Re: impressive ad about our military

[Guest guest]

>In this world, if you will not be the windshield, you're gonna be the bug.

_________________________________________________

What a statement! WOW!

So bugs, screw you, be gone, I am coming through!

If this is your philosophy, you are a Terrorist, Nazi,

and Roman invader. Pure and simple.

Bullies they are the windshields!

Really think who are the terrorists.

Don't be blinded by what is deliberately

created. The New World ORDER

will be a terrorizing world of darkness. We

will fear to be on the streets, fear to speak,

fear to write and express ourselves.

Internet suppression and control is already

before the Senate. Already martial law

is being established, as Obama has

signed Military right to arrest any US

citizen without constitutional representation.

Little by little, the Constitution is

becoming toilet paper, and no one

even objects. Wait, you aint seen nothing

yet. Its all happening so subtly step by step,

that most don't see anything.

Really look at what all the FEMA camps

are all about, if not to become Concentration

camps. There will be massive uprisings in the US.

This is without question and the powers are getting

ready for it. When the blind will remove their blindfolds,

and really see, it will be too late. "There is a crack in

everything, thats how the light gets in", Leonard Cohen.

The Senate is a "Bought Senate", pissing on the constitution,

and the people too ignorant to see it, and all this in the name

of a false created fear, Terrorism. Terrorism was a created foe

after the last foe Communism was ended in the name of big

business and Elite Globalism. There will always be created

enemies, disasters audaciously devised and executed to

established fear. Thats how they control.

"And of what kind are the men that will strive for this profitable preeminence, through all the bustle of cabal, the heat of contention, the infinite mutual abuse of parties, tearing to pieces the best of characters? It will not be the wise and moderate, the lovers of peace and good order, the men fittest for the trust. It will be the bold and the violent, the men of strong passions and indefatigable activity in their selfish pursuits. These will thrust themselves into your government and be your rulers." - Excerpt from "Dangers of a Salaried Bureaucracy" addressed to the Constitutional Convention members by lin in 1787

The last True President was JFK. The Presidency ended with him.

After him, they became puppets, nothing else.

_______________________________________________________

Re: impressive ad about our military

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/10/1044056/-Ron-s-Eye-Opening-Ad-on-our-Wars-This-Ad-Needs-to-go-Viral

no matter what your politics are this ad is impressiveThe reference to Rome was interesting and instructive. Evidently Mr. thinks that Rome was more bad than good, and not to be emulated. An awkward position for an American politician to take. Otherwise, I think it is an argument of false equivalence. Also, the breathless tone doesn't work at all, imo. I seem to be unable to restrain myself from saying that appears to be the most irresponsible of the major candidates, and that includes Pres. Obama. In this world, if you will not be the windshield, you're gonna be the bug.best,Dan

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.454 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4131 - Release Date: 01/08/12 19:34:00

[Guest guest]

>I seem to be unable to restrain myself from saying that appears to be the most irresponsible of the major candidates,

___________________________________________________

Actually Ron is the MOST responsible of all, and he is saying nothing different the the very founding fathers have. Let us not stay blinded by the fake insecurity they keep bombarding us with.

"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home." - Madison

"Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - lin

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Jefferson

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." -Abraham Lincoln

Steve Kalec

Re: impressive ad about our military

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/10/1044056/-Ron-s-Eye-Opening-Ad-on-our-Wars-This-Ad-Needs-to-go-Viral

no matter what your politics are this ad is impressiveThe reference to Rome was interesting and instructive. Evidently Mr. thinks that Rome was more bad than good, and not to be emulated. An awkward position for an American politician to take. Otherwise, I think it is an argument of false equivalence. Also, the breathless tone doesn't work at all, imo. I seem to be unable to restrain myself from saying that appears to be the most irresponsible of the major candidates, and that includes Pres. Obama. In this world, if you will not be the windshield, you're gonna be the bug.best,Dan

[Guest guest]

I did not even think about the thing about Rome....will have to look at it again.....i agree about the breathless tone, but these days people respond to breathless ......flat easy going way when talking about military take over I don't think will do it either. I wonder if you parents and grandparents have gone through military invasion. It is exactly like that, and that is what he wants to get across. If you noticed, what I put was that I was impressed by the ad and it had nothing to do with Ron that I sent it. It had everything to do with the military and war and that breathless tone is a good way to expose to people who are sleepless about it exactly what it feels like....gotta run. Probably typos here, but it is what it is. Again, I don't know why I am getting emails with responses to things that I am just receiving....like your response which someone is responding to it, when I just got it.....now, i'm thinking it is the once a day email system, I must be on.

[Guest guest]

Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he was saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels about how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are all bought out these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also think that a balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can, but we also need focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is lost. A lot of people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to be really awake to what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we just want to blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in to defeat. Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet on everyone.

Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions are. If things go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that created it. This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself and changing the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others around us, especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does have a ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they will create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no matter what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly battle which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real return of what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more eclectic practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go

wait a minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is going. So there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest you see the movies. In a river runs through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in the countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and the hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us and need us the most listen to us the least." The other is Star Man and the alien in the movie talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans being interesting, because, "You are at your best when things are at their worst." RR

[Guest guest]

Goodness. Well, it's nice to see a little animus around here, anyway. Makes a

refresshing change.

The conflation of Rome with terrorism and Nazism is just silly. The Romans

typically would exact tribute and then allow substantial " home rule. " Not so

bad. Many peoples benefited from Roman rule. What was so bad about the Pax

Romana?

Do you deny that the best way to maintain peace is to prepare for war? Do you

not think that, were it not for American military superiority, things in the

world would be much worse? I can think of several nasty, buggy little regimes

that would happily unleash themselves were it not for fear of Western military

power - and, for better or worse, these days " Western military power " means

predominantly (admittedly not solely) American military power. I read somewhere

that we in the United States spend more on military than the rest of the world

*combined*. I find that to be a matter of some pride, not to mention comfort.

The windshield is a protector. Without it, the bugs have their own way.

I actually agree with some of what you say below, although I do not blame big

business - I blame the unleashing of the technocrats, an effect of the

emancipation of science that is key to the modern project (which modern project

is the relief of man's estate through applied science).

Hard to disagree with lin about the dangers of the salaried bureaucracy,

esp. as we now labor under rule by bureaucracy to a large degree. Actually agree

with Mr. about that one. One of the roads to serfdom, to coin a phrase.

Don't know why you lionize Kennedy. Seemed pretty mediocre to me.

regards,

Dan Watkins

>

>

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/10/1044056/-Ron-s-Eye-Opening-Ad-on-ou\

r-Wars-This-Ad-Needs-to-go-Viral

>

>

> no matter what your politics are this ad is impressive

> The reference to Rome was interesting and instructive. Evidently Mr.

thinks that Rome was more bad than good, and not to be emulated. An awkward

position for an American politician to take. Otherwise, I think it is an

argument of false equivalence. Also, the breathless tone doesn't work at all,

imo. I seem to be unable to restrain myself from saying that appears to be

the most irresponsible of the major candidates, and that includes Pres. Obama.

