New and Need Help

April 8, 2002

>>We started off with 1 cap each of ZP and Pep. He was

extremely hyper and emotional while at this dose. After 4 wks, we

backed off and he is now at 1/2 cap each. We have seen language

improvement but his hyperactivity and particularly his emotional state

have become a real problem. The note from his teacher today stated

" has become quite emotional...very excessive in his hugging and

touching his friends...when asked to stop he gets upset and puts

himself in time-out...group speech is having to be rearranged due to

his disruptiveness " .

This can be the Pep, consider the AFP Pep

It can also be phenols, consider removing high phenols, including the

chocolate, or trying No-Fenol enzyme

http://www.autismchannel.net/dana/phenol.htm

One of my kids is ADD and low phenol does help, so that is what I

would consider for your child.

Dana

April 9, 2002

>This can be the Pep, consider the AFP Pep

>It can also be phenols, consider removing high phenols, >including the

>chocolate, or trying No-Fenol enzyme

>http://www.autismchannel.net/dana/phenol.htm

>One of my kids is ADD and low phenol does help, so that is >what I

>would consider for your child.

>Dana

Dana- thank you for the reply. I am going to order the new enzymes and give

them a try. I'm thinking I will replace the pep with the AFP for possible

phenol issues and also give the No-Fenol along with the ZP. Or should I forego

the AFP completely since he is dairy free? What dosing would anyone suggest I

start at? Thanks for the help.

Still learning,

April 9, 2002

> Dana- thank you for the reply. I am going to order the new enzymes

and give them a try. I'm thinking I will replace the pep with the AFP

for possible phenol issues and also give the No-Fenol along with the

ZP. Or should I forego the AFP completely since he is dairy free?

Is he gluten free? My kids are gf and mostly cf still, but I still

give Pep because it helps with with other proteins like soy and beef.

>>What dosing would anyone suggest I start at?

If you are gfcf, then I would suggest 1/2 capsule each to start, with

1-2 meals per day, and then work up. I started my kids on 1 capsule

of each, with all meals, because I knew they were not eating ANY

offending foods, but they still had some reaction to the enzymes, I

guess because there was a trace of an offending food still in their

diets, even tho they ate only 4 foods!

Dana

April 10, 2002

Dana - thanks again for the reply. No, is not GF just CF. I spoke with

Mr. Houston over the phone yesterday re: ordering the NO-Fenol. At this point,

we are going to begin with cutting out the pep completely and upping the ZP.

I'm going to try this for about 1 1/2 wks to see where it leads us. Next week

is spring break so I'm hoping for some change for my own sanity. Thanks again,

March 10, 2004

What's in SeaCure? Could there be mercury in there?

Barb

[ ] new and need help

> I've been following the list for a couple weeks and have ordered Andy's

books

> and am anxiously awaiting their arrival! My target child is my five year

old

> son. His diagnoses have included ADHD, ODD, Mood Disorder, Autism,

> Asperger's, Developmental Language Delay, PDD, and Bipolar Disorder. He

has some

> traits from all of these, so giving him a correct diagnosis seems to be

very

> difficult. His symptoms include extreme aggression, hyperactivity,

impulsivity,

> hypersensitive hearing, hypersensitivity to light, hypersensitive smell,

high

> tolerance to pain, defiance, and language delay. We have been on the

Feingold

> Diet for over a year with great success. During the summer, we began

seeing a

> psychiatrist who prescribed risperdal as a temporary measure. It really

> reduced his scary aggression for a while. In September, we began seeing

an

> alternative dr. (a DO) in the Philadelphia area. We went to him in order

to take our

> success with the Feingold Diet further. His practice does the DAN!

protocol

> but also seems to do much more. Beginning late October, he put my son on

the

> following supplements: B-12 injections, EDTA (liquid mixed with juice to

be

> taken orally 1 time per week), Homocysteine Calm, Brain Storm, Nordic

Naturals

> Omega Combination, and Liquid Minerals. In mid-November, he added a new

diet

> in addition to Feingold - gfcf plus lots more. In mid-January, he added

> Inositol. And in mid-February, he added SeaCure. Up until the very

beginning of

> January 2004, he was doing very well. Mid-November through the end of

December

> was quite peaceful with very diminished aggression and hyperactivity. But

> since the beginning of 2004, things have been very bad. He has reverted

back to

> almost what he was before Feingold. We have not had any diet infractions.

He

> is still on risperdal, which I hope to discontinue very soon. His Sept.

2003

> hair analysis showed a very high level of antimony. I was wondering if

any

> of the supplements could have caused our setback. What are your

suggestions?

> Also, does anyone know a really great dr. for detoxification and other

> biomedical treatments in the Philadelphia area? I want to do absolutely

everything

> possible to eliminate my son's problems. Thank you so much for your help!

