Re: cross contamination please help

[Guest guest]

Sorry for my delay in getting back to you. I had to think through your

situation. The answers to our problems are never obvious. We all discover the

things that we reacting to, by a process of elimination. We remove things from

our environment, or remediate possible mold, then we sit back for a few weeks,

to see if we feel any better. If we do feel better, then we have done the

correct thing. If we don't feel better, we try removing, or remediating,

something else, until we feel an improvement.

 

If, after all of our efforts, we continue to feel worse and worse, then WE  MUST

RUN!!!!!!!!!!! Our body has a limited capacity for recovery. Nobody knows what

that " limit " is. It may be different, for different people. For my 92 year old

father, who died last year, from mold exposure, HIS limit was one hour a day of

mold exposure, seven days a week, for 2 years. That's the amount of time he

spent in his car, which was the source of HIS mold exposure. When we reach our

own limit - WE DIE!  This is why we have to RUN, BEFORE we reach our limit.

 

Those people who say that they will stay in an environment that is making them

sick, TO FIGHT THE ENEMY [MOLD], are signing their own death warrant. At very

least, they will be " disabled " , for the rest of their lives, even when they

eventually leave their moldy environment. Yes, it is very Un-American to run

away from a fight. All of your friends and relatives will call you a coward, and

a sissy, and a crazy person. But, you will still be ALIVE to hear them say that.

 

Here are my thoughts, on your situation.

 

I would guess that you DID NOT " cross-contaminate " your sister's house (just my

opinion). MY guess is that your sister's house ALWAYS had a low level of mold

infestation, which did not bother you, UNTIL your body was hypersensitized by

the MASSIVE mold exposure, from your own condo. That MASSIVE mold exposure has

left you, and myself, and every other mold victim in this world, with the

capacity to react to the tiniest mold sources in EVERY PLACE IN THE WORLD. Since

I have tested my hypothesis, many times, since my own original massive mold

exposure, 14 years ago, I assume that the reactivity NEVER GOES AWAY.

 

In addition to life-long reactivity to mold, most of us begin reacting to

chemicals, that we had never reacted to, before. This chemical reactivity can

make us as sick, or sicker, than our reactivity to mold. My own hyper-reactivity

to " chemical off-gassing " , from newly-manufactured electronics, prevents me from

ever owning any new T.V.'s, DVD's, or Computers. My guess is, that your sister's

house has some new electronics in it, and you are reacting to them, in addition

to the mold in her house.

 

This year marks the 111th anniversary of H.G. Wells publishing his science

fiction novel, " War of the Worlds " . In that novel, aliens from the planet Mars,

land on Earth, and begin conquering our planet. When all seems lost, amazingly

the aliens begin dying, on their own. Upon examination, it is discovered that

they have been killed by the common microbial bacteria, that Earthlings have

built up an immunity to, over millions of years, but the Martians have no

immunity to.

 

Take a good long look in the mirror. For purposes of understanding the illness

that you and I will have, for the rest of our life, WE ARE THE

MARTIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

God Bless,

Joe

............................................................................

I posted in about the possibility of cross contamination and was

wondering if you could help me.

Last night we had a christmas party over my sisters house (which is the house in

question) and out of the dozen or so people that were here 3 (including myself)

complained of severe headaches. I took it upon myself to give the other two

individuals an OTC allergy medication and our headaches went away withing 20

minutes. I noticed there were a couple of other people sneezing and asked if

they thought they were coming down with a cold and they said they didnt think so

and couldnt explain why they were sneezing.

Like I said in my post I only brought a few things to my sisters house and none

of which were wet, had visible mold on them or even smelled musty which I

promptely removed 24 hours after I bringing them into the house.

I am so scared that I've contaminated my sisters house that I dont know what to

do. I've already made an appointment for an industrial hygienist to come to come

out first thing Monday morning but even than its going to take 7-10 days for the

results to come back.

Can you please give me some sort of an idea as to whether my sisters hours is

contaminated?

Thank you for your time

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> I posted in about the possibility of cross contamination and was

wondering if you could help me.

>

> Last night we had a christmas party over my sisters house (which is the house

in question) and out of the dozen or so people that were here 3 (including

myself) complained of severe headaches. I took it upon myself to give the other

two individuals an OTC allergy medication and our headaches went away withing 20

minutes. I noticed there were a couple of other people sneezing and asked if

they thought they were coming down with a cold and they said they didnt think so

and couldnt explain why they were sneezing.

>

> Like I said in my post I only brought a few things to my sisters house and

none of which were wet, had visible mold on them or even smelled musty which I

promptely removed 24 hours after I bringing them into the house.

>

> I am so scared that I've contaminated my sisters house that I dont know what

to do. I've already made an appointment for an industrial hygienist to come to

come out first thing Monday morning but even than its going to take 7-10 days

for the results to come back.

>

> Can you please give me some sort of an idea as to whether my sisters hours is

contaminated?

>

> Thank you for your time

I've talked before about outdoor mold and the effect that it has on people.

Sometimes it's bad enough that even people who seem not to have problems with

mold at all are affected by it.

