Re: I can't find the mold

[Guest guest]

When you say " I can't find the mold in my kitchen-the sheetrock

looks pristine but the mold tests are all positive. " what do you

mean by a positive mold test?

What type of test? I assume settling plates. If so, how do you

evaluate what grows on the plates? Number of colonies or size?

Color or other appearance?

Are you reacting when in the kitchen? Is there an odor?

I think all that together may help to figure out what is going on

and where.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

I feel stupid to keep writing like this but who else am I going to talk to?

I can't find the mold in my kitchen-the sheetrock looks pristine but the

mold tests are all positive. It's winter now so there's barely a smell but

when summer rolls around I will be in hell.

My brother (a former contractor) suggested taking ALL the cabinets on

the bad side away from the wall, tearing out the sheetrock, replacing it

with waterproof wonderboard (my idea), and checking the wood behind

the sheetrock. Maybe they need to be replaced with metal studs. Maybe

some water dripped into them. I don't know. And please don't tell me to

call the mold remediation people-they are mostly charlatans and always

too expensive. I did a better job than they did in my basement and I felt

really stupid paying them to do what I could have done (and ended up

doing) for half the price.

The rest of my house is good so I can hide upstairs or in the back-if the

basement was finished I could actually go down there too because it's

that dry and clean! So please don't suggest moving-this is clearly not a

problem I can move away from-this is a life problem that I will always

have. I had a bad exposure now every little thing is making me sick and

just my luck it's the kitchen this time.

My husband has just about shut me out-can't really blame him for being

sick of me but wouldn't it be nice if he was supportive?

Thanks for listening and please forgive me if I post this on other sites-

just want to get a bunch of opinions/sympathy

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[Guest guest]

Carl-First, as always,thanks for replying. The tests are those generic Home

depot tests where you just pour some gel into a dish and leave it out for an

hour open and then close it and see what cooks up. I got three or four dots of

mold-greenish and they grew and turned disgusting shades of green/black/gray.

I am convinced the mold is behind the sheetrock itself-maybe in the wood studs

of the wall. The brick outside looks perfect-no pointing necessary-no cracks.

But water may have seeped into the wall by the window.

Anyway, I don;t don;t know if a simple test will pick up mold that is this

hidden but because I am hyper reactive I smell it alot, despite the fact that it

is 30 degrees here and the mold is not exactly jumping. I can only imagine what

I would smell if it was the summer!

I am reacting in the kitchen-when I stand by the sink under the window and I am

usually never wrong about mold- none of us are, we know when it is there.

If this was not my kitchen I would just have someone cut away the sheetrock and

go at the mold (done it before!) But there are cabinets and tiles and I cannot

do it.

I am in the process of getting an estimate or two from a neighborhood contractor

who worked with me before and even though I don't think he really understands

the mold thing, he was terrific and did what I needed done. I am also calling a

neighborhood mold specialist-I think they will completely overcharge me and I

have exactly $1583.00 left in my bank account. Sorry for being so blunt but

honestly, if I had the money, my kitchen would have been done weeks ago. As it

is I am ripping off piece by piece and waiting to see if I get better. It's

ridiculous and I have no choice.

Thanks again, Carl-Surella

>

> When you say " I can't find the mold in my kitchen-the sheetrock

> looks pristine but the mold tests are all positive. " what do you

> mean by a positive mold test?

>

> What type of test? I assume settling plates. If so, how do you

> evaluate what grows on the plates? Number of colonies or size?

> Color or other appearance?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Four is not actually that much. I think they say up to 8 or 9 is low, but

better if mold dots are different type, look different, since that is more

natural. If they all look the same may be something there but test is not

conclusive. Also depends on ability of mold to circulate in room in order to

land in dish and other factors. See if it is getting into whole house air by

putting dish on a cold air return. If cold air return is on wall, tape it up

there for an hour to see how much mold is in the house air in general and if it

is all the same type, but Carl or Jeff would be best to answer this too.

>

> Carl-First, as always,thanks for replying. The tests are those generic Home

depot tests where you just pour some gel into a dish and leave it out for an

hour open and then close it and see what cooks up. I got three or four dots of

mold-greenish and they grew and turned disgusting shades of green/black/gray.

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry I don't know what cold air return means! Please explain-sounds like

something I can do.

