Re: Am I REALLY just being AS?

[Guest guest]

She gets home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the budget, she says $15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume it's a little high to account for change.. higher than I wanted, but I figure I'm just being AS, and need to relax.I take a glance today online and it's $18.81..

Usarian,

I truly understand what you are referring to here. I also know that the issue is not truly about having gone over what the amount you said was. It is about her not being "comfortable" with telling you the truth.

I saw that all the time with my Grandmother and my grandfather. Grand dad was a passive type Aspie in a way. Grandmother had to constantly lie to grand dad about the grocery bill.

My grand dad was someone that IF you gave him a grocery list, he would not be able to go to the store and get the right things. Bare in mind that "the special type things" were mostly for him and what he liked to eat.

Grand dad did not have any concept of "how much things cost" AT ALL. Unless it was things that he had to buy for his business, he did not know how much something cost.

Neither he thought of "those" items going up in price do to economy being bad during the war or so.

My grandmother felt that he duty was to provide grand dad with what he wanted.

My grandfathers felt he was to be told the truth no matter what bout what was going on.

Grandmother FAIL to provide the truth as NOT wanting grandpa to "over react" just for "her" giving "him" a "carefully" thought explanation of why things cost more....... Or why she had to go over a budget.

I always thought that IF grandma presented him with THE FACTS OF LIFE, and FOOD in a very calming way. He might have complaint about it, BUT he would have also understood, and even better his "frustrations" about things going up in prices would have diminished in a few moments or a couple of hours. In reality, he would have realized that it WAS NOT grandmothers choice, but THAT she was probably UPSET while buying the stuff wondering how she could get the best bargain, and still get exactly or as similar as possible what grandpa liked.

I saw that and learned, this is what I did with dad.

When dad needed something and he sent me to look for it, I also asked him to give me a price range of what he was looking for. If he knew, he would tell me, I then went to look for what was needed and also bargains things down. Once I had bargain things down, or SAW the sale sign, I also investigate what other products were "as similar in quality and quantity" to what he was looking for. I would call him on the phone if I felt I needed to and present him with the information and what I thought the product might be like.

He then made his decision or let me make it. Dad many times cursed when I presented him with the initial information to show his disgust about a price he did not like. Yet he was not cursing to me, or anything else, I understood what he meant. THAT is why presented him with choices as well, so that he felt he could have a different solution if possible.

I both cases, the ELEMENT to think about was not necessarily the amount to be spent, BUT HOW will it make the AS person feel about the NT.

I can see e point on view in this one, in reality IT GOT TO BE draining for her to constantly have to explain this things to you. In reality, it MIGHT be in her views a no-win situation for her.

If she tell you the truth, you will be upset, if she tries to prevent you getting upset by something that is inevitable, then she is a liar!

In her mind, she MIGHT be thinking: I will be wrong no matter what, ao what good will telling Usarian the truth make?

Here is what I would do if I was in your situation, and trust me I was in both your situation before.

I will take you with me to buy things, and show you and make sure you remember that things have gone up in prices. I will also present you with the fact that children "unfortunately" are judge by what they bring at school, and she might want "her kids" to bring things the same as others. It is only natural to want to protect the kids feelings. Nowadays teachers and also children have learned to "expect" things in certain ways, and they "LACK" of tact and do not mind making comments that will be know to pretty much anyone else in the school.

It is a give and take type situation here, you seem to be the strong one and e seems to be the peace maker.

What about you doing the shopping next time with her, LET her make the choices and if you do not like the price, then compromise someplace in the middle.

It is also good you know the reason why something is chosen versus the cheapest thing in the market. At times the cheapest thing ends up being more expensive as it might break sooner.

When you talk to her, watch your body language and also make sure you are in an "understanding and tolerable mood" So that she perceives you as someone who is willing to understand ratehr than seeking to be understood.

Trust me, e WANTS to have peace of mind and also wants to give you peace of mind.

I am kind of like you when it comes to "knowing the truth". If I am given the truth, and I am not liking it, I immediately stop myself and tell me that "once I assimilate the facts and try to seek for a good solutions" things will be better and ambiguities might not repeat as I am also seeking for effective and positive solutions.

You both seem to be right, and yes in a way you need to calm down a little bit.

She needs to feel "confident" that you will not snap by knowing of her going ten dollars over budget. So that SHE FEELS that she can freely come to you and tell you what is what.

You need to also make her feel "TRUTHFULLY" that she is not going to be accused of being a liar. Do you know or asked he how it makes her feel to be called a liar?

What options does she have when it comes to your reactions as someone who wants the truth? and who also wants to keep things in a very low budget?

Will being a little bit more flexible about budgeting help? What about giving an extra "reasonable amount" of extra money for emergency and special occasions at the end of each month? If she uses extra money, it is still in the budget plan and neither you or her can feel betrayed if the budget is not ON the DOT! or Penny!

