Re: Dishwasher question

[Guest guest]

Oddly enough, a similar thing has happened to me. For years and years I have

not had a water leak in home and this past year I had two. A leak in a lower

roof that covers a mudroom, (paint started falling off the wall to let me know),

and after a storm blew some shingles off room, a leak in roof that the water

came down into an unused bedroom so that we didn't even notice it for awhile.

I keep having new lessons to learn. New lesson: even if an unused room doesn't

need to be cleaned as often, it needs to be checked as often as if it did, so

now when I'm cleaning house, I don't skip that room anymore.

Luckily I have plaster walls, otherwise it would be a much bigger repair.

Also I have same issues, migraines back but air is clean of mold SPORES. This

may be, in my case, probably due to the excellent filters I have in place on my

HVAC system but it cannot catch VOCS, so I have more work to be done than I

expected.

Could be spores cannot get into area but the VOCs can or it could be bacterial

and mold culture plates do not grow bacterial contaminants...I don't think.

Anyway, if you've had water damage and you don't feel well, I would do more

clean up. I've stopped worrying about " what the pathogen is " . I used to but I

need to save the money for repair.

If you have a legal case, that's different. Then you need to draw a connection

between the water damage and your health. In this case, you don't. Anyway,

that's my opinion. I've learned enough to know I don't know enough but that's

what I'd do.

>

> I'm having a problem in my kitchen. After a year and a half of really mold

free living I had 2 leaks in my kitchen. So I pulled out all the formica

cabinets that got wet but I'm still feeling sick even after a few weeks.

[Guest guest]

Before you run your dishwasher again, slide a few pieces of paper under it, try

to get them near the ingoing and outgoing water connections.

Turn your dw on and let it run a few minutes, (3-4 might be enough time) then

pull the papers out to see if they are wet at all--even one drop of water is too

much. If you have even one drop, if you don't want to repair it, take it out and

get a new one.

Before you replace it, check the empty space. Consider getting a 2 " hole bit for

a drill, and drill out 2-3 " plugs " , maybe near the floor above the baseboard,

and check the back of them and inside the wall for mold. No matter the result,

use one of those mold detection kits in that empty space. Tnen, no matter the

results, consider spraying vinegar water and then bleach water over the area,

then even paint it with kilz even if there's no sign of mold or weak areas. If

there is, remove the damaged areas and replace.

What do you mean you pulled out all the formica cabinets? Completely away from

the walls? The bases too? Weren't they nailed/screwed to the walls under the

shelf top? That's a major job. Did you remove the sink cabinet, too? Did you

check the support members UNDER the cabinets, and the walls behind them?

How long did you keep the plates and watch them?

Sorry--I don't mean to be offensive, a friend went through this recently.

Ella

>

> I'm having a problem in my kitchen. After a year and a half of really mold

free living I had 2 leaks in my kitchen. So I pulled out all the formica

cabinets that got wet but I'm still feeling sick even after a few weeks.

> I know I've been sensitized and now every little thing will bother me so I'm

wondering is my 19 year dishwasher hiding a speck of mold? It's old and not

working so well and has had its share of leaks over the years.

>

> Oh! And I bought 2 mold test kits from Lowe's which have always worked for me

and they both register absolutely no mold spores at all! I don;t know what to do

now. My eyes hurt, my throat hurts, I am waking up with migraines again and

needless to say, I'm super depressed. To me that means mold! But where is it? (I

can't afford a new kitchen so renovating besides killing me is out of the

question.)

>

> I would pull out the darn dishwasher and throw it away. I probably will. But

anyone have any experience with a moldy dishwasher? Or any other suggestions?

>

> Thanks and I hope everyone has a wonderful mold-free Thanksgiving!

>

> Surella

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

It is my understading if you have merv rated filters of 11 or more the readings

on the mold spores will be off.  Even if you have a mold problems. If you have

in addition HEPA filtration then even more off.