Surella

>

> Four is not actually that much. I think they say up to 8 or 9 is low, but

better if mold dots are different type, look different, since that is more

natural. If they all look the same may be something there but test is not

conclusive. Also depends on ability of mold to circulate in room in order to

land in dish and other factors. See if it is getting into whole house air by

putting dish on a cold air return. If cold air return is on wall, tape it up

there for an hour to see how much mold is in the house air in general and if it

is all the same type, but Carl or Jeff would be best to answer this too.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Surella,

It's called a " cold air return " because people only used to run a furnace, and

didn't have air conditioning. In the summer it would be called the hot air

return, but it is where air is sucked in from the house to return to the

furnace. You should have at least one per floor. If you are in an apartment,

it is probably near where the furnace is kept. It's usually larger than the

registers that bring the heated air into house. To tell the difference, put

your hand on it. If air is flowing INTO it, it is the 'cold air return'. If

air is coming out of it, it is a register, bringing newly heated air to room or

newly air conditioned air into room. If you put the plate there it will pick

up whatever is stirring around in your home in the general air flow. Generally

speaking all the air in your house probably passes through the cold air returns.

It's hard to believe but one time I had lite the fireplace and forgot to open

the damper, sooo I came back into a room full of black smoke. I figured the

wallpaper would be ruined. I have white cloth wallpaper! Not so, I had the

furance turned on to circulate air constantly and it just sucked it right up

into the furnace. Furnace filter was black but my house was fine!! ..so all

the air went into the cold air return, even in old house like this with high

ceilings. No black smoke stains anywhere.

>

> I'm sorry I don't know what cold air return means! Please explain-sounds like

something I can do.

> Surella

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh OK! No I don't have that in my house. No central air, no vents of any kind. I

have a hot water system which runs an enclosed pipe of hot water along the wall.

Very clean, no fumes, no dust etc. Thank god for that at least.

So my test under the sink was undisturbed by any air flow. It showed exactly

what was there.

So I guess it means there's a little mold but not much but it bothers me. And

when the weather gets warm I'm going to suffer so now's the time to take it away

before the mold blooms.

I'm too scared to act-do you experience this? Does anybody? I'm terrified to

call anybody, terrified of the work that has to be done. I'd rather hide

upstairs.

Surella

>

> Surella,

> It's called a " cold air return " because people only used to run a furnace, and

didn't have air conditioning. In the summer it would be called the hot air

return, but it is where air is sucked in from the house to return to the

furnace. You should have at least one per floor.

[Guest guest]

Surella,

Are there fins in the hot water pipes that could get dusty? I lived in an

apartment that had hot water pipes at the ends of each room. That apartment

tested with zero mold spores caught before I moved in and afterwards but I was

soooo very sick after I moved in. Turns out that there was massive amounts of

old dusty dirt in the spaces in between the water pipes. Jeff told me to clean

those out. It was very hard to do, but after they were clean, I was better.

The heat in the pipes attract the air to them, due to the temperature difference

and pulls the air through the water pipes, and the dust is collected there for

years.

No telling what was in the dust but I was really sicker there, than I was at

home. It could have been that dust had mycos or bacterial toxins in it. When

the air flowed through them, it picked up dust particles and spread them around

apartment apparently. Wasn't anything alive in them, I guess because the heater

dried them out or baked them but there probably could have been mycotoxins in

the dead whatever-it-was. I wore a mask, had help, put a fan in the window over

it, blowing out, it took along time, it was really BAKED ON and hard to get out.

The building definately had a history which probably wasn't too healthy and very

smelly in some halls and basement. I moved there BECAUSE the mold dish came out

so clean. It was so discouraging.

I didn't think I should move there because it's so hard to tell if someone is

healthy, but a friend encouraged me I think because it was so hard for him to

believe it was that hard to find a place I would do well in. It's so hard for

other people to understand. Then after awhile you are doubting yourself. You

want to believe life can still be as easy as it used to be, and then you realize

you were right all along and you just can't describe it adequately to people who

haven't experienced it.

>

> Oh OK! No I don't have that in my house. No central air, no vents of any kind.

I have a hot water system which runs an enclosed pipe of hot water along the

wall.

[Guest guest]

Barb,

I am glad you brought this up.

The fin tubing in baseboard convectors and even the spaces between

steam or hot-water radiator sections can be filled with allergenic

dust. This is especially true in below-grade or at-grade spaces

(basements, lower levels on ranches and slab-on-grade homes).

What happens is that during the summer, if the weather changes from

cool and dry, to hot and humid, the water in the fin tubing stays

close to or below the dew point, causing high humidity or condensation

in the dust.

Also, as you pointed out, air moves through fins and radiators and

dust collects on surfaces (particularly if there are pet hairs, which

act like filter fibers). Then any allergens collect in the dust.