>

> Jukoski

> Mom to y 1-14-99 and 4-25-01

>

> Click Here: Feingold Association - Feingold diet for ADHD

>

March 11, 2004

I would go back to just being Feingold, remove the seacure and remove

the inositol and see if he returns to the level of progress that he

was at. Some kids do not do well on inositol... don't know much

about seacure but am thinking it is relatively recent and perhaps

take it away and restart it later on when he is stable again. With

GFCF diet, perhaps he is now eating more of something that is an

allergen-type of food for him (ex. more soy, or more rice) and that

isn't setting well with his system. So I would just retrace your

steps backwards and do at least those three things, if I were in your

shoes.

Welcome to the list, btw!

W

> I've been following the list for a couple weeks and have ordered

Andy's books

> and am anxiously awaiting their arrival!

March 11, 2004

It sounds like the inositol addition or something that came

after adding it might need elimination...

[ ] new and need help

> I've been following the list for a couple weeks and have ordered Andy's

books

> and am anxiously awaiting their arrival! My target child is my five year

old

> son. His diagnoses have included ADHD, ODD, Mood Disorder, Autism,

> Asperger's, Developmental Language Delay, PDD, and Bipolar Disorder. He

has some

> traits from all of these, so giving him a correct diagnosis seems to be

very

> difficult. His symptoms include extreme aggression, hyperactivity,

impulsivity,

> hypersensitive hearing, hypersensitivity to light, hypersensitive smell,

high

> tolerance to pain, defiance, and language delay. We have been on the

Feingold

> Diet for over a year with great success. During the summer, we began

seeing a

> psychiatrist who prescribed risperdal as a temporary measure. It really

> reduced his scary aggression for a while. In September, we began seeing

an

> alternative dr. (a DO) in the Philadelphia area. We went to him in order

to take our

> success with the Feingold Diet further. His practice does the DAN!

protocol

> but also seems to do much more. Beginning late October, he put my son on

the

> following supplements: B-12 injections, EDTA (liquid mixed with juice to

be

> taken orally 1 time per week), Homocysteine Calm, Brain Storm, Nordic

Naturals

> Omega Combination, and Liquid Minerals. In mid-November, he added a new

diet

> in addition to Feingold - gfcf plus lots more. In mid-January, he added

> Inositol. And in mid-February, he added SeaCure. Up until the very

beginning of

> January 2004, he was doing very well. Mid-November through the end of

December

> was quite peaceful with very diminished aggression and hyperactivity. But

> since the beginning of 2004, things have been very bad. He has reverted

back to

> almost what he was before Feingold. We have not had any diet infractions.

He

> is still on risperdal, which I hope to discontinue very soon. His Sept.

2003

> hair analysis showed a very high level of antimony. I was wondering if

any

> of the supplements could have caused our setback. What are your

suggestions?

> Also, does anyone know a really great dr. for detoxification and other

> biomedical treatments in the Philadelphia area? I want to do absolutely

everything

> possible to eliminate my son's problems. Thank you so much for your help!

>

> Jukoski

> Mom to y 1-14-99 and 4-25-01

>

> Click Here: Feingold Association - Feingold diet for ADHD

>

March 11, 2004

>>We have been on the Feingold

> Diet for over a year with great success.

Consider other phenol foods. Here is my info

http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm

You can either remove the other high phenol foods, or use HNI No-

Fenol enzyme

http://www.houstonni.com/

> following supplements: B-12 injections,

One of my kids would have had MAJOR problems with injections. I use

oral B12 for him, and if I give him more than 200 mcg per day, he

will have MAJOR problems. Most of the injections are over 1000 mcg.

Are you using folic/folinic acid with the injections? That helps

many kids.

Nordic Naturals

> Omega Combination,

We have problems with EFAs here.

>>In mid-January, he added

> Inositol. And in mid-February, he added SeaCure. Up until the

very beginning of

> January 2004, he was doing very well.

Since the problems began here, I would remove those two newly-added

items.

> hair analysis showed a very high level of antimony.

Consider removing sources of current exposure, scroll down here to

the antimony section

http://www.danasview.net/metals.htm

Dana

June 11, 2005

,

Congrats on deciding to take this step. Many people on this list have gone

ahead of you and can help answer questions, etc. Just think--maybe you

won't run into the gut issues because your son had the head start on priming

him for a while! We were GFCF for two years before we started chelating and

I think that made our experience much easier! My son's gut was not perfect,

by any means, but a lot better than it might have been.

Much luck and prayers to you and your family!!!

Barb

[ ] New and need help

> Hi,

>

> I have a 4 1/2 year old son with Autism, diagnosed at 23 months. We

> have

> been doing biomedical treatments for 2 years, including a year on the

> gfcf

> diet, and over the last year, we have taken him to Pfeiffer. We are

> working on

> that zinc/copper imbalance, etc.

