Re: Important Licensure Concerns

[Guest guest]

I have gone through the process with OP board and think did a very noble thing by informing us all of his findings. I think as far as finding jobs out there, its difficult and the economy has not been friendly to many of us just finishing school seeking employment. My advice is that you should accept whatever position you can that affords you the quality of life you want. You need to decide whether having the " LCAT " is something you want to pursue in this state. I have found that I am content calling myself a Therapeutic Arts Counselor and working towards my ATR at the position I am at. I know I am helping clients and utilizing my training from NYU. I have found many other professional utilizing their training without

employing their rightfully earned title as a therapist and you need to

find out or decide if you too want to do this until the law changes.Until this does happen, I am sending in my $10 to NYCCAT and hoping they will work on our behalf to help change NY business law. Otherwise, my advice is hold off before sending in your $400 to the OP off until you know you both want to stay at your position for two years and that you are sure that your position as well as setting is appropriate to gain a license or a permit.

Best of Luck Boraz, MA.

Ann and others,I am by no means an authority on the licensure process -- having been one of the lucky ones grandparented into licensure a few years ago. It is my understanding, as Lucy stated, that the actual title of the position itself is not as important as the setting and the supervision. The supervision is a key piece, make sure that you have an on-site supervisor that qualifies or make the necessary arrangements for off-site supervision.

I am sure that there are others on this list who have more recent exprience with this same situation and could probably speak more clearly to your question.Such a process, wading through the licensure process and " consequences. "

Re: Important Licensure Concerns

Ann

Hi there. I'm sure will add his own thoughts but as I understand it you should be fine as long as the site itself is licensed itself. There are a whole host of licensed programs in NY State that you can identify at the following link - http://www.omh. state.ny. us/omhweb/ licensing/ bic/locatebic1. asp

As long as your place employment is listed here you should be fine. Also, you might want to look at this blurb from the NYSED that fellow LCAT, Drena Fagen forwarded to me.

From the Office of Professions:

" Setting. The setting must be one in which professional psychotherapy services may be provided, such as a professional corporation, professional limited liability corporation (PLLC) owned by a licensed creative arts therapist (LCAT) or in an entity approved by a government agency such as the Office of Mental Health (OMH), Office of MentalRetardation and Developmental Disabilities (OMRDD), Office of Alcoholism & Substance Abuse Services (OASAS), and Office of Children & Family Services (OCFS) or local social service or mental hygiene districts. A general business corporation may not employ licensed professionals or provide professional services. If not previously approved, we must receive verification (e.g., an business' operatingcertificat e) that the setting is authorized to employ licensed professionals. An limited-licensed LCAT may not own or operate a private practice. "

So, check to see if your place of employment is covered by any of these agencies listed above. And above all, do not leave the state. Do not hide. Sure, pay off you loans but we really need you here.

Hope this helps. Let us know how you get on.

Lucy McLellan, RDT, LCAT

On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Ann <emilyann_miller@ yahoo.com> wrote:

,

Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure thing then most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an organization that has their mental health license, with a title that is not that of creative arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this instant or hide away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student loans from that undisclosed location?

Thanks,

Em

[Guest guest]

Thankd for your honesty. Irene

,

Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure thing then most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an organization that has their mental health license, with a title that is not that of creative arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this instant or hide away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student loans from that undisclosed location?

Thanks,

Em

[Guest guest]

What experience has anyone had with the REAT or Registered Expressive Arts Therapist designation. I am currently supervising a recent grad who trained in expressive arts therapy and mental health counseling who is now deciding between the LCAT and the REAT. She is also applying for the LMHC. She says the REAT is a internationally recognized license and could apply to practice of expressive arts in NYC. Is this the case or does she still need to obatain the LCAT as well?

Thanks,

Mia deB

Ann

Hi there. I'm sure will add his own thoughts but as I understand it you should be fine as long as the site itself is licensed itself. There are a whole host of licensed programs in NY State that you can identify at the following link - http://www.omh.state.ny.us/omhweb/licensing/bic/locatebic1.asp

As long as your place employment is listed here you should be fine. Also, you might want to look at this blurb from the NYSED that fellow LCAT, Drena Fagen forwarded to me.

From the Office of Professions:

" Setting. The setting must be one in which professional psychotherapy services may be provided, such as a professional corporation, professional limited liability corporation (PLLC) owned by a licensed creative arts therapist (LCAT) or in an entity approved by a government agency such as the Office of Mental Health (OMH), Office of MentalRetardation and Developmental Disabilities (OMRDD), Office of Alcoholism & Substance Abuse Services (OASAS), and Office of Children & Family Services (OCFS) or local social service or mental hygiene districts. A general business corporation may not employ licensed professionals or provide professional services. If not previously approved, we must receive verification (e.g., an business' operatingcertificate) that the setting is authorized to employ licensed professionals. An limited-licensed LCAT may not own or operate a private practice. "

So, check to see if your place of employment is covered by any of these agencies listed above. And above all, do not leave the state. Do not hide. Sure, pay off you loans but we really need you here.

