Re: Re: Stages of Mycotoxicosis

[Guest guest]

Dr Thrasher,

I'd like to add one item for the benefit of the group to your

fantastic response. Just because someone, myself included,

disagrees with a claim of mold or mycotoxins causing your

symptoms, disease, difficulties, etc, doesn't mean we think your

experience is not true.

Speaking for myself, I can wholeheartedly understand, emphathize,

support and believe that you were harmed, while disagreeing with

what caused it.

One illustration I often use is that as a professional about half

the time mold is claimed it is not mold, but something else. When

it is mold about a third of the time it is a combination of mold

and other types of exposures.

Notice, I did not dispute that something real happened to you. We

just don't know yet exactly what it is. If your claim of harm

includes a statement of what specificaly harmed you, you'd better

be prepared to defend that specific claim on its own merits. The

easiest to refute is an emotional plea along the lines of, " If you

love me you won't disagree with me. " The strongest position is the

correct one, so don't give them an easy victory with a plea for

emotional support clothed as a factual one.

If you don't have strong supporting and specific evidence then it

may be better to say something like, " I'm sick and it's connected

to my house. I may not have precisely identified the cause yet,

but I do know precisely that I am sick when I'm in the house (or

office, etc). " That way it is harder for them to dispute the

reality of your being sick and deny you the help you need simply

by disputing what caused it. (Mold can't harm you).

Of course, if it is a legal claim, you will need to present it in

language which the law understands.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

On Fri May 15 11:13:42 CDT 2009, " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. "

<toxicologist1@...> wrote:

> Do not take me wrong. I live by the one statment my major

> professor said to me and fellow students when we were in graduate

> school developing the research for our Ph.D. theses. He said to:

> " If you have thought about it somone else has published on it.

> Go back and search all of the literature and find the original

> statements and ideas and give due credit. " I suggest that one

> read the all 28 pages of the text of the paper by Newberne and

> all of the research published by Forgacs on Stachybotrycosis.

> These individuals were among the early pioneers and give full

> credit to those before them where it is due. I give credit to

> Dr. Croft who published on trichothecenes in humans and illness

> resulting from his observations. I also give full credit to

> others who have contributed to the biological complexity of damp

> indoor spaces, such as Etzle, Dearborn, Brazel,

> Calderon-Garciduenas, Wallace, among many others. I suggest that

> one approach this subject from a historical point of view for a

> better undestanding of the problem. For example, Wallace et al

> of the EPA TEAM program in the early 1980s were the first to show

> that indoor air contains VOCs in greater concentration than

> outdoor air, even in heavily polluted cities such as N.Y. and

> L.A. What does this mean? Humans are responsible for listening

> to those who suggest our homes and buildings become air tight in

> order to conserve on energy. This research showed us that it was

> wrong to make homes and buildings with limited ventilation.

>

> Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

> www.drthrasher.org

> toxicologist1@...

> Off: 916-745-4703

> Cell: 575-937-1150

>

>

> L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> Trauma Specialist

> sandracrawley@...

> 916-745-4703 - Off

> 775-309-3994 - Cell

>

> This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be

> considered privileged and confidential. The forwarding or

> redistribution of this message (and any attachments) without my

> prior written consent is strictly prohibited and may violate

> privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

> served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have

> received this message in error, please reply immediately to

> advise the sender of the miscommunication and then delete the

> message and any copies you have printed. Thank you in advance for

> your compliance.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carl, I have been in the background and silent for sometime now for various

reasons but I happen to read this. You know I respect and believe everything you

say because you know what you do and have proved it. I must say though I am a

little confussed at this statement. Here, I will not say much but will leave

with just that. I am confused.

 

Love ya Carl,

Chris

    

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 Freedom is the emancipation from the arbitrary rule of other men   :Mortimer

Adler

> Do not take me wrong. I live by the one statment my major

> professor said to me and fellow students when we were in graduate

> school developing the research for our Ph.D. theses. He said to:

> " If you have thought about it somone else has published on it.

> Go back and search all of the literature and find the original

> statements and ideas and give due credit. " I suggest that one

> read the all 28 pages of the text of the paper by Newberne and

> all of the research published by Forgacs on Stachybotrycosis.