>

> I have never really addressed mercury or chelation during our two

> year

> journey, until I went to the Autism One Conference in Chicago. There,

> I had

> red flags flying all over the place. My husband and I are both

> dentists. Need I

> say more?? (For the record, I have not placed an amalgam filling in

> nearly 10

> years!) Mercury, obviously is an issue. It has to be.

>

> So, after seeing Dr. Bradstreet (whose wife is also a dentist) and

> Dr. Buttar, I

> knew what was next in line for my son. I need to chelate.

>

> I have to admit, the TD-DMPS seems very appealing to me. Pfeiffer

> does not

> seem to want to go that route. I have a local Doctor who will

> prescribe it. I just

> want to make sure I am doing the right thing. I really could use some

> advice. I

> wanted to tackle this over the summer-- it seems like the best time

> to do

> something so major. I feel like I have been priming him for the last

> 2 years for

> this. Nystatin, digestive enzymes, and a costumized vitamin and

> mineral

> regimen have been in place for 6 months now, plus CLO, probiotics,

> TMG with

> Folinic acid, Magnesium sulfate cream, transdermal zinc and

> Glutathione. He

> also gets B12 injections every other day.

>

> I would graciously accept any and all advice.

>

> Thanks,

>

> =======================================================

>

September 5, 2005

Hi Ricky

Sorry to hear of your recent operation. I have had 2 and it is not pleasant.

However, I am surprised in the 21st Century that no one gave you blood tests

for hormonal problems? May I suggest you contact your hospital consultant

and GP and ask for copies opf blood tests taken in making their diagnosis

and prior / during your hospital surgery/treatment

The other guys will discuss US medics and Costs - I am UK based. Also you

will find a full list of tests needed for an investigation of endocrine

illness. Again I wish to support your view that you may very well have an

endocrine illness and that you need a top consultant: That should not be

difficult in NJ I hope.

Having read your email I note your abdominal fat and suggest you also be

tested forr Syndrome X. We have posted recent messages here and you will

find much on the Internet. You will need to add Fasting Glucose, Fasting

Lipids (full range best) plus Fasting Cholesterol plus Insulin for an idea

of the possible problem.

I look forwrad to hearing some other exchanges and your blood tests results

which are needed for any intelligent discussion. However, your symptoms

already give a pattern and trend for you to seek help here.

Have a good day!

new and need help

> Hi all

>

> I had the Gynecomastia and i had surgery a month back. I saw on one

> of the forum that gyne is one of the symptoms of the hormone

> imbalance, and when i studied these stuff on the net, i found that i

> have some hormone imbalance, my symptoms are

> (1) Erectile Dysfunction

> (2) Premature ejaculation

> (3) Gynecomastia

> (4) Not at all muscular body

> (5) Too much fat on the stomach

> (6) Very small testicle

> (7) Dieting and exercise are not able to change my body fat.

>

> I am looking for a good endocrinologist who can help me and expert

> in the reproductive endo and hypogonadism. Does any one know a good

> one in the NJ?

> How much the treatment will cost, like the lab fees and the medicine?

>

> Ricky

>

September 7, 2005

Hi Ricky,

More likely than not, the best doc you will find will not be an endocrinologist.

Most are

simply not good at treating hypogonadism. Your doc will probably

recommend an endocrinologist, but take the time to find someone who actually

treats

hypogonadism. Take a peak at " Finding a male hormone doctor " in the files

section here.

Not sure about test costs. Do get a full panel of male hormone tests. They'll

save you a lot

of wasted time and money in the long run.

The brand-name prescription gels and patches are furiously expensive.

Fortunately there

are compounding pharmacies that have medication at reasonable prices. One of the

advantages of finding a doc by back-tracking from a compounding pharmacy is:

they

know how to fill prescriptions through a compounding pharmacy.

I've learned to self-inject testosterone, I guesstimate it costs about

$15-20/month. I'm

also taking an anti-estrogen med, which cut to small doses costs about

$17/month.

Best,

Bruce

> Hi all

>

> I had the Gynecomastia and i had surgery a month back. I saw on one

> of the forum that gyne is one of the symptoms of the hormone

> imbalance, and when i studied these stuff on the net, i found that i

> have some hormone imbalance, my symptoms are

> (1) Erectile Dysfunction

> (2) Premature ejaculation

> (3) Gynecomastia

> (4) Not at all muscular body

> (5) Too much fat on the stomach

> (6) Very small testicle

> (7) Dieting and exercise are not able to change my body fat.

>

> I am looking for a good endocrinologist who can help me and expert

> in the reproductive endo and hypogonadism. Does any one know a good

> one in the NJ?

> How much the treatment will cost, like the lab fees and the medicine?

