Re: for Andy/

[Guest guest]

Hi .....you wrote,

I enjoy your posts,

*****That places you in a very, very small minority. :-)))

they make me think.

*****Uh-oh! Storm clouds brewing ahead! Hahaha!!!

Actually, the intellectual understanding often precedes The Genuine

Understanding, so thinking does have its place.

Would be so gracious to share your spiritual (not sure

that the word works for me) training with me.

*****Me too. I'm not exactly clear what is " spiritual " since as I see

it, cleaning the toilet bowel, or mugging an old lady, is as

" spiritual " as praying. (Not that I'd advocate mugging, but, as with

everything else in phenomenality, ... it happens.)

You have mentioned non dual at least once in recent posts. Im

interested in seeing where you come from.

*****A zen koan comes to mind:

Hui Neng* asked Huai-jang: " Where do you come from? "

Huai-jang responded: " I come from Mount Su. "

The Patriarch said: " What is it and how does it come? "

Huai-jang said: " Anything I could say would miss the point. "

Cool, huh! " Anything I could say would miss the point. " Sometimes

those zen dudes just knew it was better to shut up and keep mum! LoL

*The Sixth Patriarch of zen, one of the few to awaken without much

previous practice

So, recognizing that any talk of " me " will " miss the point " .... if

memory serves, I

*started zen practice 1983

*1985, moved into and lived in a zen monastery for one year

*after leaving, continued as an " out-patient " :-)) for another 5 years

*when the monastery relocated, joined another one...I still hadn't

learned my lesson....I'm a real sloooow learner :-))))

*eventually, by 1995. began to tire of all the hoopla, the rituals,

the meditating (hours and hours a day)

*hooked up with Toni Packer's Meditative Inquiry for 4 years...what a

relief!

*in 1999 " discovered " nondual teachings via Advaita (not to be

confused with Advaita Vedanta which is a Hindu religion)

*in 2000 was " found " by my guru who generously took me under his wing

*by 2004, there was no need for questions any longer...game, set, match

The irony is that with all those years of zen training (including

working directly under a zen master!!), nothing, not a whit, sparked.

I wasn't even aware that zen is, at its foundation, a nondual

teaching. Well.....no one ever said I was one of the sharpest knives

in the drawer.

And yet, zen IS a nondual teaching of the most primary mode.

Consider, from the Faith In Mind Sutra, written by the third zen

patriarch these 3 stanzas:

The Great Way is not difficult

for those who have no preferences.

When love and hate are both absent

everything becomes clear and undisguised.

Make the smallest distinction however

and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

If you wish to see the truth

then hold no opinions for or against anything.

To set up what you like against what

you dislike is the disease of the mind.

When the deep meaning of things is not understood

the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.

Do not remain in the dualistic state.

Avoid such pursuits carefully.

If there is even a trace of this and that,

of right and wrong, the Mind-essence will

be lost in the confusion.

Although all dualities come from the One,

do not be attached even to this One.

One thing, all things:

move among and intermingle,

without distinction.

To live in this realization

is to be without anxiety about non-perfection.

To live in this faith is the road to non-duality.

Because the non-dual is one with the trusting mind.

(If you're interested in the complete sutra, email me.)

My own training in 12 years in Tibetian Dharma, the last two with

Thich Nhat Hahn, Eckheart Tolle, Byron and recently

Harding of Headless.org

*****Yeah I know these dudes. Harding is especially insightful.

Much of this most recent learning/un learning has been about moving

into the present moment.

*****Your words remind me of me a while back. So, one asks, (1) who

is it that moves into the present? and (2) is not the present

always.......the present?. Or do you mean keeping your attention ON

the present moment? But even that is impossible since the moment your

attention focus on the present moment, ... it is now a subject for

thought, yes, and there is you " looking " at that thought, and that is

no longer the present moment but in fact a memory.

We are always, always, for a moment, " in the present moment. " It is

not possible to " be " anywhere else. It's just that we can't " see "

ourselves in that moment: there is no subject-object split (nondual)

in the present moment (a time span of duration so brief as to be

unmeasurable).

For example, a mugger jumps out of a darkened alley and there is

terror, sheer, heart-stopping terror. " You " are not there at that

moment. All there is, is terror. A moment later, there is the

thought, " I was terrified. " That moment is when " you " come

back in. But that is not " in the moment " of terror. It is a

looking-back, via thought. You like Buddhism I guess. Check out the

Diamond Sutra which points out that the mind of the past is

unknowable; the mind of the future is unknowable. AND the mind of the

present is also unknowable.

Cheers.