In my views the issue here was not really the money, it is about how it make you both feel. e is a good woman Usarian, her patience is admirable.

I really like you both and hope that you both understand I am trying to just give my input for what I have seen in my past. It can be worked out, and this time Usarian, try to think how your body language and your words might make her feel.

Once my father told my exact brother that IF told the truth, he would not get in trouble.

My brother TOLD the TRUTH, and dad spanked him.

Then, next time he got in trouble the same words were told by my dad.

My exact brother's response was: There is not reason FOR ME to tell you the truth, last time you spank me when you said I would not be in trouble if I said it.

My father never forgot that, he actually felt he had created a situation where lying was better than to get him upset anyhow. It was hard for him to not respond out of anger and out of wanting to be right and having the last word. Yet in time he learned it was not just us, but also his fault if someone did not tell him the whole "truth".

He apologized to my brother, and it took so very much for him to do that; but at the end it was the beginning of the road to better understand us and to be better understood ;-)

Love you both, say hi to the kids :-)

.

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[Guest guest]

((((((( e....... )))))))

Want some more beehives?

HUGS,

.

(((( Usarian )))), I have a bee protective NET.......

Got to send you one!!!!!!! If she does not let the bees out, I will surely send her a halo to wear ;-)

Like the kids of a friend say: Chill and make her feel comfortable to come to you with the truth. It will be then a win win situation. And you will be more aware of how much things really cost out there....... She will learn how important it has been for you then to really know the truth. Trust me it will also bring you closer together with dad to a degree.

.......

One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

USARIAN! Pull yersel together man!

She didnt lie. She didnt remember the right amount so scanned her brain for the approximate figure. She wasnt that far off? Perhaps, because it was much higher than you thought, that was a shock to your system so you started looking for a rationale to account for it and she is the focus for that.

She is busy doing all the stuff for Christmas and probably gave you a figure that was as near as damn it in her eyes. What would you have said if she had said 18 dollars, and forgot the pence? Would you still be up to high doe?

There's no conspiracy, unless you want to rail at the high cost of the fluid, which is the issue here! Or you can put it down to your lack of knowledge of the current cost of these things?

Let it go, and get the budget corrected on this occasion so you dont have a shock in the future.

Anyway, for my money, its an AS response. I have one at home just like you!

Judy B, Scotland - whose in-house AS thinks that the food bill should be about £5 a week and is bewildered at the cost of living....

Subject: Am I REALLY just being AS?To: aspires-relationships Date: Thursday, 18 December, 2008, 2:58 PM

This was a conversation a week or two ago.. I just had a small example occur.Regarding the conversation with NT's speaking in approximations, and the back and forth about when or how much my wife "rounds", and mentioned to when NT's she's been close to lied to her.. I had a couple times gone into a little bit about how it's not really lying, but a tendency to speak in approximations.bla bla bla.Like everybody else, especially this time of year, and ESPECIALLY with the way things are going in the overall economy, budgets are tight, and ours is no exception. e needed some thigns for the kid's school Christmas parties (we got 4 in school and you're REQUIRED to send this stuff in or they'll like send CPS after your kids or whatever)I asked her to pick up a bottle of windshield washer fluid at the same time.. figure that's .. what $1, $2 or something, and I'll take it out of the gas part of the budget. I

said sometign like, try to keep it under $10, knowing full well there was no way not to go over.She gets home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the budget, she says $15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume it's a little high to account for change.. higher than I wanted, but I figure I'm just being AS, and need to relax.I take a glance today online and it's $18.81.. Seriously, how WOULD an NT regard this situation?Knee jerk AS, "She lied to me".10 years married AS, "she's approximated her approximation"NT would say what.. think nothing of it?Somebody tell me, what IS the "appropriate" response?Usarian

[Guest guest]

Come on Use. You know how busy I was last

night. I had to make four different dishes for four different classes

and

I had to get and wrap presents for said classes. Want to call me a

liar

over 3 bucks and some change but me man enough to do it at

home.

e, a little bit mad

From: vcsfrewer@...

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:00 AM

To: aspires-relationships@ya

hoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Am I REALLY just being

AS?

In a message dated 12/18/2008 9:58:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, usarianbluebottle

writes:

She

gets

home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the budget, she says

$15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume it's a little high

to

account for change.. higher than I wanted, but I figure I'm just being AS,

and

need to relax.I take a glance today online and it's $18.81..

Usarian,

I truly understand what you are referring to here. I also know

that

the issue is not truly about having gone over what the amount you said

was. It is about her not being "comfortable" with telling you the

truth.

I saw that all the time with my Grandmother and my grandfather.

Grand

dad was a passive type Aspie in a way. Grandmother had to

constantly lie to grand dad about the grocery bill.

My grand dad was someone that IF you gave him a grocery list, he would

not

be able to go to the store and get the right things. Bare in mind that

"the special type things" were mostly for him and what he liked to

eat.