>

> Ricky

May 13, 2007

Hi,

This is an uphill battle to find a competent endocrinologist. I

suggest you send some questions to my doctor, Dr. Gambrell, Augusta,

GA who is world renouned. Check his credentials on the internet and go

to his web site.

http://www.members.aol.com/gambr999/

I have been receiving TRT since 1991 via hormone pellets under the

skin which disolve 24/7 at a constant rate avoiding lots of other

problems and no patient involvement till 4 months later for the next

visit. Very few doctors provide hormone pellets at the right dosage.

You need to read all the books and ignore some of them as they are

wrong. and Noble sells " The Testosterone Syndrom " 14.95 by Dr.

Eugene Shippen to allow you to get rid of dud doctors when you know

they don't know their business.

The best for your need is a reproductive endocrinologist that helps

couples with fertility problems and may already be treating men for

andropause. These doctors frequently care for men with developmental

problems.

Good luck.

ernestnolan

>

> My name is (30) and my DH (JIm, 36) was diagnosed with low

> testosterone about 3-4 years ago (his original testosterone level was

> around 200). He was in androgel for several years (5% was the dose I

> believe) and late in 2006 his testosterone numbers were falling. THe

> Dr increased his androgel (5% times 2 on certain days of the week)

> and it didn't work. In a quest for an answer my husband decided to

> go to an enodcrinologist. His numbers in with the androgel were

> around 600 at the time and the Dr wanted him to go off of it to see

> what happened. We found that the reason the numbers were " falling "

> was that the lab work was being done in the afternoon. The endo took

> the hormone levels at the right time (after I did some research and

> insisted that the blood should be drawn before 9 am).

>

> He just got back his recent test results, and his testosterone was

> 206 (which I know is low). His LH was 2.7 and his FSH was 2.2. He

> had an estrodiol taken back in Jan, I am unsure what the numbers

> where at that time. THe nurse from the Dr office should call back

> soon with the numbers that we need.

>

> I am doing research so that my husband will not be brainwashed that

> he has a condition that he does not have and if he is in andropause

> we want all the info we need(I was brainwashed about a year ago that

> I have PCOS/IR, but actually I am hypothryoid and I believe I may

> have adrenal fatigue). I also want to make sure that his testosterone

> levels are not casued by thyroid, adrenal or any myriad medical

> issues that are assocaited with it.

>

> I am also seeking knowledge. I am unable to find the optimum FSH and

> LH ratio for men and what is considered " high or low " . WE are also

> planning to TTC baby #2 in the near future and I want to head off any

> fertility issues before we start TTC (if possible).

>

> I also want to point out that I have very little trust for the

> medical profession (for various reasons, I will tell you if you wnat

> to know) and WE want the knowledge that Drs tend to believe that we

> are unable to process on our own.

>

> Thanks

>

May 13, 2007

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. My Husband (from what I understand) has

secondary hypogonadism, so it isn't a developmental issue. He

has " normal " testes and the lot. We are perplexed, he has sufficant

body (well more than the " average " man), has lost some muscle mass

since he stopped the androgel nad has developed soem breast tissue,he

is very fatigued and we got pg with our DS VERY easily so I don't

think we are in the market for a fertilty endo at this point. I

have " seen " a repoductive endo and she was the one who misdiagnosed

me with PCOS and overtreated my thyroid issue to begin with (I knew

more about the female reproductive system and how the female body

responds to bfing than she did). We, at this point, don't have a

fertilty problem I want my husband to be in the best possible

hormonal shape when we do TTC baby #2, we haven't started trying YET.

Does anyone " know " the optimum LH and FSH for men??? Is there an

optimum ratio (women on CD 3 " should " have a 1:1 FSH:LH ratio).

We will definately take a look at the book and look into Dr Gambra.

Thanks again

> >

> > My name is (30) and my DH (JIm, 36) was diagnosed with low

> > testosterone about 3-4 years ago (his original testosterone level

was

> > around 200). He was in androgel for several years (5% was the

dose I

> > believe) and late in 2006 his testosterone numbers were falling.

THe

> > Dr increased his androgel (5% times 2 on certain days of the

week)

> > and it didn't work. In a quest for an answer my husband decided

to

> > go to an enodcrinologist. His numbers in with the androgel were

> > around 600 at the time and the Dr wanted him to go off of it to

see

> > what happened. We found that the reason the numbers

were " falling "

> > was that the lab work was being done in the afternoon. The endo

took

> > the hormone levels at the right time (after I did some research

and

> > insisted that the blood should be drawn before 9 am).

> >

> > He just got back his recent test results, and his testosterone

was

> > 206 (which I know is low). His LH was 2.7 and his FSH was 2.2.

He

> > had an estrodiol taken back in Jan, I am unsure what the numbers

> > where at that time. THe nurse from the Dr office should call

back

> > soon with the numbers that we need.