In this world, if you will not be the windshield, you're gonna be the bug.

>

> best,

>

> Dan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.5.454 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4131 - Release Date: 01/08/12

19:34:00

>

[Guest guest]

I appreciate what you say about the founders, and agree with Mr. about many

things, but cannot countenance what I consider to be his crazy, not to say

suicidal, denigration of the use of military powers. As for the founders'

isolationism (and not all were isolationists, A. Hamilton for example), all I

can say is that times change, and we must change with them. The USA is the

superpower, and I think decency demands that we not abdicate. Jung himself said

during WWII that, if the USA did not save Europe, it would not be saved. Not

much has changed in that regard.

regards,

Dan Watkins

>

>

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/10/1044056/-Ron-s-Eye-Opening-Ad-on-ou\

r-Wars-This-Ad-Needs-to-go-Viral

>

>

> no matter what your politics are this ad is impressive

> The reference to Rome was interesting and instructive. Evidently Mr.

thinks that Rome was more bad than good, and not to be emulated. An awkward

position for an American politician to take. Otherwise, I think it is an

argument of false equivalence. Also, the breathless tone doesn't work at all,

imo. I seem to be unable to restrain myself from saying that appears to be

the most irresponsible of the major candidates, and that includes Pres. Obama.

In this world, if you will not be the windshield, you're gonna be the bug.

>

> best,

>

> Dan

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for defending me. I do think Steve got what I meant, though - if you

can't defend yourself, you will be rolled over. seems to think that

friendship among all peoples is a real possibility - I do not. I also like what

you say about Christ. If I understand CGJ on the matter correctly, the return of

Christ is always within the individual, and pertains to the completion of the

individual as individual. It is not political. Christ was not political. The

kingdom of God is within. The City of God is not a human city, the city of man.

best,

Dan

>

> Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he was saying

that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels about how Ron

's politics are.  Personally, I tend to think they are all bought out these

days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also think that a

balance is needed.  We need to become as conscious as we can, but we also need

focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is lost.  A lot

of people are just asleep.  As I have said previously, we need to be really

awake to what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon.  If we just

want to blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in to

defeat.  Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet

on everyone.  Certainly, I could not run.  Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons

as JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's

intentions are.  If things

> go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that created it.  This

is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself and changing the

world.  I believe one can change and it has no effect on others around us,

especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does have a

ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they will

create circles and we can swim to a greater circle.  The Romans were, no matter

what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors.  This ugly battle

which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries.  The real return of

what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more eclectic

practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go wait a

minute.  I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is going.  So

there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest you see the

movies.  In a river runs

> through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in the

countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and the

hero says the the heroine "   Why is it that those closest to us and need us the

most listen to us the least. "   The other is Star Man and the alien in the movie

talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans being

interesting, because, " You are at your best when things are at their worst. "   RR

>

[Guest guest]

>Not so bad. Many peoples benefited from Roman rule. What was so bad about the Pax Romana?

Ask the Gauls, the Jews, the Britains, the Egyptians and the hundreds of

thousands of slaves they kept. Pax Romana ? What a Joke! They ram sacked

all the countries they invaded. It astonishes me your attitude of support for

invasions, suppressions and theft of other nations. Were you a bully in school?

Tell me why did we go into Iraq? Truly why? because we all knew

there was no mass weapons of destruction? Could it be something about

a thing called OIL ?

__________

>Do you deny that the best way to maintain peace is to prepare for war?

Yes Absolutely, saber rattling most always starts fights.

One does not need to smash the neighbors windows who did

nothing to us, to keep safe in our houses. Soon they will smash

back. And if a neighbor has a well of cool water, we don't just

break down his fence and fetch his water. On the premise you

mentioned above, can you imagine if we all walked on our

streets with guns in holsters and ammunition belts around our

shoulders, carrying a big machine gun and we would be prepared

to fight an other man just so we can maintain peace? Where do you

think that would bring us? Insanity !

______________

>The windshield is a protector. Without it, the bugs have their own way.

What you don't see is that you are the bug. Soon the Big

Windshields will be smashing you in your own country.

___________

>I read somewhere that we in the United States spend more on military than the rest of the

world *combined*. I find that to be a matter of some pride, not to mention comfort.

Yes , this is a war mongering nation. Remember , they all fell, Napoleon

fell also. Be proud! Pride is the root of all evil and sin. It belongs to the ego.

Collective ego is nationalism. Be proud also when QE 4 will be passed and

and an other economic crisis will thread hard on the nation. Be proud that

the ordinary comon man earning $10 an hour has to pay for your military

to advance the interests of the 1%. Be proud of this also then

>Don't know why you lionize Kennedy. Seemed pretty mediocre to me.

Lionize?? Sheesh ! I am only referring to history. He diverted 3rd WW by

NOT listening to the trigger happy military and negotiated diplomatically

with Khrushchev. If you remember the tension then, it was grave. We were

at the brink of war during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We didn't like those

missile near our homes, but its OK for us to have them near everyone else's.

Kennedy was assassinated, and Khrushchev was kicked out of the politburo

right after that.

Steve Kalec

[Guest guest]

>Jung himself said during WWII that, if the USA did not save Europe, it would not be saved. Not much has changed in that regard.

______

That was a different act on the US. They then were virtuous and came to help the bugs against the Nazi Fascist Windshield. But as Power Corrupts, they themselves have now become a Windshield smashing bugs.

Steve Kalec

Re: impressive ad about our military

I appreciate what you say about the founders, and agree with Mr. about many things, but cannot countenance what I consider to be his crazy, not to say suicidal, denigration of the use of military powers. As for the founders' isolationism (and not all were isolationists, A. Hamilton for example), all I can say is that times change, and we must change with them. The USA is the superpower, and I think decency demands that we not abdicate. Jung himself said during WWII that, if the USA did not save Europe, it would not be saved. Not much has changed in that regard.regards,Dan Watkins > > http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/10/1044056/-Ron-s-Eye-Opening-Ad-on-our-Wars-This-Ad-Needs-to-go-Viral> > > no matter what your politics are this ad is impressive> The reference to Rome was interesting and instructive. Evidently Mr. thinks that Rome was more bad than good, and not to be emulated. An awkward position for an American politician to take. Otherwise, I think it is an argument of false equivalence. Also, the breathless tone doesn't work at all, imo. I seem to be unable to restrain myself from saying that appears to be the most irresponsible of the major candidates, and that includes Pres. Obama. In this world, if you will not be the windshield, you're gonna be the bug.> > best,> > Dan>------------------------------------"Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering."H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

[Guest guest]

>If I understand CGJ on the matter correctly, the return of Christ is always within the individual, and pertains to the completion of the individual as individual.

Absolutely!

The second coming, is the coming to realization of the Christ Consciousness within.

