whatever ! cancer ! I walked into

a drug store and had my blood pressure checked by one

of those stationary machines and found it high. This

is after changing my diet and excersizing and

eventually getting off the blood pressure medicine in

a bout a year. I called the doctor and he said come

in. i had the pressure taked the next day and he said

it was fine and to get a home pressure machine...WE

both laughed ! He asked if he could take some blood to

make sure the hart was fine without the medicine...i

said sure why not ! we talked when results were in and

he said i was fine but wanted me to see a urologist ?

i said ok...i got the pathology ? report in the mail

and it has psa circled 20.7 (GOOGLE) thats how i found

out ! so now this is the point i am at ?

--- Joan wrote:

---------------------------------

read s letter If you have no libido

you dont want sex so you dont miss it apparently

You must try to get your prioritiies right.

joan cooper

---------------------------------

Reply-To: ProstateCancerSupport

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: RE: female

hormones/Zoladex

Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 09:47:56 -0700 (PDT)

thanks

if this felow got 1 shot 7 months ago and still has

side effects that's scary. I am expected to be on this

stuff for 2 or 3 years so i will be pretty messed

up.do you agree ?

--- Terry Herbert wrote:

> How long is a piece of string, Nat. From all I have

> read, the time varies

> tremendously from man to man. Hope yours are gone

> soon.

>

> All the best

>

> Terry Herbert

>

> in Melbourne Australia

>

> Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

> 3+3=6: No treatment. June

> '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

>

> My site is at

> www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

>

> It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows what

> he doesn't know, and the

> less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows

> everything. Joyce

> Carey

>

> _____

>

> From: ProstateCancerSupport

> [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On

> Behalf Of Nat Geller

> Sent: 29 May 2006 05:35 PM

> To: ProstateCancerSupport

> Subject: RE: female

> hormones/Zoladex

>

> Hi all,

>

> I got ONLY 1 Zoladex shot 7 mon' ago. still have the

> side effects! hot

> flashes, low testosterone, etc'. does anyone know

> how long side effects from

> 1 shot last?

>

> I'm so glad I've decided finally to go with the RP.

> good health to all. Nat

>

> Terry Herbert wrote:

>

> ,

>

> I am not sure what you want. If you do a Google

> search for ADT you will

> find plenty of sites describing the side effects

> because they are a fact - I

> didn't make them up to frighten you and neither did

> Dr Strum who wrote the

> presentation I put in my last mail.

>

> All the best

>

> Terry Herbert

>

> in Melbourne Australia

>

> Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

> 3+3=6: No treatment. June

> '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

>

> My site is at

> www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

>

> It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows what

> he doesn't know, and the

> less a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows

> everything. Joyce

> Carey

>

> _____

>

> From: ProstateCancerSupport

> [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On

> Behalf Of Hicks

> Sent: 27 May 2006 01:18 PM

> To: ProstateCancerSupport

> Subject: RE: female

> hormones!!!!

>

> thanks for the info on the side effects of hormone

> treatment. i read that younger men have severe side

> effects versus older men. why do the doctors tell me

> " since your young you should not have severe side

> effects " how can i get more info on this. I am 43

> and

> have had no treatment yet. my Gleason is 8 and psa

> 25.7

> why i am i being told my age is a plus. where can i

> get more info that substantiates your info.

>

> --- Terry Herbert

> wrote:

>

> > Hi Joan and ,

> >

> > The symptoms of side effects you describe, Joan

> are

> > amongst the wide range

> > encountered by men on ADT (Androgen Deprivation

> > Therapy). If you go along to

> > this website

> >

>

http://www.prostate-cancer.org/powerpoint/online/ADS_Strum_files/v3_document

> > .htm and, using the left side to click on ADS

> Signs

> > and Symptoms, you will

> > see a description of what might be expected,

> > together, as you page down,

> > with some suggestions to alleviate these.

> >

> > As has said the side effects vary from man

> to

> > man and also depend on

> > individual reactions to the drugs being used.

> > Sometimes a change of the

> > drugs will lessen the side effects. The

> intermittent

> > therapy can also help,

> > although this is not an accepted practice in the

> > medical world.

> >

> > Joan, you should also be aware that the recovery

> > after treatment can vary

> > enormously. Some men recover their libido and

> > sexual ability fairly

> > quickly, others take a year or more - and some

> never

> > recover. The breast

> > enlargement, if it occurs, is usually permanent.

> >

> > All the best

> >

> > Terry Herbert

> >

> > in Melbourne Australia

> >

> > Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason

> > 3+3=6: No treatment. June

> > '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

> >

> > My site is at

> > www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

> >

> > It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows

> what

> > he doesn't know, and the

> > less a man knows, the more sure he is that he

> knows

> > everything. Joyce

> > Carey

> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

May 29, 2006

:

>thanks for your experience but if you were 43 and had

>no symptoms and knowing what you know now (how >your

>body would react) would you make the same decision ?