Conceivably there could have been a stray " plume " of mold that hit your sister's

house at that time. Where does she live?

That being said, sneezing and headaches that go away with allergy medication

sounds to me like some kind of allergy rather than toxicity issue. If that's

the case, there's no reason to worry at all.

Cross-contamination based on bringing in and then removing a few of even the

worst objects on the planet only would be a problem if the person was a)

already super-sensitized to mold and already was pursuing pretty extreme

avoidance.

I know only a few people who fall into that category. I'm one of them. And

even so, the type of cross-contamination that you describe would be only a minor

issue for me for a limited period of time (no more than a few days).

So the idea that you've cross-contaminated your sister's house seems to me that

it should be the last thing on your mind.

Your concerns about your own home suggest that it is an important issue for you

though.

These are just my own feelings based on my own observations and experiences,

obviously. Take them for what you will.

Best,

[Guest guest]

Thank you ,

Im not concerned about the townhouse because if worst comes to worst I'll let

the bank have it.

The inspector I hired completely missed not one but two major water leaks in the

crawl space, one was a sewage leak that had been thought to be coming from the

sprinkling system 3 months prior to me reporting it and the HOA digging out a 20

foot piece of cast iron pipe to stop the leak.When the HOA finally did have the

crawlspace remediated and I was still getting sick they told me they had done

all they could and if I wanted anymore testing done I would have to pay for it

myself which I did at the tune of $850.00.

Once they made me pay out of my own pocket for their negligence was when I

decided to contact an attorney. From the very beginning I took pictures of

EVERYTHING and only communicated through email. I knew if worst came to worst I

was going to need ever single piece of evidence I could and now that I have an

attorney the HOA is bending over backwards to resolve the problem.

As I sit here at my sisters computer typing this response my eyes burn I have a

splitting headache and my skin itches but when I go outside my symptoms subside

somewhat which makes me wonder if I did indeed contaminate my sisters house.

Everyone I've talked to and believe me I've talked to allot of people about the

possibility of cross contamination seem to pretty much agree that the it's not

likely to happen. Im still going to have an Industrial Hygienist come by

tomorrow to take more air samples. When it comes to my sisters home I'd rather

be safe than sorry.

Dave

> >

> >

> > I posted in about the possibility of cross contamination and

was wondering if you could help me.

> >

> > Last night we had a christmas party over my sisters house (which is the

house in question) and out of the dozen or so people that were here 3 (including

myself) complained of severe headaches. I took it upon myself to give the other

two individuals an OTC allergy medication and our headaches went away withing 20

minutes. I noticed there were a couple of other people sneezing and asked if

they thought they were coming down with a cold and they said they didnt think so

and couldnt explain why they were sneezing.

> >

> > Like I said in my post I only brought a few things to my sisters house and

none of which were wet, had visible mold on them or even smelled musty which I

promptely removed 24 hours after I bringing them into the house.

> >

> > I am so scared that I've contaminated my sisters house that I dont know what

to do. I've already made an appointment for an industrial hygienist to come to

come out first thing Monday morning but even than its going to take 7-10 days

for the results to come back.

> >

> > Can you please give me some sort of an idea as to whether my sisters hours

is contaminated?

> >

> > Thank you for your time

>

>

> I've talked before about outdoor mold and the effect that it has on people.

Sometimes it's bad enough that even people who seem not to have problems with

mold at all are affected by it.

>

> Conceivably there could have been a stray " plume " of mold that hit your

sister's house at that time. Where does she live?

>

> That being said, sneezing and headaches that go away with allergy medication

sounds to me like some kind of allergy rather than toxicity issue. If that's

the case, there's no reason to worry at all.

>

> Cross-contamination based on bringing in and then removing a few of even the

worst objects on the planet only would be a problem if the person was a)

already super-sensitized to mold and already was pursuing pretty extreme

avoidance.

>

> I know only a few people who fall into that category. I'm one of them. And

even so, the type of cross-contamination that you describe would be only a minor

issue for me for a limited period of time (no more than a few days).

>

> So the idea that you've cross-contaminated your sister's house seems to me

that it should be the last thing on your mind.

>

> Your concerns about your own home suggest that it is an important issue for

you though.

>

> These are just my own feelings based on my own observations and experiences,

obviously. Take them for what you will.

>

> Best,

>

[Guest guest]

slayadragon@...> wrote:

> That being said, sneezing and headaches that go away with allergy medication

sounds to me like some kind of allergy rather than toxicity issue. If that's

the case, there's no reason to worry at all.

do you have some paper you can site that shows that haveing a allergy is

just nothing at all to worry about ? no systemic responces where your on cells

might poison you,just nothing to worry about at all.

no damage to the immune system with chronic exposure or high dose exposure to

mold even if it's not produceing mycotoxins.

PS, sneezing is a defence mechanism and it doesn't just happen with these

harmless allergies to mold you talk about.

[Guest guest]

You can't tell if a house is contaminated if they only do air samples.