Steve Kalec

Re: impressive ad about our military

Thank you for defending me. I do think Steve got what I meant, though - if you can't defend yourself, you will be rolled over. seems to think that friendship among all peoples is a real possibility - I do not. I also like what you say about Christ. If I understand CGJ on the matter correctly, the return of Christ is always within the individual, and pertains to the completion of the individual as individual. It is not political. Christ was not political. The kingdom of God is within. The City of God is not a human city, the city of man.best,Dan>> Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he was saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels about how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are all bought out these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also think that a balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can, but we also need focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is lost. A lot of people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to be really awake to what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we just want to blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in to defeat. Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet on everyone. Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions are. If things> go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that created it. This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself and changing the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others around us, especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does have a ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they will create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no matter what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly battle which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real return of what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more eclectic practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go wait a minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is going. So there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest you see the movies. In a river runs> through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in the countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and the hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us and need us the most listen to us the least." The other is Star Man and the alien in the movie talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans being interesting, because, "You are at your best when things are at their worst." RR>------------------------------------"Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering."H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

[Guest guest]

>

> >Not so bad. Many peoples benefited from Roman rule. What was so bad about the

Pax Romana?

>

> Ask the Gauls, the Jews, the Britains, the Egyptians and the hundreds of

> thousands of slaves they kept. Pax Romana ? What a Joke! They ram sacked

> all the countries they invaded. It astonishes me your attitude of support for

> invasions, suppressions and theft of other nations. Were you a bully in

school?

I was not a bully. I was bullied. That's how I learned about the necessity for

fighting back, etc. How to try not to be the bug.

> Tell me why did we go into Iraq? Truly why? because we all knew

> there was no mass weapons of destruction? Could it be something about

> a thing called OIL ?

Not directly. Sadaam Hussein was willing to sell us oil (without customers, it's

worthless). In hindsight, and from a strictly Realpolitik pov, the Clinton

policy of containment was probably good enough. In a larger sense, though, the

invasion was partly about oil insofar as it demonstrated that we would do what

was necessary to maintain access to supplies - but it was also, and more

importantly, an object lesson to the effect that we cannot be attacked with

impunity. Attack us, and there will be a response - sow the wind, reap the

whirlwind. That is very important, always. You will say in response that we were

not attacked by the Iraqis (although they had indeed previously attacked an

allied nation), but my response would be that the object lesson still stands.

Message to all and sundry - leave the US and its allies alone. And, to strike a

nobler note, I wonder if it is ever unjust to depose a tyrant.

regards,

Dan

> __________

>

> >Do you deny that the best way to maintain peace is to prepare for war?

>

> Yes Absolutely, saber rattling most always starts fights.

> One does not need to smash the neighbors windows who did

> nothing to us, to keep safe in our houses. Soon they will smash

> back. And if a neighbor has a well of cool water, we don't just

> break down his fence and fetch his water. On the premise you

> mentioned above, can you imagine if we all walked on our

> streets with guns in holsters and ammunition belts around our

> shoulders, carrying a big machine gun and we would be prepared

> to fight an other man just so we can maintain peace? Where do you

> think that would bring us? Insanity !

> ______________

>

> >The windshield is a protector. Without it, the bugs have their own way.

>

> What you don't see is that you are the bug. Soon the Big

> Windshields will be smashing you in your own country.

> ___________

>

>

> >I read somewhere that we in the United States spend more on military than the

rest of the

> world *combined*. I find that to be a matter of some pride, not to mention

comfort.

>

> Yes , this is a war mongering nation. Remember , they all fell, Napoleon

> fell also. Be proud! Pride is the root of all evil and sin. It belongs to the

ego.

> Collective ego is nationalism. Be proud also when QE 4 will be passed and

> and an other economic crisis will thread hard on the nation. Be proud that

> the ordinary comon man earning $10 an hour has to pay for your military

> to advance the interests of the 1%. Be proud of this also then

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >Don't know why you lionize Kennedy. Seemed pretty mediocre to me.

>

> Lionize?? Sheesh ! I am only referring to history. He diverted 3rd WW by

> NOT listening to the trigger happy military and negotiated diplomatically

> with Khrushchev. If you remember the tension then, it was grave. We were

> at the brink of war during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We didn't like those

> missile near our homes, but its OK for us to have them near everyone else's.

>

> Kennedy was assassinated, and Khrushchev was kicked out of the politburo

> right after that.

>

>

> Steve Kalec

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he was

saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels about

how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are all bought out

these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also think that a

balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can, but we also need

focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is lost. A lot of

people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to be really awake to

what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we just want to

blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in to defeat.

Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet on

everyone. Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as

JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions

are. If things

> > go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that created it.

This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself and changing

the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others around us,

especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does have a

ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they will

create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no matter

what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly battle

which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real return of

what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more eclectic

practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go wait a

minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is going. So

there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest you see the

movies. In a river runs

> > through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in the

countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and the

hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us and need us the

most listen to us the least. " The other is Star Man and the alien in the movie

talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans being

interesting, because, " You are at your best when things are at their worst. " RR

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings

may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering. "

>

> H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>I was not a bully. I was bullied. That's how I learned about the necessity for fighting back, etc. How to try not to be the bug.

But please! who is bullying you now ? So now you have become the bully! Who is threatening the US that we are in over 100 countries? And this already started when

the US went into Nicaragua. Google that invasion which happened before 1st WW.

Nicaragua never was a threat to the US, nor was Iraq, nor was Afghanistan, nor is

Iran, nor is North Korea. What law states that Pakistan, Israel, Russia, and China,

who surround Iran, all have the right to Atomic Weapons, yet Iran is not allowed

to develop its own? Its like if all my very powerful neighbors have guns, but they

continually stop me from having guns. They even put sanctions against me, harassing

me. Eventually I will figure out how to harass you back. Did you read about the kid who

killed the bully by stabbing him, and the Judge said Good! Evil breathes evil, good breathes

good! An evil act is most always responded by an evil act. Kindness is always returned

with kindness. If you keep bashing with a big hammer all your created enemies, eventually

there will be no one left to bash. Then you will also start bashing at home.

> And, to strike a nobler note, I wonder if it is ever unjust to depose a tyrant.

This is noble alright. Police of the world, Big bully, protector of little bugs, sheesh!

give me a break. How come they never depose tyrants where there is no OIL or strategic

interests. Look at the mess Iraq is left in, and watch the game, its not over yet. Its called destabilization to control, divide and rule.