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: Barb B W <barb1283@...>

Sent: Wed, November 25, 2009 11:11:47 AM

Subject: [] Re: Dishwasher question

 

Oddly enough, a similar thing has happened to me. For years and years I have not

had a water leak in home and this past year I had two. A leak in a lower roof

that covers a mudroom, (paint started falling off the wall to let me know), and

after a storm blew some shingles off room, a leak in roof that the water came

down into an unused bedroom so that we didn't even notice it for awhile.

[Guest guest]

Yes, that's what I mean. I'm sure there is mold but because of my filters, I'm

probably catching alot of that, but VOCS are giving me a headache. I have a

MERV 16 on HVAC, so for sure that will affect using mold plates. I don't care

to test for mold spores anymore. I learned alot but now go by my symptoms,

seeing water damage and odor. That tells me enough. I might do mold plates if

I ever moved to another place though or other testing done but for my own home,

if there is water damage and I can smell anything or I get old symptoms back,

that is clear enough for me.

If you wanted to do testing, you could turn off your HVAC, wait a few hours,

then put a simple fan in room to stir up whats around, put out plate and turn

fan off at same time, so mold can settle out of air and into plate.

I became less interested in mold plates after moving into an apartment after not

being able to catch any mold in plates, but noticed halls and basement of places

had an odor, but it was ONLY place I tested and got no mold growth in

plates,then became very ill after moving in. Realized the mold was just not

airborne because it had radiators instead of forced air system, so it just

wasn't airborne. However I'd still do them if I was moving to a new place. I

would just stir up the air with a fan. Tough to do all these things while

shopping for an apartment though....bring a fan, mold plates, etc!!!! If place

looked clean and smelled clean and I was considering it, I'd probably do a

different test, like a dust test, maybe and a plate test since they are so

inexpensive but stir up the air first, test the halls and other areas. The air

gets into your unit even if the problem is elsewhere.

>

It is my understading if you have merv rated filters of 11 or more the readings

on the mold spores will be off.  Even if you have a mold problems. If you have

in addition HEPA filtration then even more off.

>  

>

> God Bless !!

> dragonflymcs

> Mayleen

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the info.  What do you do if looking for a a place and the

elctric is off ??  And you cannot find it right away??

Where I am all someone has to do is fluff a sheet and I cannot breathe.

 

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: Barb BW <barb1283@...>

Sent: Wed, November 25, 2009 12:30:24 PM

Subject: [] Re: Dishwasher question

 

Yes, that's what I mean. I'm sure there is mold but because of my filters, I'm

probably catching alot of that, but VOCS are giving me a headache. I have a MERV

16 on HVAC, so for sure that will affect using mold plates. I don't care to test

for mold spores anymore. I learned alot but now go by my symptoms, seeing water

damage and odor. That tells me enough.

[Guest guest]

Here is more information on MERV ratings

https://www.safehomefilters.com/index.php?/Common-Questions/FAQ-MERV.html

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: Barb B W <barb1283@...>

Sent: Wed, November 25, 2009 11:11:47 AM

Subject: [] Re: Dishwasher question

 

Oddly enough, a similar thing has happened to me. For years and years I have not

had a water leak in home and this past year I had two. A leak in a lower roof

that covers a mudroom, (paint started falling off the wall to let me know), and

after a storm blew some shingles off room, a leak in roof that the water came

down into an unused bedroom so that we didn't even notice it for awhile.

I keep having n

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your good wishes, Hapy Thanksgiving !!

Here is an article on Merv Filters:

As a practical matter, let's see how we can use the MERV rating. One example

would be mold spores. What filter would we recommend if we were concerned with

pulling out a high percentage of mold? Mold varies in size from about 4 microns

to 40 microns. The greatest number of mold spores are less than 10 microns in

diameter. If we look at our chart a MERV 8 filter will pull out at least an

average of 70% of the particles down to 3 microns. Not a bad recommendation.

