Guest guest Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 > Hi,> here is an article that I think will speak to many of you!> > The article is below in the body of the email, as is the link.> > Pass it on!> And fill out your preferences for your health care - Five Wishes :> www.agingwithdignity.org/forms/5wishes.pdf> > > > Here is the link: http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/read/nexus/> > And here is the actual article:> > How Doctors Die> It’s Not Like the Rest of Us, But It Should Be> > by Ken Murray> Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of> mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area,> and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the> best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this> exact cancer that could triple a patient’s five-year-survival> odds—from 5 percent to 15 percent—albeit with a poor quality of life.> Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his> practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on> spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several> months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or> surgical treatment. Medicare didn’t spend much on him.> It’s not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And> they don’t die like the rest of us. What’s unusual about them is not> how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how> little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others,> they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They> know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they> generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But> they go gently.> Of course, doctors don’t want to die; they want to live. But they know> enough about modern medicine to know its limits. And they know enough> about death to know what all people fear most: dying in pain, and> dying alone. They’ve talked about this with their families. They want> to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will> happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on> earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them> with CPR (that’s what happens if CPR is done right).> Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call “futile care”> being performed on people. That’s when doctors bring the cutting edge> of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life.> The patient will get cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to> machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the> Intensive Care Unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day.> What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist. I cannot> count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words> that vary only slightly, “Promise me if you find me like this that> you’ll kill me.” They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions> stamped “NO CODE” to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I> have even seen it as a tattoo.> To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing.> Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of> their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they’ll> vent. “How can anyone do that to their family members?” they’ll ask. I> suspect it’s one reason physicians have higher rates of alcohol abuse> and depression than professionals in most other fields. I know it’s> one reason I stopped participating in hospital care for the last 10> years of my practice.> How has it come to this—that doctors administer so much care that they> wouldn’t want for themselves? The simple, or not-so-simple, answer is> this: patients, doctors, and the system.> To see how patients play a role, imagine a scenario in which someone> has lost consciousness and been admitted to an emergency room. As is> so often the case, no one has made a plan for this situation, and> shocked and scared family members find themselves caught up in a maze> of choices. They’re overwhelmed. When doctors ask if they want> “everything” done, they answer yes. Then the nightmare begins.> Sometimes, a family really means “do everything,” but often they just> mean “do everything that’s reasonable.” The problem is that they may> not know what’s reasonable, nor, in their confusion and sorrow, will> they ask about it or hear what a physician may be telling them. For> their part, doctors told to do “everything” will do it, whether it is> reasonable or not.> The above scenario is a common one. Feeding into the problem are> unrealistic expectations of what doctors can accomplish. Many people> think of CPR as a reliable lifesaver when, in fact, the results are> usually poor. I’ve had hundreds of people brought to me in the> emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who’d had> no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a “tension> pneumothorax”), walked out of the hospital. If a patient suffers from> severe illness, old age, or a terminal disease, the odds of a good> outcome from CPR are infinitesimal, while the odds of suffering are> overwhelming. Poor knowledge and misguided expectations lead to a lot> of bad decisions.> But of course it’s not just patients making these things happen.> Doctors play an enabling role, too. The trouble is that even doctors> who hate to administer futile care must find a way to address the> wishes of patients and families. Imagine, once again, the emergency> room with those grieving, possibly hysterical, family members. They do> not know the doctor. Establishing trust and confidence under such> circumstances is a very delicate thing. People are prepared to think> the doctor is acting out of base motives, trying to save time, or> money, or effort, especially if the doctor is advising against further> treatment.> Some doctors are stronger communicators than others, and some doctors> are more adamant, but the pressures they all face are similar. When I> faced circumstances involving end-of-life choices, I adopted the> approach of laying out only the options that I thought were reasonable> (as I would in any situation) as early in the process as possible.> When patients or families brought up unreasonable choices, I would> discuss the issue in layman’s terms that portrayed the downsides> clearly. If patients or families still insisted on treatments I> considered pointless or harmful, I would offer to transfer their care> to another doctor or hospital.> Should I have been more forceful at times? I know that some of those> transfers still haunt me. One of the patients of whom I was most fond> was an attorney from a famous political family. She had severe> diabetes and terrible circulation, and, at one point, she developed a> painful sore on her foot. Knowing the hazards of hospitals, I did> everything I could to keep her from resorting to surgery. Still, she> sought out outside experts with whom I had no relationship. Not> knowing as much about her as I did, they decided to perform bypass> surgery on her chronically clogged blood vessels in both legs. This> didn’t restore her circulation, and the surgical wounds wouldn’t heal.> Her feet became gangrenous, and she endured bilateral leg amputations.> Two weeks later, in the famous medical center in which all this had> occurred, she died.> It’s easy to find fault with both doctors and patients in such> stories, but in many ways all the parties are simply victims of a> larger system that encourages excessive treatment. In some unfortunate> cases, doctors use the fee-for-service model to do everything they> can, no matter how pointless, to make money. More commonly, though,> doctors are fearful of litigation and do whatever they’re asked, with> little feedback, to avoid getting in trouble.> Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still> swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack, a> 78-year-old who had been ill for years and undergone about 15 major> surgical procedures. He explained to me that he never, under any> circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. One> Saturday, however, Jack suffered a massive stroke and got admitted to> the emergency room unconscious, without his wife. Doctors did> everything possible to resuscitate him and put him on life support in> the ICU. This was Jack’s worst nightmare. When I arrived at the> hospital and took over Jack’s care, I spoke to his wife and to> hospital staff, bringing in my office notes with his care preferences.> Then I turned off the life support machines and sat with him. He died> two hours later.> Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn’t died as he’d hoped.> The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even> reported my unplugging of Jack to the authorities as a possible> homicide. Nothing came of it, of course; Jack’s wishes had been> spelled out explicitly, and he’d left the paperwork to prove it. But> the prospect of a police investigation is terrifying for any> physician. I could far more easily have left Jack on life support> against his stated wishes, prolonging his life, and his suffering, a> few more weeks. I would even have made a little more money, and> Medicare would have ended up with an additional $500,000 bill. It’s no> wonder many doctors err on the side of overtreatment.> But doctors still don’t over-treat themselves. They see the> consequences of this constantly. Almost anyone can find a way to die> in peace at home, and pain can be managed better than ever. Hospice> care, which focuses on providing terminally ill patients with comfort> and dignity rather than on futile cures, provides most people with> much better final days. Amazingly, studies have found that people> placed in hospice care often live longer than people with the same> disease who are seeking active cures. I was struck to hear on the> radio recently that the famous reporter Tom Wicker had “died> peacefully at home, surrounded by his family.” Such stories are,> thankfully, increasingly common.> Several years ago, my older cousin Torch (born at home by the light of> a flashlight—or torch) had a seizure that turned out to be the result> of lung cancer that had gone to his brain. I arranged for him to see> various specialists, and we learned that with aggressive treatment of> his condition, including three to five hospital visits a week for> chemotherapy, he would live perhaps four months. Ultimately, Torch> decided against any treatment and simply took pills for brain> swelling. He moved in with me.> We spent the next eight months doing a bunch of things that he> enjoyed, having fun together like we hadn’t had in decades. We went to> Disneyland, his first time. We’d hang out at home. Torch was a sports> nut, and he was very happy to watch sports and eat my cooking. He even> gained a bit of weight, eating his favorite foods rather than hospital> foods. He had no serious pain, and he remained high-spirited. One day,> he didn’t wake up. He spent the next three days in a coma-like sleep> and then died. The cost of his medical care for those eight months,> for the one drug he was taking, was about $20.