Steve Kalec

From: dwatkins5qwestnet

To: JUNG-FIRE

Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 12:45 PM

Subject: Re: impressive ad about our military

>> >Not so bad. Many peoples benefited from Roman rule. What was so bad about the Pax Romana?> > Ask the Gauls, the Jews, the Britains, the Egyptians and the hundreds of> thousands of slaves they kept. Pax Romana ? What a Joke! They ram sacked> all the countries they invaded. It astonishes me your attitude of support for > invasions, suppressions and theft of other nations. Were you a bully in school?I was not a bully. I was bullied. That's how I learned about the necessity for fighting back, etc. How to try not to be the bug.> Tell me why did we go into Iraq? Truly why? because we all knew> there was no mass weapons of destruction? Could it be something about> a thing called OIL ?Not directly. Sadaam Hussein was willing to sell us oil (without customers, it's worthless). In hindsight, and from a strictly Realpolitik pov, the Clinton policy of containment was probably good enough. In a larger sense, though, the invasion was partly about oil insofar as it demonstrated that we would do what was necessary to maintain access to supplies - but it was also, and more importantly, an object lesson to the effect that we cannot be attacked with impunity. Attack us, and there will be a response - sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. That is very important, always. You will say in response that we were not attacked by the Iraqis (although they had indeed previously attacked an allied nation), but my response would be that the object lesson still stands. Message to all and sundry - leave the US and its allies alone. but it was also, and more importantly, an object lesson to the effect that we cannot be attacked with impunityregards,Dan> __________> > >Do you deny that the best way to maintain peace is to prepare for war?> > Yes Absolutely, saber rattling most always starts fights.> One does not need to smash the neighbors windows who did> nothing to us, to keep safe in our houses. Soon they will smash > back. And if a neighbor has a well of cool water, we don't just> break down his fence and fetch his water. On the premise you > mentioned above, can you imagine if we all walked on our> streets with guns in holsters and ammunition belts around our> shoulders, carrying a big machine gun and we would be prepared> to fight an other man just so we can maintain peace? Where do you> think that would bring us? Insanity !> ______________> > >The windshield is a protector. Without it, the bugs have their own way.> > What you don't see is that you are the bug. Soon the Big> Windshields will be smashing you in your own country.> ___________> > > >I read somewhere that we in the United States spend more on military than the rest of the > world *combined*. I find that to be a matter of some pride, not to mention comfort.> > Yes , this is a war mongering nation. Remember , they all fell, Napoleon > fell also. Be proud! Pride is the root of all evil and sin. It belongs to the ego.> Collective ego is nationalism. Be proud also when QE 4 will be passed and> and an other economic crisis will thread hard on the nation. Be proud that> the ordinary comon man earning $10 an hour has to pay for your military> to advance the interests of the 1%. Be proud of this also then> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Don't know why you lionize Kennedy. Seemed pretty mediocre to me.> > Lionize?? Sheesh ! I am only referring to history. He diverted 3rd WW by> NOT listening to the trigger happy military and negotiated diplomatically > with Khrushchev. If you remember the tension then, it was grave. We were> at the brink of war during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We didn't like those> missile near our homes, but its OK for us to have them near everyone else's.> > Kennedy was assassinated, and Khrushchev was kicked out of the politburo> right after that. > > > Steve Kalec>------------------------------------"Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering."H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

[Guest guest]

>The Dalai Lama cannot free Tibet. How many divisions has the pope? The reality principle still stands.

___________

"Give on to Cesar what is Cesar's, and give to God what is God's." 22:21

"Seek ye the Kingdom first, and all else will be given on to you." 6:33

The Philosopher’s Stone declares, “My light, exceeds every light, and my good things are better than all other good things. I give freely and reward the intelligent with joy and gladness, glory, riches, delights; and them that "seek" after me I make to know and understand, and to posses divine things." ___ Golden Tractates of Hermes__

Steve Kalec

Re: impressive ad about our military

> >> > Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he was saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels about how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are all bought out these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also think that a balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can, but we also need focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is lost. A lot of people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to be really awake to what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we just want to blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in to defeat. Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet on everyone. Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions are. If things> > go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that created it. This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself and changing the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others around us, especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does have a ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they will create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no matter what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly battle which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real return of what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more eclectic practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go wait a minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is going. So there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest you see the movies. In a river runs> > through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in the countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and the hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us and need us the most listen to us the least." The other is Star Man and the alien in the movie talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans being interesting, because, "You are at your best when things are at their worst." RR> >> > > > > ------------------------------------> > "Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering."> > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama> > >

[Guest guest]

> >

> > >Not so bad. Many peoples benefited from Roman rule. What was so bad about

the Pax Romana?

> >

> > Ask the Gauls, the Jews, the Britains, the Egyptians and the hundreds of

> > thousands of slaves they kept. Pax Romana ? What a Joke! They ram sacked

> > all the countries they invaded. It astonishes me your attitude of support

for

> > invasions, suppressions and theft of other nations. Were you a bully in

school?

>

> I was not a bully. I was bullied. That's how I learned about the necessity

for fighting back, etc. How to try not to be the bug.

>

> > Tell me why did we go into Iraq? Truly why? because we all knew

> > there was no mass weapons of destruction? Could it be something about

> > a thing called OIL ?

>

> Not directly. Sadaam Hussein was willing to sell us oil (without customers,

it's worthless). In hindsight, and from a strictly Realpolitik pov, the Clinton

policy of containment was probably good enough. In a larger sense, though, the

invasion was partly about oil insofar as it demonstrated that we would do what

was necessary to maintain access to supplies - but it was also, and more

importantly, an object lesson to the effect that we cannot be attacked with

impunity. Attack us, and there will be a response - sow the wind, reap the

whirlwind. That is very important, always. You will say in response that we were

not attacked by the Iraqis (although they had indeed previously attacked an

allied nation), but my response would be that the object lesson still stands.

Message to all and sundry - leave the US and its allies alone. but it was also,

and more importantly, an object lesson to the effect that we cannot be attacked

with impunity

>

> regards,

>

> Dan

>

>

> > __________

> >

> > >Do you deny that the best way to maintain peace is to prepare for war?

> >

> > Yes Absolutely, saber rattling most always starts fights.

> > One does not need to smash the neighbors windows who did

> > nothing to us, to keep safe in our houses. Soon they will smash

> > back. And if a neighbor has a well of cool water, we don't just

> > break down his fence and fetch his water. On the premise you

> > mentioned above, can you imagine if we all walked on our

> > streets with guns in holsters and ammunition belts around our

> > shoulders, carrying a big machine gun and we would be prepared

> > to fight an other man just so we can maintain peace? Where do you

> > think that would bring us? Insanity !

> > ______________

> >

> > >The windshield is a protector. Without it, the bugs have their own way.

> >

> > What you don't see is that you are the bug. Soon the Big

> > Windshields will be smashing you in your own country.

> > ___________

> >

> >

> > >I read somewhere that we in the United States spend more on military than

the rest of the

> > world *combined*. I find that to be a matter of some pride, not to mention

comfort.

> >

> > Yes , this is a war mongering nation. Remember , they all fell, Napoleon

> > fell also. Be proud! Pride is the root of all evil and sin. It belongs to

the ego.

> > Collective ego is nationalism. Be proud also when QE 4 will be passed and

> > and an other economic crisis will thread hard on the nation. Be proud that

> > the ordinary comon man earning $10 an hour has to pay for your military

> > to advance the interests of the 1%. Be proud of this also then

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >Don't know why you lionize Kennedy. Seemed pretty mediocre to me.