________________________________

From: Tug <tug_slug@...>

Sent: Sun, December 27, 2009 7:43:08 PM

Subject: [] Re: cross contamination please help

Thank you ,

Im not concerned about the townhouse because if worst comes to worst I'll let

the bank have it.

The inspector I hired completely missed not one but two major water leaks in the

crawl space, one was a sewage leak that had been thought to be coming from the

sprinkling system 3 months prior to me reporting it and the HOA digging out a 20

foot piece of cast iron pipe to stop the leak.When the HOA finally did have the

crawlspace remediated and I was still getting sick they told me they had done

all they could and if I wanted anymore testing done I would have to pay for it

myself which I did at the tune of $850.00.

Once they made me pay out of my own pocket for their negligence was when I

decided to contact an attorney. From the very beginning I took pictures of

EVERYTHING and only communicated through email. I knew if worst came to worst I

was going to need ever single piece of evidence I could and now that I have an

attorney the HOA is bending over backwards to resolve the problem.

As I sit here at my sisters computer typing this response my eyes burn I have a

splitting headache and my skin itches but when I go outside my symptoms subside

somewhat which makes me wonder if I did indeed contaminate my sisters house.

Everyone I've talked to and believe me I've talked to allot of people about the

possibility of cross contamination seem to pretty much agree that the it's not

likely to happen. Im still going to have an Industrial Hygienist come by

tomorrow to take more air samples. When it comes to my sisters home I'd rather

be safe than sorry.

Dave

[Guest guest]

Dave,

What are you going to have the hygienist test, air or surfaces?

If you did cross contaminate your sister's house from your house

the spores will be transported on your clothes, skin and hair. It

will settle out of the air onto surfaces, not staying in the air.

Air samples will likely tell you nothing of value.

You will need to know if what is found in your sisters' place is

the same as what was in yours. To do that you will need to compare

species, not just genus. For example, if Aspergillus fumigatus is

found in yours but Aspergillus flavus is found in your sisters,

then you didn't cross contaminate. But if you only analyze to

genus then you will only see Aspergillus in both. That's like

finding " felines " in both but in fact yours was a lion and in your

sister's it was a house cat. Big difference!

Also, if analysis is by microscopy instead of culturing, the

results will be reported as " Pen/Asp-type. " That means they can't

tell the difference between Aspergillus genus and Penicillium

genus, let alone species! That's like not telling the difference

between felines and birds or felines and dogs, or any other

animal.

Finally, analyzing to species requires culturing, not just " spore

traps " by microscopy. Culturing takes several days for the spores

to germinate and grow into a colony. If you get results in a

couple of days or less then it wasn't analyzed by culturing and

the lab results won't tell you what you need to know.

I don't want you to waste your money on testing which won't answer

the question you desperately need the answer to.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

On Sun Dec 27 21:43:08 CST 2009, Tug <tug_slug@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Thank you ,

>

> Im not concerned about the townhouse because if worst comes to

> worst I'll let the bank have it.

>

> The inspector I hired completely missed not one but two major

> water leaks in the crawl space, one was a sewage leak that had

> been thought to be coming from the sprinkling system 3 months

> prior to me reporting it and the HOA digging out a 20 foot piece

> of cast iron pipe to stop the leak.When the HOA finally did have

> the crawlspace remediated and I was still getting sick they told

> me they had done all they could and if I wanted anymore testing

> done I would have to pay for it myself which I did at the tune of

> $850.00. Once they made me pay out of my own pocket for their

> negligence was when I decided to contact an attorney. From the

> very beginning I took pictures of EVERYTHING and only

> communicated through email. I knew if worst came to worst I was

> going to need ever single piece of evidence I could and now that

> I have an attorney the HOA is bending over backwards to resolve

> the problem.

>

> As I sit here at my sisters computer typing this response my eyes

> burn I have a splitting headache and my skin itches but when I

> go outside my symptoms subside somewhat which makes me wonder if

> I did indeed contaminate my sisters house. Everyone I've talked

> to and believe me I've talked to allot of people about the

> possibility of cross contamination seem to pretty much agree

> that the it's not likely to happen. Im still going to have an

> Industrial Hygienist come by tomorrow to take more air samples.

> When it comes to my sisters home I'd rather be safe than sorry.

>

> Dave

>

>

>> > > > I posted in about the possibility of cross

>> contamination and was wondering if you could help me.

>> > > Last night we had a christmas party over my sisters house

>> (which is the house in question) and out of the dozen or so

>> people that were here 3 (including myself) complained of severe

>> headaches. I took it upon myself to give the other two

>> individuals an OTC allergy medication and our headaches went

>> away withing 20 minutes. I noticed there were a couple of other

>> people sneezing and asked if they thought they were coming down

>> with a cold and they said they didnt think so and couldnt

>> explain why they were sneezing.

>> > > Like I said in my post I only brought a few things to my

>> sisters house and none of which were wet, had visible mold on

>> them or even smelled musty which I promptely removed 24 hours

>> after I bringing them into the house.

>> > > I am so scared that I've contaminated my sisters house that

>> I dont know what to do. I've already made an appointment for an

>> industrial hygienist to come to come out first thing Monday

>> morning but even than its going to take 7-10 days for the

>> results to come back.

