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I love the way you think, andI'm all for shaming....... that must be the Catholic thing in me. hahaSubject: Re: More than 12,000 expected at autism walkTo: EOHarm Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2008, 12:09 AM

I kind of like to think that the only way some change will happen with

AS is if they are shamed into it.

This is why I don't think twice about telling my feelings when asked.

I won't hesitate to suggest other organizations where donations would

actually go towards helping families not redundant research or lavish

expenses.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > "The event benefits research into the possible causes of

> autism,

> > > such

> > > > as genetics and environmental factors; and effective treatments

> and

> > > > therapies."

> > > >

> > > > Notice how AS is beginning to sound more and more like a DAN!-

> like

> > > > biomedical research outfit? AS also says on their website that

> they

> > > > are working with top level government public health agencies to

> get

> > > at

> > > > the cause of autism and the vaccine issue. What is there left

> now

> > > to

> > > > distinguish AS from other national autism organizations on "our

> > > side"

> > > > who claim the same rhetoric and government collaboration?

> Inquiring

> > > > minds want to know. . . -Lenny

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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I TOTALLY agree. I'm trying to make the locals here in Phoenix realize this as well.RoxSubject: Re: More than 12,000 expected at autism walkTo: EOHarm Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2008, 12:13 AM

I like to think that the s got into this before they saw the

benefits their grandson was getting biomedically and when they tried

to take AS's research in that direction they were railroaded by the

NAAR folks. It could be that their hands are tied for awhile. But

until theres a change, there will be NO changing MY mind about AS.

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; "The event benefits

research into the possible causes

>

> of autism,

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; such

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; as genetics and

environmental factors; and effective

>

> treatments

>

> & gt; and

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; therapies."

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Notice how AS is

beginning to sound more and more like

>

> a DAN!-like

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; biomedical research

outfit? AS also says on their

>

> website that

>

> & gt; they

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; are working with

top level government public health

>

> agencies to

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; get at

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the cause of autism

and the vaccine issue. What is

>

> there left

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; now to

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; distinguish AS from

other national autism

>

> organizations on "our

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; side"

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; who claim the same

rhetoric and government collaboration?

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Inquiring

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; minds want to know.

... . -Lenny

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt;

>

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I was in the room during the negotiations and one who voted. Of

course the NAAR board insisted along with full support form AS on

certain terms which were and are fully disclosed to protect its

interests in terms of board tenure and the scientific advisory board

and structure. However those things are close to expiring. So lets

see what AS chooses to do going forward. NAAR can only be the

scapegoat for so long

The negotiations were never about usurping power and control but what

one would expect to occur with any merger.

Marty

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; " The event

benefits research into the possible causes

>

> of autism,

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; such

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; as genetics and

environmental factors; and effective

>

> treatments

>

> & gt; and

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; therapies. "

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Notice how AS is

beginning to sound more and more like

>

> a DAN!-like

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; biomedical

research outfit? AS also says on their

>

> website that

>

> & gt; they

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; are working with

top level government public health

>

> agencies to

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; get at

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the cause of

autism and the vaccine issue. What is

>

> there left

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; now to

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; distinguish AS

from other national autism

>

> organizations on " our

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; side "

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; who claim the same

rhetoric and government collaboration?

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Inquiring

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; minds want to

know. . . -Lenny

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt; & gt;

>

> & gt;

>

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No one is spending any energy berating. Stating an opinion when the

subject comes up doesn't take much time or energy away from our cause.

Geesh... Why all the fuss over 's comment? Why all the sudden is

there a need to protect AS's feelings?

Am I the only one who feels like I'm walking on eggshells when someone

mentions AS??

Short

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because it's all bullshit and they're not really doing

> anything???

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > >

> >

>

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The 's were never railroaded by NAAR folks. They knew full well

and were in total agreement with what they agreed to and were doing.

I was there. Saying their hands are tied is simply a lame excuse.

It is fair to judge them by their actions as ones in which they are

aligned with.

Marty

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; " The event

benefits

> research into the possible causes

> >

> > of autism,

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; such

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; as genetics and

> environmental factors; and effective

> >

> > treatments

> >

> > & gt; and

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; therapies. "

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Notice how AS is

> beginning to sound more and more like

> >

> > a DAN!-like

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; biomedical

research

> outfit? AS also says on their

> >

> > website that

> >

> > & gt; they

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; are working with

> top level government public health

> >

> > agencies to

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; get at

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; the cause of

autism

> and the vaccine issue. What is

> >

> > there left

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; now to

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; distinguish AS

from

> other national autism

> >

> > organizations on " our

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; side "

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; who claim the

same

> rhetoric and government collaboration?

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; Inquiring

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; minds want to

know.