> >

> > Lionize?? Sheesh ! I am only referring to history. He diverted 3rd WW by

> > NOT listening to the trigger happy military and negotiated diplomatically

> > with Khrushchev. If you remember the tension then, it was grave. We were

> > at the brink of war during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We didn't like those

> > missile near our homes, but its OK for us to have them near everyone

else's.

> >

> > Kennedy was assassinated, and Khrushchev was kicked out of the politburo

> > right after that.

> >

> >

> > Steve Kalec

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings

may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering. "

>

> H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he was

saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels about

how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are all bought out

these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also think that a

balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can, but we also need

focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is lost. A lot of

people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to be really awake to

what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we just want to

blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in to defeat.

Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet on

everyone. Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as

JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions

are. If things

> > > go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that created

it. This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself and

changing the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others

around us, especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does

have a ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they

will create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no

matter what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly

battle which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real

return of what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more

eclectic practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go

wait a minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is

going. So there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest

you see the movies. In a river runs

> > > through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in the

countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and the

hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us and need us the

most listen to us the least. " The other is Star Man and the alien in the movie

talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans being

interesting, because, " You are at your best when things are at their worst. " RR

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby

beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering. "

> >

> > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>Don't you see that the latter pertains to the former? Few threaten us because we are in over 100 countries. It's a good thing.

What paranoia! So the USSR was good thing then? Hmmm???

>The Beatles were wrong - love is not all you need. It is one of the things you need, but not the only thing.

You are right! Its OIL that we need! Black Gold. Lets just take it from them all.

Re: impressive ad about our military

> >> > >Not so bad. Many peoples benefited from Roman rule. What was so bad about the Pax Romana?> > > > Ask the Gauls, the Jews, the Britains, the Egyptians and the hundreds of> > thousands of slaves they kept. Pax Romana ? What a Joke! They ram sacked> > all the countries they invaded. It astonishes me your attitude of support for > > invasions, suppressions and theft of other nations. Were you a bully in school?> > I was not a bully. I was bullied. That's how I learned about the necessity for fighting back, etc. How to try not to be the bug.> > > Tell me why did we go into Iraq? Truly why? because we all knew> > there was no mass weapons of destruction? Could it be something about> > a thing called OIL ?> > Not directly. Sadaam Hussein was willing to sell us oil (without customers, it's worthless). In hindsight, and from a strictly Realpolitik pov, the Clinton policy of containment was probably good enough. In a larger sense, though, the invasion was partly about oil insofar as it demonstrated that we would do what was necessary to maintain access to supplies - but it was also, and more importantly, an object lesson to the effect that we cannot be attacked with impunity. Attack us, and there will be a response - sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. That is very important, always. You will say in response that we were not attacked by the Iraqis (although they had indeed previously attacked an allied nation), but my response would be that the object lesson still stands. Message to all and sundry - leave the US and its allies alone. but it was also, and more importantly, an object lesson to the effect that we cannot be attacked with impunity> > regards,> > Dan> > > > __________> > > > >Do you deny that the best way to maintain peace is to prepare for war?> > > > Yes Absolutely, saber rattling most always starts fights.> > One does not need to smash the neighbors windows who did> > nothing to us, to keep safe in our houses. Soon they will smash > > back. And if a neighbor has a well of cool water, we don't just> > break down his fence and fetch his water. On the premise you > > mentioned above, can you imagine if we all walked on our> > streets with guns in holsters and ammunition belts around our> > shoulders, carrying a big machine gun and we would be prepared> > to fight an other man just so we can maintain peace? Where do you> > think that would bring us? Insanity !> > ______________> > > > >The windshield is a protector. Without it, the bugs have their own way.> > > > What you don't see is that you are the bug. Soon the Big> > Windshields will be smashing you in your own country.> > ___________> > > > > > >I read somewhere that we in the United States spend more on military than the rest of the > > world *combined*. I find that to be a matter of some pride, not to mention comfort.> > > > Yes , this is a war mongering nation. Remember , they all fell, Napoleon > > fell also. Be proud! Pride is the root of all evil and sin. It belongs to the ego.> > Collective ego is nationalism. Be proud also when QE 4 will be passed and> > and an other economic crisis will thread hard on the nation. Be proud that> > the ordinary comon man earning $10 an hour has to pay for your military> > to advance the interests of the 1%. Be proud of this also then> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Don't know why you lionize Kennedy. Seemed pretty mediocre to me.> > > > Lionize?? Sheesh ! I am only referring to history. He diverted 3rd WW by> > NOT listening to the trigger happy military and negotiated diplomatically > > with Khrushchev. If you remember the tension then, it was grave. We were> > at the brink of war during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We didn't like those> > missile near our homes, but its OK for us to have them near everyone else's.> > > > Kennedy was assassinated, and Khrushchev was kicked out of the politburo> > right after that. > > > > > > Steve Kalec> >> > > > > ------------------------------------> > "Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering."> > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama> > >

[Guest guest]

Yes, but the one in possession of the Stone, will always be out

of the mainstream mess with joy and gladness, glory, riches, delights;

and posses divine things. Our whole reason of being here on earth is

to unfold the Self.

As the Sepher Yetzira states, "Lead the Creator back to his Throne".

Steve Kalec

Re: impressive ad about our military

> > >> > > Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he was saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels about how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are all bought out these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also think that a balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can, but we also need focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is lost. A lot of people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to be really awake to what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we just want to blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in to defeat. Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet on everyone. Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions are. If things> > > go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that created it. This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself and changing the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others around us, especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does have a ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they will create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no matter what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly battle which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real return of what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more eclectic practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go wait a minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is going. So there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest you see the movies. In a river runs> > > through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in the countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and the hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us and need us the most listen to us the least." The other is Star Man and the alien in the movie talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans being interesting, because, "You are at your best when things are at their worst." RR> > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > > > "Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering."> > > > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I was going to let this go because historically people get upset when the

discussion turns political, but I feel compelled to respond to this. First, one

requires a regime where seeking the stone is permissible, or at least possible.

Democracy gets some praise from Plato because, despite its grave flaws, it is a

regime under which philosophy is kinda possible. Where all is permitted,

excellence is permitted too. Athens tolerated Socrates for 70 years. In Sparta

(the so-called " philosophical republic " b/c it was like Plato's " city in speech "

from the Republic), Socrates would have been killed at birth. In the "

philosophical republic, " as in many other regimes, philosophy is not publicly

tolerated and must remain underground. Jung himself wrote that, had he lived in

the middle ages and thought and taught the way he did, he would have been

condemned as a heretic. In a democracy, philosophy is tolerated, even if not

encouraged. For that reason, if for no other, you should as a seeker of the

stone support modern liberal democracy and wish to defend it from its enemies

and to further its interests, without demanding impossible perfect justice or

utopia. Good luck unfolding the self in North Korea.