> Torch was no doctor, but he knew he wanted a life of quality, not just> quantity. Don’t most of us? If there is a state of the art of> end-of-life care, it is this: death with dignity. As for me, my> physician has my choices. They were easy to make, as they are for most> physicians. There will be no heroics, and I will go gentle into that> good night. Like my mentor Charlie. Like my cousin Torch. Like my> fellow doctors.> Ken Murray, MD, is Clinical Assistant Professor of Family Medicine at USC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Wonderful...!---Sharlene > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > here is an article that I think will speak to many of you! > > > > The article is below in the body of the email, as is the link. > > > > Pass it on! > > And fill out your preferences for your health care - Five Wishes : > > www.agingwithdignity.org/forms/5wishes.pdf > > > > > > > > Here is the link: http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/read/ne\ xus/ > > > > And here is the actual article: > > > > How Doctors Die > > It's Not Like the Rest of Us, But It Should Be > > > > by Ken Murray > > Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of > > mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, > > and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the > > best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this > > exact cancer that could triple a patient's five-year-survival > > odds—from 5 percent to 15 percent—albeit with a poor quality of life. > > Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his > > practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on > > spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several > > months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or > > surgical treatment. Medicare didn't spend much on him. > > It's not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And > > they don't die like the rest of us. What's unusual about them is not > > how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how > > little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others, > > they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They > > know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they > > generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But > > they go gently. > > Of course, doctors don't want to die; they want to live. But they know > > enough about modern medicine to know its limits. And they know enough > > about death to know what all people fear most: dying in pain, and > > dying alone. They've talked about this with their families. They want > > to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will > > happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on > > earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them > > with CPR (that's what happens if CPR is done right). > > Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call " futile care " > > being performed on people. That's when doctors bring the cutting edge > > of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life. > > The patient will get cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to > > machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the > > Intensive Care Unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day. > > What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist. I cannot > > count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words > > that vary only slightly, " Promise me if you find me like this that > > you'll kill me. " They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions > > stamped " NO CODE " to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I > > have even seen it as a tattoo. > > To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing. > > Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of > > their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they'll > > vent. " How can anyone do that to their family members? " they'll ask. I > > suspect it's one reason physicians have higher rates of alcohol abuse > > and depression than professionals in most other fields. I know it's > > one reason I stopped participating in hospital care for the last 10 > > years of my practice. > > How has it come to this—that doctors administer so much care that they > > wouldn't want for themselves? The simple, or not-so-simple, answer is > > this: patients, doctors, and the system. > > To see how patients play a role, imagine a scenario in which someone > > has lost consciousness and been admitted to an emergency room. As is > > so often the case, no one has made a plan for this situation, and > > shocked and scared family members find themselves caught up in a maze > > of choices. They're overwhelmed. When doctors ask if they want > > " everything " done, they answer yes. Then the nightmare begins. > > Sometimes, a family really means " do everything, " but often they just > > mean " do everything that's reasonable. " The problem is that they may > > not know what's reasonable, nor, in their confusion and sorrow, will > > they ask about it or hear what a physician may be telling them. For > > their part, doctors told to do " everything " will do it, whether it is > > reasonable or not. > > The above scenario is a common one. Feeding into the problem are > > unrealistic expectations of what doctors can accomplish. Many people > > think of CPR as a reliable lifesaver when, in fact, the results are > > usually poor. I've had hundreds of people brought to me in the > > emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who'd had > > no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a " tension > > pneumothorax " ), walked out of the hospital. If a patient suffers from > > severe illness, old age, or a terminal disease, the odds of a good > > outcome from CPR are infinitesimal, while the odds of suffering are > > overwhelming. Poor knowledge and misguided expectations lead to a lot > > of bad decisions. > > But of course it's not just patients making these things happen. > > Doctors play an enabling role, too. The trouble is that even doctors > > who hate to administer futile care must find a way to address the > > wishes of patients and families. Imagine, once again, the emergency > > room with those grieving, possibly hysterical, family members. They do > > not know the doctor. Establishing trust and confidence under such > > circumstances is a very delicate thing. People are prepared to think > > the doctor is acting out of base motives, trying to save time, or > > money, or effort, especially if the doctor is advising against further > > treatment. > > Some doctors are stronger communicators than others, and some doctors > > are more adamant, but the pressures they all face are similar. When I > > faced circumstances involving end-of-life choices, I adopted the > > approach of laying out only the options that I thought were reasonable > > (as I would in any situation) as early in the process as possible. > > When patients or families brought up unreasonable choices, I would > > discuss the issue in layman's terms that portrayed the downsides > > clearly. If patients or families still insisted on treatments I > > considered pointless or harmful, I would offer to transfer their care > > to another doctor or hospital. > > Should I have been more forceful at times? I know that some of those > > transfers still haunt me. One of the patients of whom I was most fond > > was an attorney from a famous political family. She had severe > > diabetes and terrible circulation, and, at one point, she developed a > > painful sore on her foot. Knowing the hazards of hospitals, I did > > everything I could to keep her from resorting to surgery. Still, she > > sought out outside experts with whom I had no relationship. Not > > knowing as much about her as I did, they decided to perform bypass > > surgery on her chronically clogged blood vessels in both legs. This > > didn't restore her circulation, and the surgical wounds wouldn't heal. > > Her feet became gangrenous, and she endured bilateral leg amputations. > > Two weeks later, in the famous medical center in which all this had > > occurred, she died. > > It's easy to find fault with both doctors and patients in such > > stories, but in many ways all the parties are simply victims of a > > larger system that encourages excessive treatment. In some unfortunate > > cases, doctors use the fee-for-service model to do everything they > > can, no matter how pointless, to make money. More commonly, though, > > doctors are fearful of litigation and do whatever they're asked, with > > little feedback, to avoid getting in trouble. > > Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still > > swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack, a > > 78-year-old who had been ill for years and undergone about 15 major > > surgical procedures. He explained to me that he never, under any > > circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. One > > Saturday, however, Jack suffered a massive stroke and got admitted to > > the emergency room unconscious, without his wife. Doctors did > > everything possible to resuscitate him and put him on life support in > > the ICU. This was Jack's worst nightmare. When I arrived at the > > hospital and took over Jack's care, I spoke to his wife and to > > hospital staff, bringing in my office notes with his care preferences. > > Then I turned off the life support machines and sat with him. He died > > two hours later. > > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn't died as he'd hoped. > > The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even > > reported my unplugging of Jack to the authorities as a possible > > homicide. Nothing came of it, of course; Jack's wishes had been > > spelled out explicitly, and he'd left the paperwork to prove it. But > > the prospect of a police investigation is terrifying for any > > physician. I could far more easily have left Jack on life support > > against his stated wishes, prolonging his life, and his suffering, a > > few more weeks. I would even have made a little more money, and > > Medicare would have ended up with an additional $500,000 bill. It's no > > wonder many doctors err on the side of overtreatment. > > But doctors still don't over-treat themselves. They see the > > consequences of this constantly. Almost anyone can find a way to die > > in peace at home, and pain can be managed better than ever. Hospice > > care, which focuses on providing terminally ill patients with comfort > > and dignity rather than on futile cures, provides most people with > > much better final days. Amazingly, studies have found that people > > placed in hospice care often live longer than people with the same > > disease who are seeking active cures. I was struck to hear on the > > radio recently that the famous reporter Tom Wicker had " died > > peacefully at home, surrounded by his family. " Such stories are, > > thankfully, increasingly common. > > Several years ago, my older cousin Torch (born at home by the light of > > a flashlight—or torch) had a seizure that turned out to be the result > > of lung cancer that had gone to his brain. I arranged for him to see > > various specialists, and we learned that with aggressive treatment of > > his condition, including three to five hospital visits a week for > > chemotherapy, he would live perhaps four months. Ultimately, Torch > > decided against any treatment and simply took pills for brain > > swelling. He moved in with me. > > We spent the next eight months doing a bunch of things that he > > enjoyed, having fun together like we hadn't had in decades. We went to > > Disneyland, his first time. We'd hang out at home. Torch was a sports > > nut, and he was very happy to watch sports and eat my cooking. He even > > gained a bit of weight, eating his favorite foods rather than hospital > > foods. He had no serious pain, and he remained high-spirited. One day, > > he didn't wake up. He spent the next three days in a coma-like sleep > > and then died. The cost of his medical care for those eight months, > > for the one drug he was taking, was about $20. > > Torch was no doctor, but he knew he wanted a life of quality, not just > > quantity. Don't most of us? If there is a state of the art of > > end-of-life care, it is this: death with dignity. As for me, my > > physician has my choices. They were easy to make, as they are for most > > physicians. There will be no heroics, and I will go gentle into that > > good night. Like my mentor Charlie. Like my cousin Torch. Like my > > fellow doctors. > > Ken Murray, MD, is Clinical Assistant Professor of Family Medicine at USC. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 5 Wishes looks to be a useful document and I also had not heard of it. I have found the POLST forms helpful: http://www.ohsu.edu/polst Interested in people's thoughts on the similarities/differences if they have compared the two.Sharon Sharon McCoy MDRenaissance Family Medicine10 McClintock Court; Irvine, CA 92617PH: (949)387-5504 Fax: (949)281-2197 Toll free phone/fax: www.SharonMD.com Wonderful...!---Sharlene > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > here is an article that I think will speak to many of you! > > > > The article is below in the body of the email, as is the link. > > > > Pass it on! > > And fill out your preferences for your health care - Five Wishes : > > www.agingwithdignity.org/forms/5wishes.pdf > > > > > > > > Here is the link: http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/read/nexus/ > > > > And here is the actual article: > > > > How Doctors Die > > It's Not Like the Rest of Us, But It Should Be > > > > by Ken Murray > > Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of > > mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, > > and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the > > best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this > > exact cancer that could triple a patient's five-year-survival > > odds—from 5 percent to 15 percent—albeit with a poor quality of life. > > Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his > > practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on > > spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several > > months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or > > surgical treatment. Medicare didn't spend much on him. > > It's not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And > > they don't die like the rest of us. What's unusual about them is not > > how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how > > little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others, > > they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They > > know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they > > generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But > > they go gently. > > Of course, doctors don't want to die; they want to live. But they know > > enough about modern medicine to know its limits. And they know enough > > about death to know what all people fear most: dying in pain, and > > dying alone. They've talked about this with their families. They want > > to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will > > happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on > > earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them > > with CPR (that's what happens if CPR is done right). > > Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call " futile care " > > being performed on people. That's when doctors bring the cutting edge > > of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life. > > The patient will get cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to > > machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the > > Intensive Care Unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day. > > What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist. I cannot > > count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words > > that vary only slightly, " Promise me if you find me like this that > > you'll kill me. " They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions > > stamped " NO CODE " to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I > > have even seen it as a tattoo. > > To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing. > > Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of > > their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they'll > > vent. " How can anyone do that to their family members? " they'll ask. I > > suspect it's one reason physicians have higher rates of alcohol abuse > > and depression than professionals in most other fields. I know it's > > one reason I stopped participating in hospital care for the last 10 > > years of my practice. > > How has it come to this—that doctors administer so much care that they > > wouldn't want for themselves? The simple, or not-so-simple, answer is > > this: patients, doctors, and the system. > > To see how patients play a role, imagine a scenario in which someone > > has lost consciousness and been admitted to an emergency room. As is > > so often the case, no one has made a plan for this situation, and > > shocked and scared family members find themselves caught up in a maze > > of choices. They're overwhelmed. When doctors ask if they want > > " everything " done, they answer yes. Then the nightmare begins. > > Sometimes, a family really means " do everything, " but often they just > > mean " do everything that's reasonable. " The problem is that they may > > not know what's reasonable, nor, in their confusion and sorrow, will > > they ask about it or hear what a physician may be telling them. For > > their part, doctors told to do " everything " will do it, whether it is > > reasonable or not. > > The above scenario is a common one. Feeding into the problem are > > unrealistic expectations of what doctors can accomplish. Many people > > think of CPR as a reliable lifesaver when, in fact, the results are > > usually poor. I've had hundreds of people brought to me in the > > emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who'd had > > no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a " tension > > pneumothorax " ), walked out of the hospital. If a patient suffers from > > severe illness, old age, or a terminal disease, the odds of a good > > outcome from CPR are infinitesimal, while the odds of suffering are > > overwhelming. Poor knowledge and misguided expectations lead to a lot > > of bad decisions. > > But of course it's not just patients making these things happen. > > Doctors play an enabling role, too. The trouble is that even doctors > > who hate to administer futile care must find a way to address the > > wishes of patients and families. Imagine, once again, the emergency > > room with those grieving, possibly hysterical, family members. They do > > not know the doctor. Establishing trust and confidence under such > > circumstances is a very delicate thing. People are prepared to think > > the doctor is acting out of base motives, trying to save time, or > > money, or effort, especially if the doctor is advising against further > > treatment. > > Some doctors are stronger communicators than others, and some doctors > > are more adamant, but the pressures they all face are similar. When I > > faced circumstances involving end-of-life choices, I adopted the > > approach of laying out only the options that I thought were reasonable > > (as I would in any situation) as early in the process as possible. > > When patients or families brought up unreasonable choices, I would > > discuss the issue in layman's terms that portrayed the downsides > > clearly. If patients or families still insisted on treatments I > > considered pointless or harmful, I would offer to transfer their care > > to another doctor or hospital. > > Should I have been more forceful at times? I know that some of those > > transfers still haunt me. One of the patients of whom I was most fond > > was an attorney from a famous political family. She had severe > > diabetes and terrible circulation, and, at one point, she developed a > > painful sore on her foot. Knowing the hazards of hospitals, I did > > everything I could to keep her from resorting to surgery. Still, she > > sought out outside experts with whom I had no relationship. Not > > knowing as much about her as I did, they decided to perform bypass > > surgery on her chronically clogged blood vessels in both legs. This > > didn't restore her circulation, and the surgical wounds wouldn't heal. > > Her feet became gangrenous, and she endured bilateral leg amputations. > > Two weeks later, in the famous medical center in which all this had > > occurred, she died. > > It's easy to find fault with both doctors and patients in such > > stories, but in many ways all the parties are simply victims of a > > larger system that encourages excessive treatment. In some unfortunate > > cases, doctors use the fee-for-service model to do everything they > > can, no matter how pointless, to make money. More commonly, though, > > doctors are fearful of litigation and do whatever they're asked, with > > little feedback, to avoid getting in trouble. > > Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still > > swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack, a > > 78-year-old who had been ill for years and undergone about 15 major > > surgical procedures. He explained to me that he never, under any > > circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. One > > Saturday, however, Jack suffered a massive stroke and got admitted to > > the emergency room unconscious, without his wife. Doctors did > > everything possible to resuscitate him and put him on life support in > > the ICU. This was Jack's worst nightmare. When I arrived at the > > hospital and took over Jack's care, I spoke to his wife and to > > hospital staff, bringing in my office notes with his care preferences. > > Then I turned off the life support machines and sat with him. He died > > two hours later. > > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn't died as he'd