Re: I don't want to be Human - How on Earth do I respond to this???

[Guest guest]

Hi Melinda,I need more information in order to respond.I'm sorry that I don't remember if you've posted more about him. I delete messages at the end of the day.Why do you think he feels this way? Have you asked him what would be different for him if he were to become a bird?DanekaSubject: "I don't want to be Human" - How on Earth do I respond to this???To: aspires-relationships Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 12:20 AM

This is a statement my husband makes quite frequently. More often

lately as he's been experiencing some depression. If I ask him what

is bothering him, he tends to answer in either a one or two word

response or he'll launch into a 10 minute diatribe about the inate

evils of the human animal. (I'm not poking fun at him, so I hope

nobody takes it that way. It's just that I've heard this commentary A

LOT since we've been together. It gets a wee bit hard to listen to

after a while.)

So here is my question. How do I respond when he says this or

something like it? He often talks about how he wishes he were a bird

or a cat or a bear instead of a human being. While I want to be

supportive of him, part of me wants to say "Well, you can't, so what

is the point of banging your head repeatedly against that particular

wall? Doesn't it just give you a headache?" But I know that sort of

comment is completely unhelpful to him, so I try more often than not

to keep that to myself. However, then it seems to him that I don't

understand him, which hurts him because I think that's one of the

things he wants most...to be completely understood and totally

accepted by at least one person he loves. I accept him as much as

I'm capable, but I'm far from completely understanding him.

His birthday is on Thursday and I want very much to make a nice week

for him, but he's been so depressed, he's not able to respond much to

anything I try to do for him. It's tearing me to pieces to see him

hurting so badly and to not be able to do anything about it or to at

least make it a little better. Makes me want to cry just writing

about it. He's such an amazing person...he has an incredible mind

and a beautiful heart and spirit and it isn't right that he's so

tortured by his own existance and unable to be free.

Any thoughts?

Melinda

Married to an Aspie and wishing I could find his peace for him.

[Guest guest]

--- melinda said:

This is a statement my husband makes quite frequently. More often lately as he's been experiencing some depression. If I ask him what is bothering him, he tends to answer in either a one or two word response or he'll launch into a 10 minute diatribe about the inate evils of the human animal. (I'm not poking fun at him, so I hope nobody takes it that way. It's just that I've heard this commentary A LOT since we've been together. It gets a wee bit hard to listen to after a while.) So here is my question. How do I respond when he says this or something like it?

me here:

its a very nt gear to feel the need to respond at all.

my advice is...dont respond...just listen.

if you interupt him or worse, interpret his words as another and/or different train of thought this will lead to his frustration and will stop him from wanting to talk with you, as most non-AS here complain.

you said:

He often talks about how he wishes he were a bird or a cat or a bear instead of a human being.

me here:

yeah i wanted to be a bull once. he is trying to be human, could i suggest that he is trying to be NT human and thisis, in my opinion where the problem is. Normal for him is AS, abnormal for him is non-AS or neurotypical which is a very strong persuasion to act like given the "norms" of society......a lot of AS fall at this step as they think that being normal means hiding or defeating their AS and acting normal...it lasts a short time and the fight is internal and it is a fight i have had with myself. I am AS and i like it. normal for me is AS, i adapt better now that i know what is normal. i am human too but an AS human. he needs to work this out. you may need to point this out to him.

you said:

While I want to be supportive of him, part of me wants to say "Well, you can't, so what is the point of banging your head repeatedly against that particular wall? Doesn't it just give you a headache?"

me here: your wrong here. he can be human, but an AS human, he still thinks that to be human means to be an NT human, and so do you.

think straight guy forced to act gay to be "normal"

you said:

But I know that sort of comment is completely unhelpful to him, so I try more often than not to keep that to myself. However, then it seems to him that I don't understand him, which hurts him because I think that's one of the things he wants most...to be completely understood and totally accepted by at least one person he loves.

me here: he needs to accept himself first. as an AS human. not an NT human, you waiting and hoping is good for you, but not what he really needs.

you said:

I accept him as much as I'm capable, but I'm far from completely understanding him. His birthday is on Thursday and I want very much to make a nice week for him, but he's been so depressed, he's not able to respond much to anything I try to do for him. It's tearing me to pieces to see him hurting so badly and to not be able to do anything about it or to at least make it a little better. Makes me want to cry just writing about it. He's such an amazing person...he has an incredible mind and a beautiful heart and spirit and it isn't right that he's so tortured by his own existance and unable to be free.

me here: yip i been there too. tortured by his own existence.....its a nice but crude and accurate description.

you said:

Any thoughts?

me here: plenty

you said:

MelindaMarried to an Aspie and wishing I could find his peace for him.

me here: you cant.....he needs to find it, you can help, but he needs to find it. it will take time. he appears lucky to have you on his side.

