Re: Tuesday morning

[Guest guest]

You can only do so much- She is going to lay a huge guilt trip on you

if you let her. I know she's your Mother and you want to help her. My

Father who is an alcoholic is a lot like her. You can make sure she

is in a safe place (you have)Don't let her mess up your life -you

need to put yourself and your family first.

It sounds like you and your sister are doing all the right things-

getting her in a safe place, taking care of her house, trying to sell

stuff so she will have some money for her needs. That is all you can

humanly do. You can't change people- unfortunately it doesn't work

that way.

Hopefully with the right meds she will settle in a bit better and it

will be easier.

Take care

Sharon

>

> The nurse at the psych hospital, is her name, called and

said that

> my mom needs cigarettes and that she wants to talk to me. I asked

how she

> was doing, and said that she's extremely depressed, and

upset

> because her daughters are selling everything so they (we) can have

her

> money. I asked how I should handle that when I talk to , and

> said that I should answer her questions honestly. When I said that

it's

> hard to tell how much of it is the LBD paranoia/delusional behavior

and if I

> could really even get through to her or if the " queer proteins "

will keep

> her from understanding she said it didn't matter, that I should

answer he

> questions honestly, as many times as she asks them, for as long as

she keeps

> asking.

>

> So she put my mom on the phone, and told me that she needs

cigarettes.

> I told her I'd bring her some (actually my husband is driving them

downstate

> right now, that's one expensive habit, the gas will cost almost as

much as

> the carton of cigs!) and asked how she was doing. She said she's

never been

> in a depression like this before, how was her piano and why were we

going to

> sell it? I told her that I understood about her depression and

that's why

> she was there, to try and get her meds straightened out so the

blackness

> would lift. And I told her that her things needed to be sold

because there

> would be no place to keep them, and she needed the money. She

asked why it

> couldn't stay in her house and I said that the IRS was seizing it.

She

> started crying - sobbing - gulping sobs - and raising her voice

that she

> couldn't stand it, she can't stand losing everything and if she

could just

> get out for a couple of hours she could end it all. There's

nothing left to

> live for without her piano and her house...I told her that Gwen and

I loved

> her and needed her, that she had grandchildren to needed her in

their lives,

> that she was important to us...she said without her piano and her

house she

> had no life, and so forth.

>

> What I heard: who cares about you, none of that matters as much as

my

> stuff...but get my cigarettes down here to me and then you're

useless. I

> can tell myself all day long that it's not really her - but it is.

For

> years she has turned down almost every invitation or opportunity to

spend

> time with her family and rejected almost every attempt to be close

to her.

> Maybe that was the disease too, maybe not - but it doesn't feel

nice coming

> from my mother...

>

> Anyway, back to her: She doesn't want to go back to the NH as she

has no

> future there, nothing to look forward to, no life. Anything we

offer her

> comes from ourselves, from our hearts, but isn't important to her.

How, at

> this stage, could she ever develop into someone that actually cares

about

> people? That actually has interest in anything besides her own

stuff? That

> has interests outside of herself? None of those things have matter

to her

> for many years, if ever; are they actually going to matter now? Or

do we

> just try and prolong a life she considers not worth living, a life

of

> despair and misery and frustration? What can we possibly give her

that

> would count for anything at all, realistically? How can we provide

meaning

> where she has none?

>

> Has anybody else who's dealt with this been able to make a

difference and

> offer anything that would provide a reason to get out of bed every

morning?

>

> His,

> Sherry

> www.owly.net

>

[Guest guest]

JANNIS,

WHAT A BEAUFTIFUL ANSWER.

JAYN IN S GA

In a message dated 4/30/2008 8:18:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

janthegoddess2003@... writes:

Sherry ~

I've read your posts since you joined this group, and my heart goes out to

you. I know that all this is so painful for you, because it seems as if you

and your sister never really had a close relationship with your mother, never

really had that mother/child relationship that we all wanted and craved. And

now, in her twilight, you'd like to think that all the loving and caring

things you're doing for her would bring about a change in your mother, but it's

not happening. She's still the woman she was all your life. Nothing you can do

for her will satisfy her, for she is a woman who depended on accumulation of

possessions and admiration for her wealth as her means for satisfaction.

