diagnosis

[Guest guest]

Oh, thanks, I am a little slow, must be the brain fog! ;>)

diagnosis

>

>

> I am not sure what to feel. I am 37 and have been feeling bad

since I

> was about 18. I just got diagnosed and they want to put me on

seroquel.

> a med for schizophrenics! I never knew this was a real ailment.

I

> thought it was a fancy name for hypochondria. Early on I did the

doctor

> thing and had ALL THE TESTS. then came the shrinks and the meds.

I

> seldom see doctors now and havent been complaining of much

except for

> the numbness and tingling in my hands and feet in the AM. i have

> learned to accept the stiffness and muscle pain. I don't know

what to

> do now. I started to believe I was " just lazy " or too sedentary "

etc. I

> am discouraged and do not have a supportive spouse. He will

never buy

> into a sickness with no difiniative test to determine it. I am

so

> tired......................

>

[Guest guest]

jim said:

I got to the breaking point in our marriage just as I discovered that my wife likely has Asperger's. I figure that it's best for me to understand the condition to cope better, to help our kids and to help her. I want to tell my wife to see a psychiatrist for a diagnosis, but I'm not sure how to approach that and would appreciate suggestions. Thanks.

me here: it has been my bitter personal experience and reflected here on this list that getting an AS male to accept and receive a diagnosis of As is difficult.

getting an As woman to do same may be less difficult.

i would see a psychologist who specialises in Autistic spectrum disorders before i see a psychiatrist.

psychiatrists tend to miss AS. and diagnose schozotypal/schizophrenia.

instead.

many psychologists claim to be experts inAS but it would be worthwhile to invest some research time into chosing and selcting an approprioate posychologist. even see the psychologist on your own to get advice on how to approach your wife, short of specific examples i am reduced to giving generic responses.

36 m diagnosed AS

[Guest guest]

>>I got to the breaking point in our marriage just as I discovered that my wife likely has Asperger's. I figure that it's best for me to understand the condition to cope better, to help our kids and to help her. I want to tell my wife to see a psychiatrist for a diagnosis, but I'm not sure how to approach that and would appreciate suggestions. Thanks.<<

Hi, I am a woman with Asperger's. First, I am glad that you are willing to learn about Asperger's. My husband says he doesn't need to because it doesn't have anything to do with him. This is an extremely difficult thing to go through. It needs to be approached with caring and consideration. Approach it from the stand point that AS is a GOOD thing, not a standpoint of "I know something is wrong with you and I think it is AS." There ARE good points to AS. I explained in my other post to Elaine about the grieving process I went through. However I have gotten to the point where I am happy to be AS and believe that the trade off for what I have lost is reasonable. I think it is incredibly important to approach AS not as a diagnosis of something that is wrong with a person but as an answer to problems, as an answer to the past. While she may not be aware she probably DOES have things from her past that she's never been able to figure out WHY they happened. If you can offer a reason to some of those whys it may open her mind to hearing you on this.

If she's anything like me, telling her to get a diagnosis will only make her dig her heels into the dirt and cause her to think you are arrogant. The side approach offering explanations to life long problems is much more likely to succeed. Also I wouldn't go straight to diagnosis. I would first see if you could get her to join a list like this one where she can gradually get used to the idea, where she can see that there are others with AS who live productive lives and who are ok and/or happy with being AS.

Also and this is a huge thing. If you learn about AS and are able to change your response to her AS behaviors that can help lower her self defense. And able to change your ways of talking to her, approaching her, etc. She is after all a woman, if she feels loved and cared for she will not be nearly so crazy.