Grand dad did not have any concept of "how much things cost" AT

ALL.

Unless it was things that he had to buy for his business, he did not know

how

much something cost.

Neither he thought of "those" items going up in price do to economy

being

bad during the war or so.

My grandmother felt that he duty was to provide grand dad with what he

wanted.

My grandfathers felt he was to be told the truth no matter what bout

what

was going on.

Grandmother FAIL to provide the truth as NOT wanting grandpa to "over

react" just for "her" giving "him" a "carefully" thought explanation of why

things cost more....... Or why she had to go over

a budget.

I always thought that IF grandma presented him with THE FACTS OF

LIFE,

and FOOD in a very calming way. He might have complaint about it,

BUT

he would have also understood, and even better his "frustrations" about

things

going up in prices would have diminished in a few moments or a couple of

hours. In reality, he would have realized that it WAS

NOT

grandmothers choice, but THAT she was probably UPSET while buying the

stuff

wondering how she could get the best bargain, and still get exactly or

as

similar as possible what grandpa liked.

I saw that and learned, this is what I did with dad.

When dad needed something and he sent me to look for it, I also

asked

him to give me a price range of what he was looking for. If he

knew,

he would tell me, I then went to look for what was needed and

also bargains

things down. Once I had bargain things down, or SAW the sale sign, I

also

investigate what other products were "as similar in quality and

quantity" to what he was looking for. I would call him

on

the phone if I felt I needed to and present him with the information

and

what I thought the product might be like.

He then made his decision or let me make it. Dad many

times

cursed when I presented him with the initial information to show his disgust

about a price he did not like. Yet he was not cursing to me, or

anything

else, I understood what he meant. THAT is why presented him with

choices as well, so that he felt he could have a different solution if

possible.

I both cases, the ELEMENT to think about was not necessarily the amount

to

be spent, BUT HOW will it make the AS person feel about the

NT.

I can see e point on view in this one, in reality IT GOT TO

BE

draining for her to constantly have to explain this things to you. In

reality, it MIGHT be in her views a no-win situation for her.

If she tell you the truth, you will be upset, if she tries

to prevent

you getting upset by something that is inevitable, then she is

a liar!

In her mind, she MIGHT be thinking: I will be wrong no

matter

what, ao what good will telling Usarian the truth

make?

Here is what I would do if I was in your situation, and trust me I was

in

both your situation before.

I will take you with me to buy things, and show you and make sure you

remember that things have gone up in prices. I will also present you

with

the fact that children "unfortunately" are judge by what they bring at

school,

and she might want "her kids" to bring things the same as others. It

is

only natural to want to protect the kids feelings. Nowadays teachers

and

also children have learned to "expect" things in certain ways, and they

"LACK"

of tact and do not mind making comments that will be know to pretty much

anyone

else in the school.

It is a give and take type situation here, you seem to be the strong

one

and e seems to be the peace maker.

What about you doing the shopping next time with her, LET her make the

choices and if you do not like the price, then compromise someplace in the

middle.

It is also good you know the reason why something is chosen versus

the

cheapest thing in the market. At times the cheapest thing ends up

being

more expensive as it might break sooner.

When you talk to her, watch your body language and also make sure you

are

in an "understanding and tolerable mood" So that she perceives you as

someone who is willing to understand ratehr than seeking to be

understood.

Trust me, e WANTS to have peace of mind and also wants to give

you

peace of mind.

I am kind of like you when it comes to "knowing the truth". If I

am

given the truth, and I am not liking it, I immediately stop myself and tell

me

that "once I assimilate the facts and try to seek for a good solutions"

things

will be better and ambiguities might not repeat as I am also seeking for

effective and positive solutions.

You both seem to be right, and yes in a way you need to calm down a

little

bit.

She needs to feel "confident" that you will not snap by knowing

of

her going ten dollars over budget. So that SHE FEELS that she can

freely

come to you and tell you what is what.

You need to also make her feel "TRUTHFULLY" that she is not

going

to be accused of being a liar. Do you know or asked he

how

it makes her feel to

be called a liar?

What options does she have when it comes to your reactions as

someone who wants the truth? and who also wants to keep things in a very low

budget?

Will being a little bit more flexible about budgeting

help?

What about giving an extra "reasonable amount" of extra money for

emergency

and special occasions at the end of each month? If she uses extra

money, it is still in the budget plan and neither you or her can feel

betrayed if the budget is not ON the DOT! or Penny!

In my views the issue here was not really the money, it is

about how it make you both feel. e is a good woman

Usarian, her patience is admirable.

I really like you both and hope that you both understand I am

trying to just give my input for what I have seen in my

past. It

can be worked out, and this time Usarian, try to think how your body

language and your words might make her feel.

Once my father told my exact brother that

IF

told the truth, he would not get in trouble.

My brother TOLD the TRUTH, and dad

spanked

him.

