Re: ACAAI, Dr.Bardana, US Chamber, PACs, Insurance, Pharm...

[Guest guest]

Ginny,

You write, " The workplaces are not investigated as they are supposed to

be. "

That statement would depend on your perspective. If you are one who wants

to avoid financial liability from illnesses caused by , then

you would also be one who thinks the buildings are being investigated just

fine. You would also think that DC is doing a stellar job...of turning a

blind eye to a national disgrace in US public health policy.

While the CIAQ is working to change things, the games continue to play out

here in the real world.

National Apartment Association submitting amicus briefs citing to the US

Chamber's fraudulent " Scientific View " that cites false authorship of being

written by a physician...in a litigation involving two dead infants?

And Emil Bardana being held out as a physician that young allergists

should emulate while he professionally denies causation of illness, that causes

the need for more Singulair to be purchased when people do not know to get

away from what ails them? And gee, the makers of Singulair sponsor his Gold

Headed Cane award?

Seven San Diego judges and justices refusing to acknowledge Kelman has

been committing perjury for four years as to why I would have malice for him,

and using this criminal perjury to prove that I maliciously accused him of

one who would commit criminal perjury with my word " altered " ?

NOPE! I live in the United States of America. This does not fly in my

book.

Kelman has a problem. It is very bad when one who has served as an expert

witness for the DOJ and has authored a policy paper for the US Chamber of

Commerce commits criminal perjury to establish a false theme for

malice..and seven judges and justices (and the Ca State Bar) turn a blind eye

to the

uncontroverted evidence of Kelman's perjury.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/15/2009 10:48:44 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

ginloi@... writes:

It all comes out in the wash. I hope.

Yes, Ginny. It does and it will. I have never thought of myself as a

particularly smart person. I have a slightly above average IQ. (and everyone

knows I can't even type!).

But one thing I seem to have an uncanny aptitude for is solving complex

problems involving flow of information.

When we were going thru our own mold litigation, the defense put me thru a

neuropsych exam trying to prove I was crazy for being concerned that a

house with a high count of aspergillus was not safe for my daughter with

aspergillosis.

It was one of the few highlights of the litigation. Very fun. For two

days, I sat and played games and solved puzzles with the psychologist hired

by the defense.

The final result concluded that although I am not that smart, I scored far

superior to scientists and administrator at solving complex puzzles.

It has been a long road over this issue, but I think I am exactly where I

am suppose to be.

Kelman committed criminal perjury while professing to prove he was falsely

accused of being one who would commit criminal perjury. Seven San Diego

judges and justices have ignored my uncontroverted evidence of such.

Then, after defeating my anti-SLAPP motion thru the use of criminal

perjury, he attempted to use this litigation to coerce me into silence by trying

to force me to endorse his expert witnessing enterprise.

Three minute video of Kelman's perjury on the issue of malice and attempt

to force me to endorse his expert witnessing enterprise as being based on

legitimate science:

_http://www.blip.tv/file/2063366/_ (http://www.blip.tv/file/2063366/)

If anyone thinks I am going to be quiet about an expert witness for the DOJ

in mold litigation and author of the US Chamber of Commerce's position

paper on mold committing criminal perjury in a litigation with the intended

purpose of trying to force me into silence, they are sadly mistaken.

Are you getting all of this, Sudakin? Please forward where

relevant.

Mrs. Kramer

[Guest guest]

Sharon -

It was my " personal " experience that the worksites in the environmental, not

construction-type injuries have not been fully checked out, especially when

connected to Workers Comp and OSHA.

First, there is the problem of " self-insurer " where the employee is really

working for an " insurance company. " There is no " high profile " camera crew

coming out to investigate an environmental injury with parity to a scaffold

falling off a skyscraper. There are no xrays which are in the mainstream like

the broken leg on a chair, for all to see.

Second, the " psycho " or " hysterical " has zero bearing in my view, to a competent

diagnosis, which I sought fruitlessly for a long time, and make no mistake. You

know that good docs are afraid.

I just finished reading a story about " white nose " bad syndrome. Where is the

funding for sick people from fungus? You are correct that the " stakeholders "

are running the show. Money talks and baloney walks but " he who has the gold,

still rules. "

I " walked the walk " in a sick building. And ended up " putting my money where my

mouth was. " You did the same in your situation.

And the story is as convoluted as the scenario that you are involved in. They

are " state specific " except where a national group which has the " ear " of people

in charge.

A private group can always give a " prize " to whomever they like. We may not

like it but that is the way the world works. I know nothing about this award

except what I read here. It makes me sick when I see someone who clearly does

not deserve an accolade, gets one, but it is something over which I have no

control. It all comes out in the wash. I hope.