Hope this helps. Let us know how you get on.

Lucy McLellan, RDT, LCAT

,

Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure thing then most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an organization that has their mental health license, with a title that is not that of creative arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this instant or hide away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student loans from that undisclosed location?

Thanks,

Em

-- Mia de Bethune

[Guest guest]

In order to practice she needs to be licensed by NYS. The REAT is not a license but a registration or certification, much like dance therapy registration or psychodrama certification. What she needs to choose between in the LCAT and the LMHC, if she is eligible for both.

Walters

Re: Important Licensure Concerns

What experience has anyone had with the REAT or Registered Expressive Arts Therapist designation. I am currently supervising a recent grad who trained in expressive arts therapy and mental health counseling who is now deciding between the LCAT and the REAT. She is also applying for the LMHC. She says the REAT is a internationally recognized license and could apply to practice of expressive arts in NYC. Is this the case or does she still need to obatain the LCAT as well?

Thanks,

Mia deB

On 9/11/08, Lucy McLellan <lucymclellangmail> wrote:

Ann

Hi there. I'm sure will add his own thoughts but as I understand it you should be fine as long as the site itself is licensed itself. There are a whole host of licensed programs in NY State that you can identify at the following link - http://www.omh.state.ny.us/omhweb/licensing/bic/locatebic1.asp

As long as your place employment is listed here you should be fine. Also, you might want to look at this blurb from the NYSED that fellow LCAT, Drena Fagen forwarded to me.

From the Office of Professions:

"Setting. The setting must be one in which professional psychotherapy services may be provided, such as a professional corporation, professional limited liability corporation (PLLC) owned by a licensed creative arts therapist (LCAT) or in an entity approved by a government agency such as the Office of Mental Health (OMH), Office of MentalRetardation and Developmental Disabilities (OMRDD), Office of Alcoholism & Substance Abuse Services (OASAS), and Office of Children & Family Services (OCFS) or local social service or mental hygiene districts. A general business corporation may not employ licensed professionals or provide professional services. If not previously approved, we must receive verification (e.g., an business' operatingcertificate) that the setting is authorized to employ licensed professionals. An limited-licensed LCAT may not own or operate a private practice."

So, check to see if your place of employment is covered by any of these agencies listed above. And above all, do not leave the state. Do not hide. Sure, pay off you loans but we really need you here.

Hope this helps. Let us know how you get on.

Lucy McLellan, RDT, LCAT

On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Ann <emilyann_miller> wrote:

,

Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure thing then most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an organization that has their mental health license, with a title that is not that of creative arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this instant or hide away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student loans from that undisclosed location?

Thanks,

Em

-- Mia de Bethune

[Guest guest]

Thank you ,

Correct me if I am wrong but can she practice expressive arts therapy with the LMHC or does she need to have the LCAT in order to do that?

Thanks again this is a huge help,

Mia de Bethune

In order to practice she needs to be licensed by NYS. The REAT is not a license but a registration or certification, much like dance therapy registration or psychodrama certification. What she needs to choose between in the LCAT and the LMHC, if she is eligible for both.

Walters

Re: Important Licensure Concerns

What experience has anyone had with the REAT or Registered Expressive Arts Therapist designation. I am currently supervising a recent grad who trained in expressive arts therapy and mental health counseling who is now deciding between the LCAT and the REAT. She is also applying for the LMHC. She says the REAT is a internationally recognized license and could apply to practice of expressive arts in NYC. Is this the case or does she still need to obatain the LCAT as well?

Thanks,

Mia deB

Ann

Hi there. I'm sure will add his own thoughts but as I understand it you should be fine as long as the site itself is licensed itself. There are a whole host of licensed programs in NY State that you can identify at the following link - http://www.omh.state.ny.us/omhweb/licensing/bic/locatebic1.asp

As long as your place employment is listed here you should be fine. Also, you might want to look at this blurb from the NYSED that fellow LCAT, Drena Fagen forwarded to me.

From the Office of Professions:

" Setting. The setting must be one in which professional psychotherapy services may be provided, such as a professional corporation, professional limited liability corporation (PLLC) owned by a licensed creative arts therapist (LCAT) or in an entity approved by a government agency such as the Office of Mental Health (OMH), Office of MentalRetardation and Developmental Disabilities (OMRDD), Office of Alcoholism & Substance Abuse Services (OASAS), and Office of Children & Family Services (OCFS) or local social service or mental hygiene districts. A general business corporation may not employ licensed professionals or provide professional services. If not previously approved, we must receive verification (e.g., an business' operatingcertificate) that the setting is authorized to employ licensed professionals. An limited-licensed LCAT may not own or operate a private practice. "

So, check to see if your place of employment is covered by any of these agencies listed above. And above all, do not leave the state. Do not hide. Sure, pay off you loans but we really need you here.

