Guest guest Posted November 20, 2008 Report Share Posted November 20, 2008 Kathy and all, I agree that it's important to lobby for the LCAT lines in the OMH agencies and hospitals. It's also very frustrating that NYCCAT does not yet have the infrastructure in place to make efforts toward this goal right now. I'm not entirely certain why OMH employee might be reluctant to discuss the situation in this group, but if having a private space to discuss it helps to further these goals, then by all means. At present, a relatively small amount of money has been collected by NYCCAT through this e-group, and I wonder if the majority of members of this group plan to join NYCCAT and pay dues when the time comes, and how many inactive accounts are on the e-group roster. It feels like we are the smallest and least influential of the professions that were recently licensed, and unless we work on building a solid infra-structure and raising money, we will not be able to effect any changes except on a grass-roots level. Unfortunately, that is a slow road and does not always sway the powers that be. I hope that you or someone else involved in this endeavor can attend NYCCAT meetings to let us know what the goals of this effort are, and if there is anything NYCCAT can offer you in this work. This affects everyone, not only those who currently work for OMH, but in creating new jobs it may affect many more in the CAT community. Also, please update the rest of the membership if there is news to report from your E-group. Thanks, -Jon Borah NYCCAT Board I considered starting a community group, which would have forums, live chat, etc. I have adminstrated on groups in communityzero for a number of years, they have a great inexpensive format. I had written NYCAT about doing this a year ago and never got an answer. Things have only gotten worse in the past year. OMH employees need to act now. Some of us are in danger of loosing our positions as budget cuts will be happening in January.It is quite possible that if we took care of the problems in OMH there could be lots of new jobs for lcats across the state, so it serves everyone, not just omh people. Which is why we should have NYCATs support.A separate listserve for this would help move things along also, because most people working in OMH are not going to discuss things in a forum that could include unknown people. A few people wrote to me asking to be included, even though they do not work in OMH. People are disturbed that things have moved so slowly. We understand that NYCAT has many issues to deal with, but we want to get involved and this seems to be the best way to start.Kathy Masone >> Also, Ailish and Kathy, NYCCAT is working on a new website that will have the capacity to have message boards and forums so that conversations like these and others can happen in one place. We are working for a start-up date early 2009. > It is certainly something we need. > Debbie Stone, Board Member> debbiestone@...> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2008 Report Share Posted November 21, 2008 Dear Jonathon, The political reality that you describe is exactly why I wanted us to follow the PA approach to licensure. It allowed CATs to be licensed as counselors and to be part of a larger political base. With our small numbers here in NYS, it is not surprising that CATs have little, if any, clout in the system. Since we cannot do anything about the NYCCAT’s idealistic, but impractical thinking during the licensure process, I want to respond to your other comments. You mention in-active accounts. Perhaps it’s because I live in western NY, but I have never received notification about NYCCAT dues. Even if I had, there is the other harsh reality called money. CATs have to pay dues to National Organizations and state CAT chapters. Asking people who are notoriously underpaid to donate to a fund for a lobbyist and to pay dues to an organization that has not adequately communicated with its membership does not make sense. Recently, I have read about two main concerns on this list serve: (1) the absence of career ladders or LCAT lines in OMH funded programs and (2) the limited opportunities for employment. Unfortunately some of the latter problem appears to be related to restrictions generated by the very licensure law that everyone worked so hard to get. The only response that I recall (I don’t read all the messages) was a call for money. I would like to see some accountability. Who is receiving the money? Who is managing it? Where is it housed? How, if at all, is it being spent? Since the web site is under construction and we don’t have any way of learning more about NYCCAT, how about starting with executive committee and board members introducing yourselves? Not only is the web site under construction and the mission on Yahoo is clearly dated – pre-licensure — so no one can get information from there. Unless we know what NYCCAT is doing, who is involved, what is actually happening, and where we can look for accountability, why should list serve members respond to intermittent requests for cash? Here are some other things I’d like to know: What happened to the coalition that worked for licensure? Has it fractured? If so, as your e-mail suggests, why? Jim Carr is still lobbying for NYMHCA. Why can’t he lobby for all of us as before? I realize we have to contribute to the pool to pay him and that it was hard for us to do that when we were working for licensure. Is that why we are no longer a coalition of professions and on our own? Sigh....there is power in numbers. Have you been communication with State Ed (e.g. Johanna Duncan Poitier), Office of Professions ( Hamilton) or the Regulatory Board (e.g., Joan Wittig)? What has been done about that call for therapeutic intervention that did not include CATS — a call, if I recall correctly from