36 m diagnosed AS libra.

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[Guest guest]



I really think what has said here is right on. I used to often wish I were something else other than a human. To mean humans all seemed at best distanced and unreachable and more often pushy, aggressive, mean, controlling, etc. This was a problem from many directions but the main one was definitely as says because I was AS trying to be NT. Nothing I could do was ever good enough. I could never 'be human' good enough. Someone always found fault, got angry & exploded, tried to 'fix' me, etc. All that made me see people as negative beings. On the other hand my pets were all very understanding and with them I had instant understanding. I had a way with animals and was able to tame and train them. So with people everything was stressed and angst and with animals it was peace and understanding. Only natural I should want to be one of them instead of a human. It wasn't until I realized it was ok to be ME (AS and all) that I began to be ok with being human. Even now, while I have grown beyond wishing to be an animal I have moments of wishing there really were such a thing as a planet Vulcan and that I were from there rather than stuck in this tedious existance here. (lol) Trying to be NT was like a fish trying to be a dolphin and not being able to keep up.... sooner or later the shark eats you. On the other hand if I acknowledge I am a fish and live like a fish I have a much better chance of survivial since I no longer expect the dolphins to wait for me and help protect me as they do each other.

Your husband needs to be accepted with his AS ways... which by the sounds of it he doesn't really let out, even to himself. For years I instinctively hid my AS ways. It caused severe depression. Everytime I attempted to reach out and let people see who I really was inside I was rejected. Looking back I see I had no idea who was a safe person and who was not. I was a magnet for selfish controlling people. Naturally they were not nice when they found I was not what they expected. Since I have learned about AS and become confortable with being who I am I have found myself to have much less depression, a lot more confidence in navigating life, and much less desire to be someone or something else.

Anyway, I just wanted to second what said. It really struck a chord with me as I have been much like your husband in the past.

Jennie AS

>He often talks about how he wishes he were a bird or a cat or a bear instead of a human being.

me here:

yeah i wanted to be a bull once. he is trying to be human, could i suggest that he is trying to be NT human and thisis, in my opinion where the problem is. Normal for him is AS, abnormal for him is non-AS or neurotypical which is a very strong persuasion to act like given the "norms" of society......a lot of AS fall at this step as they think that being normal means hiding or defeating their AS and acting normal...it lasts a short time and the fight is internal and it is a fight i have had with myself. I am AS and i like it. normal for me is AS, i adapt better now that i know what is normal. i am human too but an AS human. he needs to work this out. you may need to point this out to him.

you said:

While I want to be supportive of him, part of me wants to say "Well, you can't, so what is the point of banging your head repeatedly against that particular wall? Doesn't it just give you a headache?"

me here: your wrong here. he can be human, but an AS human, he still thinks that to be human means to be an NT human, and so do you.

think straight guy forced to act gay to be "normal"

you said:

But I know that sort of comment is completely unhelpful to him, so I try more often than not to keep that to myself. However, then it seems to him that I don't understand him, which hurts him because I think that's one of the things he wants most...to be completely understood and totally accepted by at least one person he loves.

me here: he needs to accept himself first. as an AS human. not an NT human, you waiting and hoping is good for you, but not what he really needs.

you said:

I accept him as much as I'm capable, but I'm far from completely understanding him. His birthday is on Thursday and I want very much to make a nice week for him, but he's been so depressed, he's not able to respond much to anything I try to do for him. It's tearing me to pieces to see him hurting so badly and to not be able to do anything about it or to at least make it a little better. Makes me want to cry just writing about it. He's such an amazing person...he has an incredible mind and a beautiful heart and spirit and it isn't right that he's so tortured by his own existance and unable to be free.

me here: yip i been there too. tortured by his own existence.....its a nice but crude and accurate description.

you said:

Any thoughts?

me here: plenty

you said:

MelindaMarried to an Aspie and wishing I could find his peace for him.

me here: you cant.....he needs to find it, you can help, but he needs to find it. it will take time. he appears lucky to have you on his side.