***** What do you mean? You do have serious symptoms. A Gleason of 8 and a

PSA over 25 are some serious shit. The next symptoms you may get are: Not

being able to pee. Time for a Roto- Rooter procedure. No cum. That can get

plugged up too. Maybe it spreads to your colon. Whoa! bad shit any way you

look at it. Then one day you are hurting in your bones so bad you can't push

the button on your Morphine drip pump fast enough to make the pain go away.

I guess then you could swallow a 9 mm pill if you could get to the piece.

You bet your ass I would do it again in a heartbeat. Suicide by PCa is

probably the poorest decision any guy could make. Laying in front of a train

is easier.

>one doctor said i

>could live ten years with no symptoms but if i follow

>the treatment offered at this point i am going to have

>problems where i have none right now !

***** You have said you do not want to do any treatment just because of what

the doctors said but now you are clinging to what another doctor said about

having 10 years symptom free. He cannot guarantee that! It is like the one

who says he is going to cure you. Bull! he does not know! YOU HAVE SYMPTOMS

MAN! Listen to them.

>The problem now

>is emotional, at times i can only think of the stuff i

>am being told and find it hard to be myself. PLEASE BE

>HONEST !

***** I am trying my damndest to give you my honest answer but I feel very

inept when it comes to this. You have an average life expectancy of about 78

years. That gives you 35 years of of sunrises and sunsets and all that you

can make happen between those two events. Stuff that you have not even

imagined can be waiting to be done between sunrise and sunset for the next

35 years.

I wish I could have a shot at those 35 years but I have already used mine

up. Almost. But you see I am not going without a damn good fight. I will

take 85 with my big boobs and the fat belly and the hot flashes if only the

big guy says it's OK.

I only went to High School like you. I am not smart. I hope my attempt at an

honest opinion helps you my brother. We are both battling the same beast.

" You don't always make an out. Sometimes the pitcher gets you out. " Carl

Yastrzemski

RE: female

>> >> hormones!!!!

>> >>

>> >> thanks for the info on the side effects of

>> hormone

>> >> treatment. i read that younger men have severe

>> side

>> >> effects versus older men. why do the doctors tell

>> me

>> >> " since your young you should not have severe side

>> >> effects " how can i get more info on this. I am 43

>> >> and

>> >> have had no treatment yet. my Gleason is 8 and

>> psa

>> >> 25.7

>> >> why i am i being told my age is a plus. where can

>> i

>> >> get more info that substantiates your info.

>> >>

>> >> --- Terry Herbert

>> >> wrote:

>> >>

>> >> > Hi Joan and ,

>> >> >

>>

> === message truncated ===

>

> __________________________________________________

>

May 29, 2006

thanks frank

i apreciate your honesty thats what i wanted.

--- Kennedy wrote:

> :

>

> >thanks for your experience but if you were 43 and

> had

> >no symptoms and knowing what you know now (how

> >your

> >body would react) would you make the same decision

> ?

>

> ***** What do you mean? You do have serious

> symptoms. A Gleason of 8 and a

> PSA over 25 are some serious shit. The next symptoms

> you may get are: Not

> being able to pee. Time for a Roto- Rooter

> procedure. No cum. That can get

> plugged up too. Maybe it spreads to your colon.

> Whoa! bad shit any way you

> look at it. Then one day you are hurting in your

> bones so bad you can't push

> the button on your Morphine drip pump fast enough to

> make the pain go away.

> I guess then you could swallow a 9 mm pill if you

> could get to the piece.

> You bet your ass I would do it again in a heartbeat.

> Suicide by PCa is

> probably the poorest decision any guy could make.

> Laying in front of a train

> is easier.

>

> >one doctor said i

> >could live ten years with no symptoms but if i

> follow

> >the treatment offered at this point i am going to

> have

> >problems where i have none right now !

>

> ***** You have said you do not want to do any

> treatment just because of what

> the doctors said but now you are clinging to what

> another doctor said about

> having 10 years symptom free. He cannot guarantee

> that! It is like the one

> who says he is going to cure you. Bull! he does not

> know! YOU HAVE SYMPTOMS

> MAN! Listen to them.

>

> >The problem now

> >is emotional, at times i can only think of the

> stuff i

> >am being told and find it hard to be myself. PLEASE

> BE

> >HONEST !

>

> ***** I am trying my damndest to give you my honest

> answer but I feel very

> inept when it comes to this. You have an average

> life expectancy of about 78

> years. That gives you 35 years of of sunrises and

> sunsets and all that you

> can make happen between those two events. Stuff that

> you have not even

> imagined can be waiting to be done between sunrise

> and sunset for the next

> 35 years.

> I wish I could have a shot at those 35 years but I

> have already used mine

> up. Almost. But you see I am not going without a

> damn good fight. I will

> take 85 with my big boobs and the fat belly and the

> hot flashes if only the

> big guy says it's OK.

>

> I only went to High School like you. I am not smart.

> I hope my attempt at an

> honest opinion helps you my brother. We are both

> battling the same beast.

