RE: Non-office offices?

February 15, 2012

Should be doable. My understanding is that this is also a red flag for the IRS

and audits, so be sure to do it correctly.

________________________________________

From:

[ ] On Behalf Of Ken Stone

[slowgenius@...]

Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:31 AM

To:

Subject: Non-office offices?

Anybody on this list going with an in-home or other non-commercial real-estate

sort of office setup? By my way of thinking, in many communities it shouldn't be

too hard for a micropractice to get a zoning variance to be able to set up a

one-room shop in a residential neighborhood (so long as parking wasn't going to

be an issue for the neighbors). Given the relative priciness of commercial

real-estate, this seems like it would save a LOT of money. Obviously it opens up

a few other issues, but I'm wondering if anybody has seen this work in modern

times?

Ken

February 15, 2012

so does " Sharkin " Sharlene Kinney in NY

Myria tried but had zoning trouble

Don does in WA state.

We considered it, briefly. And decided to stick with an office separate from our home. I believe Sharon works from her home in Irvine, CA. Pratt

Anybody on this list going with an in-home or other non-commercial real-estate sort of office setup? By my way of thinking, in many communities it shouldn't be too hard for a micropractice to get a zoning variance to be able to set up a one-room shop in a residential neighborhood (so long as parking wasn't going to be an issue for the neighbors). Given the relative priciness of commercial real-estate, this seems like it would save a LOT of money. Obviously it opens up a few other issues, but I'm wondering if anybody has seen this work in modern times?

Ken

-- MD ph fax

February 15, 2012

Yes, as said, I have been practicing out of my home since 10/08. If you

want to see, go to www.berkshirefamilymed.com. I have a nice sign out front, but

don't think it was up, yet, when those pix were taken. No inside pictures, but

it is really nice, with office/exam room, small " no-waiting " area, huge bathroom

great for wheelchairs, and a lab/storeroom. I am on a 2-lane state highway in a

tiny village in rural, central NY, where there are really no zoning rules. Of

course, I called the town clerk to check before purchasing the house, which we

picked specifically b/c it is the perfect place to have an office. It saves a

lot on overhead. We take the appropriate deductions from our mortgage, taxes,

and heating expenses, but are conservative in calculating those, in case of an

audit. The IRS puts out a brochure about how to determine that your home office

really qualifies. I really like working from home, since I am slow and was

spending all my time at work before. If I am going to work all the time, I

would rather do it from home than elsewhere. I also see my husband a lot more,

since he is my only staff, taking phone calls and doing billing, scanning and

other stuff from our kitchen. Luckily, we get along well! Our kids are grown,

and I don't think this would work well for me if I had young ones at home,

although I guess some folks do it. There are some boundary issues, in that I am

never really " away " from my work, but I think the advantages outweigh the

disadvantages, for me. My patients are pretty respectful, but I am also pretty

laid-back and do not get too upset if somebody (rarely) drives in unannounced

because they are having an emergency. I see myself as a small-town doctor, and

that's what we do. Usually, they call and I can tell them if I would rather they

go to the walk-in clinic or ER. If they do something I would rather they didn't,

I gently educate them about what they should do next time. When I do decide to

see someone outside of regular office hours, it is wonderfully convenient for me

not to even need to leave my house!---Sharlene

>

> Anybody on this list going with an in-home or other non-commercial real-estate

sort of office setup? By my way of thinking, in many communities it shouldn't

be too hard for a micropractice to get a zoning variance to be able to set up a

one-room shop in a residential neighborhood (so long as parking wasn't going to

be an issue for the neighbors). Given the relative priciness of commercial

real-estate, this seems like it would save a LOT of money. Obviously it opens

up a few other issues, but I'm wondering if anybody has seen this work in modern

times?