Then, next time he got in trouble the same

words were told by my dad.

My exact brother's response

was: There is not reason FOR ME to tell you the truth, last time

you spank me when you said I would not be in trouble if I said

it.

My father never forgot that, he actually

felt

he had created a situation where lying was better than to get him

upset anyhow. It was hard for him to not respond out of

anger and out of wanting to be right and having the last

word. Yet in time he learned it was not just us, but also

his

fault if someone did not tell him the whole "truth".

He apologized to my brother, and it

took

so very much for him to do that; but at the end it was the beginning of the

road

to better understand us and to be better understood ;-)

Love you both, say hi to the kids :-)

.

/STRONG>

One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo

Mail.

Try

it now.

[Guest guest]

This is not a matter of LYING. It is a matter of

being incredibly busy and rounding off the number in my head. I do it

with

all numbers including my age (only in that instance I tend to round up which

at

my age is not a good thing). I try not to do that anymore but I was

busy

and slipped up. So sue me. If he wants to do all the crap I have

to

then he is welcome to complain all that he wants. No there will be no

bees. I don't like insects of any kind enough to bother. Besides

what does it get me but more crap.

e

From: vcsfrewer@...

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:12 AM

To: aspires-relationships@ya

hoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Am I REALLY just being

AS?

(((((((

e.......

)))))))

Want some more

beehives?

HUGS,

.

(((( Usarian

)))), I have a bee

protective NET.......

Got to send you

one!!!!!!! If she does not let the bees out, I will surely send

her

a halo to wear ;-)

Like the kids of a

friend

say: Chill and make her feel comfortable to come to you with the

truth. It will be then a win win situation. And you

will be more aware of how much things really cost out

there....... She will learn how important it has been for you

then

to really know the truth. Trust me it will also bring you closer

together with dad to a degree.

.......

One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo

Mail.

Try

it now.

[Guest guest]

Usarian & e Skiff wrote:

[ snip ]

> She gets home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the budget, she

says $15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume it's a little high to

account for change.. higher than I wanted, but I figure I'm just being AS, and

need to relax.

>

> I take a glance today online and it's $18.81..

>

> Seriously, how WOULD an NT regard this situation?

> Knee jerk AS, " She lied to me " .

> 10 years married AS, " she's approximated her approximation "

>

> NT would say what.. think nothing of it?

>

> Somebody tell me, what IS the " appropriate " response?

Loughman's First Law of Successful Marriage:

Don't fire the first shot; and don't fire the second one either.

Just cool it. Never mention it.

You'll do worse one day, if you haven't already. Like you just did,

airing dirty linen in public AND in front of your wife. 'Atsa a BIG

no-no Jack!

- Bill, " older " , dx AS; ...and 42 years married.

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

I'm new to the list but found this very interesting as a NT wife to an Aspie hubby.

I have learned to do whatever or say whatever it takes to avoid his meltdowns. So I would say, relax and if you can , please just let it go. Lowrywww.brendagroupdogwalking.comAnimal Behavior and Training Associates Certified Dog TrainerSpecializing in Behaviour SolutionsAnimal Behavior College MentorCertified Evaluator Canine Good NeighbourCanadian Kennel ClubInternational Positive Dog Training AssociationCanadian Association of Professional Pet Dog TrainersODAWG AmbassadorProfessional Dog Groomer All BreedsProfessional Dog All Breeds

To: aspires-relationships Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 9:58:00 AMSubject: Am I REALLY just being AS?

This was a conversation a week or two ago.. I just had a small example occur.Regarding the conversation with NT's speaking in approximations, and the back and forth about when or how much my wife "rounds", and mentioned to when NT's she's been close to lied to her.. I had a couple times gone into a little bit about how it's not really lying, but a tendency to speak in approximations.bla bla bla.Like everybody else, especially this time of year, and ESPECIALLY with the way things are going in the overall economy, budgets are tight, and ours is no exception. e needed some thigns for the kid's school Christmas parties (we got 4 in school and you're REQUIRED to send this stuff in or they'll like send CPS after your kids or whatever)I asked her to pick up a bottle of windshield washer fluid at the same time.. figure that's .. what $1, $2 or something, and I'll take it out of the gas part of the budget. I said

sometign like, try to keep it under $10, knowing full well there was no way not to go over.She gets home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the budget, she says $15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume it's a little high to account for change.. higher than I wanted, but I figure I'm just being AS, and need to relax.I take a glance today online and it's $18.81.. Seriously, how WOULD an NT regard this situation?Knee jerk AS, "She lied to me".10 years married AS, "she's approximated her approximation"NT would say what.. think nothing of it?Somebody tell me, what IS the "appropriate" response?Usarian

[Guest guest]

,

As I said.. this is not e lying. My response in the past has

been that she is, but after being married for 10 years I understand,

her mind does not think in terms of numbers and specifics. Hr point

in saying $15 was " it cost more than $10 " .. th details of how much it

cost aren't important to her, and in her mind shouldn't be important

to me. What,in her mind, SHOULD be im[portant to me is that SHE went

to the store. SHE put all this stuff together for the class. For

her the point is WHAT SHE DID, not how much she spent in the

process.. to her that's a detail and irrelevant to what's going on in

teh real world at this moment. You can see that in her response

below.

