Re: PS on - CDC: Vaccine Study Design Uninformative and Potentially Misleading

[Guest guest]

I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the study was "useless"?!

I'm getting a glass of wine.

-------------- Original message --------------

CBS and ABC news are already investigating this story

DK

[Guest guest]

I truly never thought I would

see the day.

I am speechless.

Kirby wrote:

CBS and ABC

news are already investigating this story

DK

[Guest guest]

I am very grateful that the truth is coming

out....finally....BUT...Gerberding and others have

known the truth for well over a decade and coming

clean now is great but they still deserve major jail

time!!!!!! I'll have the wine now and the martini when

they get their jail time.

--- julieobradovic@... wrote:

> I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the

> study was " useless " ?!

>

> I'm getting a glass of wine.

>

>

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

>

> CBS and ABC news are already investigating this

> story

> DK

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mr. Kirby,

that you for all you are doing. So many people I know only know how to follow the rules. They will continue to vaccinate until their is proof of harm. Thank you for helping us seek the truth.

Maureen

PS on - CDC: Vaccine Study Design "Uninformative and Potentially Misleading"

CBS and ABC news are already investigating this story

DK

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, I can't believe for a minute that this is anything less than a cog in their roll-out of the last few weeks. Although thie information is damning to them, they will continue with their spin (TIME article, AAP push to pressure parents to vax or fire them, etc) and the study to be released in the next year...they will herald that as the study of studies. Who wants to bet that it will say vaccine ingredients are safe?

I still had a glass of wine though. > I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the> study was "useless"?! > > I'm getting a glass of wine. > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ -- > From: " Kirby" <dkirby@.... com> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this> story> DK> >

[Guest guest]

Before we all start setting off the fireworks in celebration keep in mind that the CDC is completing a non-ecological study on thimerosal and autism ( et al), related to the study published last September that claimed to find no association between thimerosal and neurodevelopmental disorders.  They don't need Verstraeten or the VSD any longer, now that that they have produced these "better" studies. Their approach is to disown the VSD now that Young et al. has shown that the VSD does show an association. The VSD has obvious flaws and the CDC will in the future point to the studies and not Verstraeten as the studies that exonerate thimerosal.Keep in mind that the first study did show associations between thimerosal and speech delay and other ND's but the study explained this away. Sallie Bernard, a study committee member, dissented from the study's conclusions for these and other reasons.Here is the abstract on the first study:Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years W. , Ph.D., Cristofer Price, Sc.M., Barbara Goodson, Ph.D., K. Shay, M.D., M.P.H., Patti Benson, M.P.H., Virginia L. Hinrichsen, M.S., M.P.H., Edwin , M.P.H., Eileen sen, M.P.H., a Ray, M.P.H., S. Marcy, M.D., Dunn, M.D., M.P.H., A. , M.D., M.P.H., A. Lieu, M.D., M.P.H., Steve Black, M.D., Gerrie , M.A., S. Weintraub, M.P.H., L. , M.D., M.P.H., DeStefano, M.D., M.P.H., for the Vaccine Safety Datalink TeamBackground It has been hypothesized that early exposure to thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative used in vaccines and immune globulin preparations, is associated with neuropsychological deficits in children.Methods We enrolled 1047 children between the ages of 7 and 10 years and administered standardized tests assessing 42 neuropsychological outcomes. (We did not assess autism-spectrum disorders.) Exposure to mercury from thimerosal was determined from computerized immunization records, medical records, personal immunization records, and parent interviews. Information on potential confounding factors was obtained from the interviews and medical charts. We assessed the association between current neuropsychological performance and exposure to mercury during the prenatal period, the neonatal period (birth to 28 days), and the first 7 months of life.Results Among the 42 neuropsychological outcomes, we detected only a few significant associations with exposure to mercury from thimerosal. The detected associations were small and almost equally divided between positive and negative effects. Higher prenatal mercury exposure was associated with better performance on one measure of language and poorer performance on one measure of attention and executive functioning. Increasing levels of mercury exposure from birth to 7 months were associated with better performance on one measure of fine motor coordination and on one measure of attention and executive functioning. Increasing mercury exposure from birth to 28 days was associated with poorer performance on one measure of speech articulation and better performance on one measure of fine motor coordination.Conclusions Our study does not support a causal association between early exposure to mercury from thimerosal-containing vaccines and immune globulins and deficits in neuropsychological functioning at the age of 7 to 10 years.Unfortunately, I can't believe for a minute that this is anything less than a cog in their roll-out of the last few weeks. Although thie information is damning to them, they will continue with their spin (TIME article, AAP push to pressure parents to vax or fire them, etc) and the study to be released in the next year...they will herald that as the study of studies. Who wants to bet that it will say vaccine ingredients are safe? I still had a glass of wine though. --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Fund <susan_fund> wrote:From: Fund <susan_fund>Subject: Re: PS on - CDC: Vaccine Study Design "Uninformative and Potentially Misleading"To: EOHarm Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 10:00 PMI am very grateful that the truth is comingout....finally. ...BUT... Gerberding and others haveknown the truth for well over a decade and comingclean now is great but they still deserve major jailtime!!!!!! I'll have the wine now and the martini whenthey get their jail time.--- julieobradovic@ comcast.net wrote:> I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the> study was "useless"?! > > I'm getting a glass of wine. > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ -- > From: " Kirby" <dkirby@.... com> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this> story> DK> >  J. KrakowAttorney at Law1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110Garden City, New York 11530 (fax)rkrakow@...

