Re: brain retraining for mcs and more, don't know about effects on mold toxicity

[Guest guest]

Myself and some other moldies have spoken w this woman and believe she is

another person trying to get the money out of your pocket and into hers. She

says she does not know if it would work for mold. But if you think the power of

positive thinking and self-hypnosis will cure you-go ahead and spend $1000 for a

weekend training seminar and let us know-also she says if you don't believe in

it it won't work

>

> <http://www.examiner.com/x-9922-SF-Health-Examiner~y2009m12d16-Canadian-

> brain-retrainer-cures-chronic-conditions-using-the-law-of-

> neuroplasticity?cid=examiner-email>

>

[Guest guest]

Sure. It's a long process but I will try to keep you posted. Anne

On Dec 17, 2009, at 1:16 PM, sue wrote:

> Anne,

>

> Let us know how it goes for you. thanks, sue

>

> >I'm not sure what she meant by " believing " because I haven't read the

> >article. I think what she might mean by saying you have to believe

> >in it is that brain retraining is all about changing the negative

> >thought patterns that reinforce our body's hyper-reactive state. She

> >requires reading " The Brain That Changes Itself " before her seminar

> >so that people have a firm grasp on neuroplasticity. I don't know

> >much about her system; I only know the Gupta Amygdala Retraining

> >program. He, in fact, says you don't have to believe that it will

> >work, you just have to do the exercises which involve stopping

> >negative thought patterns. This is important because our brain gets

> >stuck on reacting to negative stimuli, e.g. odors, pain, etc. in the

> >same negative and hyper way (fight/flight ) Brain retraining is

> >about breaking up those patterns. I'm at the beginning stages so

> >all I can say is that I find the exercises helpful. I have a friend

> >who has been doing the Gupta program for a longer time than I have

> >and she finds that it has helped her a lot. Anne

> >On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:02 AM, sue wrote:

> >

>

[Guest guest]

not quite the same thing, but there is quite a bit of info out there showing

that the brain can work around some injuries, thats why they tell people with

alztimers and some other brain injuries to do puzzles and read and work their

brain. a possitive attitude can help with a lot of things. theres some thought

that our cells are somewhat independant of each other and react to how we are

thinking and felling

and thereby a possitive attidute and keeping stress levels low can help the body

heal. with me and this crazy illness and the nerve damage it's caused prolonged

stress can make me start felling pretty bad.

>

> Are you speaking about Annie Hopper? For some reason this link isn't

> working: get message that says " file not found. " Have been reading about

neuroplasticity and using the Gupta DVDs. Gupta is very geared toward CFS and

the Amygdala. Annie's work is more geared toward MCS and the limbic system.

The book " The Brain That Changes " is a good one which explains a lot about

neuroplasticity. It makes a lot of sense to

> me. Anne

>

> (Note to Anne: try link now. Many times there are gaps in link and link will

work if you take them out. Hit reply, resend link to yourself but before you hit

'send' go down and edit link, removing any gaps in it.)

>

[Guest guest]

yes, I agree that the stress only makes things worse. I turn to my

Gupta exercises at these times to literally stop the stress

reaction. I haven't found positive thinking alone to be helpful. I

had a very positive attitude about this illness for the past eight

years; in fact, I absolutely believed that I would get better. Now

that that hasn't happened I find it difficult to maintain a positive

attitude. And the positive attitude just wasn't enough to get me

better, though it certainly feels better than being negative.

There are imagery exercises in the Gupta program which are geared

towards viewing oneself with a more positive view towards the

future. There is a lot to the program. The good thing is that he

gives a money back guarentee any time within two years of purchasing

the DVDs. He has thrown in a few specifics about MCS which are

helpful.