Hope this helps. Let us know how you get on.

Lucy McLellan, RDT, LCAT

,

Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure thing then most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an organization that has their mental health license, with a title that is not that of creative arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this instant or hide away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student loans from that undisclosed location?

Thanks,

Em

-- Mia de Bethune

-- Mia de Bethune

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Yesterday I went to the forum held on licensure by "Greater New Yorkhospital association' . Hamilton and Burke were there to guide the audience, almost all social workers or human resource directors, through the scope of practice, delineations between LMSW, LCSW, and the compliance deadline as it pertains to OMH, OMRDD, OASAS or other state regulated/locally regulated agencies that remain under the sunset provision until January 1, 2010. They touched on the the overlap of scope of practice but answered many questions for the social workers present. Unfortunately the response was almost entirely form social workers, other professions were not represented well, so the forum was geared to social work. I made a plea during the meeting that this same type of forum be held for creative arts therapists as well as the other mental health licensees and particularly focus o!

n the overlapping service and distinctive service of each. If you work in a hospital or agency in NYC it is likely that your administrator gets these notices so please check with your director or AVP. You can also check in with this association:

http://www.gnyha.org

to see upcoming education about licensure law and the 2010 deadline.

Best regards,

Marie Carstens, MS, ADTR, LCAT

---------[ Received Mail Content ]----------

Subject : Re: Important Licensure Concerns

Date : Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:24:35 -0400

From : "Mia de Bethune"

To : NYCCAT

Thank you ,

Correct me if I am wrong but can she practice expressive arts therapy with

the LMHC or does she need to have the LCAT in order to do that?

Thanks again this is a huge help,

Mia de Bethune

>

> *In order to practice she needs to be licensed by NYS. The REAT is not

> a license but a registration or certification, much like dance therapy

> registration or psychodrama certification. What she needs to choose between

> in the LCAT and the LMHC, if she is eligible for both.*

> * Walters*

>

> * Re: Important Licensure Concerns

>

>

>

> What experience has anyone had with the REAT or Registered Expressive Arts

> Therapist designation. I am currently supervising a recent grad who trained

> in expressive arts therapy and mental health counseling who is now deciding

> between the LCAT and the REAT. She is also applying for the LMHC. She says

> the REAT is a internationally recognized license and could apply to practice

> of expressive arts in NYC. Is this the case or does she still need to

> obatain the LCAT as well?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Mia deB

>

>

>

>>

>> Ann

>>

>> Hi there. I'm sure will add his own thoughts but as I understand it

>> you should be fine as long as the site itself is licensed itself. There are

>> a whole host of licensed programs in NY State that you can identify at the

>> following link -

>> http://www.omh.state.ny.us/omhweb/licensing/bic/locatebic1.asp

>> As long as your place employment is listed here you should be fine. Also,

>> you might want to look at this blurb from the NYSED that fellow LCAT, Drena

>> Fagen forwarded to me.

>>

>> From the Office of Professions:

>> "Setting. The setting must be one in which professional psychotherapy

>> services may be provided, such as a professional corporation, professional

>> limited liability corporation (PLLC) owned by a licensed creative arts

>> therapist (LCAT) or in an entity approved by a government agency such as the

>> Office of Mental Health (OMH), Office of MentalRetardation and Developmental

>> Disabilities (OMRDD), Office of Alcoholism & Substance Abuse Services

>> (OASAS), and Office of Children & Family Services (OCFS) or local social

>> service or mental hygiene districts. A general business corporation may not

>> employ licensed professionals or provide professional services. If not

>> previously approved, we must receive verification (e.g., an business'

>> operatingcertificate) that the setting is authorized to employ licensed

>> professionals. An limited-licensed LCAT may not own or operate a private

>> practice."

>>

>> So, check to see if your place of employment is covered by any of these

>> agencies listed above. And above all, do not leave the state. Do not hide.

>> Sure, pay off you loans but we really need you here.

>>

>> Hope this helps. Let us know how you get on.

>>

>> Lucy McLellan, RDT, LCAT

>>

>> On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Ann <

>> emilyann_miller@...> wrote:

>>

>>> ,

>>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure thing then

>>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an organization that

>>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not that of creative

>>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my

>>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this instant or hide

>>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student loans from

>>> that undisclosed location?

>>> Thanks,

>>> Em

>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

> --

> Mia de Bethune

>

>

>

--

Mia de Bethune

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

I too would like to go to a forum for the mental health professionals. I'd like to have a better understanding of " scope of practice " as it pertains to creative arts therapists. I'm sure many of use would.