36 m diagnosed AS libra.<

[Guest guest]

david bailey wrote:

> --- melinda said:

[ snip ]

> you said:

>

> While I want to be

> supportive of him, part of me wants to say " Well, you can't, so what

> is the point of banging your head repeatedly against that particular

> wall? Doesn't it just give you a headache? "

>

> me here: your wrong here. he can be human, but an AS human, he still

> thinks that to be human means to be an NT human, and so do you.

>

> think straight guy forced to act gay to be " normal "

Or, equally, a gay guy forced to act " normal " . Either way, the stress

has *got* to be horrendous.

's absolutely right. Your husband needs to recognize that he's NOT

part of your NT tribe. Nor can he be! And he's not abnormal. Only

differently human - just differently normal.

Differently normal? What's that mean?

Think of *very tall* or *very short* people. *Just like you* in

every way but height.

Except " they're " *not* of course: each of " them " constantly has to

accommodate to a world just not made for them. Stooping through

doorways; sitting on chairs where their feet don't reach the ground.

Never finding clothes that fit; or always paying for bespoke clothing.

*Always never* seeing eyeball-to-eyeball with other people! A

million little things; a million little pressures! Constantly. Forever.

If your husband is AS, he's like that. And he's *trying* to survive in

a world that doesn't " fit " him. Any wonder he over-reacts?

He knows way more than he wants about your world. He's been surrounded

by it, pressured by it, all his life. It's not new to him.

You know precious little about *his* world, as you never before

needed to learn. Maybe even you never knew people like *me*, and ,

and other AS even existed.

Which is why *you* need to bend every effort toward learning about *our*

world-view, and his. It's likely *a lot* different from yours.

And cut him a lot of slack as he tries - with your help - to adapt to

the world *he cannot change*.

[ snip ]

> you said:

>

> But I know that sort of

> comment is completely unhelpful to him, so I try more often than not

> to keep that to myself. However, then it seems to him that I don't

> understand him, which hurts him because I think that's one of the

> things he wants most...to be completely understood and totally

> accepted by at least one person he loves.

Unfortunately, perhaps, in asking for complete understanding (from *any*

NT), he'll almost certainly be disappointed. NT's *just don't* seem

able to gain more than marginal understanding of AS.

We've seen many on this List who say they have. But I'd bet all the

AS hereon think otherwise.

But *he* can be brought to greater understanding of *himself*,

thereby gaining for himself a gift of equal or even greater value.

Nobody can force that though; it must come from within himself.

>

> me here: he needs to accept himself first. as an AS human. not an NT

> human, you waiting and hoping is good for you, but not what he

> really needs.

Which is another way of looking at what I've pointed out above. Your

husband is not a " normal " person gone wrong. He's not and never will be

NT, " normal " or not. He's *AS normal*, and always will be.

The metaphor you *both* need to use is that of strangers from different

countries, trapped on a desert island, learning how to get along for

your own survival. Think what that means: language, customs, *different

ways* for everything.

It can be done. My wife and I have done it; others on this List seem to

have done it.

It will never match up to your and his fondest hopes and dreams.

Whose marriages really have? (...Be honest!)

But it can be *workable*, without stress; ...even sometimes downright

pleasant. *Even*, dare I say? Sometimes fun.

- Bill, 76, AS; 40-years gratefully married to a (saintly?) NT.

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for your responses and advice.

Seems like I may have been a wee bit unclear. ) My husband does

accept his AS and has no desire at all to be NT and for the most

part, doesn't seem to try to appear to be. I think his main issue is

that when he's outside of our home, other people tend to expect him

to adapt and to either be NT or force himself into their ways and

when he's confronted with that, he tends to just shut down. I'll

admit that for my part, it's a little difficult sometimes to let go

of expectations of our relationship that have been preprogrammed into

me due to my upbringing or whatever. As everyone here knows Aspie

marriages don't generally fit the typical mold. Sometimes I don't

even realize that an expectation is there until my husband (he's

asked that I don't refer to him by name on this board, in case anyone

was curious why I don't.) points out that I seem to be expecting

something he can't be or do, so in that respect, I am far more NT

than not, but I am also not completely NT. I have Bipolar disorder

so at times, our relationship is a bit like that of a love affair

between a fish and an elephant.

Anyway, I really appreciate all the responses and I think you have

all made some very valid points that require some further reflection

on my part.