[Guest guest]

Sharon, thanks for keeping us focused on the fraud and deceit in this issue. It

inspires many moldies to fight to expose the truth. And, it's fun to know that

the insurance company trolls on this group are getting slapped in the face every

time you repeat the story. We appreciate your efforts!!

________________________________

From: " snk1955@... " <snk1955@...>

Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 3:23:35 AM

Subject: Re: [] Re: ACAAI, Dr.Bardana, US Chamber, PACs, Insurance,

Pharm...

Ginny,

You write, " The workplaces are not investigated as they are supposed to

be. "

That statement would depend on your perspective. If you are one who wants

to avoid financial liability from illnesses caused by , then

you would also be one who thinks the buildings are being investigated just

fine. You would also think that DC is doing a stellar job...of turning a

blind eye to a national disgrace in US public health policy.

[Guest guest]

Sharon - I can tell you after 30 years teaching in a large city with many

problems and two degrees in education, that " smart " has many faces. I am not

particularly smart, but I work very hard, and use many " channels " to learn, like

taping classes, etc., and yet a B is a good mark for me.

Sharon - you are good at problem solving. Some tests look for aptitude and

others look for a specific " skill set " and the neuropsych might have been

" tailored " for a particular " outcome. "

I am very poor in art and it almost kept me from becoming a teacher. I used to

beg the nuns to let me wash the boards on Friday rather than let anyone see how

badly I drew. A fact. Many people who are poor spellers and poor at math have

dug and dug for research. The thing I liked more than anything were those

dot-to-dot books to connect the dots...It has helped me in life to learn the big

picture and " connect the dots " .

We shall prevail in this guerilla war. Not because we are smarter, but, because

we have more " at stake " than the " stakeholders. "

>

> Yes, Ginny. It does and it will. I have never thought of myself as a

> particularly smart person. I have a slightly above average IQ. (and everyone

> knows I can't even type!).

>

> But one thing I seem to have an uncanny aptitude for is solving complex

> problems involving flow of information.

>

[Guest guest]

Carl,

That was beautifully written and absolutely correct. We HAVE made progress

over the past few years. We have the ear of the Federal government on

where to advance the health science. But that takes too much time for my

taste. People are sick today. All it would take is to tell the physicians of

America to consider the indoor environment and ask questions about it when

people exhibit cetain symptoms.

Awarding physicians in a fanfare presentation (sponsored by a

pharmaceutical company) such as Dr. Emil, who has made a handsome living

denying the

indoor environment causes illness, is not a good message to send to young

allergists. Over the years, I have seen him referred to as " Evil Banana " from

injured workers in the Northwest.

Jay Portnoy, you and Jeff giving presenations IS a good message.

But look at it from a marketing standpoint. It is STILL the good ole boys

patting each other on the back for the pompous and pious positions...with

Singulair profiting from people being left in the dark (and in the mold).

It takes all kinds to solve this problem. We have many fine friends

read the recent posts by Ginny and Sharon. Let those who are

activists be activists. Let those who need help take what help is

available. Let those who can contribute do so in the way they best

know how. It will take us all working together as a team to make a

difference, each doing or taking as needed. But we must support,

not turn on, each other.

I'm able to be very active now, but I continue to take great

comfort and pride in hearing how each of you are fighting to find a

better, more healthful life and when we support each other, each

in our own way. Some with facts, some with studies, some with

personal experiences. Sometimes it's as simple as Janet

responding with two or three words when she is able. Or

Jeannine despite her vision and cognitive fog problems causing

misspelled words. If only misspelled words were our greatest

issues.

Some of you can do " nothing more " than receive help. But that is

just as important because not only are you being helped but we

learn from you. Speaking of learning, several of you do " nothing

more " than research and research and research some more for

information and studies. " Nothing more?! " That is so valuable to

all of us because you find what my professional colleagues don't.

None of the above is " Nothing more. " That's huge! Keep it up! All

of it.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

[Guest guest]

Ginny & Sharon,

First, this is not an apology for Bardana, ACAAI, the Chamber or

anyone else associated with their travesty.

Second, I was at the ACAAI conference but refused to attend the

award ceremony.

Third, do not condemn the entire ACAAI (www.acaai.org),

especially the up-and-comers, based on what the older regime

recognizes and honors. Membership is down and the movement

for change appears to be coming from a younger group, not

those who honor the likes of Bardana.

Fourth, Ginny, I totally agree with your response to Sharon. We

are all different with different abilities and strengths. Don't let the

" weakness " (as defined by others) stop the rest of our

contributions.