> . . -Lenny

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt; & gt;

> >

> > & gt;

> >

>

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In the most simple terms I do not support much of what they are doing

relative to research in terms of what is funded and NOT funded. More

importantly I believe much more money could and should be allocated to

a more diverse research agenda. I do not believe they are nearly as

efficient as they should be. That is aside from the excessive salary

they pay some very incompetent staff.

Bottom line is that if AS was serious about research and you cannot

blame NAAR for this one, why did they have Andy Shih as Chief Science

office for so long? He is still there and involved and receiving his

extraordinary salary. That speaks volumes for the organization.

Marty

>

> >

> > I say nothing is furhter from the truth. And personaly If I had to

> > do it over I would vote against the merger.

> >

> > Marty

>

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This discussion is certainally not abaout protecting AS's feelings.

No need to feel like walking on eggshells. You point is fair enough.

Marty

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Because it's all bullshit and they're not really doing

> > anything???

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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And you'd be on the side of NAAR........

> > > >>>>>>> > > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > > " The event benefits research into the possible

> causes

> > of autism,

> > > >>>> such

> > > >>>>>>> > > > as genetics and environmental factors; and effective

> > treatments

> > > and

> > > >>>>>>> > > > therapies. "

> > > >>>>>>> > > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > > Notice how AS is beginning to sound more and more

> like

> > a DAN!-like

> > > >>>>>>> > > > biomedical research outfit? AS also says on their

> > website that

> > > they

> > > >>>>>>> > > > are working with top level government public health

> > agencies to

> > > >>>> get at

> > > >>>>>>> > > > the cause of autism and the vaccine issue. What is

> > there left

> > > >>>> now to

> > > >>>>>>> > > > distinguish AS from other national autism

> > organizations on " our

> > > >>>> side "

> > > >>>>>>> > > > who claim the same rhetoric and government

> collaboration?

> > > >>>>>>> Inquiring

> > > >>>>>>> > > > minds want to know. . . -Lenny

> > > >>>>> >

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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I would say the side of doing the rigth thing. The merger of AS and

NAAR I do no think has served the autism community as best as

expected for many reasons.

Marty

> > > > >>>>>>> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>> > > > " The event benefits research into the possible

> > causes

> > > of autism,

> > > > >>>> such

> > > > >>>>>>> > > > as genetics and environmental factors; and

effective

> > > treatments

> > > > and

> > > > >>>>>>> > > > therapies. "

> > > > >>>>>>> > > >

> > > > >>>>>>> > > > Notice how AS is beginning to sound more and

more

> > like

> > > a DAN!-like

> > > > >>>>>>> > > > biomedical research outfit? AS also says on

their

> > > website that

> > > > they

> > > > >>>>>>> > > > are working with top level government public

health

> > > agencies to

> > > > >>>> get at

> > > > >>>>>>> > > > the cause of autism and the vaccine issue. What

is

> > > there left

> > > > >>>> now to

> > > > >>>>>>> > > > distinguish AS from other national autism

> > > organizations on " our

> > > > >>>> side "

> > > > >>>>>>> > > > who claim the same rhetoric and government

> > collaboration?

> > > > >>>>>>> Inquiring

> > > > >>>>>>> > > > minds want to know. . . -Lenny

> > > > >>>>> >

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>

> > > > >>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed,

it's the only thing that ever has.

Margaret Mead

You and I have gone at it before, Marty. You have former/current ties

to NAAR and you're a cheerleader for them. (rah rah) You're entitled

to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

Anyone who is a researcher should be open to possibilities. The group

from NAAR is as closed-minded as any can possibly be. A researcher

with a closed mind is one thing -- misleading and dangerous. " I will

prove my hypothesis at all costs, regardless of where the evidence

points.... "

Some of my favorite people are boat rockers:

Parks sat in the front of the bus and created change.

Ben lin didn't give up when everyone thought he was crazy flying

a kite with a key.

Picasso was called crazy by everyone who knew him.....

Abraham Lincoln -- freed the slaves. So unpopular, he was shot.

Mark Twain -- wrote about things people didn't want to hear.

Should I go on??? Read up on your history. Anyone who has ever

changed the course of history had the chutzpah (sp?) to speak up and

tell it like it is. Some find that quality difficult to deal with. I

find it refreshing.

In my personal and humble opinion, those who don't like people (such

as myself) who speak their mind like to control others. They say they

want " peace. " The truth is, they don't have the conviction to stand

up for what they believe in, or they simply lack passion.

I don't lack passion, and I certainly stand up for what I believe in.

Those who do choose a difficult course. It takes a far bigger person

to stand out in the crowd than those who choose to blend in.

>

> rocking the boat only gets you so far. Lenny's advice is sound.

> It may be more difucult for some but " ...not spend so much energy

> berating mediocre autism organizations, but rather create and support

> effective ones. " is the way to go.

>

> Marty

>

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" Incompetent staff........ "

Ah yes......... people from the Columbia School of Journalism will

study Singer as a case study of what NOT TO DO in public

relations.

