Re: need help with pesticide residue

[Guest guest]

At 10:42 AM 9/9/2009, you wrote:

>new peripheral neuropathy worsening is due to living with the residue.

That's serious. It could be the residue. Do you have heat wave there?

What part of the world? Humidity would tend to take particles out of the air.

Are you airing your home for at least 15 minutes everyday?

I do mine for 2 hours every afternoon.

Could there be a different source? Outside air? Pollen? Any cedar trees

nearby?

And just to cover all bases, why do you related the pain to the residue?

And what pain do you have? Where? Full time? I ask as I believe

peripheral neuropathy to be mostly a " guess " diagnose, with no

cause, and is a disservice to the patient, who needs the cause,

so the cause can be removed, cured. Otherwise, you are always in pain.

I'd rather have a specific diagnose with a treatment, than just manage pain.

>Plus, I have a 16 month old baby here.

How is she doing?

>We can't move out until June and I'd like to try to figure out how best to

>break down the pesticide residue.

Removing it is best. Washing the walls should be done every year,

when the weather gets warm in the spring, so the windows and doors

can be openned to speed drying. Well, after washing, the wall should

be dried within 30 to 90 seconds. That is how I learned to do it. With

two people. One washing, the other following with many drying towels.

Wash with a dilute mix of one of the following:

Baking soda

Borax

Washing soda

TSP (real, not fake from hardware store)

Follow the labelled directions for washing surfaces.

Read up on their web site, too.

Now, this may not remove " all " residue, or even most of it from the walls.

Why? It can bind with the wall material. This is good, as then it can not

get air borne.

There are other chemicals that remove more residue. The wash rags

will be toxic, so wear gloves. A mask might help, a little.

>Two closets also used moth balls before 2004 and they still reek.

That's tougher. I'd tape up heavy duty foil, with blue 14 day painter's tape.

>Any ideas for dealing with the above welcome. I'm also trying to find an

>inexpensive but decent MCS air filter.

What are you sensitive to? Just particles? Or fumes, too? Fumes need a VOC

cartridge.

[Guest guest]

---

Why do you say " a mask might help, a little? " If you are washing away

pesticides I would think a mask would be absolutely necessary. You have to

realize that you are dealing with people with MCS on this forum. D

In , <pete-@...> wrote:

>

> At 10:42 AM 9/9/2009, you wrote:

> >new peripheral neuropathy worsening is due to living with the residue.

>

> That's serious. It could be the residue. Do you have heat wave there?

> What part of the world? Humidity would tend to take particles out of the air.

>

> Are you airing your home for at least 15 minutes everyday?

> I do mine for 2 hours every afternoon.

>

> Could there be a different source? Outside air? Pollen? Any cedar trees

nearby?

>

> And just to cover all bases, why do you related the pain to the residue?

> And what pain do you have? Where? Full time? I ask as I believe

> peripheral neuropathy to be mostly a " guess " diagnose, with no

> cause, and is a disservice to the patient, who needs the cause,

> so the cause can be removed, cured. Otherwise, you are always in pain.

> I'd rather have a specific diagnose with a treatment, than just manage pain.

>

> >Plus, I have a 16 month old baby here.

>

> How is she doing?

>

> >We can't move out until June and I'd like to try to figure out how best to

> >break down the pesticide residue.

>

> Removing it is best. Washing the walls should be done every year,

> when the weather gets warm in the spring, so the windows and doors

> can be openned to speed drying. Well, after washing, the wall should

> be dried within 30 to 90 seconds. That is how I learned to do it. With

> two people. One washing, the other following with many drying towels.

>

> Wash with a dilute mix of one of the following:

>

> Baking soda

> Borax

> Washing soda

> TSP (real, not fake from hardware store)

>

> Follow the labelled directions for washing surfaces.

> Read up on their web site, too.

>

> Now, this may not remove " all " residue, or even most of it from the walls.

> Why? It can bind with the wall material. This is good, as then it can not

> get air borne.

>

> There are other chemicals that remove more residue. The wash rags

> will be toxic, so wear gloves. A mask might help, a little.

>

> >Two closets also used moth balls before 2004 and they still reek.

>

> That's tougher. I'd tape up heavy duty foil, with blue 14 day painter's tape.

>

> >Any ideas for dealing with the above welcome. I'm also trying to find an

> >inexpensive but decent MCS air filter.

>

> What are you sensitive to? Just particles? Or fumes, too? Fumes need a VOC

cartridge.

>

[Guest guest]

Can I please ask, Is this advice coming from a EHS professional, regarding the

home-made cleaning mixtures, the mask, and taping foil over walls? I am not sure

who wrote which comment, and didn't see the original post. Perhaps, I can ask

the bkgrd of the person who wrote it? That would help other readers decide how

to measure the advice, and to what degree to trust it, they can determine if

it's from an experienced EHS type professional or from a layman with a hobby in

environmental issues.