Mia deB

Hi all,Yesterday I went to the forum held on licensure by " Greater New Yorkhospital association' . Hamilton and Burke were there to guide the audience, almost all social workers or human resource directors, through the scope of practice, delineations between LMSW, LCSW, and the compliance deadline as it pertains to OMH, OMRDD, OASAS or other state regulated/locally regulated agencies that remain under the sunset provision until January 1, 2010. They touched on the the overlap of scope of practice but answered many questions for the social workers present. Unfortunately the response was almost entirely form social workers, other professions were not represented well, so the forum was geared to social work. I made a plea during the meeting that this same type of forum be held for creative arts therapists as well as the other mental health licensees and particularly focus on the overlapping service and distinctive service of each. If you work in a hospital or agency !

in NYC it is likely that your administrator gets these notices so please check with your director or AVP. You can also check in with this association:http://www.gnyha.orgto see upcoming education about licensure law and the 2010 deadline.

Best regards,Marie Carstens, MS, ADTR, LCAT---------[ Received Mail Content ]----------Subject : Re: Important Licensure Concerns

Date : Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:24:35 -0400From : " Mia de Bethune " To : NYCCAT

Thank you ,Correct me if I am wrong but can she practice expressive arts therapy withthe LMHC or does she need to have the LCAT in order to do that?

Thanks again this is a huge help,Mia de Bethune

>> *In order to practice she needs to be licensed by NYS. The REAT is not> a license but a registration or certification, much like dance therapy

> registration or psychodrama certification. What she needs to choose between> in the LCAT and the LMHC, if she is eligible for both.*> * Walters*

>> * Re: Important Licensure Concerns>>>

> What experience has anyone had with the REAT or Registered Expressive Arts> Therapist designation. I am currently supervising a recent grad who trained> in expressive arts therapy and mental health counseling who is now deciding

> between the LCAT and the REAT. She is also applying for the LMHC. She says> the REAT is a internationally recognized license and could apply to practice> of expressive arts in NYC. Is this the case or does she still need to

> obatain the LCAT as well?>> Thanks,>> Mia deB>>

> >>>> Ann>>>> Hi there. I'm sure will add his own thoughts but as I understand it

>> you should be fine as long as the site itself is licensed itself. There are>> a whole host of licensed programs in NY State that you can identify at the

>> following link ->> http://www.omh.state.ny.us/omhweb/licensing/bic/locatebic1.asp>> As long as your place employment is listed here you should be fine. Also,

>> you might want to look at this blurb from the NYSED that fellow LCAT, Drena>> Fagen forwarded to me.>>>> From the Office of Professions:

>> " Setting. The setting must be one in which professional psychotherapy>> services may be provided, such as a professional corporation, professional

>> limited liability corporation (PLLC) owned by a licensed creative arts>> therapist (LCAT) or in an entity approved by a government agency such as the>> Office of Mental Health (OMH), Office of MentalRetardation and Developmental

>> Disabilities (OMRDD), Office of Alcoholism & amp; Substance Abuse Services>> (OASAS), and Office of Children & amp; Family Services (OCFS) or local social

>> service or mental hygiene districts. A general business corporation may not>> employ licensed professionals or provide professional services. If not>> previously approved, we must receive verification (e.g., an business'

>> operatingcertificate) that the setting is authorized to employ licensed>> professionals. An limited-licensed LCAT may not own or operate a private>> practice. "

>>>> So, check to see if your place of employment is covered by any of these>> agencies listed above. And above all, do not leave the state. Do not hide.

>> Sure, pay off you loans but we really need you here.>>>> Hope this helps. Let us know how you get on.>>

>> Lucy McLellan, RDT, LCAT>>>>

>>>>> ,>>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure thing then>>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an organization that

>>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not that of creative>>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my

>>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this instant or hide>>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student loans from>>> that undisclosed location?

>>> Thanks,>>> Em>>>>>>>>>>

> --> Mia de Bethune>>>--

Mia de Bethune-- Mia de Bethune

[Guest guest]

Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which I

had in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15

years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and get

another degree. Huh!

-t

> >>

> >>> ,

> >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure

thing then

> >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an

organization that

> >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not that

of creative

> >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my

> >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this

instant or hide

> >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student

loans from

> >>> that undisclosed location?

> >>> Thanks,

> >>> Em

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >

> > --

> > Mia de Bethune

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Mia de Bethune

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry Tara. The issue you are caught in is "reciprocity". That happened to me with my LMFT from California. States don't just accept licenses from somethere else. I applied early enough under the grandfathering option and didn't have to get another degree to do it. I don't think that is an option any more.

Perhaps there are M.A. programs that will accept your credits (as equivalent )and just add new courses to comply with the license. Many of us go through this when moving to another state..

Don't give up. Good luck.

Judi Levy, LCAT, ATR-BC, LP, LMFT

-------------- Original message from "Tara Mooney" : --------------

Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which Ihad in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and getanother degree. Huh!-t> >>> >>> ,> >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensurething then> >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with anorganization that> >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not thatof creative> >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my> >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state thisinstant or hide> >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my studentloans from> >>> that undisclosed location?> >>> Thanks,> >>> Em> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > --> > Mia de Bethune> >> > > >> > > > -- > Mia de Bethune>

[Guest guest]

Thanks all,

This is very helpful as I am meeting with my supervisee today and she went to school in Mass for expressive arts therapy and wants to get the LMHC and the LCAT.

