RE: need opinions about my Dad's prostate cancer

[Guest guest]

Margaret are you in the USA? If so, your dad needs to sue. I know that it sounds like he won't but I work for a medmalpractice insurance co, and you would win. That doctor is an idiot and allowed your dad's cancer to progress. I am angry for you. Peace on the journey,Juel captwildchild@...************************************If you are going through hell....keep going. -Sir Winston ChurchillMalecare ( www.malecare.com ) recommends that all men, upon attaining adulthood, discuss prostate cancer and the latest prostate cancer screening tests, with their physician, annually.

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[Guest guest]

Margaret

What can we say? There is no easy way of saying this!

This is incompetence of the highest order, but you know this already.

It doesn't matter how old dad is, his treatment has been shoddy. He should have been on Lupron or Zoledex soon after April 04.

I would certainly think about changing urologists and getting an oncologist at this stage. If you let the group know where you are they will no doubt offer suggestions.

With his results, I have to say that he and you have a battle on. Every cancer is different and no one can give an exact prognosis, least of all me from across the pond. However, the Lupron may well put the brakes on for a while and he must keep up to the treatment and the PSA tests, as you say, will give an indication of progress.

If the Lupron stops working there are other drugs that can be used, so that is not the end.

One thing to watch is if he develops pain. It is important that this is dealt with.

My best wishes go out to you and yours and I hope that the Lupron carries on working for many years

Best wishes

[Guest guest]

Hi Margaret,

I would agree with everything Will has said to you and I'm sure many more on

this list would say the same.

Dad has had a bad deal by the sounds of it and there is no way a PSA rise from 5

to 22 in 7 months is 'slow growing'. A second Gleason of 9 out of 10 for

aggressiveness must surely have rung some bells.

Dad now deserves to be given the best treatment so besides the Lupron (LHRH)

hormone that he is now on, I would suggest he asks for an anti androgen like

Casodex to run in tandem. Oncologists are inclined to wait until the LHRH is

failing before adding the anti androgen. But Dad has to hit it hard now. Another

step to take is to add the drug Proscar or Advodart which prevents the

conversion of testosterone to dyhydrotestosterone.

This treatment is sometimes called ADT1 or ADT2 or ADT3 depending how many of

the three drugs he is on but most people in the know would suggest Dad should be

on all three. ADT = androgen deprivation therapy or in other words, testosterone

DT.

Don't give up hope at any time. I'm nearly six years down the road from a

diagnosis nearly as bad as Dads. Dr Strum who specialises in prostate

cancer recently said in an email :

I HAVE A NUMBER OF PATIENTS WHO PRESENTED WITH BONE METS WHO WERE

TREATED WITH ADT2 & ADT3 WHO ARE OFF ALL THERAPY FOR OVER 5 YEARS & WITH NO

EVIDENCE OF ACTIVE PC. MAYBE THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE RE: THE CONSEQUENCES OF

BEING MORE AGGRESSIVE WHEN THE PC IS MORE AMENABLE TO THERAPY.

Okay, Dad may not be as lucky as these men but he should give it a darn good

try. New drugs are coming on stream all the time. Has he thought of going

straight to a top specialist oncologist like Dr Myers in Charlottesville

? He is very expensive of course but an hour or two with him would put Dad on

the right road and I doubt if any ordinary oncologist would argue with the top

man's suggestions. You could try him online

www.prostateforum.com Dr Myers has prostate cancer himself and has written a

book which covers all the extras that Dad can do to help himself in the way of

diet and supplements called Eating your way to better Health. The Lupron should

make a good start but needs helping from many angles.

I'm just a patient but my comments come from six years experience. Hope this

helps a little.

Somerset UK

need opinions about my Dad's prostate cancer

> Hello everyone,

> I posted in December after I learned my Dad had advanced prostate

> cancer. I had no info on him regarding PSA's, Gleason score, or biopsy

> reports. I was ablt to get them today, so I am going to outline his

> case and ask if anyone can comment on prognosis/treatment.

>

> 4/04 PSA (ordered by urologist) 5.4

>

> 5/05 PSA (ordered by urologist) 11.8 (nothing was done)

>

> 8/05 PSA (ordered by primary doc) 12.0 - primary doc pushed uro for

> biopsy. Uro said not needed.

>

> 10/05 PSA 22.4 - urologist took a bit to think it over and finally

> decided on biopsy - results on 2 samples - adenocarcinoma with Gleason

> 3+4 and 4+5.

>

> 11/05 Uro said, " nothing to worry about - it's slow-growing - this is

> not what will kill you. " and gives my Dad Lupron injection and

> Flutamide for 10 days

>

> 11/05 At my urging, my Mom calls and asks uro for a bone scan which

> showed mets to skull, spine, ribs, pelvis, and femur.

>

> 12/05 Uro tells my Dad, " This is more aggressive than I thought " and

> gives my Dad another Lupron injection and says he'll check PSA again

> in March.

