Re: surrender

[Guest guest]

Many people believe that it is through surrender that spiritual energy comes into the world.

Toni, that sentence encapsulates yr post! Wise words.

In Jungian terms, it means surrendering the ego w/devotion to the Self [Divine Guest]. NOT ego death!! Bec the DG lives in the unconscious n needs the ego [who we think we are] to live in the manifest world.

Sophia's radius in the circle is called the ego/self axis! An uglier term cn hardly be imagined to describe the potential joy involved.

W.B. Yeats expresses it perfectly in a part of his poem "Vacillation"

IVMy fiftieth year had come and gone,I sat, a solitary man,In a crowded London shop,An open book and empty cupOn the marble table-top.While on the shop and street I gazedMy body of a sudden blazed;And twenty minutes more or lessIt seemed, so great my happiness,That I was blessèd and could bless.

ad laborem

love

ao

[Guest guest]

There is one author who disputes Jung, Bernadette , who wrote three books on getting to No Self. She says Jung does not understand, and no she is not in the eastern Tradition but an ex catholic nun. I am exasperated, because if i could figure out where she was going I could re-translate that Self for myself. She insists we go beyond Self, after the unitive stage???? "The Path to No Self, and "The Experience of No Self" I have all 3 because one of the authors I really do like talked about her admireringly Keating even wrote the Foreword.

This stage beyond transforming Union, in fact that is where she starts, where others ( , end)

It sounds a bit as if she were writing ABOUT something, but I have not read her.

Mercury is the Trickster wh it comes to words/labels. "Define yr terms n arguments cease," which is why I use the diagram!

Perhaps she means, as I do, that the centerpt that Jung says is the center/totality of the psyche wh, as Euclid defines it, has no dimension, ergo is beyond time/space, n is the Divine Guest. In other words the Spirit wants to be us, but we are/are not Spirit. We are created, we did not create ourselves [even in nature] n co-create a life consciousness betw birth n death - our gift to the collective.

What I call the Pook! is of a different element entirely, just as the Sun is fire/light n all manifest life reflects it.

So mebbe yr author has the Pook in mind. Sun : solar system =

Self: individual =

atman, Christ w/in, Divine Guest.

As above, so below. We cld not BE w/out the Pook. In the Beginning was a Verb.

It is really simple, our egos make it complicated!

Read The Collect for Xmas. Gospel of ab "I am the Light that ligheth every man...."

The PROCESS for all mystics, called Christ Consciousness [by Christians] is UNIVERSAL n goes by other names, labels!! This is a realization that may take anoth 2000 years for us to grasp! In the meantime the killing goes on.

The flame in ev lantern is the SAME FLAME! [beejum Book].

Sorry for so many words!

Tired Old Lady also writing ABOUT!:]

ao

She says and he writes that"...wherein G-d is no longer known relative to the self, but instead is known as He is in Himself-known as He knows Himself..."

Rather a tall order don't you think! In the meantime just look in the eyes of one you love n find the Beloved loving back. That's all that is required for now.

[Guest guest]

Dear Alice,

You bring up a point I meet daily in some of the spiritual stuff I read.

Those who do not know Jung or who discard him just use "ego" every which way.

They constantly have to get rid of ego. I can feel with that, but I wish they would use "small self" or some such term.

There is one author who disputes Jung, Bernadette , who wrote three books on getting to No Self. She says Jung does not understand, and no she is not in the eastern Tradition but an ex catholic nun. I am exasperated, because if i could figure out where she was going I could re-translate that Self for myself. She insists we go beyond Self, after the unitive stage???? "The Path to No Self, and "The Experience of No Self" I have all 3 because one of the authors I really do like talked about her admireringly Keating even wrote the Foreword.

She says and he writes that"...wherein G-d is no longer known relative to the self, but instead is known as He is in Himself-known as He knows Himself..."

This stage beyond transforming Union, in fact that is where she starts, where others ( , end)

I agree on "imposing no closure" as he writes, but this woman has me up a creek where I cannot follow. I also think she is mixing up the 2 different ways of thinking( subject/object duality and non duality)

Have you read her?