> >

> > I am doing research so that my husband will not be brainwashed

that

> > he has a condition that he does not have and if he is in

andropause

> > we want all the info we need(I was brainwashed about a year ago

that

> > I have PCOS/IR, but actually I am hypothryoid and I believe I may

> > have adrenal fatigue). I also want to make sure that his

testosterone

> > levels are not casued by thyroid, adrenal or any myriad medical

> > issues that are assocaited with it.

> >

> > I am also seeking knowledge. I am unable to find the optimum FSH

and

> > LH ratio for men and what is considered " high or low " . WE are

also

> > planning to TTC baby #2 in the near future and I want to head off

any

> > fertility issues before we start TTC (if possible).

> >

> > I also want to point out that I have very little trust for the

> > medical profession (for various reasons, I will tell you if you

wnat

> > to know) and WE want the knowledge that Drs tend to believe that

we

> > are unable to process on our own.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

>

May 14, 2007

Research side effects of long term use of testosterone HRT.

Research Estradiol E2.

Research use of HCG, not HGH, to reverse some side effects of HRT.

Go to allthingsmale.com

>

> My name is (30) and my DH (JIm, 36) was diagnosed with low

> testosterone about 3-4 years ago (his original testosterone level

was

> around 200). He was in androgel for several years (5% was the dose

I

> believe) and late in 2006 his testosterone numbers were falling.

THe

> Dr increased his androgel (5% times 2 on certain days of the week)

> and it didn't work. In a quest for an answer my husband decided to

> go to an enodcrinologist. His numbers in with the androgel were

> around 600 at the time and the Dr wanted him to go off of it to see

> what happened. We found that the reason the numbers were " falling "

> was that the lab work was being done in the afternoon. The endo

took

> the hormone levels at the right time (after I did some research and

> insisted that the blood should be drawn before 9 am).

>

> He just got back his recent test results, and his testosterone was

> 206 (which I know is low). His LH was 2.7 and his FSH was 2.2. He

> had an estrodiol taken back in Jan, I am unsure what the numbers

> where at that time. THe nurse from the Dr office should call back

> soon with the numbers that we need.

>

> I am doing research so that my husband will not be brainwashed that

> he has a condition that he does not have and if he is in andropause

> we want all the info we need(I was brainwashed about a year ago

that

> I have PCOS/IR, but actually I am hypothryoid and I believe I may

> have adrenal fatigue). I also want to make sure that his

testosterone

> levels are not casued by thyroid, adrenal or any myriad medical

> issues that are assocaited with it.

>

> I am also seeking knowledge. I am unable to find the optimum FSH

and

> LH ratio for men and what is considered " high or low " . WE are also

> planning to TTC baby #2 in the near future and I want to head off

any

> fertility issues before we start TTC (if possible).

>

> I also want to point out that I have very little trust for the

> medical profession (for various reasons, I will tell you if you

wnat

> to know) and WE want the knowledge that Drs tend to believe that we

> are unable to process on our own.

>

> Thanks

>

May 14, 2007

We have found after a time Androgel stops working ourr skin gets

think and the gel does not get through the skin. Also any Dr. that

ups the dose to 2 every other day dose not know what he is doing.

Then to send you to see an Endo your getting in deeper. Endo's are

not good Dr.'s for low testosterone.

I hate to tell you this but once your husband goes on TRT taking him

of to do base line testing all they find out is how sick they made

him. I have been down this road 7 times in the last 24 yrs. You

just can't get the body to go back to work like it did before he went

on TRT. He can be off it for a yr. and still not go back to were he

was the day before he started on T meds. When you give a man

testosterone the brain shuts down his production of Testosterone.

And just stopping the med we don't just go back to where we were.

Most good Dr.'s will tell you this and if his sperm is good tell him

to have some frozen to be on the safe side.

This does not mean you can't get pregnant now that he is off TRT and

if he can still go through life now is the time to try and get

pregnant so he can go back on TRT.

Do you have the first tests the Dr. ran on him. Do you know if 4 yrs.

ago the Dr. did enough tests to tell why his levels were so low. If

not it's going to take a dam good Dr. to find this out.

You said you felt his levels were going down on androgel because they

were taking his blood in the afternoon and it's best to do the test

first thing in the morning. This is only true when he is first

tested before going on TRT. It is best to test when on gels 4 to 6

hrs after the gel is on. And to be sure no gel is on the spot where

the blood is being taken. So you don't get gel on the needle and

spike the test.

After being off TRT his LH and FSH numbers are low and this is what

happens do to being on TRT. Did the Dr. ever test his LH and FSH on

the gels this could be how high the LH and FSH was on the gels. Dam

low.