E.g., recommending 'a mask' or " gloves " is simply too vague. Someoone is going

to learn just enough to be dangerous, in this case, to whoever picks out a mask.

Pesticides are a particular type of contaminant that require a particular type

of respirator with appropriately selected filter(s), not just any " mask " or any

'glove' or can simply be covered with 'foil'.

Please, the folks on this site who want to be DIY'ers are in great need of

assistance, they have limited funds, and pretty much no where to turn for

financial support, and they are getting confused by too many cooks in the

kitchen (how many remediators can you call today?)

Free, honest, and open assistance is important to them, but only if that

assistance will be safe, not just affordable and easy to do.

Very Truly,

Armour, M.S. Environmental and Occupational Health Science

Director, Cleveland Chapter IAQA

Consultant, private practice

>

> ---

> Why do you say " a mask might help, a little? " If you are washing away

pesticides I would think a mask would be absolutely necessary. You have to

realize that you are dealing with people with MCS on this forum. D

>

[Guest guest]

,

Am reading your posts. You are putting out some pretty good advice.

However, I take issue with this one:

That would help other readers decide how to measure the advice, and to

what degree to trust it, they can determine if it's from an experienced EHS

type professional or from a layman with a hobby in environmental issues.

If a large percentage of the readers on this 2200 member, 11 year old chat

board, had waited for accurate advice from " experienced EHS type

professionals " , half of them would probably be dead by now. With all due

respect,

this board is for the sharing of ideas from not just the learned but the

experienced.

By now, we all know that there is not one single over every aspect

of this issue. Advice is good and it is kind of many to share what they

have learned - either thru education or the hard way. But you need to

understand, if EHS type professionals had all the answers,

_Sickbuildings _ (mailto:Sickbuildings ) would

not even be in

existence. There would be no need for people to seek advice from the

experienced instead of the learned.

In other words, I always value your input and your willingness to share.

I learn a lot from you. And, I also value the input of many others on this

board and am appreciative of what I have learned from them, EHS type

professional designation or not.

Sharon K

[Guest guest]

To the original poster, Diane who is reading this thread, likely with dismay,

please do not unsub, as the help you want is likely here on this list, and

the one replier who is hammering on minor side issues, barely pertinent

to your situation, is not likely very enjoyable for you to read. Let it be

known does not bother me, at all. So, if he is not chasing me

away, then his posting style should not chase you away either.

The original poster merely suspected residue, and it appears that is

not a likely situation, imo. Other avenues need to be explored, and once

those are eliminated, and residue is once again being considered,

advice about remediation, inexpensively and safely, is available.

The actual cause of the ailing has to be determined, a top priority, and

I encourage people to volunteer possible causes. After that, we can

lists top level things to do to reduce symptoms, and the list might

include one or two remediation steps, for various reasons.

, if you have any information on cleaning pesticide residue indoor,

I am sure Diane would like to hear back from you. At a minimum, she

might do her sleeping room, and keep her door shut to keep the rest

of home's fumes from entering via the door.

In the meantime, let's help Diane, with our group mind, to speedily

find the cause of the extremity neuropathy. It could be pesticide,

that can cause pain in the hand ...or not? Anyone expert in pesticide

exposure?

I hope Diane has not unsubbed, feeling she caused a little hiccup

for one member who did not understand the goal was to help Diane.

It certainly was not Diane's fault, and she deserves our best.

-p

At 06:33 AM 9/11/2009, you wrote:

>

>

>Can I please ask, Is this advice coming from a EHS professional, regarding the

home-made cleaning mixtures, the mask, and taping foil over walls? I am not sure

who wrote which comment, and didn't see the original post. Perhaps, I can ask

the bkgrd of the person who wrote it? That would help other readers decide how

to measure the advice, and to what degree to trust it, they can determine if

it's from an experienced EHS type professional or from a layman with a hobby in

environmental issues.

>

>E.g., recommending 'a mask' or " gloves " is simply too vague. Someoone is going

to learn just enough to be dangerous, in this case, to whoever picks out a mask.

Pesticides are a particular type of contaminant that require a particular type

of respirator with appropriately selected filter(s), not just any " mask " or any

'glove' or can simply be covered with 'foil'.

>

>Please, the folks on this site who want to be DIY'ers are in great need of

assistance, they have limited funds, and pretty much no where to turn for

financial support, and they are getting confused by too many cooks in the

kitchen (how many remediators can you call today?)

>Free, honest, and open assistance is important to them, but only if that

assistance will be safe, not just affordable and easy to do.

>

>Very Truly,

> Armour, M.S. Environmental and Occupational Health Science

>Director, Cleveland Chapter IAQA

>Consultant, private practice

>

>

>>

>> ---

>> Why do you say " a mask might help, a little? " If you are washing away

pesticides I would think a mask would be absolutely necessary. You have to

realize that you are dealing with people with MCS on this forum. D

>>

>

[Guest guest]

We just had pesticide exposure and our pain levels have increased.  The nerves

in my legs are the worst.  His is lower back and neck. These are areas which we

both have had problems with. These are one of the worst parts of our bodies due

to injuries. (my injury to lower back affects nerves in my legs).  I would say

it would attack in your worst places the most.