>> > > Can you please give me some sort of an idea as to whether my

>> sisters hours is contaminated?

>> > > Thank you for your time

>>

>>

>> I've talked before about outdoor mold and the effect that it has

>> on people. Sometimes it's bad enough that even people who seem

>> not to have problems with mold at all are affected by it.

>>

>> Conceivably there could have been a stray " plume " of mold that

>> hit your sister's house at that time. Where does she live?

>>

>> That being said, sneezing and headaches that go away with

>> allergy medication sounds to me like some kind of allergy rather

>> than toxicity issue. If that's the case, there's no reason to

>> worry at all.

>>

>> Cross-contamination based on bringing in and then removing a few

>> of even the worst objects on the planet only would be a problem

>> if the person was a) already super-sensitized to mold and

>> already was pursuing pretty extreme avoidance. I know only a

>> few people who fall into that category. I'm one of them. And

>> even so, the type of cross-contamination that you describe would

>> be only a minor issue for me for a limited period of time (no

>> more than a few days).

>>

>> So the idea that you've cross-contaminated your sister's house

>> seems to me that it should be the last thing on your mind.

>>

>> Your concerns about your own home suggest that it is an

>> important issue for you though.

>>

>> These are just my own feelings based on my own observations and

>> experiences, obviously. Take them for what you will.

>>

>> Best,

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dave, you might want to consider that you may have chemical sensitivity and

could be reacting to a chemical too. yes, cross contamminating your car/truck is

possable and because it's a little area the effects might be quite strong.

theres other things that that someone chemically sensitive can react to in a

car, like those sented air freshners, cleaning products ct. many people assume

that everything they react to is mold or mycotoxins, thats just not true.

as far as your sisters house, because other people were reacting to something

there, and from what you discribed it seems the chance of cross contammination

to the point that it would effect people who have not been sensitized to mold

and it's by products,would be unlikely,and it could be something else all

together. someone could have brought some germs along with them and it was

getting spread around. now over time with you careing these contamminants on

your cloths and if you went to your sisters quite a bit, you could have possably

contamminated her couch or a stuffed chair, that might be more of a problem than

the few belongings you took there than removed unless they were very dusty and

you cleaned them there in that same space. what you might do is avoid both

places for 3 or 4 days than go to your sisters and see if you can locate what is

causeing you to react. now if your chemically sensitive and your sister has

purfumes,

scented candels, is doing laundry useing scented soaps and drier sheeets or even

if she cooks that day, it well greatly hender the possablity that you might

fiqure out based on your reaction if you contamminated some furniture, bed

sheets if you slept there, possably a back porch if your hung your coat there,

ect.

good luck

>

>

>

>

> Thank you ,

>

> Im not concerned about the townhouse because if worst comes to worst I'll let

the bank have it.

>

> The inspector I hired completely missed not one but two major water leaks in

the crawl space, one was a sewage leak that had been thought to be coming from

the sprinkling system 3 months prior to me reporting it and the HOA digging out

a 20 foot piece of cast iron pipe to stop the leak.When the HOA finally did have

the crawlspace remediated and I was still getting sick they told me they had

done all they could and if I wanted anymore testing done I would have to pay for

it myself which I did at the tune of $850.00.

>

> Once they made me pay out of my own pocket for their negligence was when I

decided to contact an attorney. From the very beginning I took pictures of

EVERYTHING and only communicated through email. I knew if worst came to worst I

was going to need ever single piece of evidence I could and now that I have an

attorney the HOA is bending over backwards to resolve the problem.

>

> As I sit here at my sisters computer typing this response my eyes burn I have

a splitting headache and my skin itches but when I go outside my symptoms

subside somewhat which makes me wonder if I did indeed contaminate my sisters

house.

>

> Everyone I've talked to and believe me I've talked to allot of people about

the possibility of cross contamination seem to pretty much agree that the it's

not likely to happen. Im still going to have an Industrial Hygienist come by

tomorrow to take more air samples. When it comes to my sisters home I'd rather

be safe than sorry.

>

> Dave

>

[Guest guest]

>

> As I sit here at my sisters computer typing this response my eyes burn I have

a splitting headache and my skin itches but when I go outside my symptoms

subside somewhat which makes me wonder if I did indeed contaminate my sisters

house.

>

> Everyone I've talked to and believe me I've talked to allot of people about

the possibility of cross contamination seem to pretty much agree that the it's

not likely to happen. Im still going to have an Industrial Hygienist come by

tomorrow to take more air samples. When it comes to my sisters home I'd rather

be safe than sorry.

It sounds like you may be in the midst of what might be called an

" intensification response. "

Especially right after moving out of a bad place, reactivity to toxic mold can

go through the roof. Insanely small amounts of the stuff can be bothersome.

At least some of this seems to be due to detox. If your system is spitting out

more toxins (as it may do when you get clear), it will be less able to tolerate

external ones.

If you stay clear, this reactivity should go down after a while. It might take

a bit of time though.

As far as the cross-contamination goes....