I've just had to accept that my mother is as she had always

been...demanding, pefectionist, critical, judgmental..I've just had to accept

that my mother

is as she had always been...demanding, pefectionist, critical, j

We can't get from our mothers now what we didn't get as children. I know

that the most important thing I got from my mother was my resolve to not repeat

her behaviors with my own children. I stay connected with them, but it is

because I was connected all their lives. I am loving, because I've loved them.

I'm understanding and accepting of them as unique individuals, but that's

because I always saw them that way. They were my priorities!

My mom has shown a disconnect with all of us for all her life. She knows who

we are, but there's no acknowledgment or tenderness or anything toward us.

We are simply people there to do her bidding. We could be home health aides,

we could be hospice, we could be anyone. However, it was because she never

nurtured or fostered strong feelings of family with any of us. Honestly,

growing

up as children, not one of us trusted her. We knew that at any moment we

could be slapped across the room for something we didn't even know we did! We

all walked on eggs, skulking around and trying to evade her wrath. My dad, who

has the primary care responsibility for mother, is still finding that hard to

deal with. For a short period of time, she would tell him she loves him,

would show appreciation for the things he did, would kiss him...now she simply

orders him around and keeps him running, fetching things for her and doing for

her...just as she did all their lives together. We

were all her servants as I was growing up, and we still are.

The least judgmental, most accepting and loving person I ever knew was my

paternal grandmother. That's where I received unconditional love and learned

how to give it to my children, and that's how I can take care of my mother.

Many times I feel as if I'm being called upon to be a better person than I am.

I know your mother's behavior hurts. The one thing I can pray for you is

that you understand and accept that you can't change anything about her...not

the way she was when you were growing up, and not now. Those things she held

dear are those things which she used to define herself. She's losing those

things...the house, the piano, the jewelry...and in this process she's losing

her

entire identity and sense of who she is. That's a frightening thing to go

through even without the confusion of LBD.

The scripture under my name is what gets me through. I just wait upon the

Lord to give me strength...*The scr

Jannis

" They that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount

up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; they shall walk and

not faint. " -- Isaiah 40:31

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Amen, !

-Kate

In a message dated 4/30/2008 4:11:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

sythompson@... writes:

You can only do so much- She is going to lay a huge guilt trip on you

if you let her. I know she's your Mother and you want to help her. My

Father who is an alcoholic is a lot like her. You can make sure she

is in a safe place (you have)Don't let her mess up your life -you

need to put yourself and your family first.

It sounds like you and your sister are doing all the right things-

getting her in a safe place, taking care of her house, trying to sell

stuff so she will have some money for her needs. That is all you can

humanly do. You can't change people- unfortunately it doesn't work

that way.

Hopefully with the right meds she will settle in a bit better and it

will be easier.

Take care

Sharon

Kate Deddens

" To be Queen within a definite area, deciding sales, banquets,

labors, and holidays; to be Whitely within a certain area, providing toys,

boots, cakes, and books; to be Aristotle within a certain area, teaching

morals,

manners, theology and hygiene; I can understand how this might exhaust the

mind, but I cannot imagine how it could narrow it. How can it be a large career

to tell other people's children about the Rule of Three, and a small career

to tell one's own children about the universe? How can it be broad to be the

same thing to everyone and narrow to be everything to someone? No, a woman's

function is laborious, but because it is gigantic, not because it is minute. "

-G.K. Chesterton, What's Wrong with the World

" The peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your

hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. " --Phil. 4:7

" When peace, like a river, attendeth my way, when sorrows like sea billows

roll; whatever my lot, thou hast taught me to say,

'It is well, it is well with my soul'. "

--Horatio G. Spafford, 1873

_Girl.fromPersia_ (http://360.yahoo.com/girl.frompersia)

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[Guest guest]

Jannis -- what a beautiful answer to Sherry. Your Mom and my MIL sound so

very very much alike in so many ways, don't they? And like Sherry's Mom, too.

I think what you say is exactly why my husband has so much trouble even

being around his Mom. She never ever actually 'saw' him. He's still

invisible.