list messages, that may even have been explicit about not having CATS on board? How are you interfacing with the graduate programs? It doesn’t seem fair to encourage people to pursue CAT Masters’ Degrees if there are no jobs. Are you working with state CAT chapters such as the New York State Chapter of the American Dance Therapy Association or the government/legislative committees of the National CAT organizations or NCCATA? I understand the need for money, but until I know who is getting the money and where it is going, I am reluctant to send money to NYCCAT when there are so many other well-deserving organizations that are asking me for membership fees and donations. One thing you can do right now without contributions is update the NYCCAT vision and mission. Why not use the website as a start? Ask people what they would like to see included in NYCCAT’s purpose. That could be a first step to rebuilding the NYCCAT community. Sincerely, le Fraenkel ____________________________________________________ le L. Fraenkel, Ph.D., ADTR, NCC, LCAT, LMHC, CGP Director, Kinections www.kinections.com At Imagine Square 718 University Avenue Rochester, NY 14607 USA TEL: FAX: Kathy and all, I agree that it's important to lobby for the LCAT lines in the OMH agencies and hospitals. It's also very frustrating that NYCCAT does not yet have the infrastructure in place to make efforts toward this goal right now. I'm not entirely certain why OMH employee might be reluctant to discuss the situation in this group, but if having a private space to discuss it helps to further these goals, then by all means. At present, a relatively small amount of money has been collected by NYCCAT through this e-group, and I wonder if the majority of members of this group plan to join NYCCAT and pay dues when the time comes, and how many inactive accounts are on the e-group roster. It feels like we are the smallest and least influential of the professions that were recently licensed, and unless we work on building a solid infra-structure and raising money, we will not be able to effect any changes except on a grass-roots level. Unfortunately, that is a slow road and does not always sway the powers that be. I hope that you or someone else involved in this endeavor can attend NYCCAT meetings to let us know what the goals of this effort are, and if there is anything NYCCAT can offer you in this work. This affects everyone, not only those who currently work for OMH, but in creating new jobs it may affect many more in the CAT community. Also, please update the rest of the membership if there is news to report from your E-group. Thanks, -Jon Borah NYCCAT Board I considered starting a community group, which would have forums, live chat, etc. I have adminstrated on groups in communityzero for a number of years, they have a great inexpensive format. I had written NYCAT about doing this a year ago and never got an answer. Things have only gotten worse in the past year. OMH employees need to act now. Some of us are in danger of loosing our positions as budget cuts will be happening in January. It is quite possible that if we took care of the problems in OMH there could be lots of new jobs for lcats across the state, so it serves everyone, not just omh people. Which is why we should have NYCATs support. A separate listserve for this would help move things along also, because most people working in OMH are not going to discuss things in a forum that could include unknown people. A few people wrote to me asking to be included, even though they do not work in OMH. People are disturbed that things have moved so slowly. We understand that NYCAT has many issues to deal with, but we want to get involved and this seems to be the best way to start. Kathy Masone > > Also, Ailish and Kathy, NYCCAT is working on a new website that will have the capacity to have message boards and forums so that conversations like these and others can happen in one place. We are working for a start-up date early 2009. > It is certainly something we need. > Debbie Stone, Board Member > debbiestone@... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2008 Report Share Posted November 22, 2008 Dear , I am guessing that your response has a lot to do with your understanding of the bureaucracy within civil service. I imagine the "Sr. Recreation Therapist" title is one that exists already, and that we could make a case that our training as master's level therapists justifies a more senior position. It is unfortunate that it misses the point in a lot of ways (with no fault to you of course, just the way things are). I have no training in recreation therapy. It is a separate discipline (with its own training programs and professional associations and certification) that should be recognized and appreciated as such. Relatedly, I think creative arts therapies should be recognized as a separate and distinct discipline. We have a long way to go, and a lot of work on administrative levels. Civil service is a big machine. -Sharon Subject: Re: OMH LCAT's PEFTo: NYCCAT Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 10:42 AM Kathy,Thanks for reviving the discussion. Keep in mind that this is a Civil Service and all the state agencies that employ civil service workers issue. Also the state budget being as it is the likelyhood of change would be minimal since the chages to have us correctly titled would also include being appropriately compansated - i.e. pay raise. One change that we could all strive for would be establishing a Sr. Recreation Therapist title for all creative arts therapist. Currently there is only a title set aside for Music therapist on a salary grade 17 level. Even though we should be graded more in the 20's , like social workers and rehabilitation counselors, this would be a good and probably doable start. Good luck in your