>

> " You don't always make an out. Sometimes the pitcher

> gets you out. " Carl

> Yastrzemski

>

> RE: female

> >> hormones/Zoladex

> >>

> >> > thanks

> >> > if this felow got 1 shot 7 months ago and still

> >> has

> >> > side effects that's scary. I am expected to be

> on

> >> this

> >> > stuff for 2 or 3 years so i will be pretty

> messed

> >> > up.do you agree ?

> >> >

> >> > --- Terry Herbert

> >> wrote:

> >> >

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

May 29, 2006

thanks needs a good shock Maybe your letter will make him think. Just because he feels nothing it doesnt mean there is nothing wrong. He must take advice and start to getr rid . My husband has just remarked Sex is no longer an issue his libido has disappeared He says it is all in the head and no longer important !!!!! And I being the same age am greatful for a bit of peace!!!!!After 46 years of marriage there is no need to have a headach any more!!!!!

joan cooper

Reply-To: ProstateCancerSupport To: <ProstateCancerSupport >Subject: Re: female hormones/ZoladexDate: Mon, 29 May 2006 12:07:03 -0700Hi .I have been on Lupron shots for 2 years. For me it has meant breast enlargement, weight gain (17lbs), frequent hot flashes and a tendency to weep watching sad TV. I am older than you (75) but enjoyed sex frequently before my Cryosurgery. After the surgery I was ED but still wished I could get it up. One year after the surgery it was apparent that it had failed to kill all the tumor because my PSA had risen to 6.5. The Lupron reduced my PSA to undetectable a month after the first shot and it has remained there for almost 2 years. Another thing that it did was destroy my libido so now no sex is no big deal. I get along fine without it and sometimes wonder why I was so hung up on it.Getting Prostate cancer is a major bummer. Fighting it is huge hassle. But.........if we do not fight it we will soon be staring at the underside of a casket lid for eternity. That, my friend, would really make you messed up.I wish you all the best in whatever you decide."il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway"First it is necessary for one to endure" RE: female>> hormones!!!!>>>>>>>> thanks for the info on the side effects of hormone>> treatment. i read that younger men have severe side>> effects versus older men. why do the doctors tell me>> "since your young you should not have severe side>> effects" how can i get more info on this. I am 43>> and>> have had no treatment yet. my Gleason is 8 and psa>> 25.7>> why i am i being told my age is a plus. where can i>> get more info that substantiates your info.>>>> --- Terry Herbert >> wrote:>>>> > Hi Joan and ,>> >>> >>> >>> > The symptoms of side effects you describe, Joan>> are>> > amongst the wide range>> > encountered by men on ADT (Androgen Deprivation>> > Therapy). If you go along to>> > this website>> >>>> http://www.prostate-cancer.org/powerpoint/online/ADS_Strum_files/v3_document>> > .htm and, using the left side to click on ADS>> Signs>> > and Symptoms, you will>> > see a description of what might be expected,>> > together, as you page down,>> > with some suggestions to alleviate these.>> >>> >>> >>> > As has said the side effects vary from man>> to>> > man and also depend on>> > individual reactions to the drugs being used.>> > Sometimes a change of the>> > drugs will lessen the side effects. The>> intermittent>> > therapy can also help,>> > although this is not an accepted practice in the>> > medical world.>> >>> >>> >>> > Joan, you should also be aware that the recovery>> > after treatment can vary>> > enormously. Some men recover their libido and>> > sexual ability fairly>> > quickly, others take a year or more - and some>> never>> > recover. The breast>> > enlargement, if it occurs, is usually permanent.>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > All the best>> >>> >>> >>> > Terry Herbert>> >>> > in Melbourne Australia>> >>> > Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason>> > 3+3=6: No treatment. June>> > '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%>> >>> > My site is at>> > www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za>> >>> > It is a tragedy of the world that no one knows>> what>> > he doesn't know, and the>> > less a man knows, the more sure he is that he>> knows>> > everything. Joyce>> > Carey>> >>> >>>> === message truncated ===>>> __________________________________________________>

May 29, 2006

Hi - My husband was diagnosed just before Christmas last

year. He was 46. We were stunned and have done much research.

The urologist said the only way to go was surgery and the more we read

about it and the side effects the stronger my husband felt about not

having surgery. He, too, felt and still feels that sex is an

important part of life for him. I just want him to be around and

healthy. We were concerned that the doctors we consulted would want

him to have the procedure that was their specialty and we wanted some

straight answers.

Through a Pca support group we were referred to Dr. Myers in

Earlysville, VA for a second opinion and consultation. He does not

perform any procedures, he evaluates and makes recommendations. He is

a prostate cancer " survivor " , researcher and onconologist We saw him

and discussed the options that my husband had/has.

He chose to go to the Dattoli Cancer Center for radiation followed by

brachytherapy.

Dr. Myers put him on hormones, I don't have the bottles in front of me

to provide the names but I know that there are two pills,one is

Casodex. He has had a Lupron shot and will have to have 2 or 3 more.

The urologist my husband saw all but refused to give him the shot of

Lupron. Called it chemical castration and doesn't agree with the

treatment he has chosen.