As for your latter comments - if you look at who comprises the board

of AS -- the biomedically friendly folks are FAR outweighed by the

genetic zealots. And to vote Andy Shih out -- you probably need about

an 80% quorum. I'd need to look at the bylaws.

It's not as simple as you allude. It takes quite a bit to remove

someone from a nonprofit organization.

> >

> > >

> > > I say nothing is furhter from the truth. And personaly If I had to

> > > do it over I would vote against the merger.

> > >

> > > Marty

> >

>

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" All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed.

Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being

self-evident. " -- Arthur Schopenhauer

> >

> > rocking the boat only gets you so far. Lenny's advice is sound.

> > It may be more difucult for some but " ...not spend so much energy

> > berating mediocre autism organizations, but rather create and support

> > effective ones. " is the way to go.

> >

> > Marty

> >

>

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you may be a rebel rouser and that is fine. For me however the

facts matter. I believe you know well that I am not a cheerleader for

NAAR. For the record, some at NAAR did fit the mold exactly as you

describe and others did not.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion and speak out on any issue

irrespective of how anyone feels. I know you say " I will prove my

hypothesis at all costs,.. " You may want to think about that.

In any event, as you said we have been down this road before so it

may be best for us to move on. I say this as we are in disagreement

and not much will be served by an unproductive back and forth.

I wish you well and hope you accomplish what you set out to do.

PS NAAR as a corporate entity does not exist anymore so I have no

current ties there. That ended when I resigned from the board

shortly before the merger.

Marty

> >

> > rocking the boat only gets you so far. Lenny's advice is

sound.

> > It may be more difucult for some but " ...not spend so much energy

> > berating mediocre autism organizations, but rather create and

support

> > effective ones. " is the way to go.

> >

> > Marty

> >

>

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#1. You insinuate that the facts don't matter to me. Wrong. Every

time someone here posts about AS, you have something to say. You

clearly have some sort of affinity to them and I know for a fact you

still speak to the " inner circle " of those at AS.

#2. I was speaking of RESEARCHERS when I said " I will prove my

hypothesis at all costs...... " so you may want to actually take more

than 20 seconds to read my post.

> > >

> > > rocking the boat only gets you so far. Lenny's advice is

> sound.

> > > It may be more difucult for some but " ...not spend so much energy

> > > berating mediocre autism organizations, but rather create and

> support

> > > effective ones. " is the way to go.

> > >

> > > Marty

> > >

> >

>

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, Andy Shih is simply an employee of AS. The Board has nothing

to do with his employment. The President and CEO can fire or move

his position just like any employee at any time. The real question

is why has Mr. allowed him to serve as Chief Science officer

for so long. That question should really be answered.

As I said before, that speaks much to the integrity of the

organization.

Marty

> > >

> > > >

> > > > I say nothing is furhter from the truth. And personaly If I

had to

> > > > do it over I would vote against the merger.

> > > >

> > > > Marty

> > >

> >

>

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I do read your posts. However after this one I will stop as

this is becoming silly. You say " Every time someone here posts

about AS, you have something to say. " Well lets do the math although

it is unlikely we will agree here either. Do a search for all the AS

posts and then do one for my posts. You may wish to rethink what you

said. That is what I refer to by facts do matter.

Have a good night.

Marty

> > > >

> > > > rocking the boat only gets you so far. Lenny's advice

is

> > sound.

> > > > It may be more difucult for some but " ...not spend so much

energy

> > > > berating mediocre autism organizations, but rather create and

> > support

> > > > effective ones. " is the way to go.

> > > >

> > > > Marty

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > " The event benefits research into the possible causes of

> > autism,

> > > > such

> > > > > as genetics and environmental factors; and effective

treatments

> > and

> > > > > therapies. "

> > > > >

> > > > > Notice how AS is beginning to sound more and more like a

DAN!-

> > like

> > > > > biomedical research outfit? AS also says on their website

that

> > they

> > > > > are working with top level government public health

agencies to

> > get

> > > > at

> > > > > the cause of autism and the vaccine issue. What is there

left

> > now

> > > > to

> > > > > distinguish AS from other national autism organizations

on " our

> > > > side "

> > > > > who claim the same rhetoric and government collaboration?

> > Inquiring

> > > > > minds want to know. . . -Lenny

> > > > >

> >I don't think there is any way AS will come around to

science with no conflict of interest from pharma. If it's possible it

will be a surprise to me.

Every parent I met who supports AS believes their BS or wants to stay

around in hope change...

I only suggest & support organizations who'll do valid research.

Kathy

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Keep doing it, Kathy.

>

> Every parent I met who supports AS believes their BS or wants to stay

> around in hope change...

>

> I only suggest & support organizations who'll do valid research.

>

> Kathy

>

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