Jennie diagnosed AS married 12 yrs homeschools 3 kids

[Guest guest]

>>Jim said: I appreciate the feedback. Is it possible for an AS wife to change? I'm 51 and can't imagine how I'm going to live out the rest of my life without any affection or positive feedback.<<

Jim,

I believe it is important to learn the difference between what may be attributed to AS and what can be attributed to personality. My mother is likely AS, though she is not diagnosed. I am diagnosed AS. My mother is excessively self centered to the extent that when her daughter, my sister, was dying of cancer and requested that our mother come and sit with her, maybe read to her or something, our mother refused to go. Her reason? She needed to harvest her garden and take care of her cow. The real reason was that my mom just does not like to be around sick people so that was that. She would not push herself to experience something uncomfortable for the sake of her daughter. She in fact told me that she does not think she 'could' (notice she thinks she's the victim) do this for any of her children. (Naturally that made me feel loved. LOL) My sister died shortly there after. I on the other hand would never in a thousand years do that to my kids. I have come to the place where I believe my mother is this way because she has made a life of choosing to never be uncomfortable (in other words, self focused and selfish). I have made a life of choosing to be uncomfortable if it means improving myself, or meeting other people's needs. So in a round about way of answering your question I do not believe that being AS means I can never give anyone positive feed back or affection. Here is what I have done in my life to over come my AS obstacles.

I limit the amount of contact I have with people outside my immediate family so that I am able to reach out to my kids and husband the way that they need. This means I have requested my few friends that they not hug me, ever, because too much physical contact drives me batty, and as you know a marriage (should) include a lot of physical contact. Plus kids need hugs and caring. Additionally I only allow a certain amount of activities outside the home so that I don't over tax my senses. If I am busy, busy, busy all the time, or stressed all the time, I simply cannot meet the needs of my husband and children, my mind and body simply shut down. Therefore there are many things in my life I have simply put on hold indefinitely. Some things I believe I will be able to reinstate once the kids are up and out as that constant contact will not be there any more. But the point is, I am AS and I have made these choices in order to maximize my ability to reach out to my family. One reason for this is that I have been determined to not be like my mother.

Hope this helps,

Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

Jim wrote:

 They'd give

> " homework "  and she'd never do her part like

> show affection or say nice things.  I'd just get more

> and more frustrated.   

Welcome to Aspires, Jim!

You say your wife says that she cares for you. Have you asked her to give you a

list of how she shows her care/concern/affection? You might be surprised that

she's expressing it, but because the acts are either super mundane or rather out

of the ordinary, you haven't noticed or appreciated them as genuine displays of

affection. The " homework " frustrated her, too, because she feels she IS showing

you affection and like nothing she does will make you happy.

In a moment of pique just after we learned of my husband's diagnosis (about 18

month ago; we've been together for over 20 years), I asked my husband how he

showed me that he cared. He provided me with a very long and detailed list of

practical actions, including items like " I oil the squeaky doors. "

My hearing is not in the least sensitive and I don't notice squeaky doors. His

hearing is hunting dog sensitive, and squeaky anything drives him crazy..

Thus we learned that he is expecting praise for doing something for me when he

was doing something that only pleases himself. This makes him sound

self-centered, but he genuinely thought he was " doing unto others. " This is part

of the " theory of mind " issues you might have read about in the AS literature.

Over the course of the last 18 months, he has learned to ask what he can do to

make my day easier, rather than trying to guess. I've learned to be WAY more

direct about what I need, often telling him before he asks or guesses.. Am also

trying to be better humored about the things he does that are intended to be

kind and generous, even if they don't appear that way to me.

The easy part has been defining the practical acts of care. He likes lists and

clear cut direction. My struggle is communicating my emotional needs clearly and

giving him practical instruction on how to meet them. (If anyone has discovered

some way to do this, please enlighten me!)

[Guest guest]

>there is one here on the list who will discuss the relationship between giftedness and AS. he will let himself know to you in time.

>it is very highly likely to be inherited and there is a high likelihood that AS can be linked to giftedness.

Uh.. I actually just mentioned my kid, but I'm not this person.. I would love to hear from them tho

There is very little material available on Gifted Aspergers. My boy was dignosed each condition seperately. (I had been unaware before this that giftedness was a diagnosed condition!)

They thought he would not result in giftedness because he has AS, but he did. So I got looking up both on the internet and only found a couple articles talking about G/AS as distinct, but I'll tell you what, it nailed who my kid is better than anything else I've read!

anyway...