My husband has been in Florida receiving his treatments since April

24. He came home (we live in Virginia)over mother's day weekend and

said that he could not even have a sexual thought. We were aware that

this would happen. We are also aware that it passes as the hormones

diminish. In fact, I undersand that it is possible in some cases to

have strictly hormone treatment (no surgery or radiation).

My husband came home again this weekend and we were able to be intimate.

I completely understand your quality of life vs. quantity of life

position but I also think that it is foolish to base a life or death

decision on sex.

Before deciding on Dattoli, we were able to speak with men that had

been patients there and were soooo encouraged by their success and

recovery.

You are very young and have a lot of living to do. Make a smart

decision for yourself. If we can help you with more information or

insight from what we have learned PLEASE don't hesitate to contact us.

May 29, 2006

,

I was diagnosed in January of 2002 with PCa, Gleason of 3+4=7, Graded T3b, PSA of 7.

Went with the IMRT radiation, 44 treatments, and on Zolodex (similar to Lupron) and Casodex for two years. I had no breast enlargement due to getting three treatments of radiation to my breast area prior to starting the prostate radiation.

Hot flashes? You bet! Big deal? No. Nada. After all, women have been having them forever. Figured that they would at worst be an inconvenience. Know something? That's all they were. Showed me the meds were working. Have not gained any weight. True, that is usually a side-effect, but that's also a side-effect of too many rips through the fast food lanes.

Yeah, you want to live the good life on the beach and all of that, but shit happens. You can still live a pretty good life. Live is the keyword in that sentence. Yes, I am impotent, but so are dead men. I do not think about sex, so it's not a huge deal. If sex were all there was to life, I think it would be a shallow life, at best.

I cannot urge you strongly enough to start deciding what treatment you want, and get the ball rolling. No one on this wanted to be on it, so you are not alone.

The best to you.

K.

RE: female> >> hormones!!!!> >>> >>> >>> >> thanks for the info on the side effects of> hormone> >> treatment. i read that younger men have severe> side> >> effects versus older men. why do the doctors tell> me> >> "since your young you should not have severe side> >> effects" how can i get more info on this. I am 43> >> and> >> have had no treatment yet. my Gleason is 8 and> psa> >> 25.7> >> why i am i being told my age is a plus. where can> i> >> get more info that substantiates your info.> >>> >> --- Terry Herbert > >> wrote:> >>> >> > Hi Joan and ,> >> >> >> >> === message truncated ===__________________________________________________

May 29, 2006

thanks roger...i thought after hormone treatment your

sexual desires return ? I saw a radiation oncolgist

last week and he said i would get the imrt along with

the hormones(2 years). I do understand shit happens

and I have been dealt a shitty hand but I will

exhaust every measure before I give up and say " inject

me " and " radiate me " . I like my life the way it is and

bye the way could i ask your age ? If it's 60 OR 70 I

understand but if you say your my age(43) and your

impotant and your cool with that ? I am not that far

along in the acceptance area.

p.s I dont always think about sex ! cars,football and

earning a good living. as a single guy that really

never intended on getting married or had no interest

in long term relationships....what else does a single

guy think of ?

--- Kimble wrote:

> ,

>

> I was diagnosed in January of 2002 with PCa, Gleason

> of 3+4=7, Graded T3b, PSA of 7.

>

> Went with the IMRT radiation, 44 treatments, and on

> Zolodex (similar to Lupron) and Casodex for two

> years. I had no breast enlargement due to getting

> three treatments of radiation to my breast area

> prior to starting the prostate radiation.

>

> Hot flashes? You bet! Big deal? No. Nada. After

> all, women have been having them forever. Figured

> that they would at worst be an inconvenience. Know

> something? That's all they were. Showed me the

> meds were working. Have not gained any weight.

> True, that is usually a side-effect, but that's also

> a side-effect of too many rips through the fast food

> lanes.

>

> Yeah, you want to live the good life on the beach

> and all of that, but shit happens. You can still

> live a pretty good life. Live is the keyword in

> that sentence. Yes, I am impotent, but so are dead

> men. I do not think about sex, so it's not a huge

> deal. If sex were all there was to life, I think it

> would be a shallow life, at best.

>

> I cannot urge you strongly enough to start deciding

> what treatment you want, and get the ball rolling.

> No one on this wanted to be on it, so you are not

> alone.

>

> The best to you.

>

> K.

> RE: female

> > hormones/Zoladex

> >

> > > thanks

> > > if this felow got 1 shot 7 months ago and

> still

> > has

> > > side effects that's scary. I am expected to be

> on

> > this

> > > stuff for 2 or 3 years so i will be pretty

> messed

> > > up.do you agree ?

> > >

> > > --- Terry Herbert

> > wrote:

> > >

> > >> How long is a piece of string, Nat. From all

> I

> > have

> > >> read, the time varies

> > >> tremendously from man to man. Hope yours are

> gone

> > >> soon.