If you brought your possessions to the house, they likely had some spores, spore

fragments and poison dust on them. That stuff might have fallen or rubbed off

on objects in your sister's house.

We're talking TINY bits of stuff here. Imagine how little dust would have

transferred in this way!

It's absolutely not unprecedented for someone in an " intensification response "

to be reactive to this tiny amount of bad stuff. It sounds insane, but a number

of people have experienced it.

It certainly wouldn't come up in any kind of testing though. We're WAY beyond

what those folks would be able to find!

That amount of contamination also would have no effect on anyone who wasn't

already really sick from mold poisoning and recovering. Your sister and her

family without a doubt will be FINE as a result of that kind of exposure, for

instance.

If you think it's bothering you, you could try doing a really thorough cleaning

job to see if it helps.

The other possibility is that your sister's house has a low-level mold problem

already. That wouldn't be surprising, since a really high percentage of homes

do.

Unless it's really substantial though, that wouldn't come up on any tests

either.

I wouldn't bother with the tests if I were you. I got a whole lot of tests when

I first went through this, and it was a big waste of money. Those tests are

expensive!

Obviously if your sister's house is bothering you, it's not going to be the best

place in the world for you to be. But it's hard to find a perfect place. It

might well be the best option for you now.

The important thing is to stay out of buildings like your townhouse that you

know are really bad. So regardless, you're off to a good start.

Again, though, I wouldn't bother with the tests. Having as much money in

reserve as possible is a really good thing for those of us facing this problem.

Best,

[Guest guest]

I have few visitors, but over Christmas, 2 people came, both fragrance free, BUT

had clothes washed w/standard products and dried w/dryer sheets. They sat, for

about 10 minutes, on my wrought iton kitchen chairs--the ones with throw rugs

for seats and pillows in pillow cases for backs. Thank God for that. When they

left, the odor and the chemicals of the laundry products remained, and I had to

wash the fabrics they sat on. If they had sat on my living room furniture, I'd

still be baking soda-ing and vacuuming it!

Ella in shivery cold Tucson

.... consider that you may have chemical sensitivity and could be reacting to a

chemical too. ... what you might do is avoid both places for 3 or 4 days than go

to your sisters and see if you can locate what is causeing you to react. now if

your chemically sensitive and your sister has purfumes,

> scented candels, is doing laundry useing scented soaps and drier sheeets or

even if she cooks that day, it well greatly hender the possablity that you might

fiqure out based on your reaction if you contamminated some furniture, bed

sheets if you slept there, possably a back porch if your hung your coat there,

ect.

[Guest guest]

, are you saying that chemical sensitivity just up and cures itself after a

while? ofcorse only with extreme advoidence, I guessing. I suppose that with a

very short term exposure, no organ damage and no serious immune system effects

that could be possable, ofcorse with a short term/low dose exposure some might

not even get to the point of chemical sensitivity,would they. might depend on

many things, other diseases, overall health,age,ect.

>

> It sounds like you may be in the midst of what might be called an

" intensification response. "

>

> Especially right after moving out of a bad place, reactivity to toxic mold can

go through the roof. Insanely small amounts of the stuff can be bothersome.

>

> At least some of this seems to be due to detox. If your system is spitting

out more toxins (as it may do when you get clear), it will be less able to

tolerate external ones.

>

> If you stay clear, this reactivity should go down after a while. It might

take a bit of time though.

>

> As far as the cross-contamination goes....

>

> If you brought your possessions to the house, they likely had some spores,

spore fragments and poison dust on them. That stuff might have fallen or rubbed

off on objects in your sister's house.

>

> We're talking TINY bits of stuff here. Imagine how little dust would have

transferred in this way!

>

> It's absolutely not unprecedented for someone in an " intensification response "

to be reactive to this tiny amount of bad stuff. It sounds insane, but a number

of people have experienced it.

>

> It certainly wouldn't come up in any kind of testing though. We're WAY beyond

what those folks would be able to find!

>

> That amount of contamination also would have no effect on anyone who wasn't

already really sick from mold poisoning and recovering. Your sister and her

family without a doubt will be FINE as a result of that kind of exposure, for

instance.

>

> If you think it's bothering you, you could try doing a really thorough

cleaning job to see if it helps.

>

> The other possibility is that your sister's house has a low-level mold problem

already. That wouldn't be surprising, since a really high percentage of homes

do.

>

> Unless it's really substantial though, that wouldn't come up on any tests

either.

>

> I wouldn't bother with the tests if I were you. I got a whole lot of tests

when I first went through this, and it was a big waste of money. Those tests are

expensive!

>

> Obviously if your sister's house is bothering you, it's not going to be the

best place in the world for you to be. But it's hard to find a perfect place.

It might well be the best option for you now.

>

> The important thing is to stay out of buildings like your townhouse that you

know are really bad. So regardless, you're off to a good start.

>

> Again, though, I wouldn't bother with the tests. Having as much money in

reserve as possible is a really good thing for those of us facing this problem.