I have found severe mold growth in baseboard convector and radiator

dust, pet dander and even dust mite droppings (in bedroom heat

emitters).

Anyone with any type of sensitivities who moves into an apartment or

home with baseboard or radiator heat should clean out ALL the dust

BEFORE moving in.

As you noted, wear a NIOSH-N95 mask, operate an exhaust fan in the

window of the room being cleaned and use a HEPA vacuum if possible.

It's impossible to get all the dust out with vacuuming alone (though a

36-inch vacuum extension is helpful for radiators). Steam from a vapor

cleaner is best for blasting the dust out but a spray with a bit of

acceptable detergent will do also; put rags under the metal to collect

dust and water. (In any case, the front access on a baseboard

convector must be removed.)Rinse the detergent water off.

This sounds like a pain to do (and it is!) but don't be surprised if

the rags turn black even after you have vacuumed everything.

One seemingly clean convector or radiator (with hidden dust) can

contaminate an entire home!

" Jeff May's Healthy Home Tips "

www.mayindoorair.com/blog

> RE: I CAN'T FIND THE MOLD

>

> POSTED BY: \ " BARB B W\ " BARB1283@...

> BARB1283

>

> Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:50 pm (PST)

>

> Surella,

> Are there fins in the hot water pipes that could get dusty? I lived

> in an apartment that had hot water pipes at the ends of each room.

> That apartment tested with zero mold spores caught before I moved in

> and afterwards but I was soooo very sick after I moved in. Turns out

> that there was massive amounts of old dusty dirt in the spaces in

> between the water pipes. Jeff told me to clean those out. It was

> very hard to do, but after they were clean, I was better. The heat in

> the pipes attract the air to them, due to the temperature difference

> and pulls the air through the water pipes, and the dust is collected

> there for years.

>

> No telling what was in the dust but I was really sicker there, than I

> was at home. It could have been that dust had mycos or bacterial

> toxins in it. When the air flowed through them, it picked up dust

> particles and spread them around apartment apparently. Wasn't

> anything alive in them, I guess because the heater dried them out or

> baked them but there probably could have been mycotoxins in the dead

> whatever-it-was. I wore a mask, had help, put a fan in the window

> over it, blowing out, it took along time, it was really BAKED ON and

> hard to get out. The building definately had a history which probably

> wasn't too healthy and very smelly in some halls and basement. I

> moved there BECAUSE the mold dish came out so clean. It was so

> discouraging.

>

> I didn't think I should move there because it's so hard to tell if

> someone is healthy, but a friend encouraged me I think because it was

> so hard for him to believe it was that hard to find a place I would do

> well in. It's so hard for other people to understand. Then after

> awhile you are doubting yourself. You want to believe life can still

> be as easy as it used to be, and then you realize you were right all

> along and you just can't describe it adequately to people who haven't

> experienced it.

>

>

>>

>> Oh OK! No I don't have that in my house. No central air, no vents

> of any kind. I have a hot water system which runs an enclosed pipe of

> hot water along the wall.

>

[Guest guest]

I do have fins but not in the kitchen. However, I think it's a terrific idea for

me to start cleaning those up around the house.

I hear you about the doubt! This exposure I'm experiencing now is totally my

fault because I was afraid to say anything initially thinking that everyone

would think I was crazy. Well, now I'm suffering and in hindsight, everyone

thinking I was crazy was probably the way to go.

Thanks for your help, Barb, I really appreciate it. Surella

>

> Surella,

> Are there fins in the hot water pipes that could get dusty? I lived in an

apartment that had hot water pipes at the ends of each room. That apartment

tested with zero mold spores caught before I moved in and afterwards but I was

soooo very sick after I moved in. Turns out that there was massive amounts of

old dusty dirt in the spaces in between the water pipes. Jeff told me to clean

those out. It was very hard to do, but after they were clean, I was better.

The heat in the pipes attract the air to them, due to the temperature difference

and pulls the air through the water pipes, and the dust is collected there for

years.

[Guest guest]

I dont know much about these infra red portable heaters but my mom has two and

my sister got one and they really like them, cut's way down on heating bills and

mom says the two she has practicly heats the whole house and the heats very

warm. ? just a thought.

>

> The fin tubing in baseboard convectors and even the spaces between

> steam or hot-water radiator sections can be filled with allergenic

> dust. This is especially true in below-grade or at-grade spaces

> (basements, lower levels on ranches and slab-on-grade homes).

>