And the LBD has exacerbated the traits that made her so hurtful in the

past. Amen that there is nothing one can do to change a person like my MIL.

What I do the most is pray for her, and pray that we will do God's will with

respect to her. But it is a lot easier for me to distance my feelings from her

because I'm not her child. My husband has years and years of deep wounds just

festering under the surface. I pray for him, too.

Thanks for such a wonderful response -- even though it was to Sherry, it

comforted me, too.

In Him,

Kate

In a message dated 4/30/2008 7:18:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

janthegoddess2003@... writes:

Sherry ~

I've read your posts since you joined this group, and my heart goes out to

you. I know that all this is so painful for you, because it seems as if you

and your sister never really had a close relationship with your mother, never

really had that mother/child relationship that we all wanted and craved. And

now, in her twilight, you'd like to think that all the loving and caring

things you're doing for her would bring about a change in your mother, but it's

not happening. She's still the woman she was all your life. Nothing you can do

for her will satisfy her, for she is a woman who depended on accumulation of

possessions and admiration for her wealth as her means for satisfaction.

I've just had to accept that my mother is as she had always

been...demanding, pefectionist, critical, judgmental..I've just had to accept

that my mother

is as she had always been...demanding, pefectionist, critical, j

We can't get from our mothers now what we didn't get as children. I know

that the most important thing I got from my mother was my resolve to not repeat

her behaviors with my own children. I stay connected with them, but it is

because I was connected all their lives. I am loving, because I've loved them.

I'm understanding and accepting of them as unique individuals, but that's

because I always saw them that way. They were my priorities!

My mom has shown a disconnect with all of us for all her life. She knows who

we are, but there's no acknowledgment or tenderness or anything toward us.

We are simply people there to do her bidding. We could be home health aides,

we could be hospice, we could be anyone. However, it was because she never

nurtured or fostered strong feelings of family with any of us. Honestly,

growing

up as children, not one of us trusted her. We knew that at any moment we

could be slapped across the room for something we didn't even know we did! We

all walked on eggs, skulking around and trying to evade her wrath. My dad, who

has the primary care responsibility for mother, is still finding that hard to

deal with. For a short period of time, she would tell him she loves him,

would show appreciation for the things he did, would kiss him...now she simply

orders him around and keeps him running, fetching things for her and doing for

her...just as she did all their lives together. We

were all her servants as I was growing up, and we still are.

The least judgmental, most accepting and loving person I ever knew was my

paternal grandmother. That's where I received unconditional love and learned

how to give it to my children, and that's how I can take care of my mother.

Many times I feel as if I'm being called upon to be a better person than I am.

I know your mother's behavior hurts. The one thing I can pray for you is

that you understand and accept that you can't change anything about her...not

the way she was when you were growing up, and not now. Those things she held

dear are those things which she used to define herself. She's losing those

things...the house, the piano, the jewelry...and in this process she's losing

her

entire identity and sense of who she is. That's a frightening thing to go

through even without the confusion of LBD.

The scripture under my name is what gets me through. I just wait upon the

Lord to give me strength...*The scri

Jannis

**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car

listings at AOL Autos.

(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)

[Guest guest]

Sherry ~

I've read your posts since you joined this group, and my heart goes out to

you. I know that all this is so painful for you, because it seems as if you and

your sister never really had a close relationship with your mother, never really

had that mother/child relationship that we all wanted and craved. And now, in

her twilight, you'd like to think that all the loving and caring things you're

doing for her would bring about a change in your mother, but it's not happening.

She's still the woman she was all your life. Nothing you can do for her will

satisfy her, for she is a woman who depended on accumulation of possessions and

admiration for her wealth as her means for satisfaction.

I've just had to accept that my mother is as she had always been...demanding,

pefectionist, critical, judgmental...the LBD didn't change any of her prior

behaviors, but has actually exacerbated them in some ways.

We can't get from our mothers now what we didn't get as children. I know that

the most important thing I got from my mother was my resolve to not repeat her

behaviors with my own children. I stay connected with them, but it is because I

was connected all their lives. I am loving, because I've loved them. I'm

understanding and accepting of them as unique individuals, but that's because I

always saw them that way. They were my priorities!