> > >>

> > >> All the best

> > >>

> > >> Terry Herbert

> > >>

> > >> in Melbourne Australia

> > >>

> > >> Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2:

> > Gleason

> > >> 3+3=6: No treatment. June

> > >> '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

> > >>

> > >> My site is at

> > >> www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

> > >>

> > >> It is a tragedy of the world that no one

> knows

> > what

> > >> he doesn't know, and the

> > >> less a man knows, the more sure he is that he

> > knows

> > >> everything. Joyce

> > >> Carey

> > >>

> > >> _____

> > >>

> > >> From: ProstateCancerSupport

> > >>

> [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

May 29, 2006

Welcome, .

Let me tell you a bit about myself and my family. Won't bore you, promise. At least will try not to.

I have a daughter that will turn 30 next month. Ten years ago she was diagnosed with a disease that requires about every letter of the alphabet to spell. What essentially it does is turn the fascia inside the skin into fiber, creating a very thick muscle covering that normally is so thin you can see through it. It is extremely painful, and she was on morphine and it's derivatives for several years. Pain, unrelenting, 24/7. The disease is related to Scleraderma, and is very much like it. When she was diagnosed, there were only 200 known cases in the world. We have taken her to the Mayo Clinic, Wake Forest University Med Center, and have made probably 100 trips to Duke University Medical Center. Since there are so few cases, the pharma companies do not research it. She has lost all of her years in her twenties, being totally disabled. BTW, her IQ is 160, and she is a college graduate. But can do nothing with it. Friends went south when she became ill long term, and a boy friend is out of the question. She has had 6 operations in the last 14 months. I am not counting those that came before. She tries very hard every day to lead a normal life, as much as she can. She worries about other people, about global warming, about the loss of habitat for creatures of the world, about the horrendous war in Iraq and I could go on and on.

For some reason, football isn't on her list. Neither are shiny new cars and her life style. She once told me if she could just get better, she would work every day at Wal-Mart for the rest of her life and would be happy, just knowing the pain was gone and she was well.

My age. Yes. 64 when diagnosed, 68 now. But before you draw that smile, wait. Had my first heart attack at age 40, then another 6 years later. Worked in between. I was a wreck, physically and emotionally. Finally came to grips with it. Went back to work again, after the second attack and a suitable period of recuperating. Football, basketball, and so o wasn't on my A list either. Too shallow a life, my friend. More to it than those things. Don't mean this harshly, but you need to look at what is really important, and really look at it in depth. Maybe this is a wake-up call. Not trying to be rude, or cause anger, but damn, you aren't making a lot of sense to me. Seems to me you would be happy the PCa was caught and you have a chance to live.

Best wishes,

K.

RE: female> > hormones/Zoladex> > > > > > > thanks> > > if this felow got 1 shot 7 months ago and> still> > has> > > side effects that's scary. I am expected to be> on> > this> > > stuff for 2 or 3 years so i will be pretty> messed> > > up.do you agree ?> > >> > > --- Terry Herbert > > wrote:> > >> > >> How long is a piece of string, Nat. From all> I> > have> > >> read, the time varies> > >> tremendously from man to man. Hope yours are> gone> > >> soon.> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> All the best> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> Terry Herbert> > >>> > >> in Melbourne Australia> > >>> > >> Diagnosed '96: Age 54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2:> > Gleason> > >> 3+3=6: No treatment. June> > >> '04: TURP. Mar '06 PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%> > >>> > >> My site is at> > >> www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za> > >>> > >> It is a tragedy of the world that no one> knows> > what> > >> he doesn't know, and the> > >> less a man knows, the more sure he is that he> > knows> > >> everything. Joyce> > >> Carey> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> _____> > >>> > >> From: ProstateCancerSupport > > >>> [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] === message truncated ===__________________________________________________

May 29, 2006

have nice evening roger

I will pray for your child.

--- Kimble wrote:

> Welcome, .

>

> Let me tell you a bit about myself and my family.

> Won't bore you, promise. At least will try not to.

>

> I have a daughter that will turn 30 next month. Ten

> years ago she was diagnosed with a disease that

> requires about every letter of the alphabet to

> spell. What essentially it does is turn the fascia

> inside the skin into fiber, creating a very thick

> muscle covering that normally is so thin you can see

> through it. It is extremely painful, and she was on

> morphine and it's derivatives for several years.

> Pain, unrelenting, 24/7. The disease is related to

> Scleraderma, and is very much like it. When she was

> diagnosed, there were only 200 known cases in the

> world. We have taken her to the Mayo Clinic, Wake

> Forest University Med Center, and have made probably

> 100 trips to Duke University Medical Center. Since

> there are so few cases, the pharma companies do not

> research it. She has lost all of her years in her

> twenties, being totally disabled. BTW, her IQ is

> 160, and she is a college graduate. But can do

> nothing with it. Friends went south when she became

> ill long term, and a boy friend is out of the

> question. She has had 6 operations in the last 14

> months. I am not counting those that came before.

> She tries very hard every day to lead a normal life,

> as much as she can. She worries about other people,

> about global warming, about the loss of habitat for

> creatures of the world, about the horrendous war in

> Iraq and I could go on and on.

>

> For some reason, football isn't on her list.

> Neither are shiny new cars and her life style. She

> once told me if she could just get better, she would

> work every day at Wal-Mart for the rest of her life

> and would be happy, just knowing the pain was gone

> and she was well.