[Guest guest]

"Increasing levels of mercury exposure from birth to 7 months were associated with better performance on one measure of fine motor coordination and on one measure of attention and executive functioning."

Ok...am I reading this correctly that they are claiming that mercury helps fine motor skills????

> I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the> study was "useless"?! > > I'm getting a glass of wine. > > > > ------------ -- Original message

------------ -- > From: " Kirby" <dkirby@.... com> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this> story> DK> >

J. Krakow

Attorney at Law

1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110

Garden City, New York 11530

(fax)

rkrakowearthlink (DOT) net

[Guest guest]

I knew there had to be something to this....oh, well, it felt good for a minute. I should have known better by now.

-------------- Original message --------------

Before we all start setting off the fireworks in celebration keep in mind that the CDC is completing a non-ecological study on thimerosal and autism ( et al), related to the study published last September that claimed to find no association between thimerosal and neurodevelopmental disorders. They don't need Verstraeten or the VSD any longer, now that that they have produced these "better" studies. Their approach is to disown the VSD now that Young et al. has shown that the VSD does show an association. The VSD has obvious flaws and the CDC will in the future point to the studies and not Verstraeten as the studies that exonerate thimerosal.

Keep in mind that the first study did show associations between thimerosal and speech delay and other ND's but the study explained this away. Sallie Bernard, a study committee member, dissented from the study's conclusions for these and other reasons.

Here is the abstract on the first study:

Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years

W. , Ph.D., Cristofer Price, Sc.M., Barbara Goodson, Ph.D., K. Shay, M.D., M.P.H., Patti Benson, M.P.H., Virginia L. Hinrichsen, M.S., M.P.H., Edwin , M.P.H., Eileen sen, M.P.H., a Ray, M.P.H., S. Marcy, M.D., Dunn, M.D., M.P.H., A. , M.D., M.P.H., A. Lieu, M.D., M.P.H., Steve Black, M.D., Gerrie , M.A., S. Weintraub, M.P.H., L. , M.D., M.P.H., DeStefano, M.D., M.P.H., for the Vaccine Safety Datalink Team

Background It has been hypothesized that early exposure to thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative used in vaccines and immune globulin preparations, is associated with neuropsychological deficits in children.