>

> Best,

>

[Guest guest]

yes, a freind stoped by one day, forgeting about the purfume thing and she

grabed a throw blanket and wrapped it around to try and stop my reaction, it

actually lesson a little. after she left I was so in the reactive stage, not

really thinking to great, I opened the windows and proceded to air out the

house. after things mellowed out alittle while later I was still reacting and

was just getting sicker by the minute. it finally dawned on me, " the blanket "

when I picked it up I got another strong dose, I threw it out on the porch.

it's really hard to deal with your space getting contamminated, somethings just

linger for a long time, and you have to deal with it somehow to stop the

effects, I keep blankets on my couches and chairs, just in case.

>

> I have few visitors, but over Christmas, 2 people came, both fragrance free,

BUT had clothes washed w/standard products and dried w/dryer sheets. They sat,

for about 10 minutes, on my wrought iton kitchen chairs--the ones with throw

rugs for seats and pillows in pillow cases for backs. Thank God for that. When

they left, the odor and the chemicals of the laundry products remained, and I

had to wash the fabrics they sat on. If they had sat on my living room

furniture, I'd still be baking soda-ing and vacuuming it!

> Ella in shivery cold Tucson

>

>

[Guest guest]

slayadragon@...> wrote:>At least some of this seems to be due to detox. If your

system is spitting out more toxins (as it may do when you get clear), it will be

less able to tolerate external ones.

>

???????????????????

[Guest guest]

Yes, I think this might be the problem-it happens to me all the time. I first

react to a mold exposure and then after I get rid of the mold or leave the area

all of a sudden everything bothers me. So then I think, oh no, the mold is still

here! But now I've learned that it's my sensitivity that is heightened to a

point where many things bother me-now I know I have MCS so it doesn't surprise

me so much anymore. It is very frustrating though to keep feeling bad after

you've worked so hard to clean up your environment.

It might be time to get rid of things like fabric softener sheets, laundry

detergents, Windex and other cleaners, etc and see how you feel then.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you ,

> >

> > Im not concerned about the townhouse because if worst comes to worst I'll

let the bank have it.

> >

> > The inspector I hired completely missed not one but two major water leaks in

the crawl space, one was a sewage leak that had been thought to be coming from

the sprinkling system 3 months prior to me reporting it and the HOA digging out

a 20 foot piece of cast iron pipe to stop the leak.When the HOA finally did have

the crawlspace remediated and I was still getting sick they told me they had

done all they could and if I wanted anymore testing done I would have to pay for

it myself which I did at the tune of $850.00.

> >

> > Once they made me pay out of my own pocket for their negligence was when I

decided to contact an attorney. From the very beginning I took pictures of

EVERYTHING and only communicated through email. I knew if worst came to worst I

was going to need ever single piece of evidence I could and now that I have an

attorney the HOA is bending over backwards to resolve the problem.

> >

> > As I sit here at my sisters computer typing this response my eyes burn I

have a splitting headache and my skin itches but when I go outside my symptoms

subside somewhat which makes me wonder if I did indeed contaminate my sisters

house.

> >

> > Everyone I've talked to and believe me I've talked to allot of people about

the possibility of cross contamination seem to pretty much agree that the it's

not likely to happen. Im still going to have an Industrial Hygienist come by

tomorrow to take more air samples. When it comes to my sisters home I'd rather

be safe than sorry.

> >

> > Dave

> >

>

[Guest guest]

RE: fabric softener sheets, this past summer I was at my mom's beach

house, and wasps were swarming. A local islander told us that if you

put a fabric softener sheet out on the table it will keep the wasps

away. Maybe those wasps know something most humans don't....these

things are toxic!!

>It might be time to get rid of things like fabric softener sheets,

>laundry detergents, Windex and other cleaners, etc and see how you feel then.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Carl, all I can tell you is the IH came out yesterday and performed 4

air samples. One in the basement, the living room, upstairs master bedroom and

outside. The IH said it would take 7-10 days to get the results. I hope you dont

mind but I sent an email to the IH with your response hopefully they'll be able

to answer my questions.

Im a little concerned that when the results do come back that I'll have a false

sense of security or that I''ll need more testing done to make absolutely sure

that the house is safe. Does this ever come to an end?

>

> Dave,

>

> What are you going to have the hygienist test, air or surfaces?

>

> If you did cross contaminate your sister's house from your house

> the spores will be transported on your clothes, skin and hair. It

> will settle out of the air onto surfaces, not staying in the air.

> Air samples will likely tell you nothing of value.

>

> You will need to know if what is found in your sisters' place is

> the same as what was in yours. To do that you will need to compare

> species, not just genus. For example, if Aspergillus fumigatus is

> found in yours but Aspergillus flavus is found in your sisters,

> then you didn't cross contaminate. But if you only analyze to

> genus then you will only see Aspergillus in both. That's like

> finding " felines " in both but in fact yours was a lion and in your

> sister's it was a house cat. Big difference!

>

> Also, if analysis is by microscopy instead of culturing, the

> results will be reported as " Pen/Asp-type. " That means they can't

> tell the difference between Aspergillus genus and Penicillium

> genus, let alone species! That's like not telling the difference

> between felines and birds or felines and dogs, or any other

> animal.