Secondly, to live " out of the mainstream mess, " as you put it - to live on the

isle of the blest - is to live apart from other men, to live apolitically,

without bothering about public affairs. You accuse me of praising injustice, but

this appears to be the height of injustice - I'm all right, Jack, in possession

of the divine things and busy unfolding the self, and the city can look after

itself the best way it can.

regards,

Dan Watkins

> > > >

> > > > Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he

was saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels

about how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are all

bought out these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also

think that a balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can, but we

also need focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is

lost. A lot of people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to be

really awake to what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we

just want to blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in

to defeat. Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet

on everyone. Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as

JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions

are. If things

> > > > go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that

created it. This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself

and changing the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others

around us, especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does

have a ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they

will create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no

matter what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly

battle which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real

return of what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more

eclectic practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go

wait a minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is

going. So there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest

you see the movies. In a river runs

> > > > through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in

the countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and

the hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us and need us

the most listen to us the least. " The other is Star Man and the alien in the

movie talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans

being interesting, because, " You are at your best when things are at their

worst. " RR

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby

beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering. "

> > >

> > > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

>Secondly, to live "out of the mainstream mess," as you put it - to live on the isle of the blest - is to live apart from other men, to live apolitically, without bothering about public affairs.

Get real for crying out loud. Understand that we are talking about Psychological aspects.

To live on the isle of the blest is within, and the within is projected out into the world.

Beauty, love and grace is in the eye of the beholder and no one needs to live apart from

men to enjoy spiritual joy and have a sense of upliftment in the world. Sure I will continue

to give Cesar what is his.

>You accuse me of praising injustice, but this appears to be the height of injustice - I'm all right, Jack, in possession of the divine things and busy unfolding the self, and the city can look after itself the best way it can.

Hey Jack, you are accusing yourself here by releasing an anger that arose of yourself.

I never accused you of anything. I simply disagreed with your militarism outlook.

Its your life, follow your bliss.

Steve Kalec

Re: impressive ad about our military

I was going to let this go because historically people get upset when the discussion turns political, but I feel compelled to respond to this. First, one requires a regime where seeking the stone is permissible, or at least possible. Democracy gets some praise from Plato because, despite its grave flaws, it is a regime under which philosophy is kinda possible. Where all is permitted, excellence is permitted too. Athens tolerated Socrates for 70 years. In Sparta (the so-called "philosophical republic" b/c it was like Plato's "city in speech" from the Republic), Socrates would have been killed at birth. In the" philosophical republic," as in many other regimes, philosophy is not publicly tolerated and must remain underground. Jung himself wrote that, had he lived in the middle ages and thought and taught the way he did, he would have been condemned as a heretic. In a democracy, philosophy is tolerated, even if not encouraged. For that reason, if for no other, you should as a seeker of the stone support modern liberal democracy and wish to defend it from its enemies and to further its interests, without demanding impossible perfect justice or utopia. Good luck unfolding the self in North Korea.Secondly, to live "out of the mainstream mess," as you put it - to live on the isle of the blest - is to live apart from other men, to live apolitically, without bothering about public affairs. You accuse me of praising injustice, but this appears to be the height of injustice - I'm all right, Jack, in possession of the divine things and busy unfolding the self, and the city can look after itself the best way it can.regards,Dan Watkins > > > >> > > > Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he was saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels about how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are all bought out these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also think that a balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can, but we also need focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is lost. A lot of people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to be really awake to what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we just want to blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in to defeat. Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet on everyone. Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions are. If things> > > > go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that created it. This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself and changing the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others around us, especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does have a ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they will create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no matter what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly battle which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real return of what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more eclectic practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go wait a minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is going. So there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest you see the movies. In a river runs> > > > through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in the countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and the hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us and need us the most listen to us the least." The other is Star Man and the alien in the movie talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans being interesting, because, "You are at your best when things are at their worst." RR> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > > > > > "Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering."> > > > > > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama> > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

On politics and such... Perhaps Hillary will be the democratic nominee for VP? Not a cure-all,not a sweeping change, but perhaps this would bolster expertise,strengthen leadership and restore public confidence? I am beyond weary with the rest, including both parties. I suppose many feel the same nationwide. Most declare independent as their party presently( including many former dems.and more liberal repubs) and since Hillary is the most respected political person in the country, according to recent polls, perhaps this would be a prudent move? As for a social democracy, it will evolve, but we're not there yet. There remains a great deal of resistance presently toward the idea across the nation, and we are a nation. To strengthen the dem. leadership/party and to take the necessary steps to change what we can realistically change presently, ie. true health care for all,jobs,equal rights, protecting the environment,etc.,seems like a reasonable course of action in the interim.

Gail

.. .

Re: Re: impressive ad about our military

>Secondly, to live "out of the mainstream mess," as you put it - to live on the isle of the blest - is to live apart from other men, to live apolitically, without bothering about public affairs.

Get real for crying out loud. Understand that we are talking about Psychological aspects.

To live on the isle of the blest is within, and the within is projected out into the world.

Beauty, love and grace is in the eye of the beholder and no one needs to live apart from

men to enjoy spiritual joy and have a sense of upliftment in the world. Sure I will continue

to give Cesar what is his.

>You accuse me of praising injustice, but this appears to be the height of injustice - I'm all right, Jack, in possession of the divine things and busy unfolding the self, and the city can look after itself the best way it can.

Hey Jack, you are accusing yourself here by releasing an anger that arose of yourself.

I never accused you of anything. I simply disagreed with your militarism outlook.

Its your life, follow your bliss.

Steve Kalec

Re: impressive ad about our military

I was going to let this go because historically people get upset when the discussion turns political, but I feel compelled to respond to this. First, one requires a regime where seeking the stone is permissible, or at least possible. Democracy gets some praise from Plato because, despite its grave flaws, it is a regime under which philosophy is kinda possible. Where all is permitted, excellence is permitted too. Athens tolerated Socrates for 70 years. In Sparta (the so-called "philosophical republic" b/c it was like Plato's "city in speech" from the Republic), Socrates would have been killed at birth. In the" philosophical republic," as in many other regimes, philosophy is not publicly tolerated and must remain underground. Jung himself wrote that, had he lived in the middle ages and thought and taught the way he did, he would have been condemned as a heretic. In a democracy, philosophy is tolerated, even if not encouraged. For that reason, if for no other, you should as a seeker of

the stone support modern liberal democracy and wish to defend it from its enemies and to further its interests, without demanding impossible perfect justice or utopia. Good luck unfolding the self in North Korea.