>

> 2/05 - My Mom told me today that my Dad has no script for the PSA to

> be drawn before his next visit. ?????

>

>

> I am so angry with this doctor. I cannot believe my Dad has faithfully

> gone to him for 10 years and this just " snuck up " on my Dad. I think

> he was very slow to act on the rising PSA and continues to be

> laxidaisical about the whole thing.

> I would appreciate any advice. I want my Dad to seek out an oncologist

> for further treatment but he has a strange, stubborn loyalty to his

> docs. I would appreciate any comments on prognosis and recommended

> treatments.

> Thanks so much!

> Margaret

[Guest guest]

You need to find an oncologist who specializes in prostate cancer. I am

not sure how close you are to Pittsburgh you may find someone for a

second opinion at the U of Pittsburg.

Good luck,

Kathy

Re: need opinions about my Dad's

prostate cancer

Hi Margaret,

I would agree with everything Will has said to you and I'm sure many

more on this list would say the same. Dad has had a bad deal by the

sounds of it and there is no way a PSA rise from 5 to 22 in 7 months is

'slow growing'. A second Gleason of 9 out of 10 for aggressiveness must

surely have rung some bells.

Dad now deserves to be given the best treatment so besides the Lupron

(LHRH) hormone that he is now on, I would suggest he asks for an anti

androgen like Casodex to run in tandem. Oncologists are inclined to wait

until the LHRH is failing before adding the anti androgen. But Dad has

to hit it hard now. Another step to take is to add the drug Proscar or

Advodart which prevents the conversion of testosterone to

dyhydrotestosterone.

This treatment is sometimes called ADT1 or ADT2 or ADT3 depending how

many of the three drugs he is on but most people in the know would

suggest Dad should be on all three. ADT = androgen deprivation therapy

or in other words, testosterone DT. Don't give up hope at any time. I'm

nearly six years down the road from a diagnosis nearly as bad as Dads.

Dr Strum who specialises in prostate cancer recently said in an

email :

I HAVE A NUMBER OF PATIENTS WHO PRESENTED WITH BONE METS WHO WERE

TREATED WITH ADT2 & ADT3 WHO ARE OFF ALL THERAPY FOR OVER 5 YEARS & WITH

NO EVIDENCE OF ACTIVE PC. MAYBE THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE RE: THE

CONSEQUENCES OF BEING MORE AGGRESSIVE WHEN THE PC IS MORE AMENABLE TO

THERAPY.

Okay, Dad may not be as lucky as these men but he should give it a darn

good try. New drugs are coming on stream all the time. Has he thought of

going straight to a top specialist oncologist like Dr Myers in

Charlottesville ? He is very expensive of course but an hour or two with

him would put Dad on the right road and I doubt if any ordinary

oncologist would argue with the top man's suggestions. You could try him

online

www.prostateforum.com Dr Myers has prostate cancer himself and has

written a

book which covers all the extras that Dad can do to help himself in the

way of diet and supplements called Eating your way to better Health. The

Lupron should make a good start but needs helping from many angles.

I'm just a patient but my comments come from six years experience. Hope

this helps a little.

Somerset UK

need opinions about my Dad's prostate

cancer

> Hello everyone,

> I posted in December after I learned my Dad had advanced prostate

> cancer. I had no info on him regarding PSA's, Gleason score, or biopsy

> reports. I was ablt to get them today, so I am going to outline his

> case and ask if anyone can comment on prognosis/treatment.

>

> 4/04 PSA (ordered by urologist) 5.4

>

> 5/05 PSA (ordered by urologist) 11.8 (nothing was done)

>

> 8/05 PSA (ordered by primary doc) 12.0 - primary doc pushed uro for

> biopsy. Uro said not needed.

>

> 10/05 PSA 22.4 - urologist took a bit to think it over and finally

> decided on biopsy - results on 2 samples - adenocarcinoma with Gleason

> 3+4 and 4+5.

>

> 11/05 Uro said, " nothing to worry about - it's slow-growing - this is

> not what will kill you. " and gives my Dad Lupron injection and

> Flutamide for 10 days

>

> 11/05 At my urging, my Mom calls and asks uro for a bone scan which

> showed mets to skull, spine, ribs, pelvis, and femur.

>

> 12/05 Uro tells my Dad, " This is more aggressive than I thought " and

> gives my Dad another Lupron injection and says he'll check PSA again

> in March.

>

> 2/05 - My Mom told me today that my Dad has no script for the PSA to

> be drawn before his next visit. ?????

>

>

> I am so angry with this doctor. I cannot believe my Dad has faithfully

> gone to him for 10 years and this just " snuck up " on my Dad. I think

> he was very slow to act on the rising PSA and continues to be

> laxidaisical about the whole thing. I would appreciate any advice. I

> want my Dad to seek out an oncologist for further treatment but he has

> a strange, stubborn loyalty to his docs. I would appreciate any

> comments on prognosis and recommended treatments.

> Thanks so much!

> Margaret