Methods We enrolled 1047 children between the ages of 7 and 10 years and administered standardized tests assessing 42 neuropsychological outcomes. (We did not assess autism-spectrum disorders.) Exposure to mercury from thimerosal was determined from computerized immunization records, medical records, personal immunization records, and parent interviews. Information on potential confounding factors was obtained from the interviews and medical charts. We assessed the association between current neuropsychological performance and exposure to mercury during the prenatal period, the neonatal period (birth to 28 days), and the first 7 months of life.

Results Among the 42 neuropsychological outcomes, we detected only a few significant associations with exposure to mercury from thimerosal. The detected associations were small and almost equally divided between positive and negative effects. Higher prenatal mercury exposure was associated with better performance on one measure of language and poorer performance on one measure of attention and executive functioning. Increasing levels of mercury exposure from birth to 7 months were associated with better performance on one measure of fine motor coordination and on one measure of attention and executive functioning. Increasing mercury exposure from birth to 28 days was associated with poorer performance on one measure of speech articulation and better performance on one measure of fine motor coordination.

Conclusions Our study does not support a causal association between early exposure to mercury from thimerosal-containing vaccines and immune globulins and deficits in neuropsychological functioning at the age of 7 to 10 years.

Unfortunately, I can't believe for a minute that this is anything less than a cog in their roll-out of the last few weeks. Although thie information is damning to them, they will continue with their spin (TIME article, AAP push to pressure parents to vax or fire them, etc) and the study to be released in the next year...they will herald that as the study of studies. Who wants to bet that it will say vaccine ingredients are safe?

I still had a glass of wine though. > I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the> study was "useless"?! > > I'm getting a glass of wine. > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ -- &g

t; From: " Kirby" <dkirby@.... com> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this> story> DK> >

J. Krakow

Attorney at Law

1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110

Garden City, New York 11530

(fax)

rkrakowearthlink (DOT) net

[Guest guest]

The thimerosal/NDD study does show some associations, including speech, and this was consistent with some earlier studies in the UK. While et al try to portray their study as conclusive, it raises many questions and does not resolve the issue. Sallie Bernard has provided a good critique that explains these problems. But since here and in the forthcoming thimerosal/autism study did look at patient records the CDC will say these studies are more reliable methodologically than the Verstraeten VSD analysis and will base their "no association" conclusions on the studies, abandoning the obviously flawed Verstraeten VSD analysis. Verstraeten served its purpose by serving as the foundation (with the flaws hidden or minimized back in 2004) for the IOM conclusions, so CDC was not going to abandon the VSD analysis until they had something "better."In my opinion that is what is going on here. Sorry to provide a sober analysis but the reports suggesting that the CDC and Gerberding are throwing in the towel on the thimerosal debate are greatly exaggerated.I knew there had to be something to this....oh, well, it felt good for a minute. I should have known better by now. --------- Re: PS on - CDC: Vaccine Study Design "Uninformative and Potentially Misleading"To: EOHarm Date: Friday, June 20, 2008, 10:00 PMI am very grateful that the truth is comingout....finally. ...BUT... Gerberding and others haveknown the truth for well over a decade and comingclean now is great but they still deserve major jailtime!!!!!! I'll have the wine now and the martini whenthey get their jail time.--- julieobradovic@ comcast.net wrote:> I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the> study was "useless"?! > > I'm getting a glass of wine. > > > > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --  & g t; From: " Kirby" <dkirby@.... com> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this> story> DK> >  J. KrakowAttorney at Law1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110Garden City, New York 11530 (fax)rkrakowearthlink (DOT) net J. KrakowAttorney at Law1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110Garden City, New York 11530 (fax)rkrakow@...

[Guest guest]

I suspect Bob is exactly correct here. I long ago decided that if they

were capable of lying about the toxicity of ethylmercury, and its

supposed clearance from the body, that nothing they say, or do,

can be trusted. I agree that they are likely attempting to

undermine the credibility of the studies by Geier and Young by

sacrificing their own previous study. Oh what a tangled web....