hoped. > > The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even > > reported my unplugging of Jack to the authorities as a possible > > homicide. Nothing came of it, of course; Jack's wishes had been > > spelled out explicitly, and he'd left the paperwork to prove it. But > > the prospect of a police investigation is terrifying for any > > physician. I could far more easily have left Jack on life support > > against his stated wishes, prolonging his life, and his suffering, a > > few more weeks. I would even have made a little more money, and > > Medicare would have ended up with an additional $500,000 bill. It's no > > wonder many doctors err on the side of overtreatment. > > But doctors still don't over-treat themselves. They see the > > consequences of this constantly. Almost anyone can find a way to die > > in peace at home, and pain can be managed better than ever. Hospice > > care, which focuses on providing terminally ill patients with comfort > > and dignity rather than on futile cures, provides most people with > > much better final days. Amazingly, studies have found that people > > placed in hospice care often live longer than people with the same > > disease who are seeking active cures. I was struck to hear on the > > radio recently that the famous reporter Tom Wicker had " died > > peacefully at home, surrounded by his family. " Such stories are, > > thankfully, increasingly common. > > Several years ago, my older cousin Torch (born at home by the light of > > a flashlight—or torch) had a seizure that turned out to be the result > > of lung cancer that had gone to his brain. I arranged for him to see > > various specialists, and we learned that with aggressive treatment of > > his condition, including three to five hospital visits a week for > > chemotherapy, he would live perhaps four months. Ultimately, Torch > > decided against any treatment and simply took pills for brain > > swelling. He moved in with me. > > We spent the next eight months doing a bunch of things that he > > enjoyed, having fun together like we hadn't had in decades. We went to > > Disneyland, his first time. We'd hang out at home. Torch was a sports > > nut, and he was very happy to watch sports and eat my cooking. He even > > gained a bit of weight, eating his favorite foods rather than hospital > > foods. He had no serious pain, and he remained high-spirited. One day, > > he didn't wake up. He spent the next three days in a coma-like sleep > > and then died. The cost of his medical care for those eight months, > > for the one drug he was taking, was about $20. > > Torch was no doctor, but he knew he wanted a life of quality, not just > > quantity. Don't most of us? If there is a state of the art of > > end-of-life care, it is this: death with dignity. As for me, my > > physician has my choices. They were easy to make, as they are for most > > physicians. There will be no heroics, and I will go gentle into that > > good night. Like my mentor Charlie. Like my cousin Torch. Like my > > fellow doctors. > > Ken Murray, MD, is Clinical Assistant Professor of Family Medicine at USC. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Have used POLST before including for my mom. Key difference is that POLST is an actual physician order designed to protect a patient from undesired CPR, etc. In my mom's case gave her assisted living facility legal cover to not call 911 at the drop of a hat. Marty 5 Wishes looks to be a useful document and I also had not heard of it. I have found the POLST forms helpful: http://www.ohsu.edu/polst Interested in people's thoughts on the similarities/differences if they have compared the two.Sharon Sharon McCoy MDRenaissance Family Medicine10 McClintock Court; Irvine, CA 92617PH: (949)387-5504 Fax: (949)281-2197 Toll free phone/fax: www.SharonMD.com Wonderful...!---Sharlene > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > here is an article that I think will speak to many of you! > > > > The article is below in the body of the email, as is the link. > > > > Pass it on! > > And fill out your preferences for your health care - Five Wishes : > > www.agingwithdignity.org/forms/5wishes.pdf > > > > > > > > Here is the link: http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/read/nexus/ > > > > And here is the actual article: > > > > How Doctors Die > > It's Not Like the Rest of Us, But It Should Be > > > > by Ken Murray > > Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of > > mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, > > and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the > > best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this > > exact cancer that could triple a patient's five-year-survival > > odds—from 5 percent to 15 percent—albeit with a poor quality of life. > > Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his > > practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on > > spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several > > months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or > > surgical treatment. Medicare didn't spend much on him. > > It's not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And > > they don't die like the rest of us. What's unusual about them is not > > how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how > > little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others, > > they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They > > know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they > > generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But > > they go gently. > > Of course, doctors don't want to die; they want to live. But they know > > enough about modern medicine to know its limits. And they know enough > > about death to know what all people fear most: dying in pain, and > > dying alone. They've talked about this with their families. They want > > to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will > > happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on > > earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them > > with CPR (that's what happens if CPR is done right). > > Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call " futile care " > > being performed on people. That's when doctors bring the cutting edge > > of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life. > > The patient will get cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to > > machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the > > Intensive Care Unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day. > > What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist. I cannot > > count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words > > that vary only slightly, " Promise me if you find me like this that > > you'll kill me. " They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions > > stamped " NO CODE " to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I > > have even seen it as a tattoo. > > To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing. > > Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of > > their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they'll > > vent. " How can anyone do that to their family members? " they'll ask. I > > suspect it's one reason physicians have higher rates of alcohol abuse > > and depression than professionals in most other fields. I know it's > > one reason I stopped participating in hospital care for the last 10 > > years of my practice. > > How has it come to this—that doctors administer so much care that they > > wouldn't want for themselves? The simple, or not-so-simple, answer is > > this: patients, doctors, and the system. > > To see how patients play a role, imagine a scenario in which someone > > has lost consciousness and been admitted to an emergency room. As is > > so often the case, no one has made a plan for this situation, and > > shocked and scared family members find themselves caught up in a maze > > of choices. They're overwhelmed. When doctors ask if they want > > " everything " done, they answer yes. Then the nightmare begins. > > Sometimes, a family really means " do everything, " but often they just > > mean " do everything that's reasonable. " The problem is that they may > > not know what's reasonable, nor, in their confusion and sorrow, will > > they ask about it or hear what a physician may be telling them. For > > their part, doctors told to do " everything " will do it, whether it is > > reasonable or not. > > The above scenario is a common one. Feeding into the problem are > > unrealistic expectations of what doctors can accomplish. Many people > > think of CPR as a reliable lifesaver when, in fact, the results are > > usually poor. I've had hundreds of people brought to me in the > > emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who'd had > > no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a " tension > > pneumothorax " ), walked out of the hospital. If a patient suffers from > > severe illness, old age, or a terminal disease, the odds of a good > > outcome from CPR are infinitesimal, while the odds of suffering are > > overwhelming. Poor knowledge and misguided expectations lead to a lot > > of bad decisions. > > But of course it's not just patients making these things happen. > > Doctors play an enabling role, too. The trouble is that even doctors > > who hate to administer futile care must find a way to address the > > wishes of patients and families. Imagine, once again, the emergency > > room with those grieving, possibly hysterical, family members. They do > > not know the doctor. Establishing trust and confidence under such > > circumstances is a very delicate thing. People are prepared to think > > the doctor is acting out of base motives, trying to save time, or > > money, or effort, especially if the doctor is advising against further > > treatment. > > Some doctors are stronger communicators than others, and some doctors > > are more adamant, but the pressures they all face are similar. When I > > faced circumstances involving end-of-life choices, I adopted the > > approach of laying out only the options that I thought were reasonable > > (as I would in any situation) as early in the process as possible. > > When patients or families brought up unreasonable choices, I would > > discuss the issue in layman's terms that portrayed the downsides > > clearly. If patients or families still insisted on treatments I > > considered pointless or harmful, I would offer to transfer their care > > to another doctor or hospital. > > Should I have been more forceful at times? I know that some of those > > transfers still haunt me. One of the patients of whom I was most fond > > was an attorney from a famous political family. She had severe > > diabetes and terrible circulation, and, at one point, she developed a > > painful sore on her foot. Knowing the hazards of hospitals, I did > > everything I could to keep her from resorting to surgery. Still, she > > sought out outside experts with whom I had no relationship. Not > > knowing as much about her as I did, they decided