>

> Finally, analyzing to species requires culturing, not just " spore

> traps " by microscopy. Culturing takes several days for the spores

> to germinate and grow into a colony. If you get results in a

> couple of days or less then it wasn't analyzed by culturing and

> the lab results won't tell you what you need to know.

>

> I don't want you to waste your money on testing which won't answer

> the question you desperately need the answer to.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

I do believe that chemical sensitivity can get worse if you continue to live

with other chemical products around after you've been chemically sensitized from

exposure in a water damaged building.

they are going to keep your system aggervated and reactive to one point or

another.

however I dont believe that it takes a mold exposure to than make your

reactivness flairup causeing other things to bother you more.

I dont think the immune system discriminates like that.

I think it's all about the chemical/toxin involved,the dose and in some cases

the time exposed to that dose. a low dose or a lower consentration of whats

toxic in the dose might not hit me right off the bat like a ton of bricks but

the longer it's getting into my system the more upset my system becomes.

just like mycotoxins can cause different effects based on types,

so can other toxins, but tissue/organ damage and anything that might aggervate

that damage is going to cause the immune system to respond.

total body load is important but I believe that organ damage, severity of organ

damage has to be considered because that alone can make a hudge difference in

how one may react to a toxin exposure.

plus new tissue damage can accure.

inflammation is a responce to tissue damage, chronic inflammation can sometimes

lead to cancer.

I also think that tissue /organ damage to where and what can make a hudge

difference on how one might react to a toxin exposure compared to how someone

else might react to that same exposure. even if they were twins and got sick

from the same water damaged room in the same water damaged house. nobody even

breaths the same rate of air,this alone can lead to differences in how one might

be damaged by exposure commpared to someone else. some may have better mucus

systems and that can make a hudge difference, some may be spending more time or

even sleeping all night closier to the mold sorce, inhaleing more

mold,myco's,voc's,ect. the closer you are to a active mold sorce the more

particles you well inhale. allergic,irritant or toxic.

some have better matabolism systems than others, and I have little dought that

gene mutations,not just what we might be born with but accuried from toxic

exposure also play a role.

while I understand the possablitity that certain genetics could be brought into

play when disease hits us, that may have otherwise never brothered us our whole

life, I've done enough research to realize that sometimes the old chicken vs.

egg comes into play.

there may still be unanswered questions as to how the immune system works, like

there is still questions on how the brain works.

thats mainly why I get aggervated by people who proclaim some type of expertize

just based on their experience which might be alot different from someone else

experience. I've learned from researching that you cant just read one book, one

or two articles, and base your expertize on those alone. chances are you will be

wrong.

I have proved myself wrong many times along the way, thats the process of

learning. some people with ego problems just arenot able to learn new things

because they think they allready have all the answers.

>

> Yes, I think this might be the problem-it happens to me all the time. I first

react to a mold exposure and then after I get rid of the mold or leave the area

all of a sudden everything bothers me. So then I think, oh no, the mold is still

here! But now I've learned that it's my sensitivity that is heightened to a

point where many things bother me-now I know I have MCS so it doesn't surprise

me so much anymore. It is very frustrating though to keep feeling bad after

you've worked so hard to clean up your environment.

> It might be time to get rid of things like fabric softener sheets, laundry

detergents, Windex and other cleaners, etc and see how you feel then.

>

[Guest guest]

Surella. are you saying that after aquireing chemical sensitivity you need a

mold exposure to than make you reactive to other toxins?

or are you just refering to your inital mold/WDB exposure that caused the

chemical sensitivity ?

>

> Yes, I think this might be the problem-it happens to me all the time. I first

react to a mold exposure and then after I get rid of the mold or leave the area

all of a sudden everything bothers me. So then I think, oh no, the mold is still

here! But now I've learned that it's my sensitivity that is heightened to a

point where many things bother me-now I know I have MCS so it doesn't surprise

me so much anymore. It is very frustrating though to keep feeling bad after

you've worked so hard to clean up your environment.

> It might be time to get rid of things like fabric softener sheets, laundry

detergents, Windex and other cleaners, etc and see how you feel then.

>

[Guest guest]

Funny! I wonder if those poor wasps feel like they are going to pass out-do

their wings get all wobbly?

>

> RE: fabric softener sheets, this past summer I was at my mom's beach

> house, and wasps were swarming. A local islander told us that if you

> put a fabric softener sheet out on the table it will keep the wasps

> away. Maybe those wasps know something most humans don't....these

> things are toxic!!

>

>

> >It might be time to get rid of things like fabric softener sheets,

> >laundry detergents, Windex and other cleaners, etc and see how you feel then.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No, I'm saying that I am sensitive to many many things now-mold isn't always the

trigger. But sometimes, as in the past month, things just go crazy. My kitchen

had 2 leaks which resulted in mold in the cabinetry, my car became moldy, etc

etc. All of a sudden I'm sick again-smelling everything, even the littlest

thing. Sometimes walking into a store after they mopped with ammonia will do the

same thing to me.