Secondly, to live "out of the mainstream mess," as you put it - to live on the isle of the blest - is to live apart from other men, to live apolitically, without bothering about public affairs. You accuse me of praising injustice, but this appears to be the height of injustice - I'm all right, Jack, in possession of the divine things and busy unfolding the self, and the city can look after itself the best way it can.

regards,

Dan Watkins

> > > >

> > > > Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he was saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels about how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are all bought out these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also think that a balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can, but we also need focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is lost. A lot of people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to be really awake to what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we just want to blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in to defeat. Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet on everyone. Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions are. If things

> > > > go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that created it. This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself and changing the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others around us, especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does have a ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they will create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no matter what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly battle which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real return of what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more eclectic practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go wait a minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is going. So there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest you see the movies. In a river runs

> > > > through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in the countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and the hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us and need us the most listen to us the least." The other is Star Man and the alien in the movie talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans being interesting, because, "You are at your best when things are at their worst." RR

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > "Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering."

> > >

> > > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]



>I am beyond weary with the rest, including both parties.

Dear Gail,

So am I. The fact is that both sides are bought by the same Elite Powers.

It never really matters who wins, the Elite control them both. I was never

as depressed and shocked as when I saw Bush win because of hanging chads.

Here In America we saw faked and fraudulent elections? Not many Americans reacted

or stood up to their liberties being peuked on. Keep sleeping America !

It is the Bankers and the financial systems that really rule all of us.

The Federal Reserve Bank is truly nothing else than a cartel of bankers.

Ninety percent of Americans do not yet know that the Federal Reserve

is not part of the US Government. Just as they have separated religion

from State, so too in 1910 , under Woodrow , the financial system

was separated from government and given to the control of private

bankers. Look it up in Google under Federal Reserve. This incognito

reserve also exists in England as the Bank of England. A wise name to make

people believe it is their bank, yet it is totally private.

Money rules the world. The rest of us dogs can bark all we want.

Dept is Slavery. This is the New Age World that is embarking

upon us all. I am not talking about personal debt. I mean Global

world deb. I love Hillary very much, but she is nothing but a puppet.

The strings are in the hands of the Elite Big Balls Bankers.

She can do nothing but what she will be told to do. So too we believed

in our Messiah, the great OH ! BAMA.

YES WE CAN!

YES WE CAN!

YES WE CAN!

YES WE CAN!

YES WE CAN!

YES WE CAN!

YES WE CAN!

YES WE CAN!

Steve

All Best,

Steve

Re: impressive ad about our military

I was going to let this go because historically people get upset when the discussion turns political, but I feel compelled to respond to this. First, one requires a regime where seeking the stone is permissible, or at least possible. Democracy gets some praise from Plato because, despite its grave flaws, it is a regime under which philosophy is kinda possible. Where all is permitted, excellence is permitted too. Athens tolerated Socrates for 70 years. In Sparta (the so-called "philosophical republic" b/c it was like Plato's "city in speech" from the Republic), Socrates would have been killed at birth. In the" philosophical republic," as in many other regimes, philosophy is not publicly tolerated and must remain underground. Jung himself wrote that, had he lived in the middle ages and thought and taught the way he did, he would have been condemned as a heretic. In a democracy, philosophy is tolerated, even if not encouraged. For that reason, if for no other, you should as a seeker of the stone support modern liberal democracy and wish to defend it from its enemies and to further its interests, without demanding impossible perfect justice or utopia. Good luck unfolding the self in North Korea.Secondly, to live "out of the mainstream mess," as you put it - to live on the isle of the blest - is to live apart from other men, to live apolitically, without bothering about public affairs. You accuse me of praising injustice, but this appears to be the height of injustice - I'm all right, Jack, in possession of the divine things and busy unfolding the self, and the city can look after itself the best way it can.regards,Dan Watkins > > > >> > > > Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I think he was saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he feels about how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are all bought out these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I also think that a balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can, but we also need focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle is lost. A lot of people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to be really awake to what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we just want to blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in to defeat. Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet on everyone. Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions are. If things> > > > go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that created it. This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself and changing the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others around us, especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does have a ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they will create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no matter what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly battle which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real return of what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more eclectic practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go wait a minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is going. So there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest you see the movies. In a river runs> > > > through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path together in the countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close to them and the hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us and need us the most listen to us the least." The other is Star Man and the alien in the movie talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks about humans being interesting, because, "You are at your best when things are at their worst." RR> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > > > > > "Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering."> > > > > > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama> > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Steve et alWow....this was certainly not my intention..................my point and my only point with the ad was not to support or anything else. My point was this. People in America are often totally naive (and 9/11 changed this a bit) as to what it means to have war on your soil or marshal law. Coming from a family which did experience that I can tell you it is not pretty and has consequences for generations. I also saw this living in Japan for ten years--generations of consequences. Oh yes, they stupidly (and maybe not so stupid in the long run....did we know they were going to do it....I think so) bombed Pearl Harbor, but what did we do in return. So the ad for me showed what it would be like to have war on our soil and so the breathless pace of the ad,

because that is what you feel in those types of situations--like you can not breathe. Do you think really and truly, if we keep doing what we are doing that sooner or later, it won't happen? Furthermore, we, while this look in another direction diversion goes on, have been losing our constitutional rights day after day. We complain about other countries where the right to protest is destroyed, and here? What is happening? What would the founding father's say? Who now controls this country? Do we still have a democracy? What are we leaning towards with this capitalistic society where business, banking and politics has lost it sense of integrity to the hilt if you ask me and get away with it. What will happen if people get fed up and revolt? Will we be any better than what we have been fighting. Right now we are so far from agreement with each other that the whole political process is

generally thwarted and we just want to blame the other camp, creating a war dynamic in the minds of the majority of Americans. What happens when you don't want to come to terms with something in yourself? You either fragment or your project it out? And so, the multitude of Christian groups, etc.So here we have another situation where those wanting to protect themselves from being bullied or others from being bullied become bullies themselves. A good percentage of the American population feels, right now, like bugs on the windshield and that my dears is very very dangerous. I really do not know what Jung said about war directly or about the second coming, but I do believe that it is internal, can be experienced through many processes and is the only way, when there are enough blossoms of it, that society will come out of this barbaric state we have been in for centuries. I certainly am not one

of those blossoms yet. I struggle day after day with this that is in a state of knowingness in the center of my being...every day. I am not detached enough looking at what is happening and it is very frustrating for me, especially seeing how fearful, asleep and in denial people are. The only thing stopping people from being friends with everyone, in my book, is that we are in an uncivilized hell where we are invested in looking for how to blame and how to disagree instead of looking for agreement. That's it for me. Saying this, no I do not believe the best protection for war is to prepare for war. I believe, and I think Jung would agree if I take the liberty, is that the best protection against war is for as many people as possible to find the battle inside themselves and solve it. Personally, I think I should shut my mouth, because a good job of this I don't think I have done, as of

yet.One last thing, I have friends who are so vested in the law of silence that they never disagree or confront anything in the world around them. They think this is not being disagreeable. I am not talking about this type of denial where the disagreement is never resolved, but we are taught to believe in that type of agreement. On the internet about a year ago was a .jpg of a young woman in a group overseas. She was very unsophisticated looking in very humble clothes and she was holding a sign that said, "Silence is a war crime." I say this clearly, "I am not good at all of this. I am still trying to sort out something, which is very difficult for me, but I am trying."