Sue

>

> > I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the

> > study was " useless " ?!

> >

> > I'm getting a glass of wine.

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --

> > From: " Kirby " <dkirby@... com>

> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this

> > story

> > DK

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> J. Krakow

> Attorney at Law

> 1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110

> Garden City, New York 11530

>

> (fax)

> rkrakow@...

>

[Guest guest]

There are some positives - the Verstraeten study was regarded as superior to the European studies that had even greater methodological flaws. The IOM relied on Verstraeten and the European studies for its conclusions, including Madsden, Hviid and . So the CDC and IOM look completely disingenuous, if one bothers to examine what they have done over the last five years.The study already published showed association with speech problems, and this was consistent with other UK studies showing the same thing, calling for, at the minimum more and better research.The good news is that the IOM 2004 report is now completely worthless, and this was the foundation for all who claimed that the thimerosal debate was over. Every time you read or hear an AAP rep or other pediatrician say - "5 large studies looking at hundreds of thousands of children show no association"  you can now forcefully counter the argument.The CDC is now transferring its defense of the vaccine program to a more stable platform. They have a new set of problems with the studies but likely feel they are on terra firma with these studies moving forward. They still have some major problems in this new platform for the debate, but they knew that their reliance on Verstraeten and the Danish/UK studies was terribly flawed. That reliance was but an intermediary step in their strategy.  I think the CDC is vulnerable for the way it misrepresented the importance of the Verstraeten and other studies in the past, and now owning up to their defects. They should take a credibility hit on that, and the IOM is very vulnerable to their uncritical acceptance of these studies.But that was then, and their strategy worked, buying them valuable time and territory in the time. Now they will use their new artillery in a new battleground.I suspect Bob is exactly correct here. I long ago decided that if theywere capable of lying about the toxicity of ethylmercury, and itssupposed clearance from the body, that nothing they say, or do, can be trusted. I agree that they are likely attempting to undermine the credibility of the studies by Geier and Young by sacrificing their own previous study. Oh what a tangled web....Sue> > > I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the> > study was "useless"?!> >> > I'm getting a glass of wine.> >> > > >> > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --> > From: " Kirby" <dkirby@... com>> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this> > story> > DK> >> >> > > > > > > J. Krakow> Attorney at Law> 1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110> Garden City, New York 11530> > (fax)> rkrakow@...> J. KrakowAttorney at Law1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110Garden City, New York 11530 (fax)rkrakow@...

[Guest guest]

Didn't the study exclude children diagnosed with ASD/autism? Aasa Krakow wrote: There are some positives - the Verstraeten study was regarded as superior to the European studies that had even greater methodological flaws. The IOM relied on Verstraeten and the European studies for its conclusions, including Madsden, Hviid and . So the CDC and IOM look completely disingenuous, if one bothers to examine what they have done over the last five years. The study already published showed association with speech problems, and this was consistent with other UK studies showing the same thing, calling for, at the minimum more and better research. The good news is that the IOM 2004 report is now completely worthless, and this was the foundation for all who claimed that the thimerosal debate was over. Every time you read or hear an AAP rep or other pediatrician say - "5 large studies looking at hundreds of thousands of children show no association" you can now forcefully counter the argument. The CDC is now transferring its defense of the vaccine program to a more stable platform. They have a new set of problems with the studies but likely feel they are on terra firma with these studies moving forward. They still have some major