Sharon, you asked last week (or so) that I inform the group of

some of the integration of good efforts which are occurring. To do

so requires at least a 50 minute presentation, which I've given to

several groups over the last six months. So this will be a vastly

shortened version specific to ACAAI (www.acaai.org).

November 2007: ACAAI had a full day, pre-conference workshop

on building science for physicians. This is what woke me up to a

new movement in (part of) the medical community. An IAQA staff

member and I attended and we took it to the Board. There is now

a Home Health committee actively working on issues which

connect people with buildings and medicine.

AAAAI, the academic research sister to the ACAAI, is incredibly

conservative. However, for the past two years they have had a

presentation by some of the ACAAI presenters (above) on

building science and effects of buildings on people. They have

been well attended by an international audience. a Bloom, by

the way, was one of the attendees. This is but one example of the

level of interest and attendance for these events.

ACAAI last week in Miami:

A building science / medical panel was presented. Jeff May was

one of the panelists. I wasn't able to attend but during my booth

duty for IAQA there were a number of attendees who commented

enthusiastically and expressed an interest in more like it.

Interest at the IAQA booth was brisk, and more so than the past

two years. Demographics was interesting. Elderly physicians

stopped by to say they used to do home assessments and how

essential it was for proper diagnosis and treatment. The very

young were interested. As were those from at least a dozen other

countries. Upper middle-aged men in power were the least

interested.

(BTW, at a recent CDC conference those in charge were older

men with few women. But many of the presentations were by

young men and women, mostly women. And they will be a force

to be reckoned with!)

Although the Presidents of ACAAI since Jay Portnoy haven't been

enthusiastic about environmental issues the trend is, and the

upcoming President (after this year) seems to be.

Dr Portnoy previously emphasized the importance of patient

satisfaction over evidence-only satisfaction. Evidence-only

medicine is where the evidence comes first and the patient must

fit the evidence. If they don't they are referred to others and/or

labeled " psychogenic. " The deceitful arrogance of " evidence-only "

is that everyone already knows all there is to know about

everything. Therefore the evidence is not only first but only. If a

patient disagrees or doesn't fit the evidence then they are, by

default, at fault. We all know and many have experienced the

obscenity of that.

Evidenced-based medicine, as I've seen it explained in more than

one presentation, is where the patient comes first and evidence is

sought which best fits diagnosing and successfully treating the

patient. How novel!

This year I attended several ACAAI presentations where the

crystal clear EVIDENCE (including double-blinded controls, etc)

was that there is no one size fits all; but rather one size fits none.

The emphasis was on not only legitimate evidence-based

medicine but on individualized, customized medicine. How to

treat specific conditions and diseases uniquely to each individual

patient. Like I heard Dr Portnoy say two years ago.

The exhibit hall was somewhat smaller this year. One pointed out

to me that the huge big-pharma exhibits (some on 40x50 foot

floor space and 20+ feet high!) were slightly less in number but

the number of booths with environmental management products

and services was up. That was seen as a positive sign.

The President Elect, Dana Wallace, in the Conference Newsletter

states the importance of the Joint Task Force on Practice

Parameters. One of which is developing home assessments.

Yes, the focus in on asthma and allergy. But - and you will

appreciate this Sharon - the interests are not limited to only

allergic responses and asthma triggers.

There are other initiatives and programs with ACAAI moving in

the direction beyond evidence-only and its categorical imperative

to discard the non-typical and less-understood people to the

garbage pail of life. Several other medical organizations, non-

profits, and public health entities are also active. But it's still a

long, tough road.

As many of you know, I consistently preach the principle of hope -

but realistic hope based on facts, not false hope based on " silver

bullet " remedies preached by " silver tongued " sales pitches.

I don't want any of you to think that ACAAI or any other

organization, including IAQA, will suddenly change the world so

that our concerns and needs will be finally recognized and taken

care of. Far from it. But it isn't entirely hopeless either. The

developing trend is not against us, but for us. In the meantime we

continue as we have with the dream that the future suffering of

others will be treatable and perhaps preventable.

I'll end with a comment, and how it ties in with what I've just said,

on the recent push-back to calls for action.

TEAMWORK.

We don't all have the same talents and capabilities. Go back and

read the recent posts by Ginny and Sharon. Let those who are

activists be activists. Let those who need help take what help is

available. Let those who can contribute do so in the way they best

know how. It will take us all working together as a team to make a

difference, each doing or taking as needed. But we must support,

not turn on, each other.