It's taken me a very long time to figure that out.

(

e, I'm not upset, and I wasn't going to say anything to you

about it at all, I already compensated for the difference. I only

posted the story here to regarding a conversation that been

here already. I was highlighting the difference between what

refers to as a lie (and I had for soo long).

)

This discrepency is something .. true to AS form, I have had to

analyze and categorize in order to accept. For me personally, I

categorize this behavior when it happnes as " inaccuracy, not

dishonesty " .

There does not seem to be a connection in the NT mind between

accuracy and honesty/openness like there seems to be in some AS

minds.. like mine and 's.

Not trying to stir up beehives at all here.. if anything, just a

little conversation...SORRY!!!!

Usarian

>

> Come on Use. You know how busy I was last night. I had to make

four

> different dishes for four different classes and I had to get and

wrap

> presents for said classes. Want to call me a liar over 3 bucks and

some

> change but me man enough to do it at home.

> e, a little bit mad

>

>

> From: vcsfrewer@...

> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:00 AM

> To: aspires-relationships

> Subject: Re: Am I REALLY just being AS?

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/18/2008 9:58:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> usarian@... writes:

> She gets home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the

budget,

> she says $15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume it's a

little

> high to account for change.. higher than I wanted, but I figure I'm

just

> being AS, and need to relax.

>

> I take a glance today online and it's $18.81..

>

>

>

>

> Usarian,

>

> I truly understand what you are referring to here. I also know

that the

> issue is not truly about having gone over what the amount you said

was. It

> is about her not being " comfortable " with telling you the truth.

>

> I saw that all the time with my Grandmother and my grandfather.

Grand dad

> was a passive type Aspie in a way. Grandmother had to constantly

lie to

> grand dad about the grocery bill.

>

> My grand dad was someone that IF you gave him a grocery list, he

would not

(etc etc etc)

[Guest guest]

I am an NT and yes, it sounds like you are " being AS " here. At least

you have the wisdom to question it, bless your soul.

To me, it's a matter of trust. Do you trust that she is going to try

and keep under budget? Or do you actually believe she is a

spendthrift and will gleefully hand-deliver you all to the poor

house, penny-by-penny? Come on. You know she is doing her best.

I'd say trust her. She is not lying. She is simply a busy person in a

busy world, trying to be everything to everybody. The few bucks to

her is simply a matter of rounding. You needed something, she got it

for you. A simple " thank you " would be great.

Think of all of the money she saves your family by making smart

choices in the stores all of the time. Believe me, she probably

stands in front of the grocery shelves, doing complicated math, to

try and figure out the best deals for your family. And she is not

thanked for all of that agonizing brainwork and soul-searching? She

comes home, tells you a rounded-off number and gets this? Not fair.

I think the right answer in lots of spousal situations is a

simple " thank you " and I think this is one of those situations.

Nicolle

>

> This was a conversation a week or two ago.. I just had a small

example occur.

>

> Regarding the conversation with NT's speaking in approximations,

and the back and forth about when or how much my wife " rounds " , and

mentioned to when NT's she's been close to lied to her.. I

had a couple times gone into a little bit about how it's not really

lying, but a tendency to speak in approximations.

>

> bla bla bla.

>

> Like everybody else, especially this time of year, and ESPECIALLY

with the way things are going in the overall economy, budgets are

tight, and ours is no exception. e needed some thigns for the

kid's school Christmas parties (we got 4 in school and you're

REQUIRED to send this stuff in or they'll like send CPS after your

kids or whatever)

>

> I asked her to pick up a bottle of windshield washer fluid at the

same time.. figure that's .. what $1, $2 or something, and I'll take

it out of the gas part of the budget. I said sometign like, try to

keep it under $10, knowing full well there was no way not to go over.

>

> She gets home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the

budget, she says $15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume

it's a little high to account for change.. higher than I wanted, but

I figure I'm just being AS, and need to relax.

>

> I take a glance today online and it's $18.81..

>

> Seriously, how WOULD an NT regard this situation?

> Knee jerk AS, " She lied to me " .

> 10 years married AS, " she's approximated her approximation "

>

> NT would say what.. think nothing of it?

>

> Somebody tell me, what IS the " appropriate " response?