problems in this new platform for the debate, but they knew that their reliance on Verstraeten and the Danish/UK studies was terribly flawed. That reliance was but an intermediary step in their strategy. I think the CDC is vulnerable for the way it misrepresented the importance of the Verstraeten and other studies in the past, and now owning up to their defects. They should take a credibility hit on that, and the IOM is very vulnerable to their uncritical acceptance of these studies. But that was then, and their strategy worked, buying them valuable time and territory in the time. Now they will use their new artillery in a new battleground. I suspect Bob is exactly correct here. I long ago decided that if theywere capable of lying about the toxicity of ethylmercury, and itssupposed clearance from the body, that nothing they say, or do, can be trusted. I agree that they are likely attempting to undermine the credibility of the studies by Geier and Young by sacrificing their own previous study. Oh what a tangled web....Sue> > > I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the> > study was "useless"?!> >> > I'm getting a glass of wine.> >> > > >> > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --> > From: " Kirby" <dkirby@... com>> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this> > story> > DK> >> >> > > > > > > J. Krakow> Attorney at Law> 1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110> Garden City, New York 11530> > (fax)> rkrakow@...> J. Krakow Attorney at Law 1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110 Garden City, New York 11530 (fax) rkrakowearthlink (DOT) net

[Guest guest]

Yes, but there is a second study that is completed or nearing completion that looks at autism.I do not know when it will be published, and I have not recently heard anything about the results. Several years ago public health pundits on the other side of the debate were claiming the studies would exonerate thimerosal.Didn't the study exclude children diagnosed with ASD/autism? Aasa Krakow <rkrakowearthlink (DOT) net> wrote:There are some positives - the Verstraeten study was regarded as superior to the European studies that had even greater methodological flaws. The IOM relied on Verstraeten and the European studies for its conclusions, including Madsden, Hviid and . So the CDC and IOM look completely disingenuous, if one bothers to examine what they have done over the last five years.The study already published showed association with speech problems, and this was consistent with other UK studies showing the same thing, calling for, at the minimum more and better research.The good news is that the IOM 2004 report is now completely worthless, and this was the foundation for all who claimed that the thimerosal debate was over. Every time you read or hear an AAP rep or other pediatrician say - "5 large studies looking at hundreds of thousands of children show no association"  you can now forcefully counter the argument.The CDC is now transferring its defense of the vaccine program to a more stable platform. They have a new set of problems with the studies but likely feel they are on terra firma with these studies moving forward. They still have some major problems in this new platform for the debate, but they knew that their reliance on Verstraeten and the Danish/UK studies was terribly flawed. That reliance was but an intermediary step in their strategy.  I think the CDC is vulnerable for the way it misrepresented the importance of the Verstraeten and other studies in the past, and now owning up to their defects. They should take a credibility hit on that, and the IOM is very vulnerable to their uncritical acceptance of these studies.But that was then, and their strategy worked, buying them valuable time and territory in the time. Now they will use their new artillery in a new battleground.I suspect Bob is exactly correct here. I long ago decided that if theywere capable of lying about the toxicity of ethylmercury, and itssupposed clearance from the body, that nothing they say, or do, can be trusted. I agree that they are likely attempting to undermine the credibility of the studies by Geier and Young by sacrificing their own previous study. Oh what a tangled web....Sue> > > I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the> > study was "useless"?!> >> > I'm getting a glass of wine.> >> > > >> > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --> > From: " Kirby" <dkirby@... com>> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this> > story> > DK> >> >> > > > > > > J. Krakow> Attorney at Law> 1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110> Garden City, New York 11530> > (fax)> rkrakow@...> J. KrakowAttorney at Law1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110Garden City, New York 11530 (fax)rkrakowearthlink (DOT) net J. KrakowAttorney at Law1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110Garden City, New York 11530 (fax)rkrakow@...

[Guest guest]

Could it be after the " Green our Vaccine Rally " and the RFK Jr. speech

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udxgXp_nsMs (@ 4:36 into this video)

the media actually started doing there job and started nosing around

some of these studies and the CDC got nervous.

[Guest guest]

Is it still true that if a video gets viewed a certain # of times it makes the youtube homepage? If it is, let's all try to do this!!!