Usaraian

From: david bailey

Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:36 PM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject: Re: diagnosis

jim said:

I appreciate the feedback. Is it possible for an AS wife to change? I'm 51 and can't imagine how I'm going to live out the rest of my life without any affection or positive feedback.

me here:

she can change, so can you. it is likely that you will both need to if you want to continue together.

you said:

Can you recommed books addressing AS in adults and marriage. Do you recommend "Cognitive-Behavior al Therapy for Adult Asperger Syndrome "by Gaus?

me here: i dont read the books anymore.

i have not read the one you have mentioned, but i am sure someone on this list has.

you said:

Does it tend to be inherited? My son likely has it. My daughter is highly gifted and I wonder if this is common with an AS parent.

me here: yes, it is.

my father, has it, i have it and so does my son.

there is one here on the list who will discuss the relationship between giftedness and AS. he will let himself know to you in time.

it is very highly likely to be inherited and there is a high likelihood that AS can be linked to giftedness.

you said:

I'm very confused. Thanks.

me here: no need to be confused. ask anything, you will get an answer that cannot be found in a book.

36 m diagnosed AS

Re: [aspires-relationsh ips] diagnosis

jim said:

I got to the breaking point in our marriage just as I discovered that my wife likely has Asperger's. I figure that it's best for me to understand the condition to cope better, to help our kids and to help her. I want to tell my wife to see a psychiatrist for a diagnosis, but I'm not sure how to approach that and would appreciate suggestions. Thanks.

me here: it has been my bitter personal experience and reflected here on this list that getting an AS male to accept and receive a diagnosis of As is difficult.

getting an As woman to do same may be less difficult.

i would see a psychologist who specialises in Autistic spectrum disorders before i see a psychiatrist.

psychiatrists tend to miss AS. and diagnose schozotypal/ schizophrenia.

instead.

many psychologists claim to be experts inAS but it would be worthwhile to invest some research time into chosing and selcting an approprioate posychologist. even see the psychologist on your own to get advice on how to approach your wife, short of specific examples i am reduced to giving generic responses.

36 m diagnosed AS

[Guest guest]

>> said: You say your wife says that she cares for you. Have you asked her to give you a list of how she shows her care/concern/affection? [edit]<<

What a super idea! Thanks for posting this . Even though it wasn't written to me. I'm going to try this with my 'I don't care' husband.

>>[edit] said: My hearing is not in the least sensitive and I don't notice squeaky doors. His hearing is hunting dog sensitive, and squeaky anything drives him crazy.. <<

I can relate to this too. I also have 'hunting dog' hearing. That is a literal truth as I actually had this tested once. I can hear high pitch noises in the dog range. It is highly annoying. To say the least.

>> said: Thus we learned that he is expecting praise for doing something for me when he was doing something that only pleases himself. This makes him sound self-centered, but he genuinely thought he was "doing unto others." This is part of the "theory of mind" issues you might have read about in the AS literature.<<

I do think that normal people do this same thing. People in general tend to reach out to others in the way they want to be reached out to. One book I read on the subject of 'love languages' (not an AS based book) talked about how you can often tell what your spouses love language is by observing what THEY do for you and others. Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

Here is a bunch of info on " twice exceptional " :

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/twice_exceptional.htm

I'm not the one, but yes, there does seem to be a relationship in the highly

gifted and AS—that ability to focus and excel in one specific area that leads

to greatness. Edison, Jefferson are examples of people who are

suspected to be AS for this reason.

I was in the GT cluster from first grade through high school, and was an honors

student for a couple of years in college. Now I teach enrichment programs,

mostly for GT kids, and can almost instantly separate them into 3 distinct sets;

the first two are somewhat standard, the third is of my own devising:

*Teacher Pleasers--(the " talented " of GT) kids for whom grade level school work

is too easy, until they hit their natural level, then it's not. (At this point,

some crash and burn because they have developed no study skills.) I was one of

these.