I'm able to be very active now, but I continue to take great

comfort and pride in hearing how each of you are fighting to find a

better, more healthful life and when we support each other, each

in our own way. Some with facts, some with studies, some with

personal experiences. Sometimes it's as simple as Janet

responding with two or three words when she is able. Or

Jeannine despite her vision and cognitive fog problems causing

misspelled words. If only misspelled words were our greatest

issues.

Some of you can do " nothing more " than receive help. But that is

just as important because not only are you being helped but we

learn from you. Speaking of learning, several of you do " nothing

more " than research and research and research some more for

information and studies. " Nothing more?! " That is so valuable to

all of us because you find what my professional colleagues don't.

None of the above is " Nothing more. " That's huge! Keep it up! All

of it.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Ginny,

You write, " The workplaces are not investigated as they are supposed to

be. "

That statement would depend on your perspective. If you are one who

wants

to avoid financial liability from illnesses caused by , then

you would also be one who thinks the buildings are being investigated

just

fine. You would also think that DC is doing a stellar job...of turning a

blind eye to a national disgrace in US public health policy.

While the CIAQ is working to change things, the games continue to play

out

here in the real world.

National Apartment Association submitting amicus briefs citing to the

US

Chamber's fraudulent " Scientific View " that cites false authorship of

being

written by a physician...in a litigation involving two dead infants?

And Emil Bardana being held out as a physician that young allergists

should emulate while he professionally denies causation of illness, that

causes

the need for more Singulair to be purchased when people do not know to

get

away from what ails them? And gee, the makers of Singulair sponsor his

Gold

Headed Cane award?

Seven San Diego judges and justices refusing to acknowledge Kelman has

been committing perjury for four years as to why I would have malice for

him,

and using this criminal perjury to prove that I maliciously accused him

of

one who would commit criminal perjury with my word " altered " ?

NOPE! I live in the United States of America. This does not fly in my

book.

Kelman has a problem. It is very bad when one who has served as an

expert

witness for the DOJ and has authored a policy paper for the US Chamber

of

Commerce commits criminal perjury to establish a false theme for

malice..and seven judges and justices (and the Ca State Bar) turn a blind

eye to the

uncontroverted evidence of Kelman's perjury.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Good comments! I have a question for the insurance company trolls who are

hiding in this group: Why do you think it's okay for you to kill people by

lying about the health effects of toxic mold? There are laws against murder.

________________________________

From: ginloi <ginloi@...>

Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 12:48:41 PM

Subject: [] Re: ACAAI, Dr.Bardana, US Chamber, PACs, Insurance,

Pharm...

Sharon - I can tell you after 30 years teaching in a large city with many

problems and two degrees in education, that " smart " has many faces. I am not

particularly smart, but I work very hard, and use many " channels " to learn, like

taping classes, etc., and yet a B is a good mark for me.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the kind words; it is so easy for people to become discouraged when

those who are charged with their care turn their backs.

It is symtomatic of the long, slow, slide into corruption that our many of our

professions have taken. When things were good and the economy was better,

people were not paying attention.

While we are at war, everything 'we' do will help some poor soldier with Gulf

War Illness and the fight will never have been more fierce. It is a " collateral "

struggle.

There are vaccine troubles, and bacteria toxins and mycotoxin issues which many

industries have been dealing with on a grand scale and who have not stepped up.

Agribusiness and Veternary Medicine have a wealth of information and I don't

hear anyone stepping up to the plate. NIMBY. Not In My Back Yard.

Today in France the OB-GYNS are on strike because their " assurance " - insurance

is not fully covering claims against them. These docs are out on the streets.

People are paying attention. It is full court press when there is a strike of

any kind in that country, and interesting that the docs have taken on the

insurance companies. Think docs will ever get to a point where they challenge

the insurers as a block? In this country? In this century?

For those who read the language find the Figaro.

>

> Ginny & Sharon,

>

> First, this is not an apology for Bardana, ACAAI, the Chamber or

> anyone else associated with their travesty.

>

> Second, I was at the ACAAI conference but refused to attend the

> award ceremony.

>

> Third, do not condemn the entire ACAAI (www.acaai.org),

> especially the up-and-comers, based on what the older regime

> recognizes and honors. Membership is down and the movement

> for change appears to be coming from a younger group, not

> those who honor the likes of Bardana.

>

> Fourth, Ginny, I totally agree with your response to Sharon. We

> are all different with different abilities and strengths. Don't let the

> " weakness " (as defined by others) stop the rest of our

> contributions.

>

> Sharon, you asked last week (or so) that I inform the group of

> some of the integration of good efforts which are occurring. To do

> so requires at least a 50 minute presentation, which I've given to

> several groups over the last six months. So this will be a vastly

> shortened version specific to ACAAI (www.acaai.org).