>

> Ken

>

February 15, 2012

I practice in a church! Very low rent Izquierdo-Porrera MD PhDExecutive Director & Co-founderCare for Your Health, IncPhone " Don't ever let injustice go by unchallenged. " From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of sharkinnSent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:04 PMTo: Subject: Re: Non-office offices? Yes, as said, I have been practicing out of my home since 10/08. If you want to see, go to www.berkshirefamilymed.com. I have a nice sign out front, but don't think it was up, yet, when those pix were taken. No inside pictures, but it is really nice, with office/exam room, small " no-waiting " area, huge bathroom great for wheelchairs, and a lab/storeroom. I am on a 2-lane state highway in a tiny village in rural, central NY, where there are really no zoning rules. Of course, I called the town clerk to check before purchasing the house, which we picked specifically b/c it is the perfect place to have an office. It saves a lot on overhead. We take the appropriate deductions from our mortgage, taxes, and heating expenses, but are conservative in calculating those, in case of an audit. The IRS puts out a brochure about how to determine that your home office really qualifies. I really like working from home, since I am slow and was spending all my time at work before. If I am going to work all the time, I would rather do it from home than elsewhere. I also see my husband a lot more, since he is my only staff, taking phone calls and doing billing, scanning and other stuff from our kitchen. Luckily, we get along well! Our kids are grown, and I don't think this would work well for me if I had young ones at home, although I guess some folks do it. There are some boundary issues, in that I am never really " away " from my work, but I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, for me. My patients are pretty respectful, but I am also pretty laid-back and do not get too upset if somebody (rarely) drives in unannounced because they are having an emergency. I see myself as a small-town doctor, and that's what we do. Usually, they call and I can tell them if I would rather they go to the walk-in clinic or ER. If they do something I would rather they didn't, I gently educate them about what they should do next time. When I do decide to see someone outside of regular office hours, it is wonderfully convenient for me not to even need to leave my house!---Sharlene>> Anybody on this list going with an in-home or other non-commercial real-estate sort of office setup? By my way of thinking, in many communities it shouldn't be too hard for a micropractice to get a zoning variance to be able to set up a one-room shop in a residential neighborhood (so long as parking wasn't going to be an issue for the neighbors). Given the relative priciness of commercial real-estate, this seems like it would save a LOT of money. Obviously it opens up a few other issues, but I'm wondering if anybody has seen this work in modern times?> > Ken>

February 15, 2012

I finally got a approval to build a home office. I purchased a home in Bellevue

WA in which the garage was converted to a bedroom (and I want to make it a home

office)

First comes the variance. In this you are trying to get permission from city use

your home as a micropractice. The neighbors have input in this. Apparently they

have to approve all - with restrictions. If they did not approve all, a music

teacher could not have anyone come to their home to learn music. The

restrictions are the Achilles heel. For me the restrictions were no more than 6

visits per day and hours 9 - 5. Also, I am not allowed to have a " waiting room "

as I am allowed to see only one patient at a time. There were no restrictions in

a nearby city where IMP is flourishing.

Then comes the building permit. at first it had to be handicapped accessible and

they were so strict that I was ready to cancel the project. We submitted plans

with the help of a architect (cost 5 - 7,000 $). Then magically the handicapped

requirements vanished. The permits cost about 2,000.

Then the construction (our construction starts tomorrow) and finally the sign

off by the home inspector.

The process is long and fairly stressful although doable.

1) Find a home with a mother in law apartment which will work really well.

2) Each city has different requirements so before buying a home check with the

city if it is doable.

3) Be Patient.- work moon lighting/urgent care till you get this going, may

take 6 months - 1 yr.

4) It could definitely be a part time work or working past 65.

5) If you do not make it handicapped accessible, the insurance co may not take

you on board.

Overall for me, I am considering moving once this is all done to buy my dream

house. The property value has increased, right now it is small and simple goals.

Uday Mehta

>

> Anybody on this list going with an in-home or other non-commercial real-estate

sort of office setup? By my way of thinking, in many communities it shouldn't

be too hard for a micropractice to get a zoning variance to be able to set up a

one-room shop in a residential neighborhood (so long as parking wasn't going to

be an issue for the neighbors). Given the relative priciness of commercial

real-estate, this seems like it would save a LOT of money. Obviously it opens

up a few other issues, but I'm wondering if anybody has seen this work in modern

times?

>

> Ken

>

February 15, 2012

I've been doing it out of my home for the past 5.5 years. It does depend on the city; and it can be surprising. Irvine, the master planned city, which usually wins the FBI's award for cities over 100k population for the least violent crime, has rules for everything, but somehow it was pretty easy for me to meet the requirements for the business home occupation permit:

The home occupation shall be an incidental and accessory use and shall not change the principal character of the dwelling unit.

The dwelling unit shall not be the primary point of customer pickup or delivery nor shall the home occupation cause a significant increase in vehicular traffic in the neighborhood.