>

> My age. Yes. 64 when diagnosed, 68 now. But

> before you draw that smile, wait. Had my first

> heart attack at age 40, then another 6 years later.

> Worked in between. I was a wreck, physically and

> emotionally. Finally came to grips with it. Went

> back to work again, after the second attack and a

> suitable period of recuperating. Football,

> basketball, and so o wasn't on my A list either.

> Too shallow a life, my friend. More to it than

> those things. Don't mean this harshly, but you need

> to look at what is really important, and really look

> at it in depth. Maybe this is a wake-up call. Not

> trying to be rude, or cause anger, but damn, you

> aren't making a lot of sense to me. Seems to me you

> would be happy the PCa was caught and you have a

> chance to live.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> K.

> Re: female

> > hormones/Zoladex

> >

> > thanks for your experience but if you were 43

> and

> > had

> > no symptoms and knowing what you know now (how

> > your

> > body would react) would you make the same

> decision

> > ?

> > it's not all about sex for me. the hot

> > flashes,breast

> > enlargement and weight gain are a big deal for

> me

> > also

> > but i am told the recurrence rate is real high

> > also. i

> > am afraid on having all these side affects and

> > possibly for nothing because it will probably

> > (50%)

> > chance. a coin flip ! So with that being said

> and

> > now

> > i can mention the fact that my life has been

> built

> > to

> > enjoy it like a single man living on the beach

> in

> > southern Cali with no kids and never married

> and

> > all

> > the " stuff " i could want. I am not a fatalist

> nor

> > do i

> > have death wish but can you tell me honestly

> you

> > would

> > take the hormones (lupron) and external beam

> > (IMRT)

> > with no symptoms ? because of what the doctors

> > think !

> > my psa is 25;7 and my Gleason is 8. one doctor

> > said i

> > could live ten years with no symptoms but if i

> > follow

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

May 29, 2006

Hi allstar,

I believe that there are natural medications out there with little or no side effects.

It was only after being diagnosed and having RP that I started looking around.

There are probably thousands of different prostate cancers each with their own specific pattern and since pharmaceutical medications are by their very nature very specific it is very hit or miss.

I would suggest talking to several Chinese and Japanese herbalists and maybe trying to locate some of the original PC-spes-c, not the American adulterated version.

Best of luck.

Larry

__________________________________________________

May 30, 2006

Let me

tell you the way this is going to fall out most likely!

First

You seem

to know the major side effects of HT and RP so I’ll skip that.

Second

I’m going

to assume a proven biopsy that you have PC, which you may not. It might be BPH

According

to the NIH and ACS your life expectency is around 5 years. This is an average,

some men that you hear about live longer with treatment and treatments are

getting better though not great enough to shout about.

Third

Put that

aside and lets talk about what if you do nothing. As the diease advances you

will find blood in your urine. You will find it hurts to ejaculate and it will

be bloody.

All the

while this is going on its going to be more difficult to get it up and keep it

stiff. It will bend in the middle and be quite an embarrassment. That was my

experience and i'm sure it’s the same for others. So my man, do nothing and you

lose “no sex” or take the treatments and live longer and have sex with a little

help. BTW I’m in my 50’s.

-----Original

Message-----

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]On

Behalf Of Hicks

Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 3:49 PM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

female hormones/Zoladex

thanks for

your experience but if you were 43 and had

no symptoms and knowing what you know now (how your

body would react) would you make the same decision ?

it's not all about sex for me. the hot flashes,breast

enlargement and weight gain are a big deal for me also

June 1, 2006

Sam,

Your post illustrates only too well the

point I was trying to make about the vagueness of statements such as the ones

you have quoted.

Take the first statement: <snip> ……

the 5-year survival rate for those men

diagnosed with advanced cancer is only 34%. <snip> What does

this mean? How is ‘advanced cancer’ defined? It would almost

certainly be a diagnosis that includes widespread metastasis and would likely

have a rocketing PSA in the hundreds or thousands and very likely a Gleason

Score of 9 or 10. The fourth article you quote says <snip> The 5-year relative survival rate for men whose

prostate cancers have already spread to distant parts of the body at the time

of diagnosis is about 34%. <snip> Is it coincidental that both these reports have the

same percentage? Perhaps they are both quoting the same source – unfortunately

neither identifies where the figure comes from so it is not possible to check.

The second study you quote says <snip>

One estimate shows that, on average, 46% of

patients with metastatic disease die about 22 months after diagnosis, and

approximately 70% of all patients diagnosed with metastatic disease die within

5 years. <snip> We have to assume that the deaths referred to

are all disease specific, although this is not stated anywhere. Note initially that there is no

indication of what is meant by ‘metastasic disease’ in this quote –

that could mean anything from one spot on the bone in the leg to extensive

spots all over the spine and ribcage; note too that it is ‘one ESTIMATE’ and that the article from which you

extracted the information gives no source or reference for this figure. The statement that ‘….46% of

patients with metastatic disease die about 22 months after diagnosis….’

is just plain nonsense. It is simply impossible to think of 46% dying AT 22

months. The median survival time of 46% might be 22 months, it might even be

that 46% die within 22 months, but they can’t all die ‘about 22

months after diagnosis’. That is just sloppy. It also of passing

interest to note that according to this it is estimated that 54% of these

patients survive for longer than two years and that 30% survive longer than

five years.