Mia

Sorry Tara. The issue you are caught in is " reciprocity " . That happened to me with my LMFT from California. States don't just accept licenses from somethere else. I applied early enough under the grandfathering option and didn't have to get another degree to do it. I don't think that is an option any more.

Perhaps there are M.A. programs that will accept your credits (as equivalent )and just add new courses to comply with the license. Many of us go through this when moving to another state..

Don't give up. Good luck.

Judi Levy, LCAT, ATR-BC, LP, LMFT

-------------- Original message from " Tara Mooney " : --------------

Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which Ihad in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and get

another degree. Huh!-t> >>> >>> ,

> >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensurething then> >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with anorganization that> >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not that

of creative> >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my> >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state thisinstant or hide> >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student

loans from> >>> that undisclosed location?> >>> Thanks,> >>> Em> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > --> > Mia de Bethune

> >> > > >> > > > -- > Mia de Bethune>-- Mia de Bethune

[Guest guest]

The law is clearly spelled out regarding the educational requirements

differentiating an LMHC and an LCAT. Although many CATs were

grandfathered in and able to obtain the LMHC, the NYSED is now

following the strict letter of the law:

For LMHC: " To meet the professional education requirement for

licensure as a mental health counselor, you must present evidence of

receiving a master's or doctoral degree in counseling "

For LCAT: " To meet the professional education requirement for

licensure as a creative arts therapist, you must present evidence of

receiving a master's or doctoral degree in creative arts therapy. "

VISIT http://www.op.nysed.gov/catlic.htm for ALL the information you

need on the subject.

-Drena

[Guest guest]



Tara may be eligible for a LCAT with a masters in expressive therapies. My understanding is that someone can practice CAT as a LMHC IF they are trained in the field. But they can;'t call themselves a licensed creative arts therapist.

Re: Re: Important Licensure Concerns

Sorry Tara. The issue you are caught in is "reciprocity". That happened to me with my LMFT from California. States don't just accept licenses from somethere else. I applied early enough under the grandfathering option and didn't have to get another degree to do it. I don't think that is an option any more.

Perhaps there are M.A. programs that will accept your credits (as equivalent )and just add new courses to comply with the license. Many of us go through this when moving to another state..

Don't give up. Good luck.

Judi Levy, LCAT, ATR-BC, LP, LMFT

-------------- Original message from "Tara Mooney" : --------------

Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which Ihad in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and getanother degree. Huh!-t> >>> >>> ,> >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensurething then> >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with anorganization that> >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not thatof creative> >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my> >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state thisinstant or hide> >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my studentloans from> >>> that undisclosed location?> >>> Thanks,> >>> Em> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > --> > Mia de Bethune> >> > > >> > > > -- > Mia de Bethune>

[Guest guest]

Did you apply for the LCAT..because according to the NYS website you are eligible for a LCAT with a masters in the specific CAT or a masters in Expressive Arts Therapy.

Re: Important Licensure Concerns

Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which Ihad in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and getanother degree. Huh!-t> >>> >>> ,> >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensurething then> >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with anorganization that> >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not thatof creative> >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I get my> >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state thisinstant or hide> >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my studentloans from> >>> that undisclosed location?> >>> Thanks,> >>> Em> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > --> > Mia de Bethune> >> > > >> > > > -- > Mia de Bethune>

[Guest guest]

>Drena,(or anyone else who can reply)

What if you have an LAC license from another state (in my case, NJ)

and are collecting clinical hours (via supervision) towards the LPC.

Is there an LAC (equivalent to an LSW in Social Work) (Licensed

Associate Counselor), type designation in NY, where supervised

clinical hours lead to an LMHC license in NY?

Any info anyone can provide would be helpful.

Thanks,

Rita

> The law is clearly spelled out regarding the educational

requirements

> differentiating an LMHC and an LCAT. Although many CATs were

> grandfathered in and able to obtain the LMHC, the NYSED is now

> following the strict letter of the law:

>

> For LMHC: " To meet the professional education requirement for

> licensure as a mental health counselor, you must present evidence of

> receiving a master's or doctoral degree in counseling "

>

> For LCAT: " To meet the professional education requirement for

> licensure as a creative arts therapist, you must present evidence of

> receiving a master's or doctoral degree in creative arts therapy. "

>

> VISIT http://www.op.nysed.gov/catlic.htm for ALL the information you

> need on the subject.

>

> -Drena

>

[Guest guest]

>Dear all,

sorry for my late entry into this discussion. I just want to clarify that

actually, counselors cannot practice CAT in New York, even with training.