Have a good day!

Melinda

>

> I really think what has said here is right on. I used to

often wish I were something else other than a human. To mean humans

all seemed at best distanced and unreachable and more often pushy,

aggressive, mean, controlling, etc. This was a problem from many

directions but the main one was definitely as says because I

was AS trying to be NT. Nothing I could do was ever good enough. I

could never 'be human' good enough. Someone always found fault, got

angry & exploded, tried to 'fix' me, etc. All that made me see people

as negative beings. On the other hand my pets were all very

understanding and with them I had instant understanding. I had a way

with animals and was able to tame and train them. So with people

everything was stressed and angst and with animals it was peace and

understanding. Only natural I should want to be one of them instead

of a human. It wasn't until I realized it was ok to be ME (AS and

all) that I began to be ok with being human. Even now, while I have

grown beyond wishing to be an animal I have moments of wishing there

really were such a thing as a planet Vulcan and that I were from

there rather than stuck in this tedious existance here. (lol) Trying

to be NT was like a fish trying to be a dolphin and not being able to

keep up.... sooner or later the shark eats you. On the other hand if

I acknowledge I am a fish and live like a fish I have a much better

chance of survivial since I no longer expect the dolphins to wait for

me and help protect me as they do each other.

>

> Your husband needs to be accepted with his AS ways... which by the

sounds of it he doesn't really let out, even to himself. For years I

instinctively hid my AS ways. It caused severe depression. Everytime

I attempted to reach out and let people see who I really was inside I

was rejected. Looking back I see I had no idea who was a safe person

and who was not. I was a magnet for selfish controlling people.

Naturally they were not nice when they found I was not what they

expected. Since I have learned about AS and become confortable with

being who I am I have found myself to have much less depression, a

lot more confidence in navigating life, and much less desire to be

someone or something else.

>

> Anyway, I just wanted to second what said. It really struck a

chord with me as I have been much like your husband in the past.

>

> Jennie AS

>

> >He often talks about how he wishes he were a bird

> or a cat or a bear instead of a human being.

>

> me here:

>

> yeah i wanted to be a bull once. he is trying to be human, could i

suggest that he is trying to be NT human and thisis, in my opinion

where the problem is. Normal for him is AS, abnormal for him is non-

AS or neurotypical which is a very strong persuasion to act like

given the " norms " of society......a lot of AS fall at this step as

they think that being normal means hiding or defeating their AS and

acting normal...it lasts a short time and the fight is internal and

it is a fight i have had with myself. I am AS and i like it. normal

for me is AS, i adapt better now that i know what is normal. i am

human too but an AS human. he needs to work this out. you may need to

point this out to him.

>

> you said:

>

> While I want to be

> supportive of him, part of me wants to say " Well, you can't, so

what

> is the point of banging your head repeatedly against that

particular

> wall? Doesn't it just give you a headache? "

>

> me here: your wrong here. he can be human, but an AS human, he

still thinks that to be human means to be an NT human, and so do you.

>

> think straight guy forced to act gay to be " normal "

>

> you said:

>

> But I know that sort of

> comment is completely unhelpful to him, so I try more often than

not

> to keep that to myself. However, then it seems to him that I don't

> understand him, which hurts him because I think that's one of the

> things he wants most...to be completely understood and totally

> accepted by at least one person he loves.

>

> me here: he needs to accept himself first. as an AS human. not an

NT human, you waiting and hoping is good for you, but not what he

really needs.

>

> you said:

>

> I accept him as much as

> I'm capable, but I'm far from completely understanding him.

>

> His birthday is on Thursday and I want very much to make a nice

week

> for him, but he's been so depressed, he's not able to respond much

to

> anything I try to do for him. It's tearing me to pieces to see him

> hurting so badly and to not be able to do anything about it or to

at

> least make it a little better. Makes me want to cry just writing

> about it. He's such an amazing person...he has an incredible mind

> and a beautiful heart and spirit and it isn't right that he's so

> tortured by his own existance and unable to be free.

>

> me here: yip i been there too. tortured by his own

existence.....its a nice but crude and accurate description.

>

>

> you said:

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> me here: plenty

>

> you said:

>

> Melinda

> Married to an Aspie and wishing I could find his peace for him.

>

> me here: you cant.....he needs to find it, you can help, but he

needs to find it. it will take time. he appears lucky to have you on

his side.

>

> 36 m diagnosed AS libra.<

>