The third article you quote shows 5-year survival

rates for what is termed “Locally advanced cancer” (again undefined)

as 87% for Whites and 69% for Blacks whilst the relevant rates for what is

termed “Metastatic cancer” (again undefined) is shown as 30% for

Whites and 23% for Blacks. This quote

gores on to say <snip> The 5-year survival rate shows the percentage of

people who are still alive 5 years or more after they are diagnosed. It is

important to remember that these are only averages.

Everyone's case is different, and these numbers do not show what will happen in

your case <snip> There is an interesting point here, which was made clear

in the Albertsen study. Survival after prostate cancer diagnosis depends on the

age and state of health of the man concerned. If, as is stated here, the

figures show only the percentage of men left alive after 5 years, it does not

tell us how many died of prostate cancer. If you go to

the article from which these figures were extracted (for once there is a

reference) at http://tinyurl.com/o8e6q You will see the statement <snip> Conflicting

data have been published regarding the etiology of these outcomes, but some

evidence is available that access to care may play a role in disease outcomes. <snip>. There are three references to back up this statement:

one refers to data gathered between 1975 (well before the PSA era) and 2002;

the second refers to a study of survival rates in Tobago amongst West African

descended tobacco workers and the third refers to a study at http://tinyurl.com/lz2cp

which concludes <snip> Survival

among blacks is similar to that among whites and may surpass it for high-stage

disease. <snip> - again no definition of ‘high-stage disease.

So just how valid are the figures quoted in the article you cite?

You conclude by saying <snip> It is

not misleading its facing the beast head on with our heads out of the sand. <snip>

, the implication being that I have my head in the sand. Well I don’t. I

have been living with this disease for almost 10 years now and I have seen many

men die, some of them good friends, one of my oldest pals died of PCa within five

months of my being diagnosed; two more went the following year. I have

consistently reiterated over the years that it can be a dangerous and deadly

disease, but at the same time I see no necessity to fire off shotgun scary

information. I believe every man who wants to take responsibility for his health

should investigate his own position thoroughly, gain a good understanding of

what likely odds APPLY TO HIM and choose the treatment that suits him best, whatever

that is.

So, turning to Hicks, the man you

were mailing,: how much of what you have posted applies to him? Does he have ‘advanced

cancer”? Does he have ‘locally advanced cancer? Is he Black or

White? The estimated survival times in your third article show about a 50 percentage

point between these latter terms. Does he really have a life expectancy of

around five years as you posted? ’It seems to me to be unlikely

that he has ‘advanced cancer’, although he may well have locally

advanced cancer. After all, he said in one mail <snip> …..my psa is

25;7 and my Gleason is 8. one doctor said i could live ten years with no

symptoms ……..<snip> As I recall, without going through all

’ postings, I am pretty certain that there is no sign of

metastasis as yet. So does the 5 year survival rate you quote apply to him? And

if it doesn’t, why depress/frighten/scare/panic him by providing

irrelevant information?

The fourth article you referred to says <snip>

Unfortunately, it is impossible to have completely up-to-date survival figures.

To realistically measure 10-year survival rates, we must have records of

patients diagnosed at least 13 years ago. We need 10 years of follow-up plus

the time it takes to assemble the data. Modern methods of detection and

treatment now mean that prostate cancers are detected earlier and treated more

effectively, which has led to a yearly drop in death rate of about 3.5% in

recent years. This means that if you are diagnosed this year, your outlook is

probably better than the numbers above.. <snip> I believe that is a

good point for you to ponder on.

All the best

Terry Herbert

in Melbourne

Australia

Diagnosed ‘96: Age

54: Stage T2b: PSA 7.2: Gleason 3+3=6: No treatment. June '04: TURP. Mar '06

PSA 17.40 fPSA 23%

My site is at

www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

It is a

tragedy of the world that no one knows what he doesn’t know, and the less

a man knows, the more sure he is that he knows everything. Joyce

Carey

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ]

On Behalf Of sam mcdaniel

Sent: 01 June 2006 01:56 AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: RE: female hormones/Zoladex

Terry I can certainly find more information is you want. The figures

from the ACS are revised 2006.

It is not misleading its facing the beast head on with our heads out of

the sand.

http://aztec.asu.edu/azustoo/pcafacts_05forpsa.doc

PREVENTIVE MEASURES:

-All men after 40 years of age should have an annual digital rectal

examination (DRE).

-All men 50 years and older should be offered a prostate specific

antigen blood test (PSA) annually by their doctors. If not offered, men

should request information about this test and insist on having a PSA

evaluation.

-Men with a family history of prostate cancer and African American

men should be offered a PSA test annually starting at age 45. If not

offered, these men should request information about this test from

their doctors while mentioning their family history or racial risk and

request the PSA be done

-African American men with a family history of prostate cancer should

start testing at age 40 or even earlier depending on their familial

degree of risk.