>

> Usarian

>

[Guest guest]

Usarian

I have come to understand that NT people do not have specific details in their brains like I do. For me it would be no effort to say to you, "I spent $18 and some cents." I wouldn't have to THINK to come up with that because as soon as I saw the amount in the store I would remember it with no effort. I used to think there was no way you could not know how much you spent. But this is not the case for NT people. They literally do not remember details like that. Instead they remember things that we don't remember and/or notice. (Like social oriented things, general information, etc) It's like the human brain can only hold so much. Our brains hold the information ours holds and theirs holds what theirs holds and we can't expect each other to know or remember the things that are easy for us. A rule of thumb I am trying to get stuck in my head is that if it (whatever 'it' is) is easy to me that means it simply isn't on the chart for NTs. Now I just wish I could get my husband and other NT folk to do the same for me.

Jennie AS

Am I REALLY just being AS?

This was a conversation a week or two ago.. I just had a small example occur.Regarding the conversation with NT's speaking in approximations, and the back and forth about when or how much my wife "rounds", and mentioned to when NT's she's been close to lied to her.. I had a couple times gone into a little bit about how it's not really lying, but a tendency to speak in approximations.bla bla bla.Like everybody else, especially this time of year, and ESPECIALLY with the way things are going in the overall economy, budgets are tight, and ours is no exception. e needed some thigns for the kid's school Christmas parties (we got 4 in school and you're REQUIRED to send this stuff in or they'll like send CPS after your kids or whatever)I asked her to pick up a bottle of windshield washer fluid at the same time.. figure that's .. what $1, $2 or something, and I'll take it out of the gas part of the budget. I said sometign like, try to keep it under $10, knowing full well there was no way not to go over.She gets home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the budget, she says $15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume it's a little high to account for change.. higher than I wanted, but I figure I'm just being AS, and need to relax.I take a glance today online and it's $18.81.. Seriously, how WOULD an NT regard this situation?Knee jerk AS, "She lied to me".10 years married AS, "she's approximated her approximation"NT would say what.. think nothing of it?Somebody tell me, what IS the "appropriate" response?Usarian

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1855 - Release Date: 12/18/2008 10:16 AM

[Guest guest]

Be careful, those are fairly broad brush strokes, Jennie. I am NT and

can remember exact numbers and lots of details, and not just " social "

ones. I amaze even my AS husband sometimes.

I think the reason all of us are banging our heads against the walls

around these issues is that human beings are not all black or white,

no matter their diagnosis or lack of one. There's so much gray area

in our gray matter! And therein lies the problem.

Nicolle

>

> Usarian

>

> I have come to understand that NT people do not have specific

details in their brains like I do. For me it would be no effort to

say to you, " I spent $18 and some cents. " I wouldn't have to THINK to

come up with that because as soon as I saw the amount in the store I

would remember it with no effort. I used to think there was no way

you could not know how much you spent. But this is not the case for

NT people. They literally do not remember details like that. Instead

they remember things that we don't remember and/or notice. (Like

social oriented things, general information, etc) It's like the human

brain can only hold so much. Our brains hold the information ours

holds and theirs holds what theirs holds and we can't expect each

other to know or remember the things that are easy for us. A rule of

thumb I am trying to get stuck in my head is that if it

(whatever 'it' is) is easy to me that means it simply isn't on the

chart for NTs. Now I just wish I could get my husband and other NT

folk to do the same for me.

>

> Jennie AS

>

> Am I REALLY just being AS?

>

>

> This was a conversation a week or two ago.. I just had a small

example occur.

>

> Regarding the conversation with NT's speaking in approximations,

and the back and forth about when or how much my wife " rounds " , and

mentioned to when NT's she's been close to lied to her.. I

had a couple times gone into a little bit about how it's not really

lying, but a tendency to speak in approximations.

>

> bla bla bla.

>

> Like everybody else, especially this time of year, and ESPECIALLY

with the way things are going in the overall economy, budgets are

tight, and ours is no exception. e needed some thigns for the

kid's school Christmas parties (we got 4 in school and you're

REQUIRED to send this stuff in or they'll like send CPS after your

kids or whatever)

>

> I asked her to pick up a bottle of windshield washer fluid at the

same time.. figure that's .. what $1, $2 or something, and I'll take

it out of the gas part of the budget. I said sometign like, try to

keep it under $10, knowing full well there was no way not to go over.

>

> She gets home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the

budget, she says $15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume

it's a little high to account for change.. higher than I wanted, but

I figure I'm just being AS, and need to relax.

>

> I take a glance today online and it's $18.81..

>

> Seriously, how WOULD an NT regard this situation?

> Knee jerk AS, " She lied to me " .

> 10 years married AS, " she's approximated her approximation "

>

> NT would say what.. think nothing of it?

>

> Somebody tell me, what IS the " appropriate " response?

>

> Usarian

>

>

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1855 - Release Date:

12/18/2008 10:16 AM

>

[Guest guest]

I should have said I'm proceeding with the assumption unless proven otherwise. After all it won't hurt to assume that people are NOT going to give me the details I want. I'd rather be pleasently surprised if and when I meet up with someone like you, than to be constantly frustrated that people don't give me the details. It's better for everyone.