> These individuals were among the early pioneers and give full

> credit to those before them where it is due. I give credit to

> Dr. Croft who published on trichothecenes in humans and illness

> resulting from his observations. I also give full credit to

> others who have contributed to the biological complexity of damp

> indoor spaces, such as Etzle, Dearborn, Brazel,

> Calderon-Garciduena s, Wallace, among many others. I suggest that

> one approach this subject from a historical point of view for a

> better undestanding of the problem. For example, Wallace et al

> of the EPA TEAM program in the early 1980s were the first to show

> that indoor air contains VOCs in greater concentration than

> outdoor air, even in heavily polluted cities such as N.Y. and

> L.A. What does this mean? Humans are responsible for listening

> to those who suggest our homes and buildings become air tight in

> order to conserve on energy. This research showed us that it was

> wrong to make homes and buildings with limited ventilation.

>

> Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> Toxicologist/ Immunotoxicologi st/Fetaltoxicolo gist

> www.drthrasher. org

> toxicologist1@ msn.com

> Off: 916-745-4703

> Cell: 575-937-1150

>

>

> L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> Trauma Specialist

> sandracrawley@ msn.com

> 916-745-4703 - Off

> 775-309-3994 - Cell

>

> This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be

> considered privileged and confidential. The forwarding or

> redistribution of this message (and any attachments) without my

> prior written consent is strictly prohibited and may violate

> privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

> served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have

> received this message in error, please reply immediately to

> advise the sender of the miscommunication and then delete the

> message and any copies you have printed. Thank you in advance for

> your compliance.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good post. Thanks.

At 11:08 AM 5/16/2009, you wrote:

>brain scans can and do show damage not only to the ofactory tracts

>but also the spinal cords.

I'm very interested in the spinal cord damage info.

Do you have any 'leads' for me where I can read more?

Also, the ofactory tracts. These are two areas I wish

to finish treating.

>Sence the old terms are sicking around wouldn't it be safe to say, I

>have sick building syndrome, (MCS,chronic sinus desease and chronic

>inflamatory disease) caused by exposure the accumalated fifth and

>contamination produced by water damaged buildings.

I had all those as well, but from urine from an animal living in the

attic causing mold. Heavy nutritional supplement support for 5 years

reduced my symptoms, eliminating the FM and CFS. As I have 150% lung

capacity, when it was reduced to just 90%

of a normal male my size, my lung symptoms were not " apparent " to the

doctors. And they ignored my verbal complaints (not written into the

record), preferring their visual judgements (written into the record,

and were 90% incorrect).

I still have MCS and strange smells will swelling my sinus nerve (15

seconds), and I can no longer smell or taste food for about 24-72

hours, average about 36, less if I take massive Vit C, when I

remember, as brain fog comes with the loss of smell.

>and it should be reconised that severe exposures can and do cause

>fungal, bacterial and or toxic memungitis that can result in BBB

>breajdown abd brain swelling and CLOSED HEAD TBI.

I agree. I had brain swelling as evidence by scalp pain. More if

someone ask for the info.

I still have closed head brain injury symptoms.

[Guest guest]

Thanks again for your support and your willing insistence to

always be clear about the information you see. Can you tell me

more specifically what confuses you? Something I wrote, didn't

say, or why I wrote it in the first place?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

>

>

>

> Carl, I have been in the background and silent for sometime now for various

reasons but I happen to read

> this. You know I respect and believe everything you say because you know what

you do and have proved it. I

> must say though I am a little confussed at this statement. Here, I will not

say much but will leave with just

> that. I am confused.

>

> Love ya Carl,

> Chris

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Freedom is the emancipation from the arbitrary rule of other men :Mortimer

Adler

>

>

>

> > Do not take me wrong. I live by the one statment my major

> > professor said to me and fellow students when we were in graduate

> > school developing the research for our Ph.D. theses. He said to:

> > " If you have thought about it somone else has published on it.

> > Go back and search all of the literature and find the original

> > statements and ideas and give due credit. " I suggest that one

> > read the all 28 pages of the text of the paper by Newberne and

> > all of the research published by Forgacs on Stachybotrycosis.

> > These individuals were among the early pioneers and give full

> > credit to those before them where it is due. I give credit to

> > Dr. Croft who published on trichothecenes in humans and illness

> > resulting from his observations. I also give full credit to

> > others who have contributed to the biological complexity of damp

> > indoor spaces, such as Etzle, Dearborn, Brazel,

> > Calderon-Garciduena s, Wallace, among many others. I suggest that

> > one approach this subject from a historical point of view for a

> > better undestanding of the problem. For example, Wallace et al

> > of the EPA TEAM program in the early 1980s were the first to show

> > that indoor air contains VOCs in greater concentration than

> > outdoor air, even in heavily polluted cities such as N.Y. and

> > L.A. What does this mean? Humans are responsible for listening

> > to those who suggest our homes and buildings become air tight in

> > order to conserve on energy. This research showed us that it was

> > wrong to make homes and buildings with limited ventilation.