>

> November 2007: ACAAI had a full day, pre-conference workshop

> on building science for physicians. This is what woke me up to a

> new movement in (part of) the medical community. An IAQA staff

> member and I attended and we took it to the Board. There is now

> a Home Health committee actively working on issues which

> connect people with buildings and medicine.

>

> AAAAI, the academic research sister to the ACAAI, is incredibly

> conservative. However, for the past two years they have had a

> presentation by some of the ACAAI presenters (above) on

> building science and effects of buildings on people. They have

> been well attended by an international audience. a Bloom, by

> the way, was one of the attendees. This is but one example of the

> level of interest and attendance for these events.

>

> ACAAI last week in Miami:

> A building science / medical panel was presented. Jeff May was

> one of the panelists. I wasn't able to attend but during my booth

> duty for IAQA there were a number of attendees who commented

> enthusiastically and expressed an interest in more like it.

>

> Interest at the IAQA booth was brisk, and more so than the past

> two years. Demographics was interesting. Elderly physicians

> stopped by to say they used to do home assessments and how

> essential it was for proper diagnosis and treatment. The very

> young were interested. As were those from at least a dozen other

> countries. Upper middle-aged men in power were the least

> interested.

>

> (BTW, at a recent CDC conference those in charge were older

> men with few women. But many of the presentations were by

> young men and women, mostly women. And they will be a force

> to be reckoned with!)

>

> Although the Presidents of ACAAI since Jay Portnoy haven't been

> enthusiastic about environmental issues the trend is, and the

> upcoming President (after this year) seems to be.

>

> Dr Portnoy previously emphasized the importance of patient

> satisfaction over evidence-only satisfaction. Evidence-only

> medicine is where the evidence comes first and the patient must

> fit the evidence. If they don't they are referred to others and/or

> labeled " psychogenic. " The deceitful arrogance of " evidence-only "

> is that everyone already knows all there is to know about

> everything. Therefore the evidence is not only first but only. If a

> patient disagrees or doesn't fit the evidence then they are, by

> default, at fault. We all know and many have experienced the

> obscenity of that.

>

> Evidenced-based medicine, as I've seen it explained in more than

> one presentation, is where the patient comes first and evidence is

> sought which best fits diagnosing and successfully treating the

> patient. How novel!

>

> This year I attended several ACAAI presentations where the

> crystal clear EVIDENCE (including double-blinded controls, etc)

> was that there is no one size fits all; but rather one size fits none.

> The emphasis was on not only legitimate evidence-based

> medicine but on individualized, customized medicine. How to

> treat specific conditions and diseases uniquely to each individual

> patient. Like I heard Dr Portnoy say two years ago.

>

> The exhibit hall was somewhat smaller this year. One pointed out

> to me that the huge big-pharma exhibits (some on 40x50 foot

> floor space and 20+ feet high!) were slightly less in number but

> the number of booths with environmental management products

> and services was up. That was seen as a positive sign.

>

> The President Elect, Dana Wallace, in the Conference Newsletter

> states the importance of the Joint Task Force on Practice

> Parameters. One of which is developing home assessments.

> Yes, the focus in on asthma and allergy. But - and you will

> appreciate this Sharon - the interests are not limited to only

> allergic responses and asthma triggers.

>

> There are other initiatives and programs with ACAAI moving in

> the direction beyond evidence-only and its categorical imperative

> to discard the non-typical and less-understood people to the

> garbage pail of life. Several other medical organizations, non-

> profits, and public health entities are also active. But it's still a

> long, tough road.

>

> As many of you know, I consistently preach the principle of hope -

> but realistic hope based on facts, not false hope based on " silver

> bullet " remedies preached by " silver tongued " sales pitches.

>

> I don't want any of you to think that ACAAI or any other

> organization, including IAQA, will suddenly change the world so

> that our concerns and needs will be finally recognized and taken

> care of. Far from it. But it isn't entirely hopeless either. The

> developing trend is not against us, but for us. In the meantime we

> continue as we have with the dream that the future suffering of

> others will be treatable and perhaps preventable.

>

> I'll end with a comment, and how it ties in with what I've just said,

> on the recent push-back to calls for action.

>

> TEAMWORK.

>

> We don't all have the same talents and capabilities. Go back and

> read the recent posts by Ginny and Sharon. Let those who are

> activists be activists. Let those who need help take what help is

> available. Let those who can contribute do so in the way they best

> know how. It will take us all working together as a team to make a

> difference, each doing or taking as needed. But we must support,

> not turn on, each other.