to perform bypass > > surgery on her chronically clogged blood vessels in both legs. This > > didn't restore her circulation, and the surgical wounds wouldn't heal. > > Her feet became gangrenous, and she endured bilateral leg amputations. > > Two weeks later, in the famous medical center in which all this had > > occurred, she died. > > It's easy to find fault with both doctors and patients in such > > stories, but in many ways all the parties are simply victims of a > > larger system that encourages excessive treatment. In some unfortunate > > cases, doctors use the fee-for-service model to do everything they > > can, no matter how pointless, to make money. More commonly, though, > > doctors are fearful of litigation and do whatever they're asked, with > > little feedback, to avoid getting in trouble. > > Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still > > swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack, a > > 78-year-old who had been ill for years and undergone about 15 major > > surgical procedures. He explained to me that he never, under any > > circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. One > > Saturday, however, Jack suffered a massive stroke and got admitted to > > the emergency room unconscious, without his wife. Doctors did > > everything possible to resuscitate him and put him on life support in > > the ICU. This was Jack's worst nightmare. When I arrived at the > > hospital and took over Jack's care, I spoke to his wife and to > > hospital staff, bringing in my office notes with his care preferences. > > Then I turned off the life support machines and sat with him. He died > > two hours later. > > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn't died as he'd hoped. > > The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even > > reported my unplugging of Jack to the authorities as a possible > > homicide. Nothing came of it, of course; Jack's wishes had been > > spelled out explicitly, and he'd left the paperwork to prove it. But > > the prospect of a police investigation is terrifying for any > > physician. I could far more easily have left Jack on life support > > against his stated wishes, prolonging his life, and his suffering, a > > few more weeks. I would even have made a little more money, and > > Medicare would have ended up with an additional $500,000 bill. It's no > > wonder many doctors err on the side of overtreatment. > > But doctors still don't over-treat themselves. They see the > > consequences of this constantly. Almost anyone can find a way to die > > in peace at home, and pain can be managed better than ever. Hospice > > care, which focuses on providing terminally ill patients with comfort > > and dignity rather than on futile cures, provides most people with > > much better final days. Amazingly, studies have found that people > > placed in hospice care often live longer than people with the same > > disease who are seeking active cures. I was struck to hear on the > > radio recently that the famous reporter Tom Wicker had " died > > peacefully at home, surrounded by his family. " Such stories are, > > thankfully, increasingly common. > > Several years ago, my older cousin Torch (born at home by the light of > > a flashlight—or torch) had a seizure that turned out to be the result > > of lung cancer that had gone to his brain. I arranged for him to see > > various specialists, and we learned that with aggressive treatment of > > his condition, including three to five hospital visits a week for > > chemotherapy, he would live perhaps four months. Ultimately, Torch > > decided against any treatment and simply took pills for brain > > swelling. He moved in with me. > > We spent the next eight months doing a bunch of things that he > > enjoyed, having fun together like we hadn't had in decades. We went to > > Disneyland, his first time. We'd hang out at home. Torch was a sports > > nut, and he was very happy to watch sports and eat my cooking. He even > > gained a bit of weight, eating his favorite foods rather than hospital > > foods. He had no serious pain, and he remained high-spirited. One day, > > he didn't wake up. He spent the next three days in a coma-like sleep > > and then died. The cost of his medical care for those eight months, > > for the one drug he was taking, was about $20. > > Torch was no doctor, but he knew he wanted a life of quality, not just > > quantity. Don't most of us? If there is a state of the art of > > end-of-life care, it is this: death with dignity. As for me, my > > physician has my choices. They were easy to make, as they are for most > > physicians. There will be no heroics, and I will go gentle into that > > good night. Like my mentor Charlie. Like my cousin Torch. Like my > > fellow doctors. > > Ken Murray, MD, is Clinical Assistant Professor of Family Medicine at USC. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Marty,So you would see someone at the end of life having both POLST and 5Wishes? By the way, I wrote to both organizations and asked how the two interacted and I'll post what I learn.Sharon Sharon McCoy MDRenaissance Family Medicine10 McClintock Court; Irvine, CA 92617PH: (949)387-5504 Fax: (949)281-2197 Toll free phone/fax: www.SharonMD.com Have used POLST before including for my mom. Key difference is that POLST is an actual physician order designed to protect a patient from undesired CPR, etc. In my mom's case gave her assisted living facility legal cover to not call 911 at the drop of a hat. Marty 5 Wishes looks to be a useful document and I also had not heard of it. I have found the POLST forms helpful: http://www.ohsu.edu/polst Interested in people's thoughts on the similarities/differences if they have compared the two.Sharon Sharon McCoy MDRenaissance Family Medicine10 McClintock Court; Irvine, CA 92617PH: (949)387-5504 Fax: (949)281-2197 Toll free phone/fax: www.SharonMD.com Wonderful...!---Sharlene > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > here is an article that I think will speak to many of you! > > > > The article is below in the body of the email, as is the link. > > > > Pass it on! > > And fill out your preferences for your health care - Five Wishes : > > www.agingwithdignity.org/forms/5wishes.pdf > > > > > > > > Here is the link: http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/read/nexus/ > > > > And here is the actual article: > > > > How Doctors Die > > It's Not Like the Rest of Us, But It Should Be > > > > by Ken Murray > > Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of > > mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, > > and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the > > best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this > > exact cancer that could triple a patient's five-year-survival > > odds—from 5 percent to 15 percent—albeit with a poor quality of life. > > Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his > > practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on > > spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several > > months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or > > surgical treatment. Medicare didn't spend much on him. > > It's not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And > > they don't die like the rest of us. What's unusual about them is not > > how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how > > little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others, > > they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They > > know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they > > generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But > > they go gently. > > Of course, doctors don't want to die; they want to live. But they know > > enough about modern medicine to know its limits. And they know enough > > about death to know what all people fear most: dying in pain, and > > dying alone. They've talked about this with their families. They want > > to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will > > happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on > > earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them > > with CPR (that's what happens if CPR is done right). > > Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call " futile care " > > being performed on people. That's when doctors bring the cutting edge > > of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life. > > The patient will get cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to > > machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the > > Intensive Care Unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day. > > What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist. I cannot > > count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words > > that vary only slightly, " Promise me if you find me like this that > > you'll kill me. " They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions > > stamped " NO CODE " to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I > > have even seen it as a tattoo. > > To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing. > > Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of > > their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they'll > > vent. " How can anyone do that to their family members? " they'll ask. I > > suspect it's one reason physicians have higher rates of alcohol abuse > > and depression than professionals in most other fields. I know it's > > one reason I stopped participating in hospital care for the last 10 > > years of my practice. > > How has it come to this—that doctors administer so much care that they > > wouldn't want for themselves? The simple, or not-so-simple, answer is > > this: patients, doctors, and the system. > > To see how patients play a role, imagine a scenario in which someone > > has lost consciousness and been admitted to an emergency room. As is > > so often the case, no one has made a plan for this situation, and > > shocked and scared family members find themselves caught up in a maze > > of choices. They're overwhelmed. When doctors ask if they want > > " everything " done, they answer yes. Then the nightmare begins. > > Sometimes, a family really means " do everything, " but often they just > > mean " do everything that's reasonable. " The problem is that they may > > not know what's reasonable, nor, in their confusion and sorrow, will > > they ask about it or hear what a physician may be telling them. For > > their part, doctors told to do " everything " will do it, whether it is > > reasonable or not. > > The above scenario is a common one. Feeding into the problem are > > unrealistic expectations of what doctors can accomplish. Many people > > think of CPR as a reliable lifesaver when, in fact, the results are > > usually poor. I've had hundreds of people brought to me in the > > emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who'd had > > no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a " tension > > pneumothorax " ), walked out of the hospital. If a patient suffers from > > severe