Great poem! I understand where is coming from too.

love,

Toni

Re: surrender

Many people believe that it is through surrender that spiritual energy comes into the world.

Toni, that sentence encapsulates yr post! Wise words.

In Jungian terms, it means surrendering the ego w/devotion to the Self [Divine Guest]. NOT ego death!! Bec the DG lives in the unconscious n needs the ego [who we think we are] to live in the manifest world.

Sophia's radius in the circle is called the ego/self axis! An uglier term cn hardly be imagined to describe the potential joy involved.

W.B. Yeats expresses it perfectly in a part of his poem "Vacillation"

IVMy fiftieth year had come and gone,I sat, a solitary man,In a crowded London shop,An open book and empty cupOn the marble table-top.While on the shop and street I gazedMy body of a sudden blazed;And twenty minutes more or lessIt seemed, so great my happiness,That I was blessèd and could bless.

ad laborem

love

ao

[Guest guest]

Am familiar with Bernadette , though haven't read her books. I have participated at an online Buddhist discussion forum & a while back someone posted a link to an interview with her in which she did indicate that she saw her "ultimate realization" as being very much akin to Buddhist notions of enlightenment. then there's Gellert's book, "Modern Mysticism," in which he makes the claim that jung several days prior to his death had exclaimed after reading a book re Chan by a chan practitioner that that was exactly what he was getting at as re the Self. But, yes, Alice, I agree that much of the debate is semantics as for the Buddhist "no self" means pretty much the same as "all Self-" sunyata, the Buddhist term, while often translated by westerners as Void & then nihilistically interpretted as "nothingness" is really more appropriately interpretted as an undefinable unlimitable plenitude of "no-thingness." Agree with your sentiments alice as re same light in all lamps & we do tend to make it too complicated :-) Have a good one, Earl --- IonaDove@... wrote: From: IonaDove@...Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:41:34 ESTTo: JUNG-FIRE Subject: Re: surrender

There is one author who disputes Jung, Bernadette , who wrote three books on getting to No Self. She says Jung does not understand, and no she is not in the eastern Tradition but an ex catholic nun. I am exasperated, because if i could figure out where she was going I could re-translate that Self for myself. She insists we go beyond Self, after the unitive stage???? "The Path to No Self, and "The Experience of No Self" I have all 3 because one of the authors I really do like talked about her admireringly Keating even wrote the Foreword.

This stage beyond transforming Union, in fact that is where she starts, where others ( , end)

It sounds a bit as if she were writing ABOUT something, but I have not read her.

Mercury is the Trickster wh it comes to words/labels. "Define yr terms n arguments cease," which is why I use the diagram!

Perhaps she means, as I do, that the centerpt that Jung says is the center/totality of the psyche wh, as Euclid defines it, has no dimension, ergo is beyond time/space, n is the Divine Guest. In other words the Spirit wants to be us, but we are/are not Spirit. We are created, we did not create ourselves [even in nature] n co-create a life consciousness betw birth n death - our gift to the collective.

What I call the Pook! is of a different element entirely, just as the Sun is fire/light n all manifest life reflects it.

So mebbe yr author has the Pook in mind. Sun : solar system =

Self: individual =

atman, Christ w/in, Divine Guest.

As above, so below. We cld not BE w/out the Pook. In the Beginning was a Verb.

It is really simple, our egos make it complicated!

Read The Collect for Xmas. Gospel of ab "I am the Light that ligheth every man...."

The PROCESS for all mystics, called Christ Consciousness [by Christians] is UNIVERSAL n goes by other names, labels!! This is a realization that may take anoth 2000 years for us to grasp! In the meantime the killing goes on.

The flame in ev lantern is the SAME FLAME! [beejum Book].

Sorry for so many words!

Tired Old Lady also writing ABOUT!:]

ao

She says and he writes that"...wherein G-d is no longer known relative to the self, but instead is known as He is in Himself-known as He knows Himself..."

Rather a tall order don't you think! In the meantime just look in the eyes of one you love n find the Beloved loving back. That's all that is required for now. Netscape. just the net you need

[Guest guest]

Vienna19311@... writes:

<Many people believe that it is through surrender that spiritual energy

comes

<into the world.