This is a detail in the legislation. The law allows the already licensed

professions, that is social work, psychology, psychiatry, psychiatric

nurses, to practice CAT if they are appropriately trained. However the

" new " professions of counseling, marriage and family therapy, and

psychoanalysis cannot practice CAT, even if they are trained, unless they

get a license to do so. The legislation had to give some leeway to the

already licensed professions so as not to disenfranchise already

practicing professionals, or draw significant opposition to the

legislation. But nobody else can practice outside of their licensed

profession without the appropriate license.

Yours,

Joan Wittig

Tara may be eligible for a LCAT with a masters in expressive therapies. My

> understanding is that someone can practice CAT as a LMHC IF they are

> trained in the field. But they can;'t call themselves a licensed creative

> arts therapist.

> Re: Re: Important Licensure Concerns

>

>

> Sorry Tara. The issue you are caught in is " reciprocity " . That happened

> to me with my LMFT from California. States don't just accept licenses

> from somethere else. I applied early enough under the grandfathering

> option and didn't have to get another degree to do it. I don't think

> that is an option any more.

> Perhaps there are M.A. programs that will accept your credits (as

> equivalent )and just add new courses to comply with the license. Many of

> us go through this when moving to another state..

> Don't give up. Good luck.

> Judi Levy, LCAT, ATR-BC, LP, LMFT

>

> -------------- Original message from " Tara Mooney "

> : --------------

>

>

> Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which I

> had in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15

> years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and get

> another degree. Huh!

> -t

>

>

> > >>

> > >>> ,

> > >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure

> thing then

> > >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an

> organization that

> > >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not that

> of creative

> > >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I

> get my

> > >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this

> instant or hide

> > >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student

> loans from

> > >>> that undisclosed location?

> > >>> Thanks,

> > >>> Em

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Mia de Bethune

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > Mia de Bethune

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the clarity.

Re: Re: Important Licensure Concerns>>> Sorry Tara. The issue you are caught in is "reciprocity". That happened> to me with my LMFT from California. States don't just accept licenses> from somethere else. I applied early enough under the grandfathering> option and didn't have to get another degree to do it. I don't think> that is an option any more.> Perhaps there are M.A. programs that will accept your credits (as> equivalent )and just add new courses to comply with the license. Many of> us go through this when moving to another state..> Don't give up. Good luck.> Judi Levy, LCAT, ATR-BC, LP, LMFT>> -------------- Original message from "Tara Mooney"> <yayamoon9>: -------------->>> Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which I> had in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15> years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and get> another degree. Huh!> -t>> > > >>> > >>> ,> > >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure> thing then> > >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an> organization that> > >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not that> of creative> > >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I> get my> > >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this> instant or hide> > >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student> loans from> > >>> that undisclosed location?> > >>> Thanks,> > >>> Em> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > > --> > > Mia de Bethune> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > --> > Mia de Bethune> >>>>

[Guest guest]

Dear Joan,

Thanks for the clarity. But what if someone is certified in drama therapy, dance therapy or psychodrama through the alternative route, with a masters in counseling. Could they not then practice the specific CAT as a licensed mental health counselor?

Re: Re: Important Licensure Concerns>>> Sorry Tara. The issue you are caught in is "reciprocity". That happened> to me with my LMFT from California. States don't just accept licenses> from somethere else. I applied early enough under the grandfathering> option and didn't have to get another degree to do it. I don't think> that is an option any more.> Perhaps there are M.A. programs that will accept your credits (as> equivalent )and just add new courses to comply with the license. Many of> us go through this when moving to another state..> Don't give up. Good luck.> Judi Levy, LCAT, ATR-BC, LP, LMFT>> -------------- Original message from "Tara Mooney"> <yayamoon9>: -------------->>> Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which I> had in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15> years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and get> another degree. Huh!> -t>> > > >>> > >>> ,> > >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure> thing then> > >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an> organization that> > >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not that> of creative> > >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I> get my> > >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this> instant or hide> > >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student> loans from> > >>> that undisclosed location?> > >>> Thanks,> > >>> Em> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > > --> > > Mia de Bethune> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > --> > Mia de Bethune> >>>>

[Guest guest]

Joan,

Thank you for clarifying this important matter. I can forward this onto to my supervisee and be much cleare about what she needs to do now to become licensed.

Best regards,

Mia de Bethune, ATR-BC, LCAT

>Dear all,sorry for my late entry into this discussion. I just want to clarify thatactually, counselors cannot practice CAT in New York, even with training. This is a detail in the legislation. The law allows the already licensed

professions, that is social work, psychology, psychiatry, psychiatricnurses, to practice CAT if they are appropriately trained. However the " new " professions of counseling, marriage and family therapy, and

psychoanalysis cannot practice CAT, even if they are trained, unless theyget a license to do so. The legislation had to give some leeway to thealready licensed professions so as not to disenfranchise alreadypracticing professionals, or draw significant opposition to the

legislation. But nobody else can practice outside of their licensedprofession without the appropriate license.Yours,Joan WittigTara may be eligible for a LCAT with a masters in expressive therapies. My