However, for just a little more money pleated filters are available in a MERV

11. The MERV 11 would give you an average of at least 85% mold removal. For all

those but the most mold sensitive this should be adequate.

http://allergyclean.com/article-understandingmerv.htm

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

[Guest guest]

Yeah the cabinet removal was a big job-luckily the guy who put in my kitchen was

nice enough to come over and remove piece by piece. The entire base, the sides,

the pieces of wood that supported the base, even the big piece that just backed

the cabinets was removed-all had mold. Also, the trim under ALL the cabinets

were removed, just in case water touched them.

Thanks for the idea about plugging a hole behind the wall of the sink to look

for mold-that wasn't removed-I don;t know why. Still though don't you think the

mold test would have picked something up? It's Wednesday, I started the test

Monday, and even though I'll give it a few more days to grow, really there just

isn't anything in the plate.

I will probably pull the dishwasher out and examine the wall behind it too.

Isn't this about the time when you start thinking you're crazy?

Thanks for your input! Surella

> >

> > I'm having a problem in my kitchen. After a year and a half of really mold

free living I had 2 leaks in my kitchen. So I pulled out all the formica

cabinets that got wet but I'm still feeling sick even after a few weeks.

> > I know I've

[Guest guest]

Hi Surella,

I don't think it's a bad idea to replace the dishwasher if you can. Either it's

leaking now or it could soon, given its age.

Forgive me if this is obvious but did you wash down your kitchen after the

cabinets were removed? I'd go over all surfaces to try to decontaminate after

work like that--ceiling, walls, floor, inside cabinets, dishes, etc.

Amy

[Guest guest]

If the mold id in a growth cycle, it can put out mycotoxins without any spores

out plugging a hole behind the wall of the sink to look for mold-that wasn't

removed-I don;t know why. Still though don't you think the mold test would have

picked something up? It's Wednesday, I started the test Monday, and even though

I'll give it a few more days to grow, really there just isn't anything in the

plate.

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, thank you, I did wipe everything down (picture me on a stool with a rag

wiping down the entire ceiling!)I do think it's the dishwasher and of course

being Thanksgiving weekend, I don't know if I can get anyone to take it out

today but I want it out NOW!

Thanks for your suggestions and don't worry, nothing is too obvious to

mention-when we get brain fog it is amazing the obvious things we totally forget

to do.

>

> Hi Surella,

>

> I don't think it's a bad idea to replace the dishwasher if you can. Either

it's leaking now or it could soon, given its age.

>

> Forgive me if this is obvious but did you wash down your kitchen after the

cabinets were removed? I'd go over all surfaces to try to decontaminate after

work like that--ceiling, walls, floor, inside cabinets, dishes, etc.

>

> Amy

>

[Guest guest]

-what does this mean exactly? Should I test again in a month? Thanks,

Surella

>

> If the mold id in a growth cycle, it can put out mycotoxins without any spores

>

>

> out plugging a hole behind the wall of the sink to look for mold-that wasn't

removed-I don;t know why. Still though don't you think the mold test would have

picked something up? It's Wednesday, I started the test Monday, and even though

I'll give it a few more days to grow, really there just isn't anything in the

plate.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It means that as long as the mold is getting moisture, it will be in a growth

period, putting out toxin, to clear the way for the growth of the colony. I can

feel the toxin if an area has been wet for over a few hrs. When the moisture

dries up, the colony will sporulate. This is why testing can be useless

> >

> > If the mold id in a growth cycle, it can put out mycotoxins without any

spores

> >

> >

> > out plugging a hole behind the wall of the sink to look for mold-that wasn't

removed-I don;t know why. Still though don't you think the mold test would have

picked something up? It's Wednesday, I started the test Monday, and even though

I'll give it a few more days to grow, really there just isn't anything in the

plate.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, the tests registered a tiny bit of mold on the dishwasher side-a dot

(amazing because my basement which I fixed registered the most disgusting crop

of mold originally). And it registered more mold under the sink part.

