Re: Aspergillus species growing in humans form mycotoxins

[Guest guest]

That is an interesting find. If I am reading it correctly, it is possible

that ochratoxin actually grows in people?

>>

In a message dated 9/29/2009 5:01:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mortongang@... writes:

from USDA (Department of Agriculture) website:

Research Project: Aflatoxin Control Through Targeting Mechanisms Governing

Aflatoxin Biosynthesis in Corn and Cottonseed

[Guest guest]

The know mycotoxins website says ochratoxin makes pigs more susceptible to

infection.

_http://www.knowmycotoxins.com/npig7.htm_

(http://www.knowmycotoxins.com/npig7.htm)

[Guest guest]

I sent a sample of fluid taken from a cyst in my pancreas down to Realtime Labs

and they found ochrotoxin in it. I had a *very difficult time getting the fluid

from a biopsy performed. It was a race against time. They were going to throw

it away after lab tests confirmed it was not cancerous, and wouldn't save it for

me without doctor's order. The patient comes LAST. Apergillus was the main

mold contaminate in my house from a foundation problem.

>

We found that one toxin, aflatoxin, is unlikely to form in human tissue, but

that another toxin, ochratoxin, could potentially form in humans with

aspergillosis.

[Guest guest]

That's so reasonable since mold produces mycotoxins in response to threat, then

our own immune system cells would be a threat to fungus inside and the fungus

would produce toxins to defend itself from being killed.

>

> That is an interesting find. If I am reading it correctly, it is possible

> that ochratoxin actually grows in people?

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

Correction, (and a catalyst for perhaps a better understanding of

mycotoxins, toxic mold, and toxigenic mold).

Ochratoxin and other mycotoxins from mold don't grow for the

same reason sweat and bad breath from people don't grow. Mold

which is actively growing is what can create mycotoxins. Just like

people who are alive can create sweat and bad breath.

Mold that is alive and growing sometimes creates the

mycotoxins. Mold also creates other substances necessary for

them to survive and continue growing.

Substances produced which are necessary to live are called

Primary metabolites. Substances produced which are not

necessary for life are Secondary metabolites (specifically

mycotoxins).

Another characteristic is that secondary metabolites, because

they aren't required for life means (according to: http://www.bio-

medicine.org/biology-definition/Secondary_metabolite/)

" these compounds are not ubiquitous in the living organisms who

produce them nor are they necessarily expressed continuously. "

Because they don't have to be, unlike the primary ones which

have to be produced or it dies.

Which is only logical. If mycotoxins were necessary for mold to

live then mycotoxins would be primary and would always be

present and we would identify all molds as " toxic " (always

producing toxins). Because mycotoxins aren't necessary they are

secondary and aren't always present. Which is why they are

correctly labeled as " toxigenic " to distinguish them from the

incorrectly labeled " toxic. "

This explains why knowing the type of mold does not tell you if

they are producing mycotoxins. Yes, they can. But maybe they

aren't. How to know? Only a specific test for the presence of

mycotoxins can answer that question. (Difficult and very

expensive).

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

That is an interesting find. If I am reading it correctly, it is possible

that ochratoxin actually grows in people?

>>

In a message dated 9/29/2009 5:01:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mortongang@... writes:

from USDA (Department of Agriculture) website:

Research Project: Aflatoxin Control Through Targeting Mechanisms

Governing

Aflatoxin Biosynthesis in Corn and Cottonseed

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[Guest guest]

This website is excellent. Humans and pigs are not the same, but there are some

insights to be found here. Moldy food contaminated with mycotoxins can stress

the pig's body, and the effects will depend on synergy and the degree to which

the body is sensitized.

It is interesting how the farmers consider using additives to bind the mycotoxin

on foods. I guess some of those additives would be considered organic. Do those

binders get eliminated completely?

My son had a bad experience with organic, small local farmed pig liver, and I

never knew exactly what was going on there. It was a damp year, and the pigs

were fed food raised on the organic farm such as corn and watermelons. My

extremely mold sensitive sone never had a problem with that farm's organic beef

liver. I think these beef were raised on grass and hay mostly with perhaps some

grain in the winter.

Kate

>

> The know mycotoxins website says ochratoxin makes pigs more susceptible to

> infection.

>

> _http://www.knowmycotoxins.com/npig7.htm_

> (http://www.knowmycotoxins.com/npig7.htm)

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carl: I disagree with you regarding the production of mycotoxins. There are

two schools of thought on this. Dr. Jarvis maintains the belief that you

described, i.e. mycotoxins are not necessarily produced by toxigenic molds. On

the other hand, Drs. Yang and Straus state that they are produced by molds

during their life cycle.

With respect to production of mycotoxins during infections, we need to look at

gliotoxin and Aspergillus fumigatus. The observations on cancer patients

clearly demonstrate that A. fumigatus releases gliotoxin in the infectious

state. See below:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1317213 & blobtype=pdf

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=538950 & blobtype=pdf

In addition, gliotoxin is produced by Candida sp, particularly albicans.

I have been working with Dr. Gray and some patients. We have isolated

Ochratoxins and aflatoxins in nasal secretions. The next question is how did

they get there? Two ways: inhalation of particles and/or infections of the

sinuses, particularly the ethmoid area.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

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[Guest guest]

Dr Thrasher,

Are Drs Yang and Strauss saying toxins are *always* produced

by molds, but Jarvis says only sometimes? In other words, the

difference is between " always " and " sometimes. " If always then

there are toxic molds. If sometimes then they are toxigenic.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Carl: I disagree with you regarding the production of mycotoxins. There

are two schools of thought on this. Dr. Jarvis maintains the belief that

you described, i.e. mycotoxins are not necessarily produced by toxigenic

molds. On the other hand, Drs. Yang and Straus state that they are

produced by molds during their life cycle.

With respect to production of mycotoxins during infections, we need to

look at gliotoxin and Aspergillus fumigatus. The observations on cancer

patients clearly demonstrate that A. fumigatus releases gliotoxin in the

infectious state. See below:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=

1317213 & blobtype=pdf

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=

538950 & blobtype=pdf

In addition, gliotoxin is produced by Candida sp, particularly albicans.

I have been working with Dr. Gray and some patients. We have isolated

Ochratoxins and aflatoxins in nasal secretions. The next question is how

did they get there? Two ways: inhalation of particles and/or infections of

the sinuses, particularly the ethmoid area.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this

message (and any attachments) without my prior written consent is

strictly prohibited and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended

purpose of this message has been served, please destroy the original

message contents. If you have received this message in error, please

reply immediately to advise the sender of the miscommunication and

then delete the message and any copies you have printed. Thank you in

advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

It is my understanding that they both believe and state that molds produce

mycotoxins during their life cycle. How early and late in the life cycle thi

occurs I do not know.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.