> understanding is that someone can practice CAT as a LMHC IF they are> trained in the field. But they can;'t call themselves a licensed creative> arts therapist.> Re: Re: Important Licensure Concerns>>> Sorry Tara. The issue you are caught in is " reciprocity " . That happened> to me with my LMFT from California. States don't just accept licenses

> from somethere else. I applied early enough under the grandfathering> option and didn't have to get another degree to do it. I don't think> that is an option any more.> Perhaps there are M.A. programs that will accept your credits (as

> equivalent )and just add new courses to comply with the license. Many of> us go through this when moving to another state..> Don't give up. Good luck.> Judi Levy, LCAT, ATR-BC, LP, LMFT>

> -------------- Original message from " Tara Mooney " > : --------------

>>> Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which I> had in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15> years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and get

> another degree. Huh!> -t>> > > >>> > >>> ,> > >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure

> thing then> > >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an> organization that> > >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not that> of creative

> > >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I> get my> > >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this> instant or hide> > >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student

> loans from> > >>> that undisclosed location?> > >>> Thanks,> > >>> Em> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >

> > >> > > --> > > Mia de Bethune> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > --> > Mia de Bethune> >

>>> -- Mia de Bethune

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Read the message I just wrote. Hamilton said that was the case; however, he may be interpreting things more conservatively. I agree with you, .

Dani Fraenkel

Dear Joan,

Thanks for the clarity. But what if someone is certified in drama therapy, dance therapy or psychodrama through the alternative route, with a masters in counseling. Could they not then practice the specific CAT as a licensed mental health counselor?

Re: Re: Important Licensure Concerns

>

>

> Sorry Tara. The issue you are caught in is " reciprocity " . That happened

> to me with my LMFT from California. States don't just accept licenses

> from somethere else. I applied early enough under the grandfathering

> option and didn't have to get another degree to do it. I don't think

> that is an option any more.

> Perhaps there are M.A. programs that will accept your credits (as

> equivalent )and just add new courses to comply with the license. Many of

> us go through this when moving to another state..

> Don't give up. Good luck.

> Judi Levy, LCAT, ATR-BC, LP, LMFT

>

> -------------- Original message from " Tara Mooney "

> <yayamoon9@... <mailto:yayamoon9%40yahoo.com> >: --------------

>

>

> Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which I

> had in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15

> years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and get

> another degree. Huh!

> -t

>

>

> > >>

> > >>> ,

> > >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole licensure

> thing then

> > >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an

> organization that

> > >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is not that

> of creative

> > >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy, can I

> get my

> > >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state this

> instant or hide

> > >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my student

> loans from

> > >>> that undisclosed location?

> > >>> Thanks,

> > >>> Em

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Mia de Bethune

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > Mia de Bethune

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

What you are suggesting makes perfect

sense to me. I think we need to remember that everything can be changed,

and we should continue to work for what we want, what we need, what we think is

right for our profession. The legislation as it has been explained to the

board does not allow for counselors who are appropriately trained to practice

CAT (or marriage and family therapy or psychoanalysis) without the necessary

license. However, Dani’s email states that Hamilton told her

otherwise. Though this is frustrating in a way to get inconsistent

information, in another way it is encouragement for us to continue seeking to

have things made right, because apparently SED isn’t clear on what to

do. So let’s all keep working. One really excellent way to do

this is to support NYCCAT, both financially and by getting personally involved.

Yours,

Joan

From:

NYCCAT [mailto:NYCCAT ] On Behalf Of HV Psychodrama

Sent: Wednesday, September 24,

2008 5:31 PM

To: NYCCAT

Subject: Re: Re:

Important Licensure Concerns

Dear Joan,

Thanks for the clarity. But what if someone is

certified in drama therapy, dance therapy or psychodrama through the

alternative route, with a masters in counseling. Could they not then

practice the specific CAT as a licensed mental health counselor?

Re: Re: Important Licensure Concerns

>

>

> Sorry Tara. The issue you are caught in

is " reciprocity " . That happened

> to me with my LMFT from California.

States don't just accept licenses

> from somethere else. I applied early enough under the grandfathering

> option and didn't have to get another degree to do it. I don't think

> that is an option any more.

> Perhaps there are M.A. programs that will accept your credits (as

> equivalent )and just add new courses to comply with the license. Many of

> us go through this when moving to another state..

> Don't give up. Good luck.

> Judi Levy, LCAT, ATR-BC, LP, LMFT

>

> -------------- Original message from " Tara Mooney "

> <yayamoon9>:

--------------

>

>

> Just a note to say I got fully rejected for the LMHC in NYS (which I

> had in MA) with a master's in expressive arts therapy and almost 15

> years of clinical experience. They said to basically go back and get

> another degree. Huh!