efforts. Walters LCAT-ATR>> I have thought about this for a long time, writing this letter has not been> an easy decision. There are few jobs for LCATS, yet lots of people> practicing art therapy. From what I am seeing, I do not believe this will> change in 2010. I believe we need to start speaking to each other about what> is going on in our OMH facilities. I am the only LCAT at my site, and I> believe that could be the same for many of you. We have so much to talk> about, and we could be helping each other. We need to get NYS to create a> line and a promotion ladder for us. We can share information on things like;> what departments we work under, who gives our clinical supervision, how many> clients we carry on our roster, how many groups in a week, what is being> done to keep us safe? When JCHO audits wouldn't you like to know if you are> up to par with all the other programs they visit? > > > > I have yet to have any luck posting messages on the listserve that was set> up by Albany, and quite frankly there are a lot of subjects I would not feel> comfortable talking through NYS controlled lines. I created a listserve here> on Yahoo, for any NYS OMH art therapist who wants to join. This listserve> would be for LCAT or LCAT eligible only. I am more than willing to do all> the leg work to confirm only these people enter this listserve so that we> can have privacy and unity.> > > > In the past we have had discussions that were cut short due to us> overwhelming the NYCCAT board. If we have our own listserve we can continue> these discussions without disrupting the NYCCAT coalition.> > This is the link if you want to join me.> http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ NYSLCAT> > Hope to hear from you,> > Kathy Masone, LCAT ATR-BC, CH> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2008 Report Share Posted November 23, 2008 What does "Civil Service" refer to? I am confused by your use of that term--or maybe just confused in general. Zapotechne MA ATR, LCAT-limited permitArt TherapistNew York CityTo: NYCCAT From: kwlcat@...Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:01:45 +0000Subject: Re: OMH LCAT's PEF Sharon, I guess you do not work in civil service. True, a Sr. Recration line does exist. Yet it is not seporated by creative arts disciplines besides Music Therapy. As you mentioned there is a great deal of bureaucracy within civil service. That's why attempting to work small and build up most likely will get a better response that trying to do too much. Especially in the current money mess that the state is in. And, yes, I do think that Creative Art Therapist should have their own lines seporate from Recreation Therapy. Most of us have master's degrees and licenses, both lacking with most Recreation Therapist. The problem is that Civil Service does not see a need to recognize advanced degrees and licenses when it comes to our discipline. Seniority and passing civil service exams are what counts. That's just the nature of the beast. Yet, with other disciplines, like Physical Therapy, Occupational Therapy, Social Work, and teaching it seems that advanced degrees and licenses do count and are part of the criteria for advancement and for that matter empoyment. Interestingly enough you don't need a license to practice Creative Arts Therapy in Civil Service. 2010 is when that might change. Until Creative Arts Therapy is seen in the same light as those titles, and other similar ones like Rehabilitation Counselor, we will still be seen as we currently are. For most of us, I'm sure the monitary advances would be very important. For me I'd like to see that my efforts in education and licensing have not gone to waste. Being appropriately title would give me the sense of acknowledgement that I'm looking for. > > > > I have thought about this for a long time, writing this letter has > not been > > an easy decision. There are few jobs for LCATS, yet lots of people > > practicing art therapy. From what I am seeing, I do not believe > this will > > change in 2010. I believe we need to start speaking to each other > about what > > is going on in our OMH facilities. I am the only LCAT at my site, > and I > > believe that could be the same for many of you. We have so much to > talk > > about, and we could be helping each other. We need to get NYS to > create a > > line and a promotion ladder for us. We can share information on > things like; > > what departments we work under, who gives our clinical > supervision, how many > > clients we carry on our roster, how many groups in a week, what is > being > > done to keep us safe? When JCHO audits wouldn't you like to know > if you are > > up to par with all the other programs they visit? > > > > > > > > I have yet to have any luck posting messages on the listserve that > was set > > up by Albany, and quite frankly there are a lot of subjects I > would not feel > > comfortable talking through NYS controlled lines. I created a > listserve here > > on Yahoo, for any NYS OMH art therapist who wants to join. This > listserve > > would be for LCAT or LCAT eligible only. I am more than willing to > do all > > the leg work to confirm only these people enter this listserve so > that we > > can have privacy and unity. > > > > > > > > In the past we have had discussions that were cut short due to us > > overwhelming the NYCCAT board. If we have our own listserve we can > continue > > these discussions without disrupting the NYCCAT coalition. > > > > This is the link if you want to join me. > > http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ NYSLCAT > > > > Hope to hear from you, > > > > Kathy Masone, LCAT ATR-BC, CH > > > Get more done, have more fun, and stay more connected with Windows Mobile®. See how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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