Subject: Re: PS on - CDC: Vaccine Study Design "Uninformative and Potentially MisleadingTo: EOHarm Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 12:33 PM

Could it be after the "Green our Vaccine Rally" and the RFK Jr. speech http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=2_TLlwq- gqQ or http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=udxgXp_ nsMs (@ 4:36 into this video) the media actually started doing there job and started nosing aroundsome of these studies and the CDC got nervous.

[Guest guest]

The congress needs to under stand we the people will not except anything the CDC does from this day forward period, We need to make it known now ! that the CDC cannot be trusted with Vacc. safety and that point is non negotiable. We have the proof in very sick children and the U.S. economy will soon reflect the cost of Dir. Gerberdines costly mistakes, an Iraq war. equivalent every year for the life of these children effected, 200 to 400 billion every year. We need to strike now while she is beaten up pretty bad and finish her off. We should show no mercy for she and the other incompatant people under her are child poisoners and I don't mean on accident I mean on purpose, premeditated child poisoners. Our battle cry now should be loud and clear WE DON"T TRUST YOU

NOW CDC, AND WE WILL NEVER AGAIN TRUST YOU WITH OUR CHILDREN !!!

[Guest guest]

Not setting off fireworks, but we have to remember how important it is

to be *grateful* for everything positive that happens.

Gratitude is very powerful. I've experienced this in my own life in

the past few years. I've learned lately when I'm grateful more good

comes into my life, when I'm negative, negative things come my way.

Like Jim Carrey said (while the crowd cheered). Everything that has

ever happened good in his life has come because he already believed it

had happened.

Therefore I'm choosing right now to focus on the good part of this

instead of creating resistance by instinctively expecting disappointment.

(Not that I disagree with what you are saying)

>

> > I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the

> > study was " useless " ?!

> >

> > I'm getting a glass of wine.

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --

> > From: " Kirby " <dkirby@... com>

> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this

> > story

> > DK

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> J. Krakow

> Attorney at Law

> 1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110

> Garden City, New York 11530

>

> (fax)

> rkrakow@...

>

[Guest guest]

I SECOND THAT! Thanks, for the UK work and your continuing persistence to bring truth to light! You are doing what I wish I could if not for the time needed to care for my son!!!

Barb

Re: PS on - CDC: Vaccine Study Design "Uninformative and Potentially Misleading"

Thank you for all you do for our kids! You didn't have to, but you do it in the most amazing way!! Our family have deep gratitude for your dedication. Leigh mom to going 8yo.

Kirby <dkirby@....com> wrote:

CBS and ABC news are already investigating this story

DK

[Guest guest]

I am grateful for the retreat of public health in this battle in

reaction to the positive steps taken by parent advocates to expose the

CDC junk science used to continue to harm our children.

I am grateful for the actions and words of caution from sober

advocates like Bob Krakow who are not distracted by public health pr

manipulations and their tactical retreats in the face of their

fraudulent science exposed.

Public health is on the defensive, and this is good progress worthy of

gratitude. But they are not in retreat as a result of anyone asking

nicely on their boards and committees. It took independent review and

they were forced to recant. And that's about as much gushing as

you're going to see from me. The war is far from over.

Lenny

> >

> > Before we all start setting off the fireworks in celebration keep in

> > mind that the CDC is completing a non-ecological study on thimerosal

> > and autism ( et al), related to the study published last

> > September that claimed to find no association between thimerosal and

> > neurodevelopmental disorders. They don't need Verstraeten or the

VSD

> > any longer, now that that they have produced these " better " studies.

> > Their approach is to disown the VSD now that Young et al. has shown

> > that the VSD does show an association. The VSD has obvious flaws and

> > the CDC will in the future point to the studies and not

> > Verstraeten as the studies that exonerate thimerosal.

> >

> > Keep in mind that the first study did show associations

> > between thimerosal and speech delay and other ND's but the study

> > explained this away. Sallie Bernard, a study committee member,

> > dissented from the study's conclusions for these and other reasons.