My mom has shown a disconnect with all of us for all her life. She knows who

we are, but there's no acknowledgment or tenderness or anything toward us. We

are simply people there to do her bidding. We could be home health aides, we

could be hospice, we could be anyone. However, it was because she never

nurtured or fostered strong feelings of family with any of us. Honestly,

growing up as children, not one of us trusted her. We knew that at any moment

we could be slapped across the room for something we didn't even know we did!

We all walked on eggs, skulking around and trying to evade her wrath. My dad,

who has the primary care responsibility for mother, is still finding that hard

to deal with. For a short period of time, she would tell him she loves him,

would show appreciation for the things he did, would kiss him...now she simply

orders him around and keeps him running, fetching things for her and doing for

her...just as she did all their lives together. We

were all her servants as I was growing up, and we still are.

The least judgmental, most accepting and loving person I ever knew was my

paternal grandmother. That's where I received unconditional love and learned

how to give it to my children, and that's how I can take care of my mother.

Many times I feel as if I'm being called upon to be a better person than I am.

I know your mother's behavior hurts. The one thing I can pray for you is

that you understand and accept that you can't change anything about her...not

the way she was when you were growing up, and not now. Those things she held

dear are those things which she used to define herself. She's losing those

things...the house, the piano, the jewelry...and in this process she's losing

her entire identity and sense of who she is. That's a frightening thing to go

through even without the confusion of LBD.

The scripture under my name is what gets me through. I just wait upon the

Lord to give me strength...*smile*

Jannis

" They that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up

with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; they shall walk and not

faint. " -- Isaiah 40:31

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for letting God speak through you, my sister. Reading everything

you wrote felt like a pinball game, with contact after contact after

contact - lol! Joyce and sound like 2 peas in a pod, so alike in to

many ways. On a Christian level I wonder why it's so difficult to have the

same servant's heart in this situation as I do with other people, or why

it's so hard to be a vessel, but it's something I will pray about...thank

you so much for taking the time, you've hit all the nails on their

respective heads, as only someone who's also been-there-done-that can do!

His,

Sherry

www.owly.net

----- Original Message -----

> I am so so sorry to hear what you are going through. I can't know

> exactly what you are experiencing, and how you are feeling, but your Mom

> sounds so much like Joyce, my MOL. I can't imagine how this pulls you

> down, but I do know what it is like to have someone basically reject

> everything about her son, and his children, and act as though there is no

> meaning in her life. The awful thing is, she's right. Joyce doesn't really

> have any meaning in her life. We have tried for over a decade to give her

> some meaning -- to show her love, compassion, generosity, hospitality,

> joy, companionship...and it has not made any difference, not on the

> surface any way. But I will say two things, at least, that I can think

> of about this kind of situation: Number one, despite the fact that Joyce

> consistently says she is dying, her life is worth nothing, and she has

> nothing (all of which is untrue -- but she's been saying it for years any

> way), she has an incredible will to live. All I can say is that

> this kind of thing is actually in her comfort zone -- she's more

> uncomfortable, and made more anxious, by being around happiness than she

> is around complaint and misery. My MOL really really wants to live, to

> have things her way, to control every aspect of her life even if that

> life is, to be honest, basically empty. I don't know if that is how it

> is with , but I know Joyce -- especially when she is acting out her

> despair -- is actually in her element. Number two, how can one give

> meaning to a person like Joyce? We can't.

> But we have saved her from financial ruin, we have kept her as healthy as

> we could, we have been there when she needed us for anything at

> all....and I have kept going in this service to her because I'm not

> really serving her. I'm doing it for Jesus, because He did it for me,

> and I will do it for her because that's what He wants me to do. I love

> her, we all do, but not in the way that one normally thinks of it. I'm

> not fond of her, I don't like to spend

> much time with her (she's too combative and hurtful most of the time), I

> share no interests with her, I could go on and on...but I do love her

> because she's my husband's Mom, and I guess we would do whatever it takes

> to take care of her even if she never realizes it. Yet I do think that

> some times, deep down, and on a special level (she's an extremely

> perceptive woman, almost psychic sometimes!) I think she does understand;

> she just can't help herself -- too many years of bad emotional stuff, too

> many years of compensating and coping with flawed skills, and of course,

> the LBD. I don't think Joyce would ever get out of bed in the morning

> because of anything I could say or do, or my husband -- her only son and

> only child -- could ever say or do, or anything my kids could say or do.