I'm not even sure what finally caused my MCS although I know it was probably

part mold in my basement, part carpet factory emitting fumes a block away from

my office and part my office itself, which never got cleaned and was a dusty

disaster. It was also wrong place wrong time for me-I got really sick initially

as I was going into menopause. It seemed to heighten any sensitivity I ever had

and my migraines became daily occurences and I finally quit work.

So I don't think it's limited to just mold exposure for me. Alot of toxic things

make me react badly, but (and I don't know if this is true for everyone) with me

it seems that I can handle one small exposure pretty well but when I'm hit by

multiple exposures to anything toxic I get sick.

> >

> > Yes, I think this might be the problem-it happens to me all the time. I

first react to a mold exposure and then after I get rid of the mold or leave the

area all of a sudden everything bothers me. So then I think, oh no, the mold is

still here! But now I've learned that it's my sensitivity that is heightened to

a point where many things bother me-now I know I have MCS so it doesn't surprise

me so much anymore. It is very frustrating though to keep feeling bad after

you've worked so hard to clean up your environment.

> > It might be time to get rid of things like fabric softener sheets, laundry

detergents, Windex and other cleaners, etc and see how you feel then.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

that I don't know, we never actually tried it, another trick some people

use is to hang up a wasp-nest shaped paper lantern or paper bag, fools

the wasps into thinking their are already other wasps in this site and

they don't try to establish a nest there, this method involves no chemicals!!

>Funny! I wonder if those poor wasps feel like they are going to pass out-

>do their wings get all wobbly?

>

>

>>

>> RE: fabric softener sheets, this past summer I was at my mom's beach

>> house, and wasps were swarming. A local islander told us that if you

>> put a fabric softener sheet out on the table it will keep the wasps

>> away. Maybe those wasps know something most humans don't....these

>> things are toxic!!

>>

[Guest guest]

oh, ok, I see what your saying.

" surellabaer " <surellabaer@...> wrote:

>

> No, I'm saying that I am sensitive to many many things now-mold isn't always

the trigger. But sometimes, as in the past month, things just go crazy. My

kitchen had 2 leaks which resulted in mold in the cabinetry, my car became

moldy, etc etc. All of a sudden I'm sick again-smelling everything, even the

littlest thing. Sometimes walking into a store after they mopped with ammonia

will do the same thing to me.

> I'm not even sure what finally caused my MCS although I know it was probably

part mold in my basement, part carpet factory emitting fumes a block away from

my office and part my office itself, which never got cleaned and was a dusty

disaster. It was also wrong place wrong time for me-I got really sick initially

as I was going into menopause. It seemed to heighten any sensitivity I ever had

and my migraines became daily occurences and I finally quit work.

> So I don't think it's limited to just mold exposure for me. Alot of toxic

things make me react badly, but (and I don't know if this is true for everyone)

with me it seems that I can handle one small exposure pretty well but when I'm

hit by multiple exposures to anything toxic I get sick.

[Guest guest]

I cross contaminated a house I had built, it was never ok, and I had to sell it

and move.

> So the idea that you've cross-contaminated your sister's house seems to me

that it should be the last thing on your mind.

>

> Your concerns about your own home suggest that it is an important issue for

you though.

>

> These are just my own feelings based on my own observations and experiences,

obviously. Take them for what you will.

>

> Best,

>

[Guest guest]

Cross contamination is very possible, I have done it myself and suffered the

consequences, even if it is washed, does not look moldy. I brought One thing

into my car this summer, and it made me very sick, I got it out and things

returned to just about bearable if I left the windows open. But also your

sisters house could be contaminated. To get you reactivity down you should take

Cholestrymine and be in a pure environment, after you feel better, try your

sisters house again.

>

>

>

>

> Thank you ,

>

> Im not concerned about the townhouse because if worst comes to worst I'll let

the bank have it.

>

> The inspector I hired completely missed not one but two major water leaks in

the crawl space, one was a sewage leak that had been thought to be coming from

the sprinkling system 3 months prior to me reporting it and the HOA digging out

a 20 foot piece of cast iron pipe to stop the leak.When the HOA finally did have

the crawlspace remediated and I was still getting sick they told me they had

done all they could and if I wanted anymore testing done I would have to pay for

it myself which I did at the tune of $850.00.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rather than paint more doom and gloom into my life would you care to enlighten

us as to what you took into the new house the caused the cross contamination?

>

>

>

> I cross contaminated a house I had built, it was never ok, and I had to sell

it and move.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you , thats the constructive advice I need to hear. I'll make an

appointment with my Dr and see if he'll write me a prescription tomorrow

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you ,

> >

> > Im not concerned about the townhouse because if worst comes to worst I'll

let the bank have it.

> >

> > The inspector I hired completely missed not one but two major water leaks in

the crawl space, one was a sewage leak that had been thought to be coming from

the sprinkling system 3 months prior to me reporting it and the HOA digging out

a 20 foot piece of cast iron pipe to stop the leak.When the HOA finally did have

the crawlspace remediated and I was still getting sick they told me they had

done all they could and if I wanted anymore testing done I would have to pay for

it myself which I did at the tune of $850.00.

> >

>

> >

>