Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I love the way you think, andI'm all for shaming....... that must be the Catholic thing in me. hahaSubject: Re: More than 12,000 expected at autism walkTo: EOHarm Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2008, 12:09 AM I kind of like to think that the only way some change will happen with AS is if they are shamed into it. This is why I don't think twice about telling my feelings when asked. I won't hesitate to suggest other organizations where donations would actually go towards helping families not redundant research or lavish expenses. > > > > > > > > > > > > "The event benefits research into the possible causes of > autism, > > > such > > > > as genetics and environmental factors; and effective treatments > and > > > > therapies." > > > > > > > > Notice how AS is beginning to sound more and more like a DAN!- > like > > > > biomedical research outfit? AS also says on their website that > they > > > > are working with top level government public health agencies to > get > > > at > > > > the cause of autism and the vaccine issue. What is there left > now > > > to > > > > distinguish AS from other national autism organizations on "our > > > side" > > > > who claim the same rhetoric and government collaboration? > Inquiring > > > > minds want to know. . . -Lenny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I TOTALLY agree. I'm trying to make the locals here in Phoenix realize this as well.RoxSubject: Re: More than 12,000 expected at autism walkTo: EOHarm Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2008, 12:13 AM I like to think that the s got into this before they saw the benefits their grandson was getting biomedically and when they tried to take AS's research in that direction they were railroaded by the NAAR folks. It could be that their hands are tied for awhile. But until theres a change, there will be NO changing MY mind about AS. > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; "The event benefits research into the possible causes > > of autism, > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; such > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; as genetics and environmental factors; and effective > > treatments > > & gt; and > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; therapies." > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Notice how AS is beginning to sound more and more like > > a DAN!-like > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; biomedical research outfit? AS also says on their > > website that > > & gt; they > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; are working with top level government public health > > agencies to > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; get at > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the cause of autism and the vaccine issue. What is > > there left > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; now to > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; distinguish AS from other national autism > > organizations on "our > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; side" > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; who claim the same rhetoric and government collaboration? > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Inquiring > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; minds want to know. ... . -Lenny > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; > > & gt; > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I was in the room during the negotiations and one who voted. Of course the NAAR board insisted along with full support form AS on certain terms which were and are fully disclosed to protect its interests in terms of board tenure and the scientific advisory board and structure. However those things are close to expiring. So lets see what AS chooses to do going forward. NAAR can only be the scapegoat for so long The negotiations were never about usurping power and control but what one would expect to occur with any merger. Marty > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; " The event benefits research into the possible causes > > of autism, > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; such > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; as genetics and environmental factors; and effective > > treatments > > & gt; and > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; therapies. " > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Notice how AS is beginning to sound more and more like > > a DAN!-like > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; biomedical research outfit? AS also says on their > > website that > > & gt; they > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; are working with top level government public health > > agencies to > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; get at > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the cause of autism and the vaccine issue. What is > > there left > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; now to > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; distinguish AS from other national autism > > organizations on " our > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; side " > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; who claim the same rhetoric and government collaboration? > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Inquiring > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; minds want to know. . . -Lenny > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; > > & gt; & gt; > > & gt; > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 No one is spending any energy berating. Stating an opinion when the subject comes up doesn't take much time or energy away from our cause. Geesh... Why all the fuss over 's comment? Why all the sudden is there a need to protect AS's feelings? Am I the only one who feels like I'm walking on eggshells when someone mentions AS?? Short > > > > > > > > > > > > Because it's all bullshit and they're not really doing > anything??