Re: Nurture Give & Take

[Guest guest]

Karmyn,

I wanted to let you know that I saw your posting. I want to give it the attention it deserves but I am getting ready for work at the moment. I will respond to your questions either later tonight after I get home or tomorrow morning sometime. I just wanted to touch base tonight and say you aren't alone. Everyone here either AS or NT has made adjustments in their life styles to come as far as they have. It is difficult for sure but you will get through. I will give you more specifics from our story tomorrow.

e

From: mynelltx

Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:00 PM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject: Nurture Give & Take

Hi e,I wanted to respond to your post to new member Chloe. My husband and Ihave been married for 22 years. I am NT he is AS. First of all Iapplaud you & your husband for constantly rising to the challenges inlife and not letting them defeat you. I am sure you are bothexceptional people, but being NT I can't help but feel for youe. Your story reminds me of "A Beautiful Mind". F. Nashcertainly deserves the recognition he has attained through the years,but what about his wife? She had to re-invent the way her family wasgoing to be raised and the way their lives would be lived almost everystep of the way. She, like you must be a very strong woman to havehung in there and given up so much to care for the needs and demandsof her family. My husband is gifted and superior on many levels at hisprofession. His relationship skills however could use improvement. Youwrote of dealing with always being in the nurturing role in yourrelationship. My son is about to start college and once again I amcaught in the middle as my husband behaves as though this is a case ofsibling rivalry rather than partnering w/me to get the tasks at handaccomplished. It is the height of holiday madness and as I interactwith college counselors, student aide officials and admittanceadministrators (alone) and make sure we enjoy the holidays myhusband's agenda is on another page in a parallel universe. He hasdecided to clean out the garage and park the clutter in the kitchenand dinning area. He is also trying to get me involved with starting anew project of turning the storage room into a work shop. Thisbehavior is typical whenever my son has extra needs (the start ofschool, band, school trips etc). The reason I am writing is becauseyou mentioned that you & your husband were able to get past this verydraining behavior. I would welcome any advice, books, resources youused to get past this. I too feel towards my husband as though he wereanother child and have zero interest in marital relations with him.Best wishes for a happy holiday season. Thank you for any informationyou may have. Bless You.Karmyn

[Guest guest]

Kamryn,

Back from work and as promised I am going to respond with my view of things.

First it is important to understand I was not the only one who changed in our relationship. Usarian did a lot of changing and growing up as well. I did the majority of the changing first though and I began to resent him because I could no longer be myself. Over this past year I have come to the conclusion that no one can stop me from being me, except for me. I have made steps to regain my personhood because I was drowning.

The reason I start out this way is that I want anyone reading to understand that one person can not make a relationship work. When I first joined this group I was just glad that I had achieved a measure of peace in our home. It was Bill that pointed out to me that you can have a peaceful home (ie no fighting, kids safe, and relatively happy but absolutely NO intimacy of any kind) and still have a disaster for a marriage. It was kind of a wake up call for me. All those years I had pushed myself further and further inside just to avoid confrontation I was doing as much damage to myself and our relationship as Usarian ever did with his ways.

That being said, I have learned over the years that I have to change the way I communicate with him. It has been stated on this site several times that I handle him and that is still true. When we first married I expected Usarian to be able to make decisions quickly. I have learned that I have to "feed" him small bits of information over time so that he can digest it and then make a decision This is not to say that he always make the decision I would like. He is free to make up his own mind. It is just he becomes over whelmed with all the details and facts and closes down.

When he gets stressed he withdraws from the situation, however pressing it may be. He begins "projects" ( his are not home related. His take the form of writing computer programs or music or playing video games etc) that seem to me to be frivolous at the very least and get in the way of the "important" things we are dealing with. I have learned when he gets like this to leave him alone. Any prodding on my part will only make him shut down further.

As for a rivalry between the children and Usarian, honestly I have not seen that since the twins were born. At that point we had four children two and a half years old and younger, no help and Usarian was working 65-70 hours a week (so he was never home). One night he came home and said "You don't give me enough attention anymore" I looked at him and said "You feed yourself, bathe yourself and toilet yourself...Your doing just fine in my book." That seems harsh but at that point in our lives it was the truth (we went on to have our last child a year and a half later so he got some attention in there somewhere along the way LOL)

I think that comment made him understand a little more about my role. As the children have gotten older he is getting a little more of my time because now I have a little more to give.

If your husband is feeling threatened this late in the game I honestly don't know how I would handle it. There may be someone else on the list who has a more similar situation. I have found that if I allow myself to fall into the "mothering" role with Usarian he begins to expect it and acts more like a child. When I started treating him like the grown man he is and expecting him to make his own decisions and choices (REGARDLESS OF THE CONSEQUENCES) he began to grow up and act like a man. Just like with our kids sometimes we have to have the freedom to fail. That is the way we can learn to succeed.