> >

> > Here is the abstract on the first study:

> >

-snip-

[Guest guest]

Angndon1994:I have no problem with your public expression of gratitude.  What I wrote is not relevant to being "grateful" or "ungrateful" nor does it have anything to do with expressing optimism or pessimism. I think we are talking about two unrelated subjects and my message was not specifically directed to your statement. You appear to be cheering news that may contribute to the public debate in a way you find to be positive. That is fine. I am offering some realistic assessment of what the Gerberding submission to Congress may mean. Surely we should be grateful for any work that reaches for the truth. Lest you think that I am somehow "ungrateful" please rest assured that I have expressed my thanks privately.RJKNot setting off fireworks, but we have to remember how important it isto be *grateful* for everything positive that happens. Gratitude is very powerful. I've experienced this in my own life inthe past few years. I've learned lately when I'm grateful more goodcomes into my life, when I'm negative, negative things come my way.Like Jim Carrey said (while the crowd cheered). Everything that hasever happened good in his life has come because he already believed ithad happened.Therefore I'm choosing right now to focus on the good part of thisinstead of creating resistance by instinctively expecting disappointment.(Not that I disagree with what you are saying)> > > I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the> > study was "useless"?!> >> > I'm getting a glass of wine.> >> > > >> > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --> > From: " Kirby" <dkirby@... com>> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this> > story> > DK> >> >> > > > > > > J. Krakow> Attorney at Law> 1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110> Garden City, New York 11530> > (fax)> rkrakow@...> J. KrakowAttorney at Law1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110Garden City, New York 11530 (fax)rkrakow@...

[Guest guest]

This is probably just the c d c's failsafe/backup PR job. They probably had a meeting at some point and decided that if the masses got to be too many (US!) they would have to cave. I am sure they were hoping they could have used the chemical industry as their blame for what happened to our kids but we are too many and convincing too many at this point.I'm not normally a negative person but his whole vaccine injury issue caused me to quit being a namby-pamby about most things -- most of which, the health of my kids -- and yours.In the "grateful" department, I am thankful for Mr. Krakow who is on THAT side of the world doing what he does BEST, and Lenny (westcoast) for making sure we are all

informed and every person in between those two coasts who are spreading the word and not being namby-pambies.Subject: Re: PS on - CDC: Vaccine Study Design "Uninformative and Potentially MisleadingTo: EOHarm Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 9:18 PM

I am grateful for the retreat of public health in this battle in

reaction to the positive steps taken by parent advocates to expose the

CDC junk science used to continue to harm our children.

I am grateful for the actions and words of caution from sober

advocates like Bob Krakow who are not distracted by public health pr

manipulations and their tactical retreats in the face of their

fraudulent science exposed.

Public health is on the defensive, and this is good progress worthy of

gratitude. But they are not in retreat as a result of anyone asking

nicely on their boards and committees. It took independent review and

they were forced to recant. And that's about as much gushing as

you're going to see from me. The war is far from over.

Lenny

> >

> > Before we all start setting off the fireworks in celebration keep in

> > mind that the CDC is completing a non-ecological study on thimerosal

> > and autism ( et al), related to the study published last

> > September that claimed to find no association between thimerosal and

> > neurodevelopmental disorders. They don't need Verstraeten or the

VSD

> > any longer, now that that they have produced these "better" studies.

> > Their approach is to disown the VSD now that Young et al. has shown

> > that the VSD does show an association. The VSD has obvious flaws and

> > the CDC will in the future point to the studies and not

> > Verstraeten as the studies that exonerate thimerosal.

> >

> > Keep in mind that the first study did show associations

> > between thimerosal and speech delay and other ND's but the study

> > explained this away. Sallie Bernard, a study committee member,

> > dissented from the study's conclusions for these and other reasons.

> >

> > Here is the abstract on the first study:

> >

-snip-

[Guest guest]

In reply to angndon1994. I think everyone is missing the point of

what she was trying to get across.