I do the NY Times Crossword puzzle everyday for fun, but it hasn't

helped me with this illness. The puzzles are about keeping certain

parts of the brain active. Brain retraining is a whole different

thing, though it is now used for Alzheimer's as well. Gupta and

probably Annie Hopper's work is based on brain research into post-

traumatic stress. Our brains hang on to and repeat trauma that it

cannot assimilate. It's possible that MCS and the other " unexplained

illnesses " can be seen as forms of post-traumatic stress. At least

it makes sense to me given my history, both pre and post-illness

onset. Anne

On Dec 17, 2009, at 1:12 PM, osisposis wrote:

> not quite the same thing, but there is quite a bit of info out

> there showing that the brain can work around some injuries, thats

> why they tell people with alztimers and some other brain injuries

> to do puzzles and read and work their brain. a possitive attitude

> can help with a lot of things. theres some thought that our cells

> are somewhat independant of each other and react to how we are

> thinking and felling

> and thereby a possitive attidute and keeping stress levels low can

> help the body heal. with me and this crazy illness and the nerve

> damage it's caused prolonged stress can make me start felling

> pretty bad.

>

[Guest guest]

Carl,

Have you read about neuroplasticity? It is not a " psychological "

approach in the way that you mean. I am a Psychologist and have been

on both sides of the couch, so to speak. Yes, there is a place for

psychological treatment for anyone who has lost their old life to

illness, especially our " unexplained " and unaccepted illness. We

invariably develop issues and feelings related to coping with the

illness, family and friends who don't get it, mourning the loss of

one's health and our old life, etc..

But that is not to say that the etiology is " psychological. " I've

had that from friends and family and I say to .... with them. I'm

not here to say that neuroplasticity works. I'm saying that I am

trying it, it makes sense to me. There are a lot of treatments out

there that help some people and not others. I think this group forum

is a nice way to share ideas about what has helped us and what

hasn't. There are no panaceas out there, but some people actually do

get better. I know some of them. Anne

On Dec 17, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Carl E. Grimes wrote:

> Anne,

>

> Thanks for your experience with the Gupta method. I read the

> interview Genser had with him on her Web site

> PlanetThrive. There is also a Christian-based method in Georgia

> which claims a similar success. A friend of mine achieved great

> results about 5 years ago. By " great " I mean it helped a lot but not

> with everything and some didn't last.

>

> My take on approaches like this is that some may help but not as

> a " cure " and definitely not that the cause is psychological. The

> cause is physical. But the physical can affect our cognition and

> our behavior and that is what these and the skeptics totally miss.

>

> We can also easily become " habituated " to a particular way of

> thinking (anticipating) and responding about exposures, where

> they occur, and what the effect will be. Also, when our family and

> friends don't believe our " invisible " experience we tend to make

> them " visible " with our words and actions.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Anne,

Thanks for your experience with the Gupta method. I read the

interview Genser had with him on her Web site

PlanetThrive. There is also a Christian-based method in Georgia

which claims a similar success. A friend of mine achieved great

results about 5 years ago. By " great " I mean it helped a lot but not

with everything and some didn't last.

My take on approaches like this is that some may help but not as

a " cure " and definitely not that the cause is psychological. The

cause is physical. But the physical can affect our cognition and

our behavior and that is what these and the skeptics totally miss.

We can also easily become " habituated " to a particular way of

thinking (anticipating) and responding about exposures, where

they occur, and what the effect will be. Also, when our family and

friends don't believe our " invisible " experience we tend to make

them " visible " with our words and actions.

Nothing wrong with any of this. I've seen how I do it in my own

life. Near the beginning of my discovering what was happening to

me I got into a horrible " loop " that was basically a self-fulfilling

prophecy. I believed a particular situation would make me sick

and, by golly, I got sick and I made sure everybody knew it!

When I started doing house inspections for those referred to me

by my physician I faced a dilemma. I knew these were sick

houses, I knew I'd get sick when I went inside, but I wanted to

help and I needed the income (I'd been unable to work for two

years). So when I entered the house I'd ask myself, " What am I

noticing? Is it harming me right now or can I wait before I leave?

If discomfort rather than harm am I willing to tolerate the effects? "

Result? Not all of them made me ill. But some of them made me

very ill. It took time and a number of situations to begin to unlearn

my fears and re-learn events as they were. Over the years as my

health slowly improved (I'm talking about the last 23 years, not

months) my reactivity changed and I had to keep altering my

conclusions.

I can now go into most situations but I also know how to protect

myself with N95 and N100 masks, other breathing apparatus,

and personal protective clothing. Most important of all, I KNOW

WHEN TO LEAVE and I LEAVE. Even if it means I can't

complete the job and get paid. I will not continue the harm to

myself.

However, sometimes the reactions are delayed and I don't notice

until after I've left the job site. Then I suffer anywhere from a few

hours to a few days. A " simple " job 3 months ago put me down

for a solid day. A hotel last month took me 2 weeks to fully

recover. I could function but not optimally.

My point about the neuroplasticity and other " psychological " or

" belief " systems is this: There is definitely a " psychological "

component as a result of the impact of exposures on our body.

How can there not be? But the " psycology " did not cause the

physical reality of our experience and the " psychology " will not

cure it. That said, our beliefs and fears can certainly get in the

way of our healing (be our own worst enemy, in fact) and with

some new methods may actually help with parts of it.

When practioners make " silver bullet " claims of healing I'm as

skeptical as those who make " silver bullet " claims with ozone,

chlorine dioxide, chemicals that kill mold, UV lights in furnaces,

and other such products. Some may help, some don't, and most

just confuse the hell out of us. Which only feeds our well earned

fears and creates more distance between us and the " non-

believers. "

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

I'm not sure what she meant by " believing " because I haven't read the

article. I think what she might mean by saying you have to believe

in it is that brain retraining is all about changing the negative

thought patterns that reinforce our body's hyper-reactive state. She

requires reading " The Brain That Changes Itself " before her seminar

so that people have a firm grasp on neuroplasticity. I don't know

much about her system; I only know the Gupta Amygdala Retraining

program. He, in fact, says you don't have to believe that it will

work, you just have to do the exercises which involve stopping

negative thought patterns. This is important because our brain gets

stuck on reacting to negative stimuli, e.g. odors, pain, etc. in the

same negative and hyper way (fight/flight ) Brain retraining is

about breaking up those patterns. I'm at the beginning stages so

all I can say is that I find the exercises helpful. I have a friend

who has been doing the Gupta program for a longer time than I have

and she finds that it has helped her a lot. Anne

On Dec 17, 2009, at 10:02 AM, sue wrote:

> I do think positive thinking is great, I don't think that

> neuroplasticity is positive thinking or self-hypnosis but something

> entirely different, I would not be willing to spend that kind of money

> on this without some peer-reviewed evidence and I am always

> skeptical of

> therapies that require you to BELIEVE or else they won't work. sue

>

> Myself and some other moldies have spoken w this woman and believe she

> >is another person trying to get the money out of your pocket and into

> >hers. She says she does not know if it would work for mold. But if

> you

> >think the power of positive thinking and self-hypnosis will cure

> you-go

> >ahead and spend $1000 for a weekend training seminar and let us know-

> >also she says if you don't believe in it it won't work

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

exactly. I get the same thing when exposed to fabric softener and

other highly perfumed chemicals. I start crying and can't stop. I

saw this at Dr. Rea's clinic all the time. The chemicals affect the

limbic system which controls emotion. Bah Humbug. i like that. Anne

On Dec 17, 2009, at 4:30 PM, osisposis wrote:

> my emotions and mood swings were like a roller coaster during my

> exposure and it wasn't controable no more than it is now with re-

> eposures to many things. it can be embarrassing sometimes but I

> know it's because of brain effects and has nothing to do with any

> boughts of depression I might have, or things like getting bah-

> humbug over hollidays.

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes, I was diagnosed with PTSD right after my exposure, some of the brain damage

I suffered from exposure can have many simular symptoms

and I didn't know a thing about MCS or advoidance or anything else at the time I

was pretty non functional for quite a while there.

my body was screaming at me for help and I couldn't find it anywhere.

never want to live those days again. theres several months during that time that

I dont remember much of. comes back in bits and pieces off and on. I know some

brain injurys just dont quite heal or heal but not like they were before. theres

a difference in what causes brain reactions and some ways my brain works now

that are always there

kindof like theres some weird things going on with my eyes that the cataracts

had nothing to do with that also can get worse with exposures and better on good

days but never quite like it was.

>

> yes, I agree that the stress only makes things worse. I turn to my

> Gupta exercises at these times to literally stop the stress

> reaction. I haven't found positive thinking alone to be helpful. I

> had a very positive attitude about this illness for the past eight

> years; in fact, I absolutely believed that I would get better. Now

> that that hasn't happened I find it difficult to maintain a positive

> attitude. And the positive attitude just wasn't enough to get me

> better, though it certainly feels better than being negative.

> There are imagery exercises in the Gupta program which are geared

> towards viewing oneself with a more positive view towards the

> future. There is a lot to the program. The good thing is that he

> gives a money back guarentee any time within two years of purchasing

> the DVDs. He has thrown in a few specifics about MCS which are

> helpful.

> I do the NY Times Crossword puzzle everyday for fun, but it hasn't

> helped me with this illness. The puzzles are about keeping certain

> parts of the brain active. Brain retraining is a whole different

> thing, though it is now used for Alzheimer's as well. Gupta and

> probably Annie Hopper's work is based on brain research into post-

> traumatic stress. Our brains hang on to and repeat trauma that it

> cannot assimilate. It's possible that MCS and the other " unexplained

> illnesses " can be seen as forms of post-traumatic stress. At least

> it makes sense to me given my history, both pre and post-illness

> onset. Anne

>

[Guest guest]

well put Carl, sometimes a place,actualy the reaction I have to the place can

warn me to leave quickly and sometimes it doesn't but as time in that place

increases so do my reactions, and sometimes I might not start felling some of

the symptoms for until hours later or the next day.

>

> Anne,

>

> Thanks for your experience with the Gupta method. I read the

> interview Genser had with him on her Web site

> PlanetThrive. There is also a Christian-based method in Georgia

> which claims a similar success. A friend of mine achieved great

> results about 5 years ago. By " great " I mean it helped a lot but not

> with everything and some didn't last.

>

> My take on approaches like this is that some may help but

[Guest guest]

Good discussion. I haven't checked this out on Plant Thrive yet. I saw it-- but

have not read yet. I know I find myself thinking about our illness too much,

but I guess many of us can't work so we are working on this issue at home, and

of course we think about it. And we know how our gov't is letting this happen--

and of course it upsets us.

We could have all walked away from this and tried to move on, but we have

decided to keep on working until the job is done.

I usually don't say anything anymore if someone has something on--I might

breathe shallow-- or not stay in the area long.

But when you have been sick so many times getting migraines, vomiting, or what

ever the problem you learn to avoid these chemicals or mold. I read something

the other day when someone said she would wear hair spray and the girl didn't

notice. Well we don't say something about every single chemical we come across.

It is weird how sometimes we can handle a little discomfort, but I guess I have

learned when it is time to get away, but there have been times that I got sick

so fast that I didn't even have time to get out of the car and vomited right

there.

But I do have to tell myself at times to think about something else if I am

upset about this nightmare.

>

> Anne,

>

>

[Guest guest]

my emotions and mood swings were like a roller coaster during my exposure and it

wasn't controable no more than it is now with re-eposures to many things. it can

be embarrassing sometimes but I know it's because of brain effects and has

nothing to do with any boughts of depression I might have, or things like

getting bah-humbug over hollidays.

>

> >

> > Anne,

> >

> > Thanks for your experience with the Gupta method. I read the

> > interview Genser had with him on her Web site

> > PlanetThrive. There is also a Christian-based method in Georgia

> > which claims a similar success. A friend of mine achieved great

> > results about 5 years ago. By " great " I mean it helped a lot but not

> > with everything and some didn't last.

> >

> > My take on approaches like this is that some may help but

>

[Guest guest]

I think things like reading a good book, watching a good movie, takeing a walk,

even if it's a short one but only when you manage it without getting exposed to

something, setting outside watching the squirrels and birds, ect. can be

relaxing, slow deep breathing and getting away from noise too.

>

> >

> > yes, I agree that the stress only makes things worse. I turn to my

> > Gupta exercises at these times to literally stop the stress

> > reaction. I haven't found positive thinking alone to be helpful. I

> > had a very positive attitude about this illness for the past eight

> > years; in fact, I absolutely believed that I would get better. Now

> > that that hasn't happened I find it difficult to maintain a positive

> > attitude. And the positive attitude just wasn't enough to get me

> > better, though it certainly feels better than being negative.

> > There are imagery exercises in the Gupta program which are geared

> > towards viewing oneself with a more positive view towards the

> > future. There is a lot to the program. The good thing is that he

> > gives a money back guarentee any time within two years of purchasing

> > the DVDs. He has thrown in a few specifics about MCS which are

> > helpful.

> > I do the NY Times Crossword puzzle everyday for fun, but it hasn't

> > helped me with this illness. The puzzles are about keeping certain

> > parts of the brain active. Brain retraining is a whole different

> > thing, though it is now used for Alzheimer's as well. Gupta and

> > probably Annie Hopper's work is based on brain research into post-

> > traumatic stress. Our brains hang on to and repeat trauma that it

> > cannot assimilate. It's possible that MCS and the other " unexplained

> > illnesses " can be seen as forms of post-traumatic stress. At least

> > it makes sense to me given my history, both pre and post-illness

> > onset. Anne

> >

>

[Guest guest]

yes, I didn't realize I automaticly held my breath in some places untell a

dentist told my he wasn't going to work on me unless I started breathing. the

minute I walked through the door something hit me and while setting in the chair

I watched as twitches started in with my right thigh went up to my stomach and

down my left leg to my toes than it finished going down my right leg, my

daughter held my feet they were going spastic,sometimes I get these effects

while standing and it gets pretty hard to stay standing up, I'd say it's gotton

better but truth is I really haven't been going much of anywhere to find out. my

trips into stores are very limitited or much of anywhere else for that matter.

>

> Good discussion. I haven't checked this out on Plant Thrive yet. I saw it--

but have not read yet. I know I find myself thinking about our illness too

much, but I guess many of us can't work so we are working on this issue at

home, and of course we think about it. And we know how our gov't is letting

this happen-- and of course it upsets us.

>

> We could have all walked away from this and tried to move on, but we have

decided to keep on working until the job is done.

>

> I usually don't say anything anymore if someone has something on--I might

breathe shallow-- or not stay in the area long.

>

> But when you have been sick so many times getting migraines, vomiting, or what

ever the problem you learn to avoid these chemicals or mold. I read something

the other day when someone said she would wear hair spray and the girl didn't

notice. Well we don't say something about every single chemical we come across.

>

> It is weird how sometimes we can handle a little discomfort, but I guess I

have learned when it is time to get away, but there have been times that I got

sick so fast that I didn't even have time to get out of the car and vomited

right there.

>

> But I do have to tell myself at times to think about something else if I am

upset about this nightmare.

>

[Guest guest]

hard not to have this illness on your mind when you live with it.

and it affects your whole way of liveing. just one day at a time trying not to

fell bad on that day. waiting for some miracle cure to give us our lives back. I

got to the point a while back where I dont care if family gets it or not, I

can't deal with getting sick to make them happy,I hate it as much,actually much

more than they do.

> >

> > Anne,

> >

> >

>