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 The 's were never railroaded by NAAR folks. They knew full well and were in total agreement with what they agreed to and were doing. I was there. Saying their hands are tied is simply a lame excuse. It is fair to judge them by their actions as ones in which they are aligned with. Marty > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; " The event benefits > research into the possible causes > > > > of autism, > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; such > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; as genetics and > environmental factors; and effective > > > > treatments > > > > & gt; and > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; therapies. " > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Notice how AS is > beginning to sound more and more like > > > > a DAN!-like > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; biomedical research > outfit? AS also says on their > > > > website that > > > > & gt; they > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; are working with > top level government public health > > > > agencies to > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; get at > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the cause of autism > and the vaccine issue. What is > > > > there left > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; now to > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; distinguish AS from > other national autism > > > > organizations on " our > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; side " > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; who claim the same > rhetoric and government collaboration? > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Inquiring > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; minds want to know. > . . -Lenny > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; & gt; > > > > & gt; > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 In the most simple terms I do not support much of what they are doing relative to research in terms of what is funded and NOT funded. More importantly I believe much more money could and should be allocated to a more diverse research agenda. I do not believe they are nearly as efficient as they should be. That is aside from the excessive salary they pay some very incompetent staff. Bottom line is that if AS was serious about research and you cannot blame NAAR for this one, why did they have Andy Shih as Chief Science office for so long? He is still there and involved and receiving his extraordinary salary. That speaks volumes for the organization. Marty > > > > > I say nothing is furhter from the truth. And personaly If I had to > > do it over I would vote against the merger. > > > > Marty > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 This discussion is certainally not abaout protecting AS's feelings. No need to feel like walking on eggshells. You point is fair enough. Marty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because it's all bullshit and they're not really doing > > anything??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 And you'd be on the side of NAAR........ > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > " The event benefits research into the possible > causes > > of autism, > > > >>>> such > > > >>>>>>> > > > as genetics and environmental factors; and effective > > treatments > > > and > > > >>>>>>> > > > therapies. " > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > Notice how AS is beginning to sound more and more > like > > a DAN!-like > > > >>>>>>> > > > biomedical research outfit? AS also says on their > > website that > > > they > > > >>>>>>> > > > are working with top level government public health > > agencies to > > > >>>> get at > > > >>>>>>> > > > the cause of autism and the vaccine issue. What is > > there left > > > >>>> now to > > > >>>>>>> > > > distinguish AS from other national autism > > organizations on " our > > > >>>> side " > > > >>>>>>> > > > who claim the same rhetoric and government > collaboration? > > > >>>>>>> Inquiring > > > >>>>>>> > > > minds want to know. . . -Lenny > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I would say the side of doing the rigth thing. The merger of AS and NAAR I do no think has served the autism community as best as expected for many reasons. Marty > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > " The event benefits research into the possible > > causes > > > of autism, > > > > >>>> such > > > > >>>>>>> > > > as genetics and environmental factors; and effective > > > treatments > > > > and > > > > >>>>>>> > > > therapies. " > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > Notice how AS is beginning to sound more and more > > like > > > a DAN!-like > > > > >>>>>>> > > > biomedical research outfit? AS also says on their > > > website that > > > > they > > > > >>>>>>> > > > are working with top level government public health > > > agencies to > > > > >>>> get at > > > > >>>>>>> > > > the cause of autism and the vaccine issue. What is > > > there left > > > > >>>> now to > > > > >>>>>>> > > > distinguish AS from other national autism > > > organizations on " our > > > > >>>> side " > > > > >>>>>>> > > > who claim the same rhetoric and government > > collaboration? > > > > >>>>>>> Inquiring > > > > >>>>>>> > > > minds want to know. . . -Lenny > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead You and I have gone at it before, Marty. You have former/current ties to NAAR and you're a cheerleader for them. (rah rah) You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. Anyone who is a researcher should be open to possibilities. The group from NAAR is as closed-minded as any can possibly be. A researcher with a closed mind is one thing -- misleading and dangerous. " I will prove my hypothesis at all costs, regardless of where the evidence points.... " Some of my favorite people are boat rockers: Parks sat in the front of the bus and created change. Ben lin didn't give up when everyone thought he was crazy flying a kite with a key. Picasso was called crazy by everyone who knew him..... Abraham Lincoln -- freed the slaves. So unpopular, he was shot. Mark Twain -- wrote about things people didn't want to hear. Should I go on??? Read up on your history. Anyone who has ever changed the course of history had the chutzpah (sp?) to speak up and tell it like it is. Some find that quality difficult to deal with. I find it refreshing. In my personal and humble opinion, those who don't like people (such as myself) who speak their mind like to control others. They say they want " peace. " The truth is, they don't have the conviction to stand up for what they believe in, or they simply lack passion. I don't lack passion, and I certainly stand up for what I believe in. Those who do choose a difficult course. It takes a far bigger person to stand out in the crowd than those who choose to blend in. > > rocking the boat only gets you so far. Lenny's advice is sound. > It may be more difucult for some but " ...not spend so much energy > berating mediocre autism organizations, but rather create and support > effective ones. " is the way to go. > > Marty > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 " Incompetent staff........ " Ah yes......... people from the Columbia School of Journalism will study Singer as a case study of what NOT TO DO in public relations. As for your latter comments - if you look at who comprises the board of AS -- the biomedically friendly folks are FAR outweighed by the genetic zealots. And to vote Andy Shih out -- you probably need about an 80% quorum. I'd need to look at the bylaws. It's not as simple as you allude. It takes quite a bit to remove someone from a nonprofit organization. > > > > > > > > I say nothing is furhter from the truth. And personaly If I had to > > > do it over I would vote against the merger. > > > > > > Marty > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 " All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. " -- Arthur Schopenhauer > > > > rocking the boat only gets you so far. Lenny's advice is sound. > > It may be more difucult for some but " ...not spend so much energy > > berating mediocre autism organizations, but rather create and support > > effective ones. " is the way to go. > > > > Marty > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 you may be a rebel rouser and that is fine. For me however the facts matter. I believe you know well that I am not a cheerleader for NAAR. For the record, some at NAAR did fit the mold exactly as you describe and others did not. Yes you are entitled to your opinion and speak out on any issue irrespective of how anyone feels. I know you say " I will prove my hypothesis at all costs,.. " You may want to think about that. In any event, as you said we have been down this road before so it may be best for us to move on. I say this as we are in disagreement and not much will be served by an unproductive back and forth. I wish you well and hope you accomplish what you set out to do. PS NAAR as a corporate entity does not exist anymore so I have no current ties there. That ended when I resigned from the board shortly before the merger. Marty > > > > rocking the boat only gets you so far. Lenny's advice is sound. > > It may be more difucult for some but " ...not spend so much energy > > berating mediocre autism organizations, but rather create and support > > effective ones. " is the way to go. > > > > Marty > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 #1. You insinuate that the facts don't matter to me. Wrong. Every time someone here posts about AS, you have something to say. You clearly have some sort of affinity to them and I know for a fact you still speak to the " inner circle " of those at AS. #2. I was speaking of RESEARCHERS when I said " I will prove my hypothesis at all costs...... " so you may want to actually take more than 20 seconds to read my post. > > > > > > rocking the boat only gets you so far. Lenny's advice is > sound. > > > It may be more difucult for some but " ...not spend so much energy > > > berating mediocre autism organizations, but rather create and > support > > > effective ones. " is the way to go. > > > > > > Marty > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 , Andy Shih is simply an employee of AS. The Board has nothing to do with his employment. The President and CEO can fire or move his position just like any employee at any time. The real question is why has Mr. allowed him to serve as Chief Science officer for so long. That question should really be answered. As I said before, that speaks much to the integrity of the organization. Marty > > > > > > > > > > > I say nothing is furhter from the truth. And personaly If I had to > > > > do it over I would vote against the merger. > > > > > > > > Marty > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I do read your posts. However after this one I will stop as this is becoming silly. You say " Every time someone here posts about AS, you have something to say. " Well lets do the math although it is unlikely we will agree here either. Do a search for all the AS posts and then do one for my posts. You may wish to rethink what you said. That is what I refer to by facts do matter. Have a good night. Marty > > > > > > > > rocking the boat only gets you so far. Lenny's advice is > > sound. > > > > It may be more difucult for some but " ...not spend so much energy > > > > berating mediocre autism organizations, but rather create and > > support > > > > effective ones. " is the way to go. > > > > > > > > Marty > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The event benefits research into the possible causes of > > autism, > > > > such > > > > > as genetics and environmental factors; and effective treatments > > and > > > > > therapies. " > > > > > > > > > > Notice how AS is beginning to sound more and more like a DAN!- > > like > > > > > biomedical research outfit? AS also says on their website that > > they > > > > > are working with top level government public health agencies to > > get > > > > at > > > > > the cause of autism and the vaccine issue. What is there left > > now > > > > to > > > > > distinguish AS from other national autism organizations on " our > > > > side " > > > > > who claim the same rhetoric and government collaboration? > > Inquiring > > > > > minds want to know. . . -Lenny > > > > > > >I don't think there is any way AS will come around to science with no conflict of interest from pharma. If it's possible it will be a surprise to me. Every parent I met who supports AS believes their BS or wants to stay around in hope change... I only suggest & support organizations who'll do valid research. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Keep doing it, Kathy. > > Every parent I met who supports AS believes their BS or wants to stay > around in hope change... > > I only suggest & support organizations who'll do valid research. > > Kathy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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