Here is a painting on the subject of surrender called " Eye of Night " . It can

also be seen at www.carolspicuzza.com/eyeofnight.htm

The unconscious offered this painting before I made an intensive study of

Jung and von Franz' The Grail Legend. We began studying the Grail because

Jung identified it as the compensatory symbol for the problems posed by

Zarathustra. I knew the painting would be explained in the book and sure

enough it was. The figure is in a pose of surrender. She is in an ice cave,

the wasteland. In the upper left corner of the cave, a stag is depicted. It

is as though the meteorite originates from its kick.

EYE OF NIGHT

Jung tells us that the Grail represents a further development of our

spirituality, one where even matter and instinct have a divine spirit. The

Grail would also be an individual relation to the spirit as opposed to a

relationship through an organized religion.

The Grail was sometimes portrayed as a meteorite because in antiquity

meteorites were considered to be stones with a soul. I fantasize that the

appearance of the meteorite is synchronous with the kick of the stag. The

Grail is our potential wholeness and it is headed for the heart of the

woman. The heart of the individual becomes the Grail, the container of the

sacred substance. Jung says this means that the image of wholeness is

practically nonexistent unless it is realized in the human heart. We are the

interface by which God experiences the world. The Grail as heart shows our

renewal through contact with and transformation of the instincts (the stag).

It is a more conscious Eros, or relatedness, that understands what is good

for me may not be good for you.

Her relationship to the stag allows the process to proceed. The stag is an

ancient symbol for renewal because it sheds and regrows its antlers every

year. From the stag, the world of instincts, there arises a new spiritual

attitude. Jung tells us that our animal nature must be the starting place

for these things because then our whole nature is involved not just the

will. But it is as if the instincts fear the clutches of consciousness and

can live only when the person to some extent voluntarily surrenders their

will and feeling of superiority over the instincts so she can offer a

possibility of life to that more archaic part of herself. You must submit

with humility then you will not be injured. It's not a matter of willpower

but an act of submission. She humbly submits to this spirit of the earth.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

> Here is a painting on the subject of surrender called " Eye of

Night " . > It can also be seen at

http://www.carolspicuzza.com/eyeofnight.htm

Carol,

The outline created by the cave opening looks simian to me. Was that

deliberate?

Bruce

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol,

Wonderful! Again your painting spoke to me. I am full of wonder!

Strangely, I remember painting a woman tethered to and inside a cave...I

thought Plato's cave, , o years ago. During a bad time.

I imagined my idea of your woman, but with arms outstreched. I didn't paint

it...I won't paint until after we move, my studio no longer has heat...the

damn thing broke, the heater, not the studio.But of course my imagination

doesn't need much heat.

Thanks for this gorgeous painting...you and I must be close in our paths..

in our imaginations yes, the Grail is a further walk we must take, and yes,

matter and spirit. I have gone a little farther ...to the end. All is One,

All is in All. I don't think I ever carved out matter to worry about it (

except as one form of attachment) and I guess I always assumed I have the

Spirit within...even before I was " baptized in the Spirit " long ago.

The Grail reminds me of continued searching. I feel the searching is over,

at least for now. I now must rest and continue with the Treasure.Sit and

look, wonder, awe..going deeper as grace allows.

I am not sure I see the Grail as potential wholeness, except perhaps in

Jung's individuation, in a way. It is what one does with it when one has it

in sight. One drinks from it, no? and then there can be union. After that

union the Grail and i do become one, that is its purpose. The tale doesn't

end, but the search has. ( I don't mean I assume one " knows " G-d, but one

knows as far as human eyes can continue to delve, and love.)

I also agree on the Eros part. There is always that kind of love as well as

the other agape with which we are loved.. That i guess is because we still

have bodies, passions, emotions. All the literature, and Scripture describes

that.

Yes, it is not a matter of will power. It is a matter of will. Will has will

which we can give away and willfulness which is exercised by power.

Surrender is a giving in, not an overcoming, a yielding, not a clenched

teeth sort of thing. It has no goal. It is finished and only wants

surrender. To be where one belongs. As for superiority over the instincts.