-The 5-year survival rate for

patients whose cancer is caught while

still confined to the prostate is 100%,

while the 5-year survival rate

for those men diagnosed with advanced

cancer is only 34%.

-Prostate cancer often develops without symptoms. Annually testing

with PSA and DRE can lead to early detection and cancer confined to the

prostate that has a significantly higher cure rate. Awareness about the

risk of prostate cancer is a critical issue for Arizona's families.

http://www.prostateline.com/ProstateLineHCP/9898_12093_4_5_0.aspx?ch=...

Survival rates for patients diagnosed

with a prostate cancer that has

breached the prostatic capsule is poor

and patients with metastatic

disease have the lowest predicted

survival rates of all. One estimate

shows that, on average, 46% of patients

with metastatic disease die

about 22 months after diagnosis, and

approximately 70% of all patients

diagnosed with metastatic disease die

within 5 years.

Assessing prognostic outcome is especially critical for patients with

early, localised disease, whose cancer is still manageable and

potentially curable. Prognostic factors can give an indication of how

likely the disease is to recur following treatment and the subsequent

survival probability of the patient. Some variables can be used to

predict or eliminate certain courses of treatment.

http://www.peacehealth.org/kbase/topic/major/hw78220/riskfact.htm

Ethnicity and 5-year survival rate (percentage of men with prostate

cancer who survive for 5 years or longer)6

Diagnosis White Black

Cancer that has not spread 95% 88%

Locally advanced cancer 87% 69%

Metastatic cancer 30% 23%

The 5-year survival rate shows the percentage of people who are still

alive 5 years or more after they are diagnosed. It is important to

remember that these are only averages.

Everyone's case is different,

and these numbers do not show what will happen in your case.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_1X_What_are_the_key_statistics_for_prostate_cancer_36.asp?sitearea=

Detailed Guide: Prostate Cancer

What Are the Key Statistics About Prostate Cancer?

Prostate cancer is the most common cancer, excluding

skin cancers, in American men. The American Cancer Society (ACS) estimates

that during 2006 about 234,460 new cases of prostate cancer will be diagnosed

in the United States.

About 1 man in 6 will be diagnosed with prostate cancer during his lifetime,

but only 1 man in 34 in the US

population will die of this disease. A little over 1.8 million men in the United States

are survivors of prostate cancer.

Prostate cancer is a leading cause of cancer death

in American men. The American Cancer Society estimates that 27,350 men in the

United States

will die of prostate cancer during 2006. Prostate cancer accounts for about

9% of cancer-related deaths in men.

Ninety-one percent of all prostate cancers are found

in the local and regional stages (local means it is still confined to the

prostate; regional means it has spread from the prostate to nearby areas, but

not to distant sites such as bone). The 5-year relative survival rate for all

of these men is nearly 100%.

The 5-year relative survival rate for men whose

prostate cancers have already spread to distant parts of the body at the time

of diagnosis is about 34%.

Five-year and 10-year survival rates refer to the

percentage of men who live at least 5 or 10 years after their prostate cancer

is first diagnosed. Relative

survival rates assume that people will die of other causes and compare the

observed survival with that expected for people without prostate cancer. That

means that relative survival only talks about deaths from prostate cancer.

Because prostate cancer usually occurs in older men who often have other

health problems, relative survival rates are generally used to produce a

standard way of discussing prognosis (outlook for survival).

Unfortunately, it is impossible to have completely

up-to-date survival figures. To realistically measure 10-year survival rates,

we must have records of patients diagnosed at least 13 years ago. We need 10

years of follow-up plus the time it takes to assemble the data.

Modern methods of detection and treatment now mean

that prostate cancers are detected earlier and treated more effectively,

which has led to a yearly drop in death rate of about 3.5% in recent years.

This means that if you are diagnosed this year, your outlook is probably

better than the numbers above.

Revised: 04/04/2006

http://training.seer.cancer.gov/ss_module02_prostate/unit01_sec05_survival_rates.html

Prognosis is strongly affected by the grade of tumor. Involvement of

seminal vesicles is an important prognostic indicator.

Grade Vs. 5-Year Survival (from Textbook of Clinical Oncology, third

edition)

G1 60%

G2 35%

G3 15%

G4 5%

Stage Vs. 5-Year Disease-free Survival with Treatment (from the

National Cancer Institute's Physician Data Query system, July, 2002)

American Urologic Association (AUA) Staging System

A1 occult cancer--usually not treated

A2 > 90%

B1 85% (50% 10-year disease-free survival with treatment)

B2 85% (37% 10-year disease-free survival with treatment)

C 48%

D 21% (all metastatic cases)

Terry

Herbert wrote:

This statement

<snip> According to the NIH and ACS

your life expectency is around 5 years. This is an average, some men that you

hear about live longer with treatment and treatments are getting better though

not great enough to shout about. <snip>

is in my opinion incorrect and misleading.

Please provide the URLs for the sites that show this.

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RE: female hormones/Zoladex

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