>

> I'm able to be very active now, but I continue to take great

> comfort and pride in hearing how each of you are fighting to find a

> better, more healthful life and when we support each other, each

> in our own way. Some with facts, some with studies, some with

> personal experiences. Sometimes it's as simple as Janet

> responding with two or three words when she is able. Or

> Jeannine despite her vision and cognitive fog problems causing

> misspelled words. If only misspelled words were our greatest

> issues.

>

> Some of you can do " nothing more " than receive help. But that is

> just as important because not only are you being helped but we

> learn from you. Speaking of learning, several of you do " nothing

> more " than research and research and research some more for

> information and studies. " Nothing more?! " That is so valuable to

> all of us because you find what my professional colleagues don't.

>

> None of the above is " Nothing more. " That's huge! Keep it up! All

> of it.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> -----

> Ginny,

>

> You write, " The workplaces are not investigated as they are supposed to

> be. "

>

> That statement would depend on your perspective. If you are one who

> wants

> to avoid financial liability from illnesses caused by , then

> you would also be one who thinks the buildings are being investigated

> just

> fine. You would also think that DC is doing a stellar job...of turning a

> blind eye to a national disgrace in US public health policy.

>

> While the CIAQ is working to change things, the games continue to play

> out

> here in the real world.

>

> National Apartment Association submitting amicus briefs citing to the

> US

> Chamber's fraudulent " Scientific View " that cites false authorship of

> being

> written by a physician...in a litigation involving two dead infants?

>

> And Emil Bardana being held out as a physician that young allergists

> should emulate while he professionally denies causation of illness, that

> causes

> the need for more Singulair to be purchased when people do not know to

> get

> away from what ails them? And gee, the makers of Singulair sponsor his

> Gold

> Headed Cane award?

>

> Seven San Diego judges and justices refusing to acknowledge Kelman has

> been committing perjury for four years as to why I would have malice for

> him,

> and using this criminal perjury to prove that I maliciously accused him

> of

> one who would commit criminal perjury with my word " altered " ?

>

> NOPE! I live in the United States of America. This does not fly in my

> book.

>

> Kelman has a problem. It is very bad when one who has served as an

> expert

> witness for the DOJ and has authored a policy paper for the US Chamber

> of

> Commerce commits criminal perjury to establish a false theme for

> malice..and seven judges and justices (and the Ca State Bar) turn a blind

> eye to the

> uncontroverted evidence of Kelman's perjury.

>

> Sharon

>

>

[Guest guest]

The strike (demonstration) I mentioned at the end of the last post (not up yet)

is a very complicated case involved in " wrongful birth " and prenatal diagnosis

and screening, which is very " off-topic " but that said, the docs are raising the

issue in a vociferous manner.

At least they have the courage to get " out there " and be heard, and not behave

like sheep. And, someone is listening to them.

>

> Thanks for the kind words; it is so easy for people to become discouraged when

those who are charged with their care turn their backs.

>

> It is symtomatic of the long, slow, slide into corruption that our many of our

professions have taken. When things were good and the economy was better,

people were not paying attention.

>

[Guest guest]

Carl,

We are almost always of like mind. But not on this one. NO. I am not

willing to wait a generation and expect change. Nobody goes to medical school

with the intent that they are going to set policy to screw the sick. It is

a gradual process that occurs as young doctors become jaded and turn into

old evil bananas as they pay back their college loans and raise their own

families. Those that are willing to compromise their values will always have

the financial support of those entities more concerned with generating

profits from medicine than curing the sick. Money backing a school of thought

in medicine will always be a powerful advisary. It is the nature of the

beast that will not be cured in one generation of physicians. .

This war between allergists and environmental physicians has been waging

for over 30 years. If you saw the movie, The Tomato Effect, several of the

environmental physicians spoke of the matter.

I am bone tired from watching lives be unnecessarily destroyed over this

issue for the sake of fun and profit. It is REAL simple to understand where

the problem lays. Washington DC needs to get off their chairs that WE pay

for them to sit in, and shut down the deceit NOW. I could write a book

" Six Degrees to Tom Donahue " . And it would not be just of the Republican

side of the isle.

_http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=U.S._Chamber_of_Commerce_

(http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=U.S._Chamber_of_Commerce)

In a message dated 11/16/2009 12:11:48 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

grimes@... writes:

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Sharon. Yes, the good 'ol boys and money are still in

charge. But it appears there are new ones coming up. As " they "

say, it takes a generation to make significant changes because

we have to wait for those in power to retire or die off, then those

with new ideas and attitudes can take control. But only if there are

people with new ideas and attitudes pushing to change. So that's

our job.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Carl,

That was beautifully written and absolutely correct. We HAVE made

progress

over the past few years. We have the ear of the Federal government on

where to advance the health science. But that takes too much time for my

taste. People are sick today. All it would take is to tell the physicians of

America to consider the indoor environment and ask questions about it

when

people exhibit cetain symptoms.