> >

> > Jack D. Thrasher, Ph.D.

> > Toxicologist/ Immunotoxicologi st/Fetaltoxicolo gist

> > www.drthrasher. org

> > toxicologist1@ msn.com

> > Off: 916-745-4703

> > Cell: 575-937-1150

> >

> >

> > L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

> > Trauma Specialist

> > sandracrawley@ msn.com

> > 916-745-4703 - Off

> > 775-309-3994 - Cell

> >

> > This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be

> > considered privileged and confidential. The forwarding or

> > redistribution of this message (and any attachments) without my

> > prior written consent is strictly prohibited and may violate

> > privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

> > served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have

> > received this message in error, please reply immediately to

> > advise the sender of the miscommunication and then delete the

> > message and any copies you have printed. Thank you in advance for

> > your compliance.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Without going back to read again, it was a response to Dr Thrasher about an

illness not being, or not being solely from a toxic home. You said that there

had to be other contributors etc. That statement alone I cant say I disagree

with but at the same time by my own experience I was not ill before my home. I

cannot think of nor know of any other contributors in my situation.

So with that in mind, I know I trust your knowledge even if it does not make

sense to me but at the same time I cant say that I can agree with that statement

unless I took it out of context. Which may very well be the case. That may

happen when I pop in and out of the board I may have missed something. That is

what I am confused about.

  

   

 Freedom is the emancipation from the arbitrary rule of other men   :Mortimer

Adler

Thanks again for your support and your willing insistence to

always be clear about the information you see. Can you tell me

more specifically what confuses you? Something I wrote, didn't

say, or why I wrote it in the first place?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

I was trying to reinforce Dr Thrasher's post that when we get sick

it may very well be mold but it isn't always mold. We each have to

figure out what is hurting us. It does no good to focus exclusively

on mold when it isn't mold. For most on this group it has been,

and continues to be, mold exposure. But many have also

discovered that other types of exposure can also be present. In

addition, mold is caused by dampness and much more than mold

can amplify in those environments.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

>

>

>

> Without going back to read again, it was a response to Dr Thrasher about an

illness not being, or not being

> solely from a toxic home. You said that there had to be other contributors

etc. That statement alone I cant say

> I disagree with but at the same time by my own experience I was not ill before

my home. I cannot think of

> nor know of any other contributors in my situation.

> So with that in mind, I know I trust your knowledge even if it does not make

sense to me but at the same time

> I cant say that I can agree with that statement unless I took it out of

context. Which may very well be the

> case. That may happen when I pop in and out of the board I may have missed

something. That is what I am

> confused about.

>

>

> Freedom is the emancipation from the arbitrary rule of other men :Mortimer

Adler

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks again for your support and your willing insistence to

> always be clear about the information you see. Can you tell me

> more specifically what confuses you? Something I wrote, didn't

> say, or why I wrote it in the first place?

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carl, Thanks for explaining that. I did indeed miss understand. I do indeed

agree with you of course. Especially with that in mind, I know Dr. Thrasher has

mentioned several other things it could be when someone falls ill and does not

know exactly what it might be.  This is of course why we need people like you

and the doctors to help weed those things out. I for one can say the guessing

game is easy to fall into but a severe waste of time and money. As you know,

when it happened to me, I thought mold was what grew on cheese. It took some

convincing to get me to understand what had happened. I will say if I did know

mold could make you sick that might have been worse because every sniffle would

send me into an anxiety issue.

I appreciate you clearing up my own miss-understanding. I hope you know I was

not questioning your post, I was just confused at what I thought I had learned.

 

Chris...

PS. Wow, only one word was miss-spelled in that one. I'm impressed with myself.

Ha ha

    

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 Freedom is the emancipation from the arbitrary rule of other men   :Mortimer

Adler

>

>

>

> Thanks again for your support and your willing insistence to

> always be clear about the information you see. Can you tell me

> more specifically what confuses you? Something I wrote, didn't

> say, or why I wrote it in the first place?

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

>