illness, old age, or a terminal disease, the odds of a good > > outcome from CPR are infinitesimal, while the odds of suffering are > > overwhelming. Poor knowledge and misguided expectations lead to a lot > > of bad decisions. > > But of course it's not just patients making these things happen. > > Doctors play an enabling role, too. The trouble is that even doctors > > who hate to administer futile care must find a way to address the > > wishes of patients and families. Imagine, once again, the emergency > > room with those grieving, possibly hysterical, family members. They do > > not know the doctor. Establishing trust and confidence under such > > circumstances is a very delicate thing. People are prepared to think > > the doctor is acting out of base motives, trying to save time, or > > money, or effort, especially if the doctor is advising against further > > treatment. > > Some doctors are stronger communicators than others, and some doctors > > are more adamant, but the pressures they all face are similar. When I > > faced circumstances involving end-of-life choices, I adopted the > > approach of laying out only the options that I thought were reasonable > > (as I would in any situation) as early in the process as possible. > > When patients or families brought up unreasonable choices, I would > > discuss the issue in layman's terms that portrayed the downsides > > clearly. If patients or families still insisted on treatments I > > considered pointless or harmful, I would offer to transfer their care > > to another doctor or hospital. > > Should I have been more forceful at times? I know that some of those > > transfers still haunt me. One of the patients of whom I was most fond > > was an attorney from a famous political family. She had severe > > diabetes and terrible circulation, and, at one point, she developed a > > painful sore on her foot. Knowing the hazards of hospitals, I did > > everything I could to keep her from resorting to surgery. Still, she > > sought out outside experts with whom I had no relationship. Not > > knowing as much about her as I did, they decided to perform bypass > > surgery on her chronically clogged blood vessels in both legs. This > > didn't restore her circulation, and the surgical wounds wouldn't heal. > > Her feet became gangrenous, and she endured bilateral leg amputations. > > Two weeks later, in the famous medical center in which all this had > > occurred, she died. > > It's easy to find fault with both doctors and patients in such > > stories, but in many ways all the parties are simply victims of a > > larger system that encourages excessive treatment. In some unfortunate > > cases, doctors use the fee-for-service model to do everything they > > can, no matter how pointless, to make money. More commonly, though, > > doctors are fearful of litigation and do whatever they're asked, with > > little feedback, to avoid getting in trouble. > > Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still > > swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack, a > > 78-year-old who had been ill for years and undergone about 15 major > > surgical procedures. He explained to me that he never, under any > > circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. One > > Saturday, however, Jack suffered a massive stroke and got admitted to > > the emergency room unconscious, without his wife. Doctors did > > everything possible to resuscitate him and put him on life support in > > the ICU. This was Jack's worst nightmare. When I arrived at the > > hospital and took over Jack's care, I spoke to his wife and to > > hospital staff, bringing in my office notes with his care preferences. > > Then I turned off the life support machines and sat with him. He died > > two hours later. > > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn't died as he'd hoped. > > The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even > > reported my unplugging of Jack to the authorities as a possible > > homicide. Nothing came of it, of course; Jack's wishes had been > > spelled out explicitly, and he'd left the paperwork to prove it. But > > the prospect of a police investigation is terrifying for any > > physician. I could far more easily have left Jack on life support > > against his stated wishes, prolonging his life, and his suffering, a > > few more weeks. I would even have made a little more money, and > > Medicare would have ended up with an additional $500,000 bill. It's no > > wonder many doctors err on the side of overtreatment. > > But doctors still don't over-treat themselves. They see the > > consequences of this constantly. Almost anyone can find a way to die > > in peace at home, and pain can be managed better than ever. Hospice > > care, which focuses on providing terminally ill patients with comfort > > and dignity rather than on futile cures, provides most people with > > much better final days. Amazingly, studies have found that people > > placed in hospice care often live longer than people with the same > > disease who are seeking active cures. I was struck to hear on the > > radio recently that the famous reporter Tom Wicker had " died > > peacefully at home, surrounded by his family. " Such stories are, > > thankfully, increasingly common. > > Several years ago, my older cousin Torch (born at home by the light of > > a flashlight—or torch) had a seizure that turned out to be the result > > of lung cancer that had gone to his brain. I arranged for him to see > > various specialists, and we learned that with aggressive treatment of > > his condition, including three to five hospital visits a week for > > chemotherapy, he would live perhaps four months. Ultimately, Torch > > decided against any treatment and simply took pills for brain > > swelling. He moved in with me. > > We spent the next eight months doing a bunch of things that he > > enjoyed, having fun together like we hadn't had in decades. We went to > > Disneyland, his first time. We'd hang out at home. Torch was a sports > > nut, and he was very happy to watch sports and eat my cooking. He even > > gained a bit of weight, eating his favorite foods rather than hospital > > foods. He had no serious pain, and he remained high-spirited. One day, > > he didn't wake up. He spent the next three days in a coma-like sleep > > and then died. The cost of his medical care for those eight months, > > for the one drug he was taking, was about $20. > > Torch was no doctor, but he knew he wanted a life of quality, not just > > quantity. Don't most of us? If there is a state of the art of > > end-of-life care, it is this: death with dignity. As for me, my > > physician has my choices. They were easy to make, as they are for most > > physicians. There will be no heroics, and I will go gentle into that > > good night. Like my mentor Charlie. Like my cousin Torch. Like my > > fellow doctors. > > Ken Murray, MD, is Clinical Assistant Professor of Family Medicine at USC. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Below is what I offer patients on my web site. Although my page is for Alabama, you will likely find similar resources on your state’s Bar Association web site. http://docneighbors.com/nun_office/Info_AdvanceDirectiveInformation.html From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Marty SchulmanSent: Monday, June 04, 2012 7:03 PMTo: Subject: Re: Re: How Doctors Die Have used POLST before including for my mom. Key difference is that POLST is an actual physician order designed to protect a patient from undesired CPR, etc. In my mom's case gave her assisted living facility legal cover to not call 911 at the drop of a hat.Marty 5 Wishes looks to be a useful document and I also had not heard of it. I have found the POLST forms helpful: http://www.ohsu.edu/polst Interested in people's thoughts on the similarities/differences if they have compared the two. Sharon Sharon McCoy MDRenaissance Family Medicine10 McClintock Court; Irvine, CA 92617PH: (949)387-5504 Fax: (949)281-2197 Toll free phone/fax: www.SharonMD.com Wonderful...!---Sharlene>> > > > > > > > > Hi,> > here is an article that I think will speak to many of you!> > > > The article is below in the body of the email, as is the link.> > > > Pass it on!> > And fill out your preferences for your health care - Five Wishes :> > www.agingwithdignity.org/forms/5wishes.pdf> > > > > > > > Here is the link: http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/read/nexus/> > > > And here is the actual article:> > > > How Doctors Die> > It's Not Like the Rest of Us, But It Should Be> > > > by Ken Murray> > Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of> > mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area,> > and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the> > best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this> > exact cancer that could triple a patient's five-year-survival> > odds—from 5 percent to 15 percent—albeit with a poor quality of life.> > Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his> > practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on> > spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several> > months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or> > surgical treatment. Medicare didn't spend much on him.> > It's not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And> > they don't die like the rest of us. What's unusual about them is not> > how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how> > little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others,> > they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They> > know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they> > generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But> > they go gently.> > Of course, doctors don't want to die; they want to live. But they know> > enough about modern medicine to know its limits. And they know enough> > about death to know what all people fear most: dying in pain, and> > dying alone. They've talked about this with their families. They want> > to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will> > happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on> > earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them> > with CPR (that's what happens if CPR is done right).> > Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call " futile care " > > being performed on people. That's when doctors bring the cutting edge> > of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life.> > The patient will get cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to> > machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the> > Intensive Care Unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day.> > What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist. I cannot> > count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words> > that vary only slightly, " Promise me if you find me like this that> > you'll kill me. " They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions> > stamped " NO CODE " to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I> > have even seen it as a tattoo.