A sexually oriented business shall not be permitted to be conducted as a home occupation business.

There shall be no signs or other exterior evidence relating to the home occupation.The home occupation may be conducted in the garage but shall not use any space required for off-street parking.

Only the residents of the dwelling unit may be employed in the home occupation.

Electrical or mechanical equipment which creates visible or audible interference in radio, television or telephone or causes fluctuations in line voltage outside the dwelling unit shall be prohibited.

The home occupation shall not create noise or odors in excess of that normally associated with a residential use.We also have home owner's association that had to approve, but luckily they just said it had to meet the city's code.

For me the legal issues: 1. no sign; 2. " significant increase in traffic " --very subjective and we have neighbors with many many cars and not much room. I have in my appointmentquest auto response to please park in driveway. I try to keep neighbors happy (free flu shots); and I am very low volume; 3. no employees except those in residence

It is nice to be home; I have two teens, so I'm always " around. " I am not contracted with insurance, but when I looked into disability law, I can meet by being willing to do home visits (I have a few steps into office) " providing reasonable accommodation. "

Personally, it works pretty well. Sometimes wish I could be really " off " but don't we all? I make people come in the separate entrance (if they come to front door, I walk outside from the office to greet them and bring them in that way) and keep them out of the rest of the house. For me membership practice makes it sustainable from a psychological as well as financial point of view. Generally, neighbors now know I'll do anything for them medically if they are members, but generally don't do anything medically if they aren't. Still toy with the idea of doing some fee for service (get calls I can't get into my doctor, so could you just listen to my lungs); but think resisting that helps set boundaries that are useful and healthy.

The nurse doing my malpractice cooperative site visit got a little nervous, but once I reviewed checklists and routines for visits, bio-waste disposal policy, etc. (Milo's, my therapy dog, license from International Therapy Dogs), she recognized that patients were actually at less risk than in a traditional office.

Sharon

Sharon McCoy MDRenaissance Family Medicine10 McClintock Court; Irvine, CA 92617PH: (949)387-5504 Fax: (949)281-2197 Toll free phone/fax: www.SharonMD.com

I finally got a approval to build a home office. I purchased a home in Bellevue WA in which the garage was converted to a bedroom (and I want to make it a home office)

First comes the variance. In this you are trying to get permission from city use your home as a micropractice. The neighbors have input in this. Apparently they have to approve all - with restrictions. If they did not approve all, a music teacher could not have anyone come to their home to learn music. The restrictions are the Achilles heel. For me the restrictions were no more than 6 visits per day and hours 9 - 5. Also, I am not allowed to have a " waiting room " as I am allowed to see only one patient at a time. There were no restrictions in a nearby city where IMP is flourishing.

Then comes the building permit. at first it had to be handicapped accessible and they were so strict that I was ready to cancel the project. We submitted plans with the help of a architect (cost 5 - 7,000 $). Then magically the handicapped requirements vanished. The permits cost about 2,000.

Then the construction (our construction starts tomorrow) and finally the sign off by the home inspector.

The process is long and fairly stressful although doable.

1) Find a home with a mother in law apartment which will work really well.

2) Each city has different requirements so before buying a home check with the city if it is doable.

3) Be Patient.- work moon lighting/urgent care till you get this going, may take 6 months - 1 yr.

4) It could definitely be a part time work or working past 65.

5) If you do not make it handicapped accessible, the insurance co may not take you on board.

Overall for me, I am considering moving once this is all done to buy my dream house. The property value has increased, right now it is small and simple goals.

Uday Mehta

>

> Anybody on this list going with an in-home or other non-commercial real-estate sort of office setup? By my way of thinking, in many communities it shouldn't be too hard for a micropractice to get a zoning variance to be able to set up a one-room shop in a residential neighborhood (so long as parking wasn't going to be an issue for the neighbors). Given the relative priciness of commercial real-estate, this seems like it would save a LOT of money. Obviously it opens up a few other issues, but I'm wondering if anybody has seen this work in modern times?

>

> Ken

>

February 16, 2012

As mentioned, I have been working out of my home since 2007. A discussion of my experience after 6 months is here, on the IMP Wiki. I have changed a few things since then, including starting an hour later every day, so I have time to walk our dogs. Perhaps I will write a 5-year follow-up piece later this year. One thing that may become an issue is that the city I live in is planning to put significantly more restrictions on home businesses soon. The most concerning proposal is limiting the number of visitors a day to a home office to 6. I currently average about 10, and sometimes get up to 14 or more. I would have gone to the City Council meetings to complain about the proposed changes, but decided it would be better to keep a low profile, and not let anyone know how many people I am seeing. However, I actually would like to drop down to about 6 patients a day, so perhaps the restrictions will be a good thing for me, if I am ever forced to comply with them. All-in-all, my home office experience has been excellent. Not paying any extra rent for my office is a plus, but the biggest benefit is the lack of a commute and the ability to spend more time with my wife, who volunteers as CEO, receptionist, cleaning lady, and triage nurse. Don From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Ken StoneSent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:32 AMTo: Subject: Non-office offices? Anybody on this list going with an in-home or other non-commercial real-estate sort of office setup? By my way of thinking, in many communities it shouldn't be too hard for a micropractice to get a zoning variance to be able to set up a one-room shop in a residential neighborhood (so long as parking wasn't going to be an issue for the neighbors). Given the relative priciness of commercial real-estate, this seems like it would save a LOT of money. Obviously it opens up a few other issues, but I'm wondering if anybody has seen this work in modern times?Ken

February 17, 2012

I am in an apartment - half a duplex about half a mile from my home. Had to go

before the zoning board for a variance, mostly they talked about the traffic and

parking issues, neighbors came and were relieved to hear the expected number of

visit a day was low. Basically it went through because they really wanted the

village to have it's own doctor. My rent is very affordable, $630. The place is

badly insulated so my heat costs as much as the rent. Landlord was very relaxed

about the modifications I made (putting in a wheelchair ramp, a door, downstairs

toilet etc.) All that investment is lost of course if I move but it is paid off.

No inspections except by one insurer who tested my smoke detector and had a cup

of tea. Some ruffles when the landlord's son moved in to his half of the duplex

which is also the landlord's office: Dog doo in my vegetable garden and

offensive bumper stickers in the driveway. Folks asking if that 20 something

skinny bare chested man out there with the nipple rings is my husband :-)

I do love having a vegetable garden a long the ramp (It is a raised bed I put in

to keep the height to the ground from the ramp lower so I didn't need fancier

railings per safety codes.) Patients drag me out there to find out the names of

what is growing - ask how to cook kale, kids want to pick things - very nice

healthy eating advertisement.

Mostly the village apartment has works out well,

Avery

> >

> > Anybody on this list going with an in-home or other non-commercial

> > real-estate sort of office setup? By my way of thinking, in many

> > communities it shouldn't be too hard for a micropractice to get a zoning

> > variance to be able to set up a one-room shop in a residential neighborhood

> > (so long as parking wasn't going to be an issue for the neighbors). Given

> > the relative priciness of commercial real-estate, this seems like it would

> > save a LOT of money. Obviously it opens up a few other issues, but I'm

> > wondering if anybody has seen this work in modern times?

> >

> > Ken

> >

>

> --

>

> MD

>

> ph fax

>

February 17, 2012

Nice story!! Raised bed with vegetables instead of railing:)! excellent!I get to to the gardens outside also but I only do flowers Am hoping to order cheeseburger seeds this year...

I am in an apartment - half a duplex about half a mile from my home. Had to go before the zoning board for a variance, mostly they talked about the traffic and parking issues, neighbors came and were relieved to hear the expected number of visit a day was low. Basically it went through because they really wanted the village to have it's own doctor. My rent is very affordable, $630. The place is badly insulated so my heat costs as much as the rent. Landlord was very relaxed about the modifications I made (putting in a wheelchair ramp, a door, downstairs toilet etc.) All that investment is lost of course if I move but it is paid off. No inspections except by one insurer who tested my smoke detector and had a cup of tea. Some ruffles when the landlord's son moved in to his half of the duplex which is also the landlord's office: Dog doo in my vegetable garden and offensive bumper stickers in the driveway. Folks asking if that 20 something skinny bare chested man out there with the nipple rings is my husband :-)

I do love having a vegetable garden a long the ramp (It is a raised bed I put in to keep the height to the ground from the ramp lower so I didn't need fancier railings per safety codes.) Patients drag me out there to find out the names of what is growing - ask how to cook kale, kids want to pick things - very nice healthy eating advertisement.