Awarding physicians in a fanfare presentation (sponsored by a

pharmaceutical company) such as Dr. Emil, who has made a handsome

living denying the

indoor environment causes illness, is not a good message to send to

young

allergists. Over the years, I have seen him referred to as " Evil Banana "

from

injured workers in the Northwest.

Jay Portnoy, you and Jeff giving presenations IS a good message.

But look at it from a marketing standpoint. It is STILL the good ole boys

patting each other on the back for the pompous and pious

positions...with

Singulair profiting from people being left in the dark (and in the mold).

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

I'm sorry if I gave the impression we should just wait. I was

describing why the slowness is usually so slow. Even under the

best of events MAJOR change usually takes a generation. What I

evidently missed was the emphasis that if we aren't active NOW

then the harm continues for an extra generation.

But you are right that this is a different situation because of the

intentional and well financed efforts to prevent change.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Carl,

We are almost always of like mind. But not on this one. NO. I am not

willing to wait a generation and expect change. Nobody goes to medical

school

with the intent that they are going to set policy to screw the sick. It is

a gradual process that occurs as young doctors become jaded and turn

into

old evil bananas as they pay back their college loans and raise their own

families. Those that are willing to compromise their values will always

have

the financial support of those entities more concerned with generating

profits from medicine than curing the sick. Money backing a school of

thought

in medicine will always be a powerful advisary. It is the nature of the

beast that will not be cured in one generation of physicians. .

This war between allergists and environmental physicians has been

waging

for over 30 years. If you saw the movie, The Tomato Effect, several of the

environmental physicians spoke of the matter.

I am bone tired from watching lives be unnecessarily destroyed over this

issue for the sake of fun and profit. It is REAL simple to understand

where

the problem lays. Washington DC needs to get off their chairs that WE

pay

for them to sit in, and shut down the deceit NOW. I could write a book

" Six Degrees to Tom Donahue " . And it would not be just of the

Republican

side of the isle.

_ http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=U.S._Chamber_

of_Commerce_

( http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=U.S._Chamber_

of_Commerce)

[Guest guest]

Carl,

Second the motion on the research because the truth is already out there to be

found by the diligent. Evidence already shows us that individual differences are

normal within the population and it is medicine which insists upon marginalizing

those which don't fit current parameters such as fixing the patient in a fifteen

minute visit.

I was shocked when I learned that half of the population is genetically

incompatible with standard drugs on the market today.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1208-02.htm

I was shocked when I learned recently that women respond with twice the immune

reactivity to vaccines as men - yet receive the same dose and the same adjuvants

to increase responses. And, of course, adjuvants may have different effects

upon recipients which are less predictable than immune response to antigens

alone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/opinion/28klein.html?_r=2 & ref=opinion

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/168/22/2405

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12660567

Obviously, gender and genetics are certainly something which can easily be

identified and differentially addressed. Oh, yes, it might mean a few million

less in profits but right now the tax payer and health insurers are paying for

adverse reactions to medications which equal the outlay for them.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/406716

Evidence based medicine may not hold all the answers but if we are to accept

that as the current norm, we'd better hold the profession responsible for

attending to all the evidence.

Additionally, women experience discrimination in medicine far beyond the basic

profit motives which are also abusive towards male patients. As noted in the

Times editorial above, why are women subjected to overdosing in vaccinations?

Why are they subjected to under-diagnosis of cardiac disease; to overdosing in

routine drug prescriptions and, of course, to toxic exposures for which the

'norms' are based upon observed health impacts in healthy adult males?

Womens' rights groups need to be inundated with our complaints since most

concentrate upon job discrimination and sexual violence. Worthy causes indeed

but our medical issues go far beyond reproductive rights. Tell them that.

Barb R

[Guest guest]

Well said, Barb R. And thanks for the links to the additional info.

About 5 years ago, if I remember right, one of the major

pharmaceuticals announced they had plans to produce 3

versions of each drug. Why? Because none - that's right, zero,

none - of even their best drugs was effective on more than 40%

of the population. Many were effective on less than 25%. Their

new program was to find three genetic pattens to cover most of

the population and produce drugs customized for each pattern. I

haven't heard anything since. I have the article saved somewhere

on an archival hard drive (I hope!)