Not to me, surrender is the instinct. It is in our nature...just well

covered over.

Thanks again, your painting speaks to me.Forgive me about the stag and

meteor, they are not part of my " symbol system " but I do understand what

they may mean. Now the ram caught in the thicket as Abram was about to

slaughter his son...now that fills me.

Isn't it fascinating how different symbols speak differently to us?

Toni

Re: surrender

> Vienna19311@... writes:

> <Many people believe that it is through surrender that spiritual energy

> comes

> <into the world.

>

> Here is a painting on the subject of surrender called " Eye of Night " . It

> can

> also be seen at www.carolspicuzza.com/eyeofnight.htm

>

> The unconscious offered this painting before I made an intensive study of

> Jung and von Franz' The Grail Legend. We began studying the Grail because

> Jung identified it as the compensatory symbol for the problems posed by

> Zarathustra. I knew the painting would be explained in the book and sure

> enough it was. The figure is in a pose of surrender. She is in an ice

> cave,

> the wasteland. In the upper left corner of the cave, a stag is depicted.

> It

> is as though the meteorite originates from its kick.

>

>

>

> EYE OF NIGHT

>

>

>

> Jung tells us that the Grail represents a further development of our

> spirituality, one where even matter and instinct have a divine spirit. The

> Grail would also be an individual relation to the spirit as opposed to a

> relationship through an organized religion.

>

>

>

> The Grail was sometimes portrayed as a meteorite because in antiquity

> meteorites were considered to be stones with a soul. I fantasize that the

> appearance of the meteorite is synchronous with the kick of the stag. The

> Grail is our potential wholeness and it is headed for the heart of the

> woman. The heart of the individual becomes the Grail, the container of the

> sacred substance. Jung says this means that the image of wholeness is

> practically nonexistent unless it is realized in the human heart. We are

> the

> interface by which God experiences the world. The Grail as heart shows our

> renewal through contact with and transformation of the instincts (the

> stag).

> It is a more conscious Eros, or relatedness, that understands what is good

> for me may not be good for you.

>

>

>

> Her relationship to the stag allows the process to proceed. The stag is an

> ancient symbol for renewal because it sheds and regrows its antlers every

> year. From the stag, the world of instincts, there arises a new spiritual

> attitude. Jung tells us that our animal nature must be the starting place

> for these things because then our whole nature is involved not just the

> will. But it is as if the instincts fear the clutches of consciousness and

> can live only when the person to some extent voluntarily surrenders their

> will and feeling of superiority over the instincts so she can offer a

> possibility of life to that more archaic part of herself. You must submit

> with humility then you will not be injured. It's not a matter of willpower

> but an act of submission. She humbly submits to this spirit of the earth.

>

>

>

> Carol

[Guest guest]

>

> http://www.carolspicuzza.com/eyeofnight.htm

>

> Carol,

>

> The outline created by the cave opening looks simian to me. Was that

> deliberate?

>

> Bruce

Dear Bruce,

The outline of the cave opening was not deliberate. Every element in the

paintings comes from the unconscious. I simply look around my world until I

get a feeling of being grabbed by an object and then I know it wants to be

included in the painting. I proceed in this way until the work is filled up.

But you and I had the same experience of the cave opening. I noticed that it

looked like something too, but to me it looked like the head of a newborn

lion cub still wet from its birth. The moon seems to be its eye. It seems to

be about to kiss the woman. Concerning the cat von Franz writes:

" There is a Celtic legend that tells us how an oracular shrine, located in a

certain cave, was found occupied by a slender cat reclining on a silver

couch. The cat was thus seen as a medium. It formed a bridge between good

and evil, with knowledge of both. It acted as a mediator between them as

well as between interior and exterior life, god and supernatural forces and

man. Because it has access to, and is at home in, both spheres, it has much

prophetic wisdom to impart and can teach us how to hold conflicting values

in balance. As a symbol of consciousness, it is a psychic entity that knows

the way - provided we learn to trust it, honoring, obeying and following

wherever it leads

There's an amusing autobiographical novel by Agatha Christie, whose second

husband was an archeologist who took her to do excavations in Egypt. They

lived in a small hut and the plague of mice and rats was so terrible that

they seriously thought of leaving. They put down poison and tried everything

but they couldn't get rid of them. Finally, they complained to their Arab

Sheik, who said, " Oh, that's very simple. " The next evening he arrived with

an enormous cat and said, " That will settle it. " The whole night they heard

thumps and squeaks and within three days there were no more mice. Agatha

Christie was absolutely overwhelmed by what the cat has really done for man,

and that makes us understand this sacred animal. She is a real protector and

helper, in the dark and at night when one feels helpless. "

I think this helps us understand the function of the cat in relation to the

Grail, the Grail being the thing that would help heal the split in

Christianity. The cat is the entity that can bridge the split. The fact that

the lion cub is newborn might refer to the fact that this energy is just

becoming available.

Carol

[Guest guest]

>

> Wonderful! Again your painting spoke to me. I am full of wonder!

> Strangely, I remember painting a woman tethered to and inside a cave

Dear Toni...how I wish I could see your paintings.

> Thanks for this gorgeous painting...you and I must be close in our paths..

> in our imaginations yes, the Grail is a further walk we must take, and

> yes,

> matter and spirit. I have gone a little farther ...to the end. All is One,

> All is in All. I don't think I ever carved out matter to worry about it (

> except as one form of attachment)

So, for you, matter was always sacred? The same for me. My Grail lesson

concerned learning to listen to my instincts once again as I had been forced

to ignore them as a child.

> I am not sure I see the Grail as potential wholeness, except perhaps in

> Jung's individuation, in a way. It is what one does with it when one has

> it

> in sight. One drinks from it, no? and then there can be union. After that

> union the Grail and i do become one, that is its purpose. The tale doesn't

> end, but the search has. ( I don't mean I assume one " knows " G-d, but one

> knows as far as human eyes can continue to delve, and love.)

Yes, everything I wrote is simply a repitition of The Grail Legend info. I

think they said that the Grail contains the potential wholeness and is a

" ...further development and completion of the Christian task in which the

value of the first half of the fish aeon is united with that of the

second... "

As for superiority over the instincts.

> Not to me, surrender is the instinct. It is in our nature...just well

> covered over.

That's a very interesting way to think of it. I like it.

> Thanks again, your painting speaks to me.Forgive me about the stag and

> meteor, they are not part of my " symbol system " but I do understand what

> they may mean. >

> Isn't it fascinating how different symbols speak differently to us?

> Toni

It really is fascinating. I guess the unc chose the stag and the meteor

because I was brought up in a Celtic atmosphere and was not exposed to

Christianity.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol,

I painted over, with gesso, that particular painting, as I have done, with

quite a few.

Those were of the period when my unconscious was having a field day and I

was never sure what would come out. I remember one " And Laughed " that

I painted for the synagogue and could never give to them. I was always

afraid someone would take umbrage.I meditated on that one for a long time

and then painted gesso over it to. I still have it in mind.

My adorable husband always asks me, " when are you going back to painting

things I can recognize " I used to do landscapes while I lived in Europe of

famous landmarks which sold well. So were far enough away from my, I could

show them and sell them...or give them away.

Some of my work is so abstract, no one can figure it out. Those I kept for

those who like or felt something.( My painting " Holocaust " may be intuited

by its color, but I can keep it because I seem to be the only one who sees

what i was trying to say.)

I am overawed by your ability to show your great work. It needs to be seen.

I think I went into very abstract art for a while because I needed order in

my life. Same things with mandalas. I like those. ( one hangs in the

bathroom!) Abstract expressionism is my favorite, because I got so tired of

landscape,painting leaves...I remember sitting in front of the easel and

saying to myself...I can do this, time to try something I cannot do.

When we move, I will take only a few that my husband likes ( landscapes of

course), and a very few that still speak to me.I have some great ideas of

what to paint next, and am attempting to describe them on paper so I can

paint again when I paint again.