The point she was trying to make was that being " grateful " means we

have come so far in our fight against toxic vaccines. Who would have

thought that it would have gotten to this point. Thanks to being

able to voice our opinions and sharing information on what is being

twisted and turned to try and sway parents feelings on this matter by

the CDC, FDA, AAP etc. we are outsmarting them.

I am grateful for the Kirby's and all who are fighting this

fight for our kids.

Grateful that so many turned out for the " Green our Vaccines Rally. "

Grateful for all the hours parents take time out to study this

subject hoping to be informed parents so we don't have to believe

their (cdc) garbage anymore.

I think her point was also that if we think positively and know that

the end is coming in this long battle that we will win this war.

I don't think this is being wishy washy or gushing or even namby--

pambies.

We are people who think positively about the outcome of the hell we

and our poisoned children are all living every day.

So thank you angndon1994 for giving us all positive reinforcement to

continue to fight this battle. WE WILL WIN THE BATTLE!!! No doubt in

my mind. We've come too far to let them win.

Thank you!!

>

> > >

>

> > > Before we all start setting off the fireworks in celebration

keep in

>

> > > mind that the CDC is completing a non-ecological study on

thimerosal

>

> > > and autism ( et al), related to the study published

last

>

> > > September that claimed to find no association between

thimerosal and

>

> > > neurodevelopmental disorders. They don't need Verstraeten or

the

>

> VSD

>

> > > any longer, now that that they have produced these " better "

studies.

>

> > > Their approach is to disown the VSD now that Young et al. has

shown

>

> > > that the VSD does show an association. The VSD has obvious

flaws and

>

> > > the CDC will in the future point to the studies and

not

>

> > > Verstraeten as the studies that exonerate thimerosal.

>

> > >

>

> > > Keep in mind that the first study did show

associations

>

> > > between thimerosal and speech delay and other ND's but the

study

>

> > > explained this away. Sallie Bernard, a study committee member,

>

> > > dissented from the study's conclusions for these and other

reasons.

>

> > >

>

> > > Here is the abstract on the first study:

>

> > >

>

> -snip-

>

[Guest guest]

, I agree. I think there are politicians out there who feel

pressured to seem as if they're staying on top of the issue of

vaccine safety and thimerosal but would sorely like an excuse to drop

it cold. The CDC's job is to keep coming up with those excuses. I got

the impression that displacing Verstraetton and throwing at

us is a bit like the Russian folk tale of the troika full of peasants

(CDC, IOM, Bush admin, etc.) being pursued by wolves (us, public

opinion, politicians forced to make a stand). Every so often, the

group on the troika will throw another peasant off the sleigh to keep

the wolves busy for a while in order to gain some distance. In this

case, the only wolves who feign to stop to sniff this " "

peasant will distinguish themselves clearly as looking for any excuse

to turn their back on vaccine dangers.

For all the fraud we suspect and more that we can't even imagine

which has gone into the cover-up of vaccine dangers, these people are

criminally liable. They'll never concede anything unless conceding is

a strategy in itself. I'm pretty sure a huge percentage of SIDS cases

will eventually be linked securely to vaccines, not to mention the

children who die of vaccine-induced seizures. That's basically mass

infanticide, so these people will lie before Congress, lie on the

witness stand, lie from their minimum security jail cells, lie in

their memoirs. Anything not to go down in history as the architects

of the epidemic.

>

> > I kind of need to pinch myself. Gerberding said the

> > study was " useless " ?!

> >

> > I'm getting a glass of wine.

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------ -- Original message ------------ --

> & g t; From: " Kirby " <dkirby@... com>

> > CBS and ABC news are already investigating this

> > story

> > DK

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> J. Krakow

> Attorney at Law

> 1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110

> Garden City, New York 11530

>

> (fax)

> rkrakow@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> J. Krakow

> Attorney at Law

> 1205 lin Avenue, Suite 110

> Garden City, New York 11530

>

> (fax)

> rkrakow@...

>