I don't know about not being all black and white... I figure I'm pretty close... There may be spots where I'm a checkers board but for the most part the paints don't mix and make gray. ;-)

Jennie AS

Am I REALLY just being AS?> > > This was a conversation a week or two ago.. I just had a small example occur.> > Regarding the conversation with NT's speaking in approximations, and the back and forth about when or how much my wife "rounds", and mentioned to when NT's she's been close to lied to her.. I had a couple times gone into a little bit about how it's not really lying, but a tendency to speak in approximations.> > bla bla bla.> > Like everybody else, especially this time of year, and ESPECIALLY with the way things are going in the overall economy, budgets are tight, and ours is no exception. e needed some thigns for the kid's school Christmas parties (we got 4 in school and you're REQUIRED to send this stuff in or they'll like send CPS after your kids or whatever)> > I asked her to pick up a bottle of windshield washer fluid at the same time.. figure that's .. what $1, $2 or something, and I'll take it out of the gas part of the budget. I said sometign like, try to keep it under $10, knowing full well there was no way not to go over.> > She gets home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the budget, she says $15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume it's a little high to account for change.. higher than I wanted, but I figure I'm just being AS, and need to relax.> > I take a glance today online and it's $18.81.. > > Seriously, how WOULD an NT regard this situation?> Knee jerk AS, "She lied to me".> 10 years married AS, "she's approximated her approximation"> > NT would say what.. think nothing of it?> > Somebody tell me, what IS the "appropriate" response?> > Usarian> > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1855 - Release Date: 12/18/2008 10:16 AM>

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1855 - Release Date: 12/18/2008 10:16 AM

[Guest guest]

There does not seem to be a connection in the NT mind between accuracy and honesty/openness like there seems to be in some AS minds.. like mine and 's.Not trying to stir up beehives at all here.. if anything, just a little conversation...SORRY!!!!Usarian

Usarian, I know exactly what you mean and how you feel.......

I do not think that there will ever be words sufficient enough for an NT to really feel how we think, Neither for us to think how they feel.

It is as if words have different meanings, and perhaps they do.

No need for me to explain much, it will fall in deaf ears, and this is a clear example of the differences between NT's and AS.

Never I thought, my words would given a meaning I did not intend. In any case, speaking with the whole truth (AS meaning of truth) is always best approach in my vies. It will explain tot he other person what was done, how it was done and why.

Perhaps it was my fortunate upbringing from a father who had AS himself that I am able to do this. I am an extremely busy person as well, but then again I supposed that one of the qualities I do not want to loose about AS is that I do keep things in order. Then again this is my life and that is yours.

No need to apologize at all. In my views all you were trying to do was to try to understand NT reasoning; and how to find a way of figuring out if you were being too AS.

God Bless you All.

.

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

This is a clear example of how words can be taken is such different context for "some" NT's, versus "some AS"

In your views it is not lying, and I have not accused you of lying, that was Usarian's perception of the situation. In any case, it means two different things for you both.

The point I was trying to make was that no matter what, it would be best for Usarian to try to understand where you are coming from with the way you say things....... Instead of being understood. It is not about the money for him, it is that he felt he wanted to know the truth and the truth for him meant the exact account of the expenditure.

You are right, perhaps he needs to engage in the buying of things; NO, not to get him back, but to make him more "aware" of what is what out there.

I had good intentions, after all, I am able to see both worlds to a high degree.

Yet, I do think that perhaps minds that think alike can be more compatible. Perhaps relationships in which AS that "are alike" can have more success than mixed relationships or relationships between two Aspies who ARE NOT alike!

I am glad you do not like bugs of any type, that was also intended in good nature.

I related my past experiences as way to show what is usually a lack of understanding of what is what for AS and for NT's. After all the ultimate efforts of this board is to discuss things as to help each other figure how to deal with AS and NT in a more harmonious way. It is to find a way to learn to relate, not to hurt. At least my intentions were good and sorry if they did not help.

Happy Holidays for all,

.

One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

I agree with Nicolle - e had to pick up stuff for the 4 kids, do doubt chasing her own tail, and come home to a question about the precise cost windshield fluid! At this time of year I barely remember my own name!

I am NT and can remember numbers and collate budgets in my head (maybe not so, when not rushing around like a mad thing at Christmas and buying loads of items at once) and have a far better sense of budgeting than Ian does. So its not a 'given' that NT's dont pay attention to this kind of detail. In my case, without me doing this, we wouldnt have a tight budget at all.

My answer to Usurian previously was that this isnt a big deal, and that he should just adjust his budget to suit; after all, he had no clear idea of how much the item was going to cost, himself. There are worse things to get excited over.