*AS/Gifted—obviously very bright, often visual/spacial learners, probably

underperforming or " trouble " at school. They often excel in some subjects but

are near failing in others. High IQ, sometimes high strung and may not display

conventional manners. In these parts, we call these kids " Twice Exceptional. "

Homeschooling isn't for every family, but it can make a huge difference in the

lives of kids in this subset. My husband, the " lazy " special-ed student who

nearly flunked out, is a " twice exceptional " .

And my unscientific category, which applies to a significant subset:

* " Gifted " because they have politically-connected or extremely assertive

parents. These kids are gifted if and only if the definition of gifted is

" brighter than their dimwit parents. "

> Uh.. I actually just mentioned my kid, but I'm not this

> person.. I would love to hear from them tho

> There is very little material available on Gifted

> Aspergers. My boy was dignosed each condition seperately.

> (I had been unaware before this that giftedness was a

> diagnosed condition!)

[Guest guest]



>> said: *Teacher Pleasers--(the "talented" of GT) kids for whom grade level school work is too easy, until they hit their natural level, then it's not. (At this point, some crash and burn because they have developed no study skills.) I was one of these. *AS/Gifted—obviously very bright, often visual/spacial learners, probably underperforming or "trouble" at school. They often excel in some subjects but are near failing in others. High IQ, sometimes high strung and may not display conventional manners. In these parts, we call these kids "Twice Exceptional." Homeschooling isn't for every family, but it can make a huge difference in the lives of kids in this subset. My husband, the "lazy" special-ed student who nearly flunked out, is a "twice exceptional".<<

,

I homeschool my kids. My first born is pretty much like what you describe as AS/Gifted. She has huge extremes. In the fourth grade she tested at 11th grade level reading comprehension but at 1st grade level of spelling. She does pretty well in the home setting, though we had quite a few all out battles over the years. I have found a lot of success in having her do a lot of hands on stuff. Also karate class has helped her immensely.

My second born however is definitely AS but fits more into your Teacher Pleaser category.... Although I wouldn't say she is doing well to please me. I think she is just plain smart. One of my concerns for her has been what you mention that they wiz through school until they hit something that is actually difficult for them and then they often crash and burn. I am concerned this will happen for her. She doesn't have to try to get nearly perfect scores in virtually everything. In her CAT test this year she tested at 95% and that was including a subject that I had not even covered with her so she got a low score there. While taking the test she was complaining about subtraction being difficult (she just finished second grade but hasn't actually finished the curriculum). I noticed then that she wasn't using her scratch paper, she did it all in her head. I then explained that there is nothing wrong with using scratch paper so she used it then but all she had on the paper were what looked like random numbers scattered around. The upshot of it? I have no idea how her brain works but she nearly always has the right answer. (She scored 99% in math on her CAT)

I am a little mystified about how to keep her challenged so she does not lose out completely on having to really work at something while at the same time not making her older sister feel stupid when her little sister surpasses her in her difficulty areas. (They are three years apart) Do you have any ideas on this?

Thanks,

Jennie

[Guest guest]

>I am a little mystified about how to keep her challenged so she does not lose out completely on having to really work at

>something while at the same time not making her older sister feel stupid when her little sister surpasses her in her difficulty

>areas. (They are three years apart) Do you have any ideas on this?

We're in the same boat with my oldest. He is just this week starting his gifted program classes, and I haven't heard back fropm anyone yet how it's going. He's been bored out of his mind with the refresher work... "we already DID this!" "This is BABY work!"

He tore up the first refresher test he took and threw it away after completing it right in front of his teacher, then had a meltdown for the rest of the day. He aced it of course. He just thought it was stupid that his teacher was asking him the same stuff he already had.

Sorry.. rabbit trails everywhere with me today...