 

  

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: <pete-@...>

Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:50:56 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: need help with pesticide residue

 

To the original poster, Diane who is reading this thread, likely with dismay,

please do not unsub,

[Guest guest]

---

Sorry Pete, by you are mistaken. I am NOT the original poster and do not have

neuropathy. It was not me who started this thread at all. D

In , <pete-@...> wrote:

>

> To the original poster, Diane who is reading this thread, likely with dismay,

> please do not unsub, as the help you want is likely here on this list, and

> the one replier who is hammering on minor side issues, barely pertinent

> to your situation, is not likely very enjoyable for you to read.

[Guest guest]

I think the original discussion was about pesticides and moth balls. Both would

cause me difficulty. I had a neighbor and her place reeked of mothballs, and

at times I could detect it in my bathroom. A few times I knocked on her door,

cuz she was a nice lady but the fumes would come out the door when she opened

it.

I appreciate all discussions. That is how we have learned so much and many of us

have been here for over 11 years it seems. Funny from some of my reading during

the years many became ill in the 90's even, though there are some like Carl

that it has been much longer.

Even the discussion about what color molds they had helps us become informed

since we are basically on our own or trying to teach our families or

politicians. I don't know what I would have done without these groups-- this one

and cis group for the chemical injured. Mainly I think our anger needs to go to

the people that are not doing anything to help in the chemical issue in our

products or the indoor mold issue. It is getting so exhausting. And the news

people cause a lot of stress, and many of us have taken that route to get them

to make people aware. And for goodness sakes include our illnesses with all this

health care reform. Does me no good to have cancer tests, physical exams if I am

going to be scared to death about something else when they have not admitted

and done something to help us with these problems.

There is so much they could do like put exhaust systems away from windows in new

construction, so we don't have dryer exhaust coming into our windows. Have

doctors that know what to do, or help the ones that can't afford these

expensive doctors/tests. And figure out about remediation. Stop the lobbying

and special interests as we were promised so the political people are not in

bed with the lobbyist. God that is discusting. When I was ill and writing to

Vice President Biden/senator at the time, I would hear the third moldy

landlord's brother would have Biden at his church. Those brother's lawyer whch

they knew for 30 years and friends with was involved with the house went to

jail for embezzling people. I was writing to the Governor, and I would see this

same brother on the front page of the newspaper with the Governor. The second

house the lawyer that I was signing a contract for to sue the 1st and 2nd homes

waited til a day of statue of limitations, and put in a contract, but left his

name off cuz he was friends with the corporate people that owned the apartment.

And the first house-- when I reported the mold they painted and removed

wallpaper in the winter-- while I was on the edge of sinus surgery. I had cat

scans that all sinuses were infected and with polyps. They worked for about a

month on and off painting when I was almost getting better which another cat

scan proved. By the time these 20 year old/landlord's sons were done I was

headed for surgery-- and was told to get out 6 weeks after surgery. Now left

with reactive airways, mcs, ashtma, or whatever. These people had a rare

name-- and the name of a man high up in the county. Who knows if any of these

people were dirty, but it sure makes one think. And all we know now regarding

dangers of our products, and they are made with chemicals not tested for

safety. A disgrace. Why in the heck should any of us have to put up with this

stuff. So we are tired and mad-- at least the ones that have been wronged. Sorry

if I went off topic or on and on. Lastly in our third place we lost our car

because my husband gutted the house, and we went to that dirty lawyer that went

to jail.Tthe day we moved in after gutting, tiling with ceramic doing bathroom,

kitchen from cupboards,ceramic, sinks, etc. this man said we had no deal-- and

we were trespassing. That was thrown out of court. Then another courtcase

because we refused to pay finally after the other losing everything from the

other two houses. The only thing we did not do was the roof, which in all the

court mess got moldy from leaks. Of course we lost, and they took my car

that was paid for and only had 40,000 miles. Finally the place was condemned

after I called and reported it to the county. I have not driven a car since

that time which was in 2001. So I am mad-- and will not give up.

whooooooooo that was long.

[Guest guest]

Sharon, Barb, others.

Thanx for the words of support. I won't have time to participate in any

discussions for awhile anyway.

I will help out when ever any one wishes a techie kind of answer or input. I'm

always out here.

We are in this together, believe it or not.

It's a tough and dangerous business out there, be careful. And always

listen with an open mind. And get a second opinion from someone very different

than the first.

 

Armour, M.S.

Armour Applied Science, LLC

AND

Director, Cleveland Chapter of the Indoor Air Quality Association

" Our goal is to create collaborative relationships for mutually beneficial

educational and networking opportunities so that together, we can advance the

proliferation of healthy and safe indoor environments and improved

sustainability. "

216-225-5237 direct/mobile

scottarmour@...