> > To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing.> > Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of> > their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they'll> > vent. " How can anyone do that to their family members? " they'll ask. I> > suspect it's one reason physicians have higher rates of alcohol abuse> > and depression than professionals in most other fields. I know it's> > one reason I stopped participating in hospital care for the last 10> > years of my practice.> > How has it come to this—that doctors administer so much care that they> > wouldn't want for themselves? The simple, or not-so-simple, answer is> > this: patients, doctors, and the system.> > To see how patients play a role, imagine a scenario in which someone> > has lost consciousness and been admitted to an emergency room. As is> > so often the case, no one has made a plan for this situation, and> > shocked and scared family members find themselves caught up in a maze> > of choices. They're overwhelmed. When doctors ask if they want> > " everything " done, they answer yes. Then the nightmare begins.> > Sometimes, a family really means " do everything, " but often they just> > mean " do everything that's reasonable. " The problem is that they may> > not know what's reasonable, nor, in their confusion and sorrow, will> > they ask about it or hear what a physician may be telling them. For> > their part, doctors told to do " everything " will do it, whether it is> > reasonable or not.> > The above scenario is a common one. Feeding into the problem are> > unrealistic expectations of what doctors can accomplish. Many people> > think of CPR as a reliable lifesaver when, in fact, the results are> > usually poor. I've had hundreds of people brought to me in the> > emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who'd had> > no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a " tension> > pneumothorax " ), walked out of the hospital. If a patient suffers from> > severe illness, old age, or a terminal disease, the odds of a good> > outcome from CPR are infinitesimal, while the odds of suffering are> > overwhelming. Poor knowledge and misguided expectations lead to a lot> > of bad decisions.> > But of course it's not just patients making these things happen.> > Doctors play an enabling role, too. The trouble is that even doctors> > who hate to administer futile care must find a way to address the> > wishes of patients and families. Imagine, once again, the emergency> > room with those grieving, possibly hysterical, family members. They do> > not know the doctor. Establishing trust and confidence under such> > circumstances is a very delicate thing. People are prepared to think> > the doctor is acting out of base motives, trying to save time, or> > money, or effort, especially if the doctor is advising against further> > treatment.> > Some doctors are stronger communicators than others, and some doctors> > are more adamant, but the pressures they all face are similar. When I> > faced circumstances involving end-of-life choices, I adopted the> > approach of laying out only the options that I thought were reasonable> > (as I would in any situation) as early in the process as possible.> > When patients or families brought up unreasonable choices, I would> > discuss the issue in layman's terms that portrayed the downsides> > clearly. If patients or families still insisted on treatments I> > considered pointless or harmful, I would offer to transfer their care> > to another doctor or hospital.> > Should I have been more forceful at times? I know that some of those> > transfers still haunt me. One of the patients of whom I was most fond> > was an attorney from a famous political family. She had severe> > diabetes and terrible circulation, and, at one point, she developed a> > painful sore on her foot. Knowing the hazards of hospitals, I did> > everything I could to keep her from resorting to surgery. Still, she> > sought out outside experts with whom I had no relationship. Not> > knowing as much about her as I did, they decided to perform bypass> > surgery on her chronically clogged blood vessels in both legs. This> > didn't restore her circulation, and the surgical wounds wouldn't heal.> > Her feet became gangrenous, and she endured bilateral leg amputations.> > Two weeks later, in the famous medical center in which all this had> > occurred, she died.> > It's easy to find fault with both doctors and patients in such> > stories, but in many ways all the parties are simply victims of a> > larger system that encourages excessive treatment. In some unfortunate> > cases, doctors use the fee-for-service model to do everything they> > can, no matter how pointless, to make money. More commonly, though,> > doctors are fearful of litigation and do whatever they're asked, with> > little feedback, to avoid getting in trouble.> > Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still> > swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack, a> > 78-year-old who had been ill for years and undergone about 15 major> > surgical procedures. He explained to me that he never, under any> > circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. One> > Saturday, however, Jack suffered a massive stroke and got admitted to> > the emergency room unconscious, without his wife. Doctors did> > everything possible to resuscitate him and put him on life support in> > the ICU. This was Jack's worst nightmare. When I arrived at the> > hospital and took over Jack's care, I spoke to his wife and to> > hospital staff, bringing in my office notes with his care preferences.> > Then I turned off the life support machines and sat with him. He died> > two hours later.> > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn't died as he'd hoped.> > The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even> > reported my unplugging of Jack to the authorities as a possible> > homicide. Nothing came of it, of course; Jack's wishes had been> > spelled out explicitly, and he'd left the paperwork to prove it. But> > the prospect of a police investigation is terrifying for any> > physician. I could far more easily have left Jack on life support> > against his stated wishes, prolonging his life, and his suffering, a> > few more weeks. I would even have made a little more money, and> > Medicare would have ended up with an additional $500,000 bill. It's no> > wonder many doctors err on the side of overtreatment.> > But doctors still don't over-treat themselves. They see the> > consequences of this constantly. Almost anyone can find a way to die> > in peace at home, and pain can be managed better than ever. Hospice> > care, which focuses on providing terminally ill patients with comfort> > and dignity rather than on futile cures, provides most people with> > much better final days. Amazingly, studies have found that people> > placed in hospice care often live longer than people with the same> > disease who are seeking active cures. I was struck to hear on the> > radio recently that the famous reporter Tom Wicker had " died> > peacefully at home, surrounded by his family. " Such stories are,> > thankfully, increasingly common.> > Several years ago, my older cousin Torch (born at home by the light of> > a flashlight—or torch) had a seizure that turned out to be the result> > of lung cancer that had gone to his brain. I arranged for him to see> > various specialists, and we learned that with aggressive treatment of> > his condition, including three to five hospital visits a week for> > chemotherapy, he would live perhaps four months. Ultimately, Torch> > decided against any treatment and simply took pills for brain> > swelling. He moved in with me.> > We spent the next eight months doing a bunch of things that he> > enjoyed, having fun together like we hadn't had in decades. We went to> > Disneyland, his first time. We'd hang out at home. Torch was a sports> > nut, and he was very happy to watch sports and eat my cooking. He even> > gained a bit of weight, eating his favorite foods rather than hospital> > foods. He had no serious pain, and he remained high-spirited. One day,> > he didn't wake up. He spent the next three days in a coma-like sleep> > and then died. The cost of his medical care for those eight months,> > for the one drug he was taking, was about $20.> > Torch was no doctor, but he knew he wanted a life of quality, not just> > quantity. Don't most of us? If there is a state of the art of> > end-of-life care, it is this: death with dignity. As for me, my> > physician has my choices. They were easy to make, as they are for most> > physicians. There will be no heroics, and I will go gentle into that> > good night. Like my mentor Charlie. Like my cousin Torch. Like my> > fellow doctors.> > Ken Murray, MD, is Clinical Assistant Professor of Family Medicine at USC.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Thanks .Sharon Below is what I offer patients on my web site. Although my page is for Alabama, you will likely find similar resources on your state’s Bar Association web site. http://docneighbors.com/nun_office/Info_AdvanceDirectiveInformation.html From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Marty Schulman Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 7:03 PMTo: Subject: Re: Re: How Doctors Die Have used POLST before including for my mom. Key difference is that POLST is an actual physician order designed to protect a patient from undesired CPR, etc. In my mom's case gave her assisted living facility legal cover to not call 911 at the drop of a hat. Marty 5 Wishes looks to be a useful document and I also had not heard of it. I have found the POLST forms helpful: http://www.ohsu.edu/polst Interested in people's thoughts on the similarities/differences if they have compared the two. Sharon Sharon McCoy MDRenaissance Family Medicine 10 McClintock Court; Irvine, CA 92617PH: (949)387-5504 Fax: (949)281-2197 Toll free phone/fax: www.SharonMD.comOn Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 6:36 AM, sharkinn wrote: Wonderful...!---Sharlene >> > > > > > > > > Hi,> > here is an article that I think will speak to many of you!> > > > The article is below in the body of the email, as is the link. > > > > Pass it on!> > And fill out your preferences for your health care - Five Wishes :> > www.agingwithdignity.org/forms/5wishes.pdf > > > > > > > > Here is the link: http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/read/nexus/ > > > > And here is the actual article:> > > > How Doctors Die> > It's Not Like the Rest of Us, But It Should Be> > > > by Ken Murray> > Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of > > mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area,> > and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the> > best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this > > exact cancer that could triple a patient's five-year-survival> > odds—from 5 percent to 15 percent—albeit with a poor quality of life.> > Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his > > practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on> > spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several> > months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or > > surgical treatment. Medicare didn't spend much on him.> > It's not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And> > they don't die like the rest of us. What's unusual about them is not > > how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how> > little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others,> > they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They > > know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they> > generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But> > they go gently.> > Of course, doctors don't want to die; they want to live. But they know > > enough about modern medicine to know its limits. And they know enough> > about death to know what all people fear most: dying in pain, and> > dying alone. They've talked about this with their families. They want > > to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will> > happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on> > earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them > > with CPR (that's what happens if CPR is done right).> > Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call " futile care " > > being performed on people. That's when doctors bring the cutting edge > > of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life.> > The patient will get cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to> > machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the > > Intensive Care Unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day.> > What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist. I cannot> > count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words > > that vary only slightly, " Promise me if you find me like this that> > you'll kill me. " They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions> > stamped " NO CODE " to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I > > have even seen it as a tattoo.> > To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing.> > Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of> > their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they'll > > vent. " How can anyone do that to their family members? " they'll ask. I> > suspect it's one reason physicians have higher rates of alcohol abuse> > and depression than professionals in most other fields. I know it's > > one reason I stopped participating in hospital care for the last 10> > years of my practice.> > How has it come to this—that doctors administer so much care that they> > wouldn't want for themselves? The simple, or not-so-simple, answer is > > this: patients, doctors, and the system.> > To see how patients play a role, imagine a scenario in which someone> > has lost consciousness and been admitted to an emergency room. As is> > so often the case, no one has made a plan for this situation, and > > shocked and scared family members find themselves caught up in a maze> > of choices. They're overwhelmed. When doctors ask if they want> > " everything " done, they answer yes. Then the nightmare begins. > > Sometimes, a family really means " do everything, " but often they just> > mean " do everything that's reasonable. " The problem is that they may> > not know what's reasonable, nor, in their confusion and sorrow, will > > they ask about it or hear what a physician may be telling them. For> > their part, doctors told to do " everything " will do it, whether it is> > reasonable or not.> > The above scenario is a common one. Feeding into the problem are > > unrealistic expectations of what doctors can accomplish. Many people> > think of CPR as a reliable lifesaver when, in fact, the results are> > usually poor. I've had hundreds of people brought to me in the > > emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who'd had> > no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a " tension> > pneumothorax " ), walked out of the hospital. If a patient suffers from > > severe illness, old age, or a terminal disease, the odds of a good> > outcome from CPR are infinitesimal, while the odds of suffering are> > overwhelming. Poor knowledge and misguided expectations lead to a lot > > of bad decisions.> > But of course it's not just patients making these things happen.> > Doctors play an enabling role, too. The trouble is that even doctors> > who hate to administer futile care must find a way to address the > > wishes of patients and families. Imagine, once again, the emergency> > room with those grieving, possibly hysterical, family members. They do> > not know the doctor. Establishing trust and confidence under such > > circumstances is a very delicate thing. People are prepared to think> > the doctor is acting out of base motives, trying to save time, or> > money, or effort, especially if the doctor is advising against further > > treatment.> > Some doctors are stronger communicators than others, and some doctors> > are more adamant, but the pressures they all face are similar. When I> > faced circumstances involving end-of-life choices, I adopted the > > approach of laying out only the options that I thought were reasonable> > (as I would in any situation) as early in the process as possible.> > When patients or families brought up unreasonable choices, I would > > discuss the issue in layman's terms that portrayed the downsides> > clearly. If patients or families still insisted on treatments I> > considered pointless or harmful, I would offer to transfer their care > > to another doctor or hospital.> > Should I have been more forceful at times? I know that some of those> > transfers still haunt me. One of the patients of whom I was most fond> > was an attorney from a famous political family. She had severe > > diabetes and terrible circulation, and, at one point, she developed a> > painful sore on her foot. Knowing the hazards of hospitals, I did> > everything I could to keep her from resorting to surgery. Still, she > > sought out outside experts with whom I had no relationship. Not> > knowing as much about her as I did, they decided to perform bypass> > surgery on her chronically clogged blood vessels in both legs. This > > didn't restore her circulation, and the surgical wounds wouldn't heal.> > Her feet became gangrenous, and she endured bilateral leg amputations.> > Two weeks later, in the famous medical center in which all this had > > occurred, she died.> > It's easy to find fault with both doctors and patients in such> > stories, but in many ways all the parties are simply victims of a> > larger system that encourages excessive treatment. In some unfortunate > > cases, doctors use the fee-for-service model to do everything they> > can, no matter how pointless, to make money. More commonly, though,> > doctors are fearful of litigation and do whatever they're asked, with > > little feedback, to avoid getting in trouble.> > Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still> > swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack, a> > 78-year-old who had been ill for years and undergone about 15 major > > surgical procedures. He explained to me that he never, under any> > circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. One> > Saturday, however, Jack suffered a massive stroke and got admitted to > > the emergency room unconscious, without his wife. Doctors did> > everything possible to resuscitate him and put him on life support in> > the ICU. This was Jack's worst nightmare. When I arrived at the > > hospital and took over Jack's care, I spoke to his wife and to> > hospital staff, bringing in my office notes with his care preferences.> > Then I turned off the life support machines and sat with him. He died > > two hours later.> > Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn't died as he'd hoped.> > The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even> > reported my unplugging of Jack to the authorities as a possible > > homicide. Nothing came of it, of course; Jack's wishes had been> > spelled out explicitly, and he'd left the paperwork to prove it. But> > the prospect of a police investigation is terrifying for any > > physician. I could far more easily have left Jack on life support> > against his stated wishes, prolonging his life, and his suffering, a> > few more weeks. I would even have made a little more money, and > > Medicare would have ended up with an additional $500,000 bill. It's no> > wonder many doctors err on the side of overtreatment.> > But doctors still don't over-treat themselves. They see the > > consequences of this constantly. Almost anyone can find a way to die> > in peace at home, and pain can be managed better than ever. Hospice> > care, which focuses on providing terminally ill patients with comfort > > and dignity rather than on futile cures, provides most people with> > much better final days. Amazingly, studies have found that people> > placed in hospice care often live longer than people with the same > > disease who are seeking active cures. I was struck to hear on the> > radio recently that the famous reporter Tom Wicker had " died> > peacefully at home, surrounded by his family. " Such stories are, > > thankfully, increasingly common.> > Several years ago, my older cousin Torch (born at home by the light of> > a flashlight—or torch) had a seizure that turned out to be the result> > of lung cancer that had gone to his brain. I arranged for him to see > > various specialists, and we learned that with aggressive treatment of> > his condition, including three to five hospital visits a week for> > chemotherapy, he would live perhaps four months. Ultimately, Torch > > decided against any treatment and simply took pills for brain> > swelling. He moved in with me.> > We spent the next eight months doing a bunch of things that he> > enjoyed, having fun together like we hadn't had in decades. We went to > > Disneyland, his first time. We'd hang out at home. Torch was a sports> > nut, and he was very happy to watch sports and eat my cooking. He even> > gained a bit of weight, eating his favorite foods rather than hospital > > foods. He had no serious pain, and he remained high-spirited. One day,> > he didn't wake up. He spent the next three days in a coma-like sleep> > and then died. The cost of his medical care for those eight months, > > for the one drug he was taking, was about $20.> > Torch was no doctor, but he knew he wanted a life of quality, not just> > quantity. Don't most of us? If there is a state of the art of > > end-of-life care, it is this: death with dignity. As for me, my> > physician has my choices. They were easy to make, as they are for most> > physicians. There will be no heroics, and I will go gentle into that > > good night. Like my mentor Charlie. Like my cousin Torch. Like my> > fellow doctors.> > Ken Murray, MD, is Clinical Assistant Professor of Family Medicine at USC.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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