I used to have slides of all of the artwork for entry into exhibitions. I

was a terrible photographer, and finally took a few to a professional. But I

haven't entered any show for over 10 years. You see that would mean

rejoining art associations again, and I don't want to do that. It would mean

really starting over with people who do not know me...I guess I am sick of

having to explain myself to others (except here).

So, I am sorry you won't be able to see any of my work. I sort of feel, once

I have expressed whatever was trying so hard to come out of my unconscious,

it wasn't of any use to me. I had a lot of ego to let go of. And of course

when I started painting, the new ideas of abstract expressionism wasn't

really understood, that's why I did landscapes. Those juried shows took a

lot of guts to enter, at least for me.

Your stuff is wonderful, I mean it. I can see it without even looking at it.

It will stay with me. Thank you.

love,

Toni

Re: surrender

>

>

>>

>> Wonderful! Again your painting spoke to me. I am full of wonder!

>> Strangely, I remember painting a woman tethered to and inside a cave

>

> Dear Toni...how I wish I could see your paintings.

>

>> Thanks for this gorgeous painting...you and I must be close in our

>> paths..

>> in our imaginations yes, the Grail is a further walk we must take, and

>> yes,

>> matter and spirit. I have gone a little farther ...to the end. All is

>> One,

>> All is in All. I don't think I ever carved out matter to worry about it (

>> except as one form of attachment)

>

> So, for you, matter was always sacred? The same for me. My Grail lesson

> concerned learning to listen to my instincts once again as I had been

> forced

> to ignore them as a child.

>

>> I am not sure I see the Grail as potential wholeness, except perhaps in

>> Jung's individuation, in a way. It is what one does with it when one has

>> it

>> in sight. One drinks from it, no? and then there can be union. After

>> that

>> union the Grail and i do become one, that is its purpose. The tale

>> doesn't

>> end, but the search has. ( I don't mean I assume one " knows " G-d, but one

>> knows as far as human eyes can continue to delve, and love.)

>

> Yes, everything I wrote is simply a repitition of The Grail Legend info. I

> think they said that the Grail contains the potential wholeness and is a

> " ...further development and completion of the Christian task in which the

> value of the first half of the fish aeon is united with that of the

> second... "

>

> As for superiority over the instincts.

>> Not to me, surrender is the instinct. It is in our nature...just well

>> covered over.

>

> That's a very interesting way to think of it. I like it.

>

>> Thanks again, your painting speaks to me.Forgive me about the stag and

>> meteor, they are not part of my " symbol system " but I do understand what

>> they may mean. >

>> Isn't it fascinating how different symbols speak differently to us?

>> Toni

>

> It really is fascinating. I guess the unc chose the stag and the meteor

> because I was brought up in a Celtic atmosphere and was not exposed to

> Christianity.

>

> Carol

>

[Guest guest]

>I guess the unc chose the stag and the meteor because I was brought >up in a

Celtic atmosphere and was not exposed to Christianity.

Dear Carol,

I too was touched by your painting. I had seen it before on your wesite, but

had never noticed the hidden stag before. I shared my second " big " dream on

this list about 5 years ago and received a wonderful variety of responses to it.

My dream involved a huge green fish I had " fished " from a hole in the floor of a

friend's living room. Just after I hoisted it onto the floor and watched the

expressions of astonishment on the faces of the two older people in the room, I

looked back down and it had transformed into a stag, with big brown eyes looking

into mine. It was an unforgettable dream...one that I have been processing for

years. So I go with you idea above the the unc chose the image for you. And

its combination with a meteor going to the heart of the feminine figure is very

powerful indeed. Thanks for sharing it.

Greg

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

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[Guest guest]

My dream involved a huge green fish I had " fished " from a hole in the

floor of a friend's living room. Just after I hoisted it onto the floor and

watched the expressions of astonishment on the faces of the two older people

in the room, I looked back down and it had transformed into a stag, with big

brown eyes looking into mine. It was an unforgettable dream...one that I

have been processing for years. So I go with you idea above the the unc

chose the image for you. And its combination with a meteor going to the

heart of the feminine figure is very powerful indeed. Thanks for sharing

it.