I have been talking with my wife about keeping his mind occupied. I have been going through the same thing at work myself lately, so I have been kind of cross referencing the two simultaneous experiences (after all, I am AS, and also a database person.. which BTW, is a job created for AS people... I'm tellin ya, seriously)

stupid rabbits

ANYWAY, we're thinking about giving him something to really chew on mentally. I don't know what yet. But I think that kids like these can work on multiple problems at the same time. It slows them down at both, but their minds wander, and if we give that wandering something analytical.... challenging... big.. not something to be conquered in a single day, but a challenge that utilizes their visual imagination and challenges their ability to flow logic, and is basic or simple in it's construct so as not to dominate their focus, they can settle down and chew on the one while their grinding away at the work in front of them.

I downloaded the Spore creature creator demo and my buddy has focussed on that intensely, but I haven't allow him to play it since Sunday, so he's building creatures in his head every day and telling me about them at night in finite detail, but he's had a great great great few days in school.

Also, with five boys, we have a very challenging time with the oldest. His whole identity is "the smartest" in his mind. (no one has ever been able to say anything else about him since the day he was born .. we tried to be sneaky about talking about his intelligence, but he picks up on it), and my #2 is really very very intelligent as well.. he'll probably be in the gifted program when he's older, BUT his brother is "the smart one". Despite this, he doesn't think he's stupid fortunately.

Point being, I think kids will decide their own tags and identities and each others and accept each other as that without drawing conclusions about themselves in the process. At least with my boys, they really don't rate themselves next to each other at these ages (8,6, and down). They occasionally contrast differences, but it seems more like curiosity.

Anyway, I'm sure you're obviously skilled parenting will make these brilliant girls into beautiful productive young women that will make you proud!

-Usarian

From: Jennie Unknown

Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:56 PM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject: Re: diagnosis

 >> said: *Teacher Pleasers--(the "talented" of GT) kids for whom grade level school work is too easy, until they hit their natural level, then it's not. (At this point, some crash and burn because they have developed no study skills.) I was one of these. *AS/Gifted—obviously very bright, often visual/spacial learners, probably underperforming or "trouble" at school. They often excel in some subjects but are near failing in others. High IQ, sometimes high strung and may not display conventional manners. In these parts, we call these kids "Twice Exceptional." Homeschooling isn't for every family, but it can make a huge difference in the lives of kids in this subset. My husband, the "lazy" special-ed student who nearly flunked out, is a "twice exceptional".<<

,

I homeschool my kids. My first born is pretty much like what you describe as AS/Gifted. She has huge extremes. In the fourth grade she tested at 11th grade level reading comprehension but at 1st grade level of spelling. She does pretty well in the home setting, though we had quite a few all out battles over the years. I have found a lot of success in having her do a lot of hands on stuff. Also karate class has helped her immensely.

My second born however is definitely AS but fits more into your Teacher Pleaser category.... Although I wouldn't say she is doing well to please me.. I think she is just plain smart. One of my concerns for her has been what you mention that they wiz through school until they hit something that is actually difficult for them and then they often crash and burn. I am concerned this will happen for her. She doesn't have to try to get nearly perfect scores in virtually everything. In her CAT test this year she tested at 95% and that was including a subject that I had not even covered with her so she got a low score there. While taking the test she was complaining about subtraction being difficult (she just finished second grade but hasn't actually finished the curriculum). I noticed then that she wasn't using her scratch paper, she did it all in her head. I then explained that there is nothing wrong with using scratch paper so she used it then but all she had on the paper were what looked like random numbers scattered around. The upshot of it? I have no idea how her brain works but she nearly always has the right answer. (She scored 99% in math on her CAT)

I am a little mystified about how to keep her challenged so she does not lose out completely on having to really work at something while at the same time not making her older sister feel stupid when her little sister surpasses her in her difficulty areas. (They are three years apart) Do you have any ideas on this?

Thanks,

Jennie

[Guest guest]

Can a spouse reasonably make a diagnosis of AS concerning the other spouse, until getting a "real" diagnosis from a psychologist?

What are the primary traits that define the AS diagnosis? Jim

[Guest guest]

Jim wrote:

> Can a spouse reasonably make a diagnosis of AS concerning the other

> spouse, until getting a " real " diagnosis from a psychologist?

As I'd said earlier, you *shouldn't* " try this as home " . Because the

consequences of being wrong can be devastating to the diagnosEE.