[Guest guest]

" Communistic or Socialistic democracy is an upheaval of the unfit against

attempts at order. Consider the stay-in strikes in France, the former

socialistic upheavals in Germany and Italy. This state of disorder called

democratic freedom or liberalism brings its own reaction – enforced order. In as

much as the European nations are incapable of living in a chronic state of

disorder, they will make attempts at enforced order, or fascism …. A decent

oligarchy – call it aristocracy if you like – is the most ideal form of

government…. Without the aristocratic ideal there is no stability. You in

England owe it to the " gentleman " that you possess the world. "

CG Jung, from " The Psychology of Dictatorship, " 1936.

> > > > >

> > > > > Steve....I understand your heat and your concerns, but I

think he was saying that about the bugs on the windshield in regards to what he

feels about how Ron 's politics are. Personally, I tend to think they are

all bought out these days and have no control and I have deep concerns, but I

also think that a balance is needed. We need to become as conscious as we can,

but we also need focus on something higher and what we can create or the battle

is lost. A lot of people are just asleep. As I have said previously, we need to

be really awake to what are ideas of Satan are and things like Armageddon. If we

just want to blame, we are part of the problem to and we are already giving in

to defeat. Society these days is so ready to pull the skeleton out of the closet

on everyone. Certainly, I could not run. Jefferson, Lincoln all had skeletons as

JFK did, but it is the sum total balance of things and what someone's intentions

are. If things

> > > > > go a miss totally, it is the consciousness of society that

created it. This is why I hate all the new age adages about changing yourself

and changing the world. I believe one can change and it has no effect on others

around us, especially sometimes those closest to us unfortunately, but it does

have a ripple effect and one does not know where the ripples go and how they

will create circles and we can swim to a greater circle. The Romans were, no

matter what philosophy they brought forward, were military warriors. This ugly

battle which, Christianity took hold of, has gone on for centuries. The real

return of what Christ represents ( and I was raised Jewish, but have a more

eclectic practice) will be if everyone decided to let go of all of this and go

wait a minute. I do believe movies tell us a lot about where our culture is

going. So there are two lines in movies which I always remember and I suggest

you see the movies. In a river runs

> > > > > through, the hero and heroine are walking down a path

together in the countrry after having very difficult scenarios with those close

to them and the hero says the the heroine " Why is it that those closest to us

and need us the most listen to us the least. " The other is Star Man and the

alien in the movie talks about the many races all over the universe and he talks

about humans being interesting, because, " You are at your best when things are

at their worst. " RR

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means

whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and

suffering. "

> > > >

> > > > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Roseroberta. I'm very grateful for your post, and your

personal account of how it feels to be in an "occupied" land. I

think what you are saying is that the best way to achieve peace is

to prepare for peace. I have yet to experience a peaceful self in

the presence of angry, blaming behavior. I have yet to find the

safety of sharing my voice with ones who would make me wrong for

doing so. Perhaps the best we can do is at least try to make it

safe for others to share themselves with us.

"I'm not sure what the theme of my homily ought to be. Do I want to

speak of the miracle of our Lord's divine transformation? Not

really, no. I don't want to talk about His divinity. I'd rather

talk about His humanity. I mean... you know... how He lived His

life hear on Earth - His kindness, His tolerance. Listen, here's

what I think. I think we can't go round measuring our goodness by

what we don't do - by what we deny ourselves, what we resist, and

who we exclude. I think we've got to measure goodness by what we

embrace, what we create, and who we include." Pere Henri from Lasse

Hallstrom's film Chocolat.

Thanks again,

Robin

Steve et al

Wow....this was certainly not my

intention..................my point and my only point with the

ad was not to support or anything else. My point was

this. People in America are often totally naive (and 9/11

changed this a bit) as to what it means to have war on your

soil or marshal law. Coming from a family which did

experience that I can tell you it is not pretty and has

consequences for generations. I also saw this living in Japan

for ten years--generations of consequences. Oh yes, they

stupidly (and maybe not so stupid in the long run....did we

know they were going to do it....I think so) bombed Pearl

Harbor, but what did we do in return. So the ad for me showed

what it would be like to have war on our soil and so the

breathless pace of the ad, because that is what you feel in

those types of situations--like you can not breathe. Do you

think really and truly, if we keep doing what we are doing

that sooner or later, it won't happen? Furthermore, we, while

this look in another direction diversion goes on, have been

losing our constitutional rights day after day. We complain

about other countries where the right to protest is destroyed,

and here? What is happening? What would the founding

father's say? Who now controls this country? Do we still

have a democracy? What are we leaning towards with this

capitalistic society where business, banking and politics has

lost it sense of integrity to the hilt if you ask me and get

away with it. What will happen if people get fed up and

revolt? Will we be any better than what we have been

fighting. Right now we are so far from agreement with each

other that the whole political process is generally thwarted

and we just want to blame the other camp, creating a war

dynamic in the minds of the majority of Americans. What

happens when you don't want to come to terms with something in

yourself? You either fragment or your project it out? And

so, the multitude of Christian groups, etc.

So here we have another situation where those wanting to

protect themselves from being bullied or others from being

bullied become bullies themselves. A good percentage of the

American population feels, right now, like bugs on the

windshield and that my dears is very very dangerous. I really

do not know what Jung said about war directly or about the

second coming, but I do believe that it is internal, can be

experienced through many processes and is the only way, when

there are enough blossoms of it, that society will come out of

this barbaric state we have been in for centuries. I

certainly am not one of those blossoms yet. I struggle day

after day with this that is in a state of knowingness in the

center of my being...every day. I am not detached enough

looking at what is happening and it is very frustrating for

me, especially seeing how fearful, asleep and in denial people

are. The only thing stopping people from being friends with

everyone, in my book, is that we are in an uncivilized hell

where we are invested in looking for how to blame and how to

disagree instead of looking for agreement. That's it for me.

Saying this, no I do not believe the best protection for war

is to prepare for war. I believe, and I think Jung would

agree if I take the liberty, is that the best protection

against war is for as many people as possible to find the

battle inside themselves and solve it. Personally, I think I

should shut my mouth, because a good job of this I don't think

I have done, as of yet.

One last thing, I have friends who are so vested in the law

of silence that they never disagree or confront anything in

the world around them. They think this is not being

disagreeable. I am not talking about this type of denial

where the disagreement is never resolved, but we are taught to

believe in that type of agreement. On the internet about a

year ago was a .jpg of a young woman in a group overseas. She

was very unsophisticated looking in very humble clothes and

she was holding a sign that said, "Silence is a war crime." I

say this clearly, "I am not good at all of this. I am still

trying to sort out something, which is very difficult for me,

but I am trying."

--

"Good health is not the absence of symptoms, it is the presence

of peace." - Neale Walsh

http://www.healthforlifecoloncare.com/

http://www.traditionalnutrition.org/