When I read about science in general the attitude is one of

curiosity by searching for the " rare possibility " which may lead to

discovery. When it comes to medicine, especially mold and damp

buildings, the attitude is one of blindness to anything other than

the bulge of the Bell curve. The one area of discovery which will

do the most good for people is subverted by the priesthood of

profit by, as Sharon rightly pointed out, the manufacturing of

doubt.

You're right that the science is sufficient to justify action. We

need the will and a way of getting attention that doesn't

automatically turn off the opposition or produce more fodder for

creating doubt.

I'm not against aggressive action. Just action with heat for the

sake of feeling good about finally getting it out of our system and

without the realization of the unintended consequences of making

it harder for ourselves.

The heart rending but simple stories of people who post here are

the most powerful. HOW we get them to those in authority is key.

I really like the Web site collection idea.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Carl,

Second the motion on the research because the truth is already out there

to be found by the diligent. Evidence already shows us that individual

differences are normal within the population and it is medicine which

insists upon marginalizing those which don't fit current parameters such

as fixing the patient in a fifteen minute visit.

I was shocked when I learned that half of the population is genetically

incompatible with standard drugs on the market today.

http://www.commondr eams.org/headlines03/1208-02.htm

I was shocked when I learned recently that women respond with twice

the immune reactivity to vaccines as men - yet receive the same dose and

the same adjuvants to increase responses. And, of course, adjuvants may

have different effects upon recipients which are less predictable than

immune response to antigens alone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/opinion/28klein.html?

_r=2 & ref=opinion

http://archinte. ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/168/22/2405

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ pubmed/12660567

Obviously, gender and genetics are certainly something which can easily

be identified and differentially addressed. Oh, yes, it might mean a few

million less in profits but right now the tax payer and health insurers are

paying for adverse reactions to medications which equal the outlay for

them.

http://www.medscape .com/viewarticle/406716

Evidence based medicine may not hold all the answers but if we are to

accept that as the current norm, we'd better hold the profession

responsible for attending to all the evidence.

Additionally, women experience discrimination in medicine far beyond

the basic profit motives which are also abusive towards male patients. As

noted in the Times editorial above, why are women subjected to

overdosing in vaccinations? Why are they subjected to under-diagnosis

of cardiac disease; to overdosing in routine drug prescriptions and, of

course, to toxic exposures for which the 'norms' are based upon observed

health impacts in healthy adult males?

Womens' rights groups need to be inundated with our complaints since

most concentrate upon job discrimination and sexual violence. Worthy

causes indeed but our medical issues go far beyond reproductive rights.

Tell them that.

Barb R

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[Guest guest]

Another idea would be a book of short stories with several of our mold stories

included. It would be great if such a book would include solutions that were

helpful to each individual or family and then a chapter at the end that sums up

the solutions to make it easy for new moldies to benefit from all of the advice

and experience of the Sickbuildings Group.

________________________________

From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 5:43:55 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: ACAAI, Dr.Bardana, US Chamber, PACs, Insurance,

Pharm...

Well said, Barb R. And thanks for the links to the additional info.

About 5 years ago, if I remember right, one of the major

pharmaceuticals announced they had plans to produce 3

versions of each drug. Why? Because none - that's right, zero,

none - of even their best drugs was effective on more than 40%

of the population. Many were effective on less than 25%. Their

new program was to find three genetic pattens to cover most of

the population and produce drugs customized for each pattern. I

haven't heard anything since. I have the article saved somewhere

on an archival hard drive (I hope!)

[Guest guest]

Barb,

That was excellent writing. You should tweak it abit for a broader

audience and publish it to the web somewhere.

Sharon

In a message dated 11/17/2009 3:34:24 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

brianc8452@... writes:

Another idea would be a book of short stories with several of our mold

stories included. It would be great if such a book would include solutions

that were helpful to each individual or family and then a chapter at the end

that sums up the solutions to make it easy for new moldies to benefit from

all of the advice and experience of the Sickbuildings Group.

________________________________

From: Carl E. Grimes <_grimes@..._ (mailto:grimes@...) >

_@ic_ (mailto: )

Sent: Mon, November 16, 2009 5:43:55 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: ACAAI, Dr.Bardana, US Chamber, PACs,

Insurance, Pharm...

Well said, Barb R. And thanks for the links to the additional info.

About 5 years ago, if I remember right, one of the major

pharmaceuticals announced they had plans to produce 3

versions of each drug. Why? Because none - that's right, zero,

none - of even their best drugs was effective on more than 40%

of the population. Many were effective on less than 25%. Their

new program was to find three genetic pattens to cover most of

the population and produce drugs customized for each pattern. I

haven't heard anything since. I have the article saved somewhere

on an archival hard drive (I hope!)

Sharon Noonan Kramer