An obvious exception: when/if the diagnosER has appropriate training, or

equivalent knowledge and/or experience.

>

> What are the primary traits that define the AS diagnosis?

They are laid out in the DSM ( " Diagnostic and Statistical Manual... " )

which you can Google on. Europeans and much of the rest of the world

use a different document. Its definitions accord closely to the US ones.

Virginia posted a good source (URL).

The PRIME criterion, especially in the " evolving " professional sense, is

some impairment in reciprocal " social communication " .

- Bill, 76, dx AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Ron H. wrote:

> Hello Jim,

>

> I’m not any sort of a professional in the area of diagnosis; so I would

> always bow the opinion of the best experts. Undoubtedly our good

> friend Bill represents our point of reference on this List to the way

> one should approach the diagnostic criteria.

Aw, Ron... <Nervous blushing here>, but thanks.

>

> So my comments come simply for what they are worth, out of the

> speculations of a 72 year old Aspie. Clearly it is not likely that

> any spouse can make an authentic ‘Diagnosis’ of AS concerning the other

> Spouse. The most sophisticated and learned of persons can be just too

> too familiar with their partner and fall into traps of bias and

> reaction. So it is a mistake to call the conclusions of a spouse

> with the official term Diagnosis.

[ snip ]

> But I really feel that we Aspies would have a really good

> chance of being right when we come to the conclusion about other folk

> that they are not potentially to be diagnosed as Aspies. I might be

> barking up the wrong tree, and I’d be interested to hear just what Bill

> might say about this.

I might say you're " right as rain " , a mid-western? US aphorism meaning

you're quite right.

[ snip ]

> As I see it, just to look at those superficial, (however important)

> outer habits and characteristics of the person that we term as ‘Aspie’,

> is insufficient and must lead to many mistaken and perhaps unfortunate

> conclusions. What we Aspies share almost universally, is a set of

> mental and ‘psychic’ perceptions AND SIGNIFICANT GAPS, perhaps that make

> us uniquely what we are. But in those outer things, we vary

> enormously, and can lead others to wrong conclusions.

>

> I humbly await correction on any of this.

You'll get none from me. Er, ...on *this* issue.

- Bill, 76, dx AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

>

> Can a spouse reasonably make a diagnosis of AS concerning the other

spouse, until getting a " real " diagnosis from a psychologist?   

>

> What are the primary traits that define the AS diagnosis?              

>  Jim

>

Hi Jim, hope you don't mind me commenting...I am new to the group. I

think this is something we should be careful about, that is,

'labelling people'. As I often said to my AS son (now 20, and only

diagnosed last year) 'we all have our quirks'. I am realising that my

husband should be assessed for AS, but the chances of him doing so, or

being open to suggestion, are zilch...however, I have made this

assessment based on our son's diagnosis and the professional knowledge

which I now have (I am a social worker and music therapist, and now

work with children on the Autistic Spectrum). My husband is very

different to my son, but has many traits which could be considered AS,

as definded by the DSM IV. He had learnt to cope and mask many of the

traits, which is why it was perhaps not so obvious before we married,

but I have always struggled with the fact that he hates physical

touch, and is very anxious in social situations (because I am the

opposite on both scores). I have found it so hard to understand him,

and often his interpretation of social events, situations and people

seems strange. Because many situations make him uncomfortable, he

responds with anger and avoidance. I am only just beginning to

understand this, as I have always taken things very personally and had

a very lonely, un-connected relationship. I am hoping that applying

my understanding of AS to my husband I can be more understanding of

him. Don't know if that was interesting or helpful.

Cheers,

Bonny

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your thoughts Bill, Bonnie and others.

Given these circumstances, how would you approach this if my wife doesn't get a professional diagnosis? I see several posts where the partner describes their spouse as diagnosed or undiagnosed.