Judy B

Subject: Re: Am I REALLY just being AS?To: aspires-relationships Date: Thursday, 18 December, 2008, 6:45 PM

Be careful, those are fairly broad brush strokes, Jennie. I am NT and can remember exact numbers and lots of details, and not just "social" ones. I amaze even my AS husband sometimes.I think the reason all of us are banging our heads against the walls around these issues is that human beings are not all black or white, no matter their diagnosis or lack of one. There's so much gray area in our gray matter! And therein lies the problem. Nicolle>> Usarian> > I have come to understand that NT people do not have specific details in their brains like I do. For me it would be no effort to say to you, "I spent $18 and some cents." I wouldn't have to THINK to come up with that because

as soon as I saw the amount in the store I would remember it with no effort. I used to think there was no way you could not know how much you spent. But this is not the case for NT people. They literally do not remember details like that. Instead they remember things that we don't remember and/or notice. (Like social oriented things, general information, etc) It's like the human brain can only hold so much. Our brains hold the information ours holds and theirs holds what theirs holds and we can't expect each other to know or remember the things that are easy for us. A rule of thumb I am trying to get stuck in my head is that if it (whatever 'it' is) is easy to me that means it simply isn't on the chart for NTs. Now I just wish I could get my husband and other NT folk to do the same for me. > > Jennie AS> > [aspires-relationsh ips] Am I REALLY just being AS?> > > This was a conversation a week or two ago.. I just had a small example occur.> > Regarding the conversation with NT's speaking in approximations, and the back and forth about when or how much my wife "rounds", and mentioned to when NT's she's been close to lied to her.. I had a couple times gone into a little bit about how it's not really lying, but a tendency to speak in approximations.> > bla bla bla.> > Like everybody else, especially this time of year, and ESPECIALLY with the way things are going in the overall economy, budgets are tight, and ours is no exception. e needed some

thigns for the kid's school Christmas parties (we got 4 in school and you're REQUIRED to send this stuff in or they'll like send CPS after your kids or whatever)> > I asked her to pick up a bottle of windshield washer fluid at the same time.. figure that's .. what $1, $2 or something, and I'll take it out of the gas part of the budget. I said sometign like, try to keep it under $10, knowing full well there was no way not to go over.> > She gets home, I ask what the amount was so I can drop it in the budget, she says $15. a flat firm number, no hesitation, I assume it's a little high to account for change.. higher than I wanted, but I figure I'm just being AS, and need to relax.> > I take a glance today online and it's $18.81.. > > Seriously, how WOULD an NT regard this situation?> Knee jerk AS, "She lied to me".> 10 years married AS, "she's

approximated her approximation"> > NT would say what.. think nothing of it?> > Somebody tell me, what IS the "appropriate" response?> > Usarian> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -----------> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1855 - Release Date: 12/18/2008 10:16 AM>

[Guest guest]

Hi e,

No hard feeling here at all, I have always liked you and Usarian a great deal.

The holiday season is always busy for everyone, and there is always unfinished work to do.

I am having a quiet Holiday this year, and I am going to do something very special starting on the December 22nd. Yet I will enjoy them in my corner of my world.

Happy holidays to you too, Blessings to all of you,

:-)

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[Guest guest]

Sorry did not mean to snap at you, as it were. I

was

just trying to clarify the issue. Anyway, no hard feelings, there

never

were. Hope you enjoy your holiday season. I probably won't be

posting too much, as I still have a TON to do. Happy Holidays

all.

To those who celebrate Christmas, a very merry Christmas. And a

wonderful

new year.

e

From: vcsfrewer@...

Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 6:56 PM

To: aspires-relationships@ya

hoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Am I REALLY just being

AS?

Hi,

This is a clear example of how words can be taken is such

different

context for "some" NT's, versus "some AS"

In your views it is not lying, and I have not accused you of lying,

that

was Usarian's perception of the situation. In any

case, it

means two different things for you both.

The point I was trying to make was that no matter what, it would

be

best for Usarian to try to understand where you are coming from with

the

way you say things....... Instead of being

understood. It

is not about the money for him, it is that he felt he wanted to know

the

truth and the truth for him meant the exact

account of the

expenditure.

You are right, perhaps he needs to engage in the buying

of

things; NO, not to get him back, but to make him more "aware" of what

is

what out there.

I had good intentions, after all, I am able to see both worlds to

a

high degree.

Yet, I do think that perhaps minds that think alike can

be

more compatible. Perhaps relationships in which AS that "are

alike" can have more success than mixed relationships or

relationships

between two Aspies who ARE NOT alike!

I am glad you do not like bugs of any type, that was also intended

in

good nature.

I related my past experiences as way to show what is usually a

lack of

understanding of what is what for AS and for NT's. After all the

ultimate efforts of this board is to discuss things as to help each other

figure

how to deal with AS and NT in a more harmonious way. It is to find a

way

to learn to relate, not to hurt. At least my intentions were good

and sorry if they did not help.

Happy Holidays for all,

.

One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo

Mail.

Try

it now.