>

> Greg

Dear Greg...you're welcome. I wonder if you have read " The Grail Legend " by

Emma Jung and von Franz? It has some important amplifications of the stag

and also thoughts on the future task of Christianity. I think there is a lot

there that applies to your dream.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Carol wrote:

> I wonder if you have read " The Grail Legend " by Emma Jung and von Franz? It

has some important amplifications of the stag and also thoughts on the future

task of Christianity. I think there is a lot

there that applies to your dream.

Dear Carol,

Yes I have it and agree it is full of great references for the dream. And now

that you mentioned it, I think I'll have another look.

thanks,

greg

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

The most personalized portal on the Web!

[Guest guest]

>

> Some of my work is so abstract, no one can figure it out. Those I kept for

> those who like or felt something.( My painting " Holocaust " may be intuited

> by its color, but I can keep it because I seem to be the only one who sees

> what i was trying to say.)

Some of my favorite work is abstract expressionism. But the unc presents

things to me in a different way so... I know one artist named Anne Grgich,

she is usually put in the outsider/self-taught category but it is very

expressionistic. She can be seen at: http://www.annegrgich.com Her work is

haunting.

>

> I am overawed by your ability to show your great work. It needs to be

> seen.

> I think I went into very abstract art for a while because I needed order

> in

> my life. Same things with mandalas. I like those. ( one hangs in the

> bathroom!) Abstract expressionism is my favorite, because I got so tired

> of

> landscape,painting leaves...I remember sitting in front of the easel and

> saying to myself...I can do this, time to try something I cannot do.

I agree with you. Unless the work is connected to the spirit I have no

psychic energy for it whatsoever. My analyst friend says that the work is

not complete until it is presented to the public, but maybe he was only

talking to me and he didn't mean art in general.

>

> When we move, I will take only a few that my husband likes ( landscapes of

> course), and a very few that still speak to me.I have some great ideas of

> what to paint next, and am attempting to describe them on paper so I can

> paint again when I paint again.

More abstraction or are you moving on to something else?

>

> So, I am sorry you won't be able to see any of my work.

Do any of your kids own a digital camera? It's really easy to send pictures

on the net that way.

<<<3

Carol

[Guest guest]

Dear Carl,

I love her work. Will want to study it harder. So glad you sent me that

link. I will keep it!

Thanks

Toni

Re: surrender

>

>

>>

>> Some of my work is so abstract, no one can figure it out. Those I kept

>> for

>> those who like or felt something.( My painting " Holocaust " may be

>> intuited

>> by its color, but I can keep it because I seem to be the only one who

>> sees

>> what i was trying to say.)

>

> Some of my favorite work is abstract expressionism. But the unc presents

> things to me in a different way so... I know one artist named Anne Grgich,

> she is usually put in the outsider/self-taught category but it is very

> expressionistic. She can be seen at: http://www.annegrgich.com Her work

> is

> haunting.

>

>>

>> I am overawed by your ability to show your great work. It needs to be

>> seen.

>> I think I went into very abstract art for a while because I needed order

>> in

>> my life. Same things with mandalas. I like those. ( one hangs in the

>> bathroom!) Abstract expressionism is my favorite, because I got so tired

>> of

>> landscape,painting leaves...I remember sitting in front of the easel and

>> saying to myself...I can do this, time to try something I cannot do.

>

> I agree with you. Unless the work is connected to the spirit I have no

> psychic energy for it whatsoever. My analyst friend says that the work is

> not complete until it is presented to the public, but maybe he was only

> talking to me and he didn't mean art in general.

>

>>

>> When we move, I will take only a few that my husband likes ( landscapes

>> of

>> course), and a very few that still speak to me.I have some great ideas of

>> what to paint next, and am attempting to describe them on paper so I can

>> paint again when I paint again.

>

> More abstraction or are you moving on to something else?

>

>>

>> So, I am sorry you won't be able to see any of my work.

>

> Do any of your kids own a digital camera? It's really easy to send

> pictures

> on the net that way.

>

> <<<3

> Carol

>

>

>

>

>

> " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings

> may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering. "

>

> H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

>

>

>