> She gets out of bed because she is the Star of her drama. I don't think

> she wants to give that up, because that is how it has

> always been for her. She's always been alone, always been a victim,

> always been taken advantage of...and it may have been true sometimes from

> some people (isn't that true of any one on the face of this

> planet?)...without this definition of herself, she would actually be

> truly terrified. I can't say that this would be the same for Rene, but I

> can say that keep on keeping on, don't let her take away from you what

> you know is the truth and what is good (that people actually do love each

> other, value each other and bless each other!), and I believe, deep down

> in my very bones, that she will see that and know it, though she may

> never show it. I'll be praying from . I know God hears, and have

> faith that He will answer. He always answers!

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sharon, I know you are right. Sometimes we react, and she knows

exactly the right buttons to push to make that happen, and I guess I need to

be better about understanding that and choosing to respond instead of react.

I always appreciate being able to benefit from the shared experience of

others and very much appreciate you giving me that opportunity. My mother

has always excelled at guilt trips, it's how she raised us, by manipulation

and mind games, and it took us many years to learn to have normal

relationships.

I appreciate your note very much, Sharon, and hope that this hospital stay

will result in a better med regimen for her.

His,

Sherry

www.owly.net

----- Original Message -----

> You can only do so much- She is going to lay a huge guilt trip on you

> if you let her. I know she's your Mother and you want to help her. My

> Father who is an alcoholic is a lot like her. You can make sure she

> is in a safe place (you have)Don't let her mess up your life -you

> need to put yourself and your family first.

> It sounds like you and your sister are doing all the right things-

> getting her in a safe place, taking care of her house, trying to sell

> stuff so she will have some money for her needs. That is all you can

> humanly do. You can't change people- unfortunately it doesn't work

> that way.

> Hopefully with the right meds she will settle in a bit better and it

> will be easier.

[Guest guest]

Bless you Jannis, for sharing your wisdom! The last statement of your first

paragraph is one that I think I will read over and over again. There's more

truth in that than I'd have thought of on my own...

I'm also seeing my mom's behaviors exacerbated, and have been for a couple

of years. Now, after reading the phases and other information that have

been provided here, I'm realizing that just because she wasn't diagnosed

until last month, she's been progressing through the earlier phases for at

least 2 years if not 3. I think YES YES YES as I read through, because they

describe her recent behavior and physical changes so well.

Yesterday she called me from the hospital several times. She'd start her

conversations with " Oh my sweet girl, I miss you so much, and I can't TELL

you how I appreciate all you do for me! " Then it would become, " When am I

going to see you again? " and when I'd tell her that I'll see her when she

gets back up north, that she'll be in the hospital downstate for a little

while longer, she'd start to get a little testy. Then, " Where am I going to

go when I get back? " and I'd tell her that she'll be where she was before

she went to the hospital, just 1/2 mile from my house... " Will I see you when

I get back? " " Yes, mom, I come and see you every day while you're there... "

From that it would be, " Can you take me out sometimes, to your house or to

the store or something? " and when I'd say I could, once her meds are helping

her, that's when the meanness started. " If you'd just get me out of here

long enough I could do what I need to do and it will all be over! " " How can

you make me go through this, I just want to die! " " I know what you're

after... " And when I didn't reply, she'd get conciliatory again...grasping

for anything that would make me get her out so she can do herself in. I

know that I won't be able to take her anywhere until she has accepted the

changes in her life (and status)...

Anyway, thanks for your understanding, and your words of wisdom. I'm

reading these posts over and over right now, and even clinging to them. It

sounds like in learning to accept your mom as she is you've found release to

do what you need to do for her and for yourself. That's a gift in itself.

I appreciate your scripture, that is also one of my favorites .