I hope I answered all your questions and that this helped. I understand the frustration and pain you are feeling right now and my heart goes out to you. I hope you are enjoying the holiday season (I have yet to begin all the Christmas decorations etc...I am beginning to feel a little bit behind. Hopefully this weekend I can start decorating and cards). One thing for sure, you should find a few minutes and do something nice for yourself (read a book, have a pedicure, sleep for a few hours, whatever relaxes you). You deserve to be taken care of too.

e, still learning this lesson myself

From: mynelltx

Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:00 PM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject: Nurture Give & Take

Hi e,I wanted to respond to your post to new member Chloe. My husband and Ihave been married for 22 years. I am NT he is AS. First of all Iapplaud you & your husband for constantly rising to the challenges inlife and not letting them defeat you. I am sure you are bothexceptional people, but being NT I can't help but feel for youe. Your story reminds me of "A Beautiful Mind". F. Nashcertainly deserves the recognition he has attained through the years,but what about his wife? She had to re-invent the way her family wasgoing to be raised and the way their lives would be lived almost everystep of the way. She, like you must be a very strong woman to havehung in there and given up so much to care for the needs and demandsof her family. My husband is gifted and superior on many levels at hisprofession. His relationship skills however could use improvement. Youwrote of dealing with always being in the nurturing role in yourrelationship. My son is about to start college and once again I amcaught in the middle as my husband behaves as though this is a case ofsibling rivalry rather than partnering w/me to get the tasks at handaccomplished. It is the height of holiday madness and as I interactwith college counselors, student aide officials and admittanceadministrators (alone) and make sure we enjoy the holidays myhusband's agenda is on another page in a parallel universe. He hasdecided to clean out the garage and park the clutter in the kitchenand dinning area. He is also trying to get me involved with starting anew project of turning the storage room into a work shop. Thisbehavior is typical whenever my son has extra needs (the start ofschool, band, school trips etc). The reason I am writing is becauseyou mentioned that you & your husband were able to get past this verydraining behavior. I would welcome any advice, books, resources youused to get past this. I too feel towards my husband as though he wereanother child and have zero interest in marital relations with him.Best wishes for a happy holiday season. Thank you for any informationyou may have. Bless You.Karmyn

[Guest guest]

, you made the statement "we act the way we feel"

That's an interesting statement.. I find that when I'm trying to make a point to e (whether it gets escalated to an argument or remains a simple low key exchange), I find myself compelled to .. straighten up the room. I've never been able to figure this thing out, but it's like I am not capable of carrying on a discussion about intense subjects without at some point picking up stray objects and putting them away. e's never commented on it (she's not one to comment offhandedly anyway), but it's got me wondering if this is related to the act the way we feel thing.

e's right, I do involve myself in projects.. I think everyone does, but it is very disruptive to my train of thought if someone tries to divert my attention. I know that I "do things" when I need to think.. it's like I nee to keep the executive part of my brain busy.. the part tied to my body.. in order to separate myself from the intensity of a situation and think it through. If I cannot separate myself from a scenario that is overwhelming, I'll wait until the intensity dies down and it can be dealt with appropriately. If something absolutely demands my immediate attention and I can not avoid it, it is quite a struggle to bypass the analysis instinct.. I've come to use a simple device to get past it though.. I flip a coin.

Well, I don't think I'm making any one point here, and I gotta feed the monsters before they knock the house down again.

Whoops, here let me knock the font up a notch too.. blooop.. better?

Ta da!

Usarian

[Guest guest]

Usarian wrote:

> , you made the statement " we act the way we feel "

>

> That's an interesting statement.. I find that when I'm trying to make a

> point to e (whether it gets escalated to an argument or remains a

> simple low key exchange), I find myself compelled to .. straighten up

> the room. I've never been able to figure this thing out, but it's like

> I am not capable of carrying on a discussion about intense subjects

> without at some point picking up stray objects and putting them away.

I'd guess *my* wife would wish me to do the same (...put away).

My own compulsion is to pick up (*my* project) stuff and put related

things into a neat little collection " out of the way " .

But where I can *see* the (yet another) pile and be reminded to " do

something! " with it. ...In due time, when I've figured just what.

Asidem: Yes, it does all get " handled " . Though all too often it all

winds up in my sanctum sanctorum -- *my* home office (playpen).

> e's never commented on it (she's not one to comment offhandedly

> anyway), but it's got me wondering if this is related to the act the way

> we feel thing.

>

> e's right, I do involve myself in projects.. I think everyone

> does,

Was she not " complaining " about the *appropriateness* of the projects?

*Not* that you started them - but that you'd missed her point?

> but it is very disruptive to my train of thought if someone tries

> to divert my attention.