Before learning about AS, I always held out hope our marriage difficultites could be fixed. I'm in no way qualified to diagnose. However, all the unusual symptoms match those described by AS partners in AS forums down to the finest details. I believe the odds of this being a conicidence are astronomical. As Bonnie mentioned, I'm learning that there are differences among people with AS. For example, said she's quite affectionate. From her explanation, I suspect that AS has positive characteristics and may have even contributed to her having deeper affection than NTs.

For me, the importance of a diagnosis is that it'll both provide an objective and final answer to the problems, and confirm that I'm really not such a bad person/husband afterall. Unlike Bonnie, I don't think I can survive in this enviornment knowing that it'll likely continue.

Jim

Re: diagnosis

>> Can a spouse reasonably make a diagnosis of AS concerning the otherspouse, until getting a "real" diagnosis from a psychologist? > > What are the primary traits that define the AS diagnosis? > Jim>Hi Jim, hope you don't mind me commenting.. .I am new to the group. Ithink this is something we should be careful about, that is,'labelling people'. As I often said to my AS son (now 20, and onlydiagnosed last year) 'we all have our quirks'. I am realising that myhusband should be assessed for AS, but the chances of him doing so, orbeing open to

suggestion, are zilch...however, I have made thisassessment based on our son's diagnosis and the professional knowledgewhich I now have (I am a social worker and music therapist, and nowwork with children on the Autistic Spectrum). My husband is verydifferent to my son, but has many traits which could be considered AS,as definded by the DSM IV. He had learnt to cope and mask many of thetraits, which is why it was perhaps not so obvious before we married,but I have always struggled with the fact that he hates physicaltouch, and is very anxious in social situations (because I am theopposite on both scores). I have found it so hard to understand him,and often his interpretation of social events, situations and peopleseems strange. Because many situations make him uncomfortable, heresponds with anger and avoidance. I am only just beginning tounderstand this, as I have always taken things very personally

and hada very lonely, un-connected relationship. I am hoping that applyingmy understanding of AS to my husband I can be more understanding ofhim. Don't know if that was interesting or helpful.Cheers,Bonny

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim,

I would proceed with a neuropsychologist

evaluation but that may be $$$.

A neuropsychologist in this area just

warned me that people are throwing the AS term

pretty freely/erroneously. He said lots

have behaviors have to do with personality and not autism or anything on the

autistic spectrum!

I am concerned that we are believing the

one psychiatrist that has labeled my husband with AS without further testing. Neither

of our children exhibit AS traits although one is introverted more than the other

who is extroverted/gregarious.

Lori

[Guest guest]

I'm piping up with a bit of trepidation here, but I have to say that

after 8 years as a member of this board, I've seen this a few times

before, and I am concerned about the direction this particular

discussion is taking.

Later in life, all sorts of issues - health and otherwise - WILL

crop up in a marriage - and that is a fact of life. Marriage is

supposed to be " for better or for worse. " Just because you discover,

later in life, that the reason why your spouse is so quirky is due to

his/her AS, is not a " reason " in and of itself, to give up on the marriage.

The real issue should be whether or not there is mutual respect,

mutual kindness, mutual consideration, mutual goals. Is there any

give and take left? Those are the issues that couples need to look

at. Sometimes folks stop treating each other with respect and care.

It may not be overt abuse, but nonetheless, it tears away at an

individual's self esteem. Sometimes both partners stop trying,

assuming the marriage will take care of itself. Fventually the glue

that held the marriage together is gone. It's the issues, not the

labels, that kill a marriage.

Perhaps one or both partners remain in the marriage due to financial

considerations. The one that walks the first is the one who typically

pays the most, monetarily. So both partners often hold out to see who

blinks first. At this point one or both partners probably *wish* that

the other one would make a serious miss-step, have an affair, develop

a gambling addiction or a serious mental illness, so that they would

be off the hook, cleanly. Neither partner has the courage to " just do

it " and set out to make a happy life for themselves that still takes

into account the well-being of the rest of their family. This has

gotta be really sad for the kids to watch. What great modelling for

their own future marriages (not!)