I have come across a lot of men that had low testosterone and they

were not Primary or Secondary. One had a low grade infection and

when they fixed this his testosterone levels come back up.

If you think he has Adrenal Fatigue with a low Thyroid this can being

down his T levels. If he has high Estradiol levels this will make a

mess of his levels and Dr.'s that don't test this will think he is

Secondary.

When Estradiol levels are high in a man the brain can't tell the

difference. The cell fill up with Estradiol and the brain thinks

it's testosterone so it stops sending the LH and FSH messages to the

testis to make more T. When he treats the high Estradol and brings

the levels back down to between 10 to 30 pg/ml the brain now sees his

T levels are low and sends the LH and FSH to the Testis.

So you see there is a lot to this. My best advice to you is to get

more testing done. For his Cortisol levels to tell if he has Adrenal

Fatigue do a 4 times in a day Saliva test. At this site for Thyroid

Problems they have info on testing this.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/recommended-labwork/

He would need these tests.

* TSH

* Free T4 and Free T3 (note the word " free " )

* Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)

* Ferritin (and do stress FERRITIN, not just RBC)

* Adrenals Cortisol levels (but we strongly recommend saliva tests,

not the one time blood test your doctor will do. See below, because

you don't need a prescription)

* B-12, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA

This is the lab we use a lot.

1) LAB WORK from Canary Club for special prices. The saliva test is

for a full spectrum: thyroid (TSH, free T3, free T4), adrenals

(cortisol and DHEA), estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. You can

choose from two lab facilities–Diagnos Tech (saliva test for $144.50)

or ZRT (saliva plus blood spot test for $199).

thecanaryclub.org/

When your at this site read it it may even help you with your Thyroid

problems.

I am at the Men's Thyroid Forum there.

Don't waste you time trying to find what are optimum FSH and LH

levels he may never see this happen and LH is very hard to measure it

fires on and off fast.

This best site for testing and treating this is at

www.allthingsmale.com Go there and Read TRT: A Recipe for Success and

the HCG Update. I came across this 2 yrs. ago and it saved my

life. I have been told I was Primary for over 23 yrs after reading

Dr. 's site and going on shots and adding HCG I found out I am

Secondary do to a head injury some 25 yrs ago. I am Hypopituitary

and today I now treat my low testosterone levels and DHEA, Cortisol,

Thryoid, hypoaldosteronism and High Estradiol levels.

So if you do find your husband is Secondary you need to check all of

this to be sure he is OK. Secondary can be caused by many things one

is a tumor so he would need an MRI on his Pituitary to rule this out.

At the links section at are home page on the left and the files

section it's both full of links that will help you to learn about

this. And the link I gave you to STTM it's full of info.

If you need to find a good Dr. Let me know what state you live in and

maybe we can luck out and find one.

Phil

>

> My name is (30) and my DH (JIm, 36) was diagnosed with low

> testosterone about 3-4 years ago (his original testosterone level

was

> around 200). He was in androgel for several years (5% was the dose

I

> believe) and late in 2006 his testosterone numbers were falling.

THe

> Dr increased his androgel (5% times 2 on certain days of the week)

> and it didn't work. In a quest for an answer my husband decided to

> go to an enodcrinologist. His numbers in with the androgel were

> around 600 at the time and the Dr wanted him to go off of it to see

> what happened. We found that the reason the numbers were " falling "

> was that the lab work was being done in the afternoon. The endo

took

> the hormone levels at the right time (after I did some research and

> insisted that the blood should be drawn before 9 am).

>

> He just got back his recent test results, and his testosterone was

> 206 (which I know is low). His LH was 2.7 and his FSH was 2.2. He

> had an estrodiol taken back in Jan, I am unsure what the numbers

> where at that time. THe nurse from the Dr office should call back

> soon with the numbers that we need.

>

> I am doing research so that my husband will not be brainwashed that

> he has a condition that he does not have and if he is in andropause

> we want all the info we need(I was brainwashed about a year ago

that

> I have PCOS/IR, but actually I am hypothryoid and I believe I may

> have adrenal fatigue). I also want to make sure that his

testosterone

> levels are not casued by thyroid, adrenal or any myriad medical

> issues that are assocaited with it.

>

> I am also seeking knowledge. I am unable to find the optimum FSH

and

> LH ratio for men and what is considered " high or low " . WE are also

> planning to TTC baby #2 in the near future and I want to head off

any

> fertility issues before we start TTC (if possible).

>

> I also want to point out that I have very little trust for the

> medical profession (for various reasons, I will tell you if you

wnat

> to know) and WE want the knowledge that Drs tend to believe that we

> are unable to process on our own.