And maybe missed it again, above. Where you avoid her issue and divert

attention from her need to one of your own?

*No offense* meant here! Just one AS to another AS. Each-one-teach-one

as we approach accommodation to an overwhelmingly NT world.

[ snip ]

> Whoops, here let me knock the font up a notch too.. blooop.. better?

Yes! But the font " weight " now is reduced a bit - its color is more

gray that black. It's also a hair bigger than need be; possibly a

result of changing the face/font as well as the size:

--------------------------------------------------

<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=4>, you made

we feel " </FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=4></FONT> & nbsp;</DIV>

--------------------------------------------------

If you want, email me off-list. Play a bit, and *test* what your

readers might see. But wa-a-ay mo'bettah: stick to plain text/ascii.

>

> Ta da!

>

> Usarian

- Bill, over-30, dx AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

>> e's never commented on it (she's not one to comment offhandedly

>> anyway), but it's got me wondering if this is related to the act the way

>> we feel thing.

>>

>> e's right, I do involve myself in projects.. I think everyone

>> does,

>

>Was she not " complaining " about the *appropriateness* of the projects?

>*Not* that you started them - but that you'd missed her point?

>> but it is very disruptive to my train of thought if someone tries

>> to divert my attention.

>

>And maybe missed it again, above. Where you avoid her issue and divert

>attention from her need to one of your own?

>

>*No offense* meant here! Just one AS to another AS. Each-one-teach-one

>as we approach accommodation to an overwhelmingly NT world.

Basically the flow is:

1) family encounters stressful situation

2) Wife is type A executive as is her father. Act first, worry about

consequences later.

3) husband is hard core analyzer and refuses to take action until every

possibility has been accounted for.

4) conflict ensues.

She would feel that I was dodging my responsibilities or frozen by fear or

who knows what.. incapable of action basically. She expects immediate

action.

I happen to be the one to whom the responsibility falls for this particular

(theoretical) issue, OR, even more frustrating to her, I trump her decided

course of action with " lets just step back for a few days and think " <--

this is usually not expressed that clearly by either side.. we'd be

discussing the specifics and getting very worked up about the partners

opposition to our opinion, and both of us feel the issue is far too

important to do it the other's way. She used to just do it her way

regardless of what I said or thought with the feeling that I had already

failed and wasn't capable of acting. 10 years later, that doesn't happen

anymore. (this is obviously purely my perspective, and I don't want to have

some sort of martial quarrel on list.. I'm sure she'll jump in with her side

later for balance)

For example, her thing about expecting me to be a man and make my own

decisions and fall on them. We both learned that lesson. I needed to let

her fall on her own decisions as well, without predicting the fall and

without comment when she did. Eventually we started honoring each other's

decisions and divying up the responsibilities and not questioning each other

methods or judgment in those areas. good example: money-- grocery budget..

well, we call it grocery, but it's more like " not bills " .. everything else..

I give her an amount, and how she spends it is all her, and I am only

" allowed " (just my own internal rule) to say anything except positive

remarks.. " wow you got a lot of food this week " , " yea, he really needed

clothes " , etc. .. I used to nitpick excessively " you went to Taco Bell?

That was GROCERY money! " .. thinking I was " training " her into good budgeting

behaviors.. instead I was adding to the schism.. she did things too of

course that were legitimately bad ideas, but I was crying wolf.

On the other hand, if she sent me to the store to get milk, I'd be gone for

an hour while I shopped three stores across town and got the best price!

What was my point again...?

Right.. projects.. she didn't think it was appropriate to go build a website

when we have major issues to deal with.. what she didn't understand was that

I was separating myself from the issue so I could mull it over in the back

of my head. She used to just act, then I would go do it my way and she'd

have acted already because she thought I had jumped ship on it.

*HER NEED* was for me to behave like her father.. ie, like a man.

*MY NEED* was for her to give me space to think.

That was what (I believe) she was saying to whoever it was, she learned to

let me do things my way, and if I put it off too long and screwed it all up

by doing so, it was fully on my shoulders.

She's NEVER been one to gloat at all, so if I do screw up, I don't hear

about it ever again, except to remind me if I need an honest reminder, and I

receive it that way if I do.

I've broken my own cardinal rule: fewest words possible.

I hope the point got across alright this time.

Concerning the text bit, using plain text again this time. I've looked at

the HTML, and it appears my mail software is explicitly declaring font where

you all's doesn't declare font family or size at all. It does seem odd to

me that it would default to an explicit callout like that.

Here is a fantastic article on how font sizes are interpreted from HTML

differently by different systems:

http://www.netmechanic.com/news/vol3/design_no8.htm

I'll scrounge around and see if I can encase a CSS style header in my

outgoing mail.

ciao!

-Usarian