Sometimes we have spouses coming to the board who are looking for the

panacea that will cure all their marital woes. They latch onto the

label of AS with such ferocity that they believe that " if only " their

spouse would " acknowledge " AS, they would then have the intimacy they

crave. They don't " get " that whether or not their spouse has AS, it's

really only the tip of the iceberg of their problems.

Others .. and this is of more serious concern to me, have already

come to a decision, and basically they are coming to this board as to

find a " reason " and to seek " permission " - as it were - from fellow

members - to get a divorce. They are especially fixated on the

" label " wanting to " fit " and with good " reason " ... because they wish

to exonerate themselves of their part the failed marriage (

always says it takes TWO) and divorce on the grounds of AS. Yipes!

We aren't experts here. Most of us are here, whether we are NT or AS,

are trying to find ways to make our marriages WORK (... there is that

" other " board - FAAAS - for those that don't....) But at any rate, I

have yet to hear of anyone successfully divorcing on the grounds of

AS - although there is a Toronto lawyer who would like to make an

industry out of this if she could (yeesh!!!!)

I don't like to see AS used in these ways - especially not on this

board. All AS are very different. AS is NOT a disease. AS has its

gifts and its challenges. The knowledge of AS should be a tool, not a weapon.

Abuse is abuse and should NEVER be tolerated. It doesn't matter if

the person is male, female, Caucasian, Martian, bipolar, tripolar (if

there is indeed such a thing) - AS or NT. It's about the ABUSE, plain

and simple. If there is no respect, do you need any other reason? If

the marriage is dead, if there is no intimacy, and there is no shared

vision or future of any kind (to me that's a much bigger deal breaker

than just the sex) you've both tried and but it's becoming a

destructive relationship, there is no need to keep on airing dirty

laundry, just get yourself to a councillor and begin to look at the road ahead.

Newland used to ask some members, okay, what do YOU want to do?

Are YOU better off in this marriage or out of it. If the answer is

the latter, then get on to a divorce lawyer and consider your

options. To my mind, ITS THE BEHAVIOR, not the label, that matters.

- Helen

53, self dx'd AS, dx'd ADD

[Guest guest]

Hear, Hear!! (Helen's post- 'Re: diagnosis' All of it!) People are who they are, primarily because of the choices they make. Lots of AS are caring, decent, well behaved people. The reason for divorce needs to be separate from AS.

I think another reason some folks might really latch on to a diagnosis for AS is that, in their mind, it excuses them from responsibility. After all if the spouse is AS then obviously the spouse is the one who is messed up and the NT person is off the hook, so to speak... There's 'nothing' they could have done to have things be different, etc. Because after all, AS is a diagnosis of what is WRONG with the spouse.

There seems to be a lack of understanding in some that whether your spouse is AS or NT or something else there needs to be mutual respect, consideration, and working at the marriage. Just because someone is AS does not mean they can't work at their relationship. Just because someone is NT doesn't mean they are going to work at the relationship. Just because your spouse is different from you does not mean you can't learn to show them respect and consideration in a way they can understand. (That goes for NT and AS)

Then there are those who do all the work, put in all the effort and get nothing in return. Both AS and NT do this. Those folks need to decide if they have the energy to pour their life into the never ending black hole! I'm AS and I did this for years. By some folks reasoning I should now say that all NTs are just black holes that suck the life out of you. LOL

Jennie AS

[Guest guest]

Hi Jennie and Helen,

I think you are making some great points

about relationships.

We stumbled into the AS diagnosis in an

attempt to have my husband treated for

what may be depression or bipolar. I

had not heard of executive functioning before but as I have read about AS, now

I know more about it. He has not been able to file papers or plan trips

and relies on a day-timer for everything and I have been very angry about the

things that I have had to do. Now that I know he may have a LD or AS or something

else does help me be less angry although I still do not want to have to

compensate for the things he can not apparently do if it takes away from the

things I should be doing, like working. My being less angry should help

him be happier. My husband has oscillations in his energy level that are debilitating,

and we are both searching for answers. He can go to bed perfectly happy

and pretty much stress free and wake up dead the next day. It has been

hard for him to get help.

Lori