>

> Thanks

>

May 14, 2007

On Sun, 13 May 2007 23:49:59 -0000, you wrote:

>My name is (30) and my DH (JIm, 36) was diagnosed with low

>testosterone about 3-4 years ago (his original testosterone level was

>around 200). He was in androgel for several years (5% was the dose I

>believe) and late in 2006 his testosterone numbers were falling. THe

>Dr increased his androgel (5% times 2 on certain days of the week)

>and it didn't work. In a quest for an answer my husband decided to

>go to an enodcrinologist. His numbers in with the androgel were

>around 600 at the time and the Dr wanted him to go off of it to see

>what happened. We found that the reason the numbers were " falling "

>was that the lab work was being done in the afternoon. The endo took

>the hormone levels at the right time (after I did some research and

>insisted that the blood should be drawn before 9 am).

>

>He just got back his recent test results, and his testosterone was

>206 (which I know is low). His LH was 2.7 and his FSH was 2.2. He

>had an estrodiol taken back in Jan, I am unsure what the numbers

>where at that time. THe nurse from the Dr office should call back

>soon with the numbers that we need.

>

>I am doing research so that my husband will not be brainwashed that

>he has a condition that he does not have and if he is in andropause

>we want all the info we need(I was brainwashed about a year ago that

>I have PCOS/IR, but actually I am hypothryoid and I believe I may

>have adrenal fatigue). I also want to make sure that his testosterone

>levels are not casued by thyroid, adrenal or any myriad medical

>issues that are assocaited with it.

Things to read:

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

http://www.asipcpe.com/files/articlefiles/pdf/ASP_3_4p136_141.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Testosterone-Syndrome-Eugene-Shippen/dp/087131858X/ref=pd_\

bbs_sr_1/002-9547703-0533654?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1179158775 & sr=8-1

>

>I am also seeking knowledge. I am unable to find the optimum FSH and

>LH ratio for men and what is considered " high or low " . WE are also

>planning to TTC baby #2 in the near future and I want to head off any

>fertility issues before we start TTC (if possible).

LH and FSH numbers will be irrelevant one he has started androgel.

Receiving testosterone will drop the levels. How long had he quit

before the tests?

If he is secondary (his testicles work to produce T but aren;t getting

the message, you can likely still have kids by him changing from T to

HCG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chorionic_gonadotropin

When you want children

>I also want to point out that I have very little trust for the

>medical profession (for various reasons, I will tell you if you wnat

>to know) and WE want the knowledge that Drs tend to believe that we

>are unable to process on our own.

Generally we find urologists far more educated and understanding on

these issues. Endocrinologists by and large to very little on these

issues with their practices being dominated by diabetes, womens

hormonal issues, and thyroid issues taking over 95% of their time.

You also need to learn about E2 - estradiol. Testosterone is converted

to E2 by an enzyme called aromotase. (This is more abundant in fat

cells - so weight can be important). If T levels from therapy get too

high they spill over into E2 conversion. E2 outcompetes T for many

sites in the body and steals the positive impacts of T away.

he should shoot for E2 levels of between 20 and about 35.

_______________________

" Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. "

-- lin

May 14, 2007

Hey thanks....

I recently found stopthemadness myself and have been reading a lot on

there. We have kicked around the idea of getting the saliva tests

done (for both of us).

I never understood WHY the endo took him off the TRT, it seemed

pretty assanine to me. The Dr told him that he wanted to see " if the

body will make testoterone on it's own " . I knew that was so wrong

(and you just confirmed it for me), I found that the Dr was totally

clueless, and my poor husband is now at a loss.

Also, what is also bothering me about this endo is that he is

obsessed with ONE abnormal fasting glucose level (107), when all the

other levels have been well below 100. He swears up and down my

hubbie is diabetic, but won't do a fasting insulin or another fasting

glucose UNLESS he does a 2 hour GTT. I do know that he keeps taking

his TSH and T4 levels (hell I can't even get my endo to do more than

a TSH, she also tells me that my hyper symptoms are in my head, I am

being overmedicated for hypoT) and my DH is in my opinion either

having an adrenal problem or a thryoid problem. HE has had a

cortisol test done back in Jan/Feb and they " Were normal " but after

being on stopthemaddness, I am learning that the blood test is not

accurate.

I got pg with our first baby while he was on TRT, with only 3 months

of trying. I am not sure if they did a FSH LH before they took him

off the TRT, but I will definately find out. It does bother me that

his levels are low, and DH even informed the endo that we will trying

for baby #2 soon. I want my Dh to go back on the TRT, not just so we

can have another baby but for the fact he is not himself.

THe Dr that increased his TRT was his family Dr, and the family Dr

that intially diagnosed him did the same thing. THe only test I knew

that was taken when he was initally diagnosed was the testosterone

levels, which was done (I was wrong before when I said 3-4 years ago)

nearly 6 years ago.