> -t

>

>

> > >>

> > >>> ,

> > >>> Since you seem to have more of a grasp on this whole

licensure

> thing then

> > >>> most... my question is: If I take a BA position with an

> organization that

> > >>> has their mental health license, with a title that is

not that

> of creative

> > >>> arts therapist, but I'm still practicing drama therapy,

can I

> get my

> > >>> license-or is that illegal and should I leave the state

this

> instant or hide

> > >>> away somewhere where no one can find me and just pay my

student

> loans from

> > >>> that undisclosed location?

> > >>> Thanks,

> > >>> Em

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Mia de Bethune

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > Mia de Bethune

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe this will help with some of the questions/concerns that have come up

recently. I

took the following information right from the op.nysed site:

" §8404. Creative arts therapy.

Definition of the practice of creative arts therapy. The practice of the

profession of creative

arts therapy is defined as:

the assessment, evaluation, and the therapeutic intervention and treatment,

which may be

either primary, parallel or adjunctive, of mental, emotional, developmental and

behavioral

disorders through the use of the arts as approved by the department; and

the use of assessment instruments and mental health counseling and psychotherapy

to

identify, evaluate and treat dysfunctions and disorders for purposes of

providing

appropriate creative arts therapy services.

Practice of creative arts therapy and use of the titles " creative arts

therapist " and " licensed

creative arts therapist " . Only a person licensed or exempt under this article

shall practice

creative arts therapy or use the title " creative arts therapist " . Only a person

licensed under

this article shall use the title " licensed creative arts therapist " or any other

designation

tending to imply that the person is licensed to practice creative arts therapy. "

Please note it clearly says that counseling and psychotherapy are within our

scope, that

does not mean we are LMHC's but it does mean NYS acknowledges that we can use

counseling interventions.

This is also from that site:

" An individual may be licensed in more than one profession, but must clearly

communicate

which profession is being practiced at any time and is responsible for

practicing in

conformity with the laws and regulations that define the practice of that

profession. "

Based on the way that is worded it would seem that if you are licensed in one

profession

but practicing another, that would be an issue.

Based on the way the scope of practice for CAT's is written, if people are

discounting us as

not being on par with counselors, we need to draw attention to the fact that NYS

says we

can use mental health counseling and psychotherapy within our scope of practice.

As an

LCAT you are not a LMHC but you can counsel, just like an LCSW is not an LMHC

but can

counsel. At least that was they way is was explained to me in a licensing

workshop I

attended when this all first started.

[Guest guest]

Again, what you are suggesting here makes

perfect sense.  However, SED in some way differentiates between counseling as a

practice or profession, and what they describe as counseling techniques in

practice definitions.  As you can imagine, there was great controversy

regarding using the word counseling in the practice definitions of professions

other than counseling.

I say again, that all the discussion going

on here provides us with intelligent perspectives to present to SED as we

continue to tweak this legislation so that it more directly protects and

empowers our clients.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful

discussion in this matter, as in so many others.

Yours,

Joan

From: NYCCAT [mailto:NYCCAT ] On Behalf Of anotherdmt

Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008

11:28 PM

To: NYCCAT

Subject: Re: Important

Licensure Concerns

Maybe this will help with some of the

questions/concerns that have come up recently. I

took the following information right from the op.nysed site:

" §8404. Creative arts therapy.

Definition of the practice of creative arts therapy. The practice of the profession

of creative

arts therapy is defined as:

the assessment, evaluation, and the therapeutic intervention and treatment,

which may be

either primary, parallel or adjunctive, of mental, emotional, developmental and

behavioral

disorders through the use of the arts as approved by the department; and

the use of assessment instruments and mental health counseling and

psychotherapy to

identify, evaluate and treat dysfunctions and disorders for purposes of

providing

appropriate creative arts therapy services.

Practice of creative arts therapy and use of the titles " creative arts

therapist " and " licensed

creative arts therapist " . Only a person licensed or exempt under this

article shall practice

creative arts therapy or use the title " creative arts therapist " .

Only a person licensed under

this article shall use the title " licensed creative arts therapist "

or any other designation

tending to imply that the person is licensed to practice creative arts

therapy. "

Please note it clearly says that counseling and psychotherapy are within our

scope, that

does not mean we are LMHC's but it does mean NYS acknowledges that we can use

counseling interventions.

This is also from that site:

" An individual may be licensed in more than one profession, but must clearly

communicate

which profession is being practiced at any time and is responsible for

practicing in

conformity with the laws and regulations that define the practice of that

profession. "

Based on the way that is worded it would seem that if you are licensed in one

profession

but practicing another, that would be an issue.

Based on the way the scope of practice for CAT's is written, if people are

discounting us as

not being on par with counselors, we need to draw attention to the fact that

NYS says we

can use mental health counseling and psychotherapy within our scope of

practice. As an

LCAT you are not a LMHC but you can counsel, just like an LCSW is not an LMHC

but can

counsel. At least that was they way is was explained to me in a licensing workshop

I

attended when this all first started.