His,

Sherry

www.owly.net

----- Original Message -----

> I've read your posts since you joined this group, and my heart goes out

> to you. I know that all this is so painful for you, because it seems as

> if you and your sister never really had a close relationship with your

> mother, never really had that mother/child relationship that we all wanted

> and craved. And now, in her twilight, you'd like to think that all the

> loving and caring things you're doing for her would bring about a change

> in your mother, but it's not happening. She's still the woman she was all

> your life. Nothing you can do for her will satisfy her, for she is a

> woman who depended on accumulation of possessions and admiration for her

> wealth as her means for satisfaction.

>

> I've just had to accept that my mother is as she had always

> been...demanding, pefectionist, critical, judgmental...the LBD didn't

> change any of her prior behaviors, but has actually exacerbated them in

> some ways.

>

> We can't get from our mothers now what we didn't get as children. I know

> that the most important thing I got from my mother was my resolve to not

> repeat her behaviors with my own children. I stay connected with them,

> but it is because I was connected all their lives. I am loving, because

> I've loved them. I'm understanding and accepting of them as unique

> individuals, but that's because I always saw them that way. They were my

> priorities!

>

> My mom has shown a disconnect with all of us for all her life. She knows

> who we are, but there's no acknowledgment or tenderness or anything toward

> us. We are simply people there to do her bidding. We could be home

> health aides, we could be hospice, we could be anyone. However, it was

> because she never nurtured or fostered strong feelings of family with any

> of us. Honestly, growing up as children, not one of us trusted her. We

> knew that at any moment we could be slapped across the room for something

> we didn't even know we did! We all walked on eggs, skulking around and

> trying to evade her wrath. My dad, who has the primary care

> responsibility for mother, is still finding that hard to deal with. For a

> short period of time, she would tell him she loves him, would show

> appreciation for the things he did, would kiss him...now she simply orders

> him around and keeps him running, fetching things for her and doing for

> her...just as she did all their lives together. We

> were all her servants as I was growing up, and we still are.

>

> The least judgmental, most accepting and loving person I ever knew was my

> paternal grandmother. That's where I received unconditional love and

> learned how to give it to my children, and that's how I can take care of

> my mother. Many times I feel as if I'm being called upon to be a better

> person than I am.

>

> I know your mother's behavior hurts. The one thing I can pray for you

> is that you understand and accept that you can't change anything about

> her...not the way she was when you were growing up, and not now. Those

> things she held dear are those things which she used to define herself.

> She's losing those things...the house, the piano, the jewelry...and in

> this process she's losing her entire identity and sense of who she is.

> That's a frightening thing to go through even without the confusion of

> LBD.

>

> The scripture under my name is what gets me through. I just wait upon

> the Lord to give me strength...*smile*

[Guest guest]

Hi Donna,

Thanks for the welcome!

--Kate

In a message dated 5/1/2008 1:59:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

twomido@... writes:

Jannis, Kate, Sharon, Sherri and a few more new ones here, I want to say

welcome if I haven't yet. It has been very busy here and I hope it stays that

way, yet it sure makes me glad that we have some " old timers " here who are

pitching in with all kinds of answers.

I just wanted to say, Jannis your statement, (I think it was you) about " we

can't get from our Moms what we didn't get before " sure hit it right on the

head.

I really identified with that. And it has been 5 years since I was a cger.

They still are the same people they always were and it seems to intensify as

the disease progresses. The more I did for Mom, the more she wanted me to do.

Just the way it was.

Hugs and good luck in your journeys.

Donna R

Kate Deddens

" To be Queen within a definite area, deciding sales, banquets,

labors, and holidays; to be Whitely within a certain area, providing toys,

boots, cakes, and books; to be Aristotle within a certain area, teaching

morals,

manners, theology and hygiene; I can understand how this might exhaust the

mind, but I cannot imagine how it could narrow it. How can it be a large career

to tell other people's children about the Rule of Three, and a small career

to tell one's own children about the universe? How can it be broad to be the

same thing to everyone and narrow to be everything to someone? No, a woman's

function is laborious, but because it is gigantic, not because it is minute. "

-G.K. Chesterton, What's Wrong with the World

" The peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your

hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. " --Phil. 4:7

" When peace, like a river, attendeth my way, when sorrows like sea billows

roll; whatever my lot, thou hast taught me to say,

'It is well, it is well with my soul'. "

--Horatio G. Spafford, 1873

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