Now I'm going to remove the dishwasher Monday but I fear I will have to start

pulling out cabinets that I can't afford to replace.

I have no strength for this really and no support at all except my 80 year old

mother-my husband hates me because of this-but I guess I'll be ripping apart my

beautiful kitchen.

>

> It means that as long as the mold is getting moisture, it will be in a growth

period, putting out toxin, to clear the way for the growth of the colony. I can

feel the toxin if an area has been wet for over a few hrs. When the moisture

dries up, the colony will sporulate. This is why testing can be useless

>

[Guest guest]

There are many experts on this group, I would definitely reach out to them

before you rip apart your beautiful kitchen. The mold tests can be fickle

and you can have mold growth as mold is everywhere without it being an

issue. The only way to know if there are elevated levels is to send the test

away, I am assuming you have a ProLab test or something similar. I would

definitely do that and get the results before you rip out the cabinets.

Take care,

.

On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 7:32 PM, surellabaer <surellabaer@...> wrote:

> Well, the tests registered a tiny bit of mold on the dishwasher side-a dot

> (amazing because my basement which I fixed registered the most disgusting

> crop of mold originally). And it registered more mold under the sink part.

> Now I'm going to remove the dishwasher Monday but I fear I will have to

> start pulling out cabinets that I can't afford to replace.

> I have no strength for this really and no support at all except my 80 year

> old mother-my husband hates me because of this-but I guess I'll be ripping

> apart my beautiful kitchen.

>

>

[Guest guest]

My friend had the dishwasher pulled out, then _only_ the bottom shelf of the

sink cabinet and the bottom shelf of the cabinet next to it by a handyman. Some

supports under the sink had some mold and all were replaced. A few 2 " holes

drilled into the back wall to determine mold behind the wallboard. Then after

the space was vinegared, bleached, and kilzed, new supports were placed, and new

bottom shelfs. The cabinets were never removed: it wasn't necessary. It cost her

the handyman's time and 2 pieces of plywood, kilz, and a bit of sealer for the

shelfs.

There was no mold under the shelf next to the sink in her kitchen.

One handyman estimated the cost to be 4000 to 5000, it cost her less than 200.

Ella

>

Now I'm going to remove the dishwasher Monday but I fear I will have to

start pulling out cabinets that I can't afford to replace.

....but I guess I'll be ripping apart my beautiful kitchen.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks-I am doing something similar-I am going to pull out the dishwasher today

and if the guy will do me a favor I'm going to ask him to pull out the panel

behind the dishwasher. I am just going to pull out until the kitchen doesn't

make me react. I'm just afraid it's behind a corner group of cabinets that will

be impossible to get to.

> >

> Now I'm going to remove the dishwasher Monday but I fear I will have to

> start pulling out cabinets that I can't afford to replace.

> ...but I guess I'll be ripping apart my beautiful kitchen.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Here is the thing about experts and mold testing-they are super expensive and

the best test I know of is how my eyes feel. And my eyes are telling me there's

mold. Just a tiny bit but enough for me to feel it and if I keep breathing it I

will feel worse and worse.

I had an expert for my basement and while she was amazing she cost me thousands

of dollars and I don;t have any money left for anything anymore.

Believe me if I had the money none of this would be an issue-my kitchen is old-I

would just replace it-people do it all the time when they have the money. And I

can't even take out a loan because I borrowed the money for the first

remediation and can't pay that off either.

>

> There are many experts on this group, I would definitely reach out to them

> before you rip apart your beautiful kitchen. The mold tests can be fickle

> and you can have mold growth as mold is everywhere without it being an

> issue. The only way to know if there are elevated levels is to send the test

> away, I am assuming you have a ProLab test or something similar. I would

> definitely do that and get the results before you rip out the cabinets.

>

> Take care,

>

> .

>