After my issues with my first endo (RE) I went on a quest to find a

DR. After searching I found a list (which I just recently found has

a link to stopthemadness) of Endo's in my area and Dr Victorina was

listed there. I see a Dr in his practice abut my thyroid (yes the

same one that will only do a TSH on me, and tells me everything else

is useless)my DH decided to see him about his testosterone levels. I

an currently looking for a new Dr for me, and Dh has an appointment

with his endo later this month. I have a feeling that my DH will end

up finding another DR also.

We have no idea where to go to get the treatment that he needs, and

it seems like we are fighting an endless battle in finding a DR that

has a clue and will treat us like we are intelligent human beings. I

am frustrated to no end at this point (not just with his endo but

mine too)and we are having a really hard time finding a DR in our

area. We live in Northern Ky about 20 minutes south of Cincinnatti

and about 70 miles north of LExington. WE can't go to LExington

because it is out of area and insurance won't cover it, and we are

unsure if our insurance will cover Dr's in Ohio. Any help you could

give us would be great. WHat kind of Dr should my DH see for his

testosterone issues???

I also have another Q....does anyone take saw palmetto or any other

herbals???? OR know of any other " alternatives " that could help my

DH with his testosteone levels.

Thanks for you help. MUch appreciated.

> >

> > My name is (30) and my DH (JIm, 36) was diagnosed with low

> > testosterone about 3-4 years ago (his original testosterone level

> was

> > around 200). He was in androgel for several years (5% was the

dose

> I

> > believe) and late in 2006 his testosterone numbers were falling.

> THe

> > Dr increased his androgel (5% times 2 on certain days of the

week)

> > and it didn't work. In a quest for an answer my husband decided

to

> > go to an enodcrinologist. His numbers in with the androgel were

> > around 600 at the time and the Dr wanted him to go off of it to

see

> > what happened. We found that the reason the numbers

were " falling "

> > was that the lab work was being done in the afternoon. The endo

> took

> > the hormone levels at the right time (after I did some research

and

> > insisted that the blood should be drawn before 9 am).

> >

> > He just got back his recent test results, and his testosterone

was

> > 206 (which I know is low). His LH was 2.7 and his FSH was 2.2.

He

> > had an estrodiol taken back in Jan, I am unsure what the numbers

> > where at that time. THe nurse from the Dr office should call

back

> > soon with the numbers that we need.

> >

> > I am doing research so that my husband will not be brainwashed

that

> > he has a condition that he does not have and if he is in

andropause

> > we want all the info we need(I was brainwashed about a year ago

> that

> > I have PCOS/IR, but actually I am hypothryoid and I believe I may

> > have adrenal fatigue). I also want to make sure that his

> testosterone

> > levels are not casued by thyroid, adrenal or any myriad medical

> > issues that are assocaited with it.

> >

> > I am also seeking knowledge. I am unable to find the optimum FSH

> and

> > LH ratio for men and what is considered " high or low " . WE are

also

> > planning to TTC baby #2 in the near future and I want to head off

> any

> > fertility issues before we start TTC (if possible).

> >

> > I also want to point out that I have very little trust for the

> > medical profession (for various reasons, I will tell you if you

> wnat

> > to know) and WE want the knowledge that Drs tend to believe that

we

> > are unable to process on our own.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

>

May 14, 2007

Just got his number form his previous tests:

Dec 22nd

TSH 2.71

T4 0.79

Testosterone Serium-612

Testosterone Free 21.9

FSH- .3 (OMG)

LH .3 (OMG)

Prolactin-5.7

Jan 24th

Testoterone Serium 215

IGF-140

Cotisol-14.6

HEmo A1C 5.7

April 25th

Total T-206

FSH-2.2

LH 2.7

No DHEA, Adrenal functions or E2 were drawn (the nurse seemed pretty

surpised that no E2 was drawn). So it seems that the TRT was

probably causing a problem with the FSH and LH, and the numbers have

improved but yet his T levels are so low but the FSH and LH have

rebounded some......

Any thoughts??????

May 14, 2007

Any DO Dr. that is in anti-ageing would be a good Dr. go to the files section

and read Finding a Male Hormone Dr. then start calling and ask a lot of

Questions. Also at STTM is a link to Armours site of Dr.'s that use Armour call

any that are DO's and you will find a Dr. for both of you.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/how-to-find-a-good-doc/

To get you husband back on TRT go the the last Dr. before the Endo and if you

liked the gels get him back on Androgel but this time do 10 grams put 5 grams on

each side. Test in 6 weeks if his levels are not good have the Dr. Add in HCG

do 250 IU's every 3 days. Or Better yet see if his old Dr. the one that had him

on the gels will work with Dr. over the phone this way you husband will get

the right tests and the best treatment and his Dr. in a short time will learn

how to treat him.

www.allthingsmale.com.

peppercorn12411 <peppercorn12411@...> wrote: