Milk Thistle

[Guest guest]

3 to 4 times a day. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

> How often should I give milk thistle? Everyday? We haven't begun

to

> chelate with DMSA yet, just working on the support supplements right

> now

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/02 11:55:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,

andyg@... writes:

<< Michele,

Our son is 47# and we give 100mg. three times per day.

>>

In what form? A liquid herbal or capsule?

Thanks,

Michele

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/11/2002 12:43:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,

weinert@... writes:

> Nature's Answer makes a liquid form with no alcohol

,

I have thought about buying this one. How does it taste?

Michele

[Guest guest]

Michele,

Our son is 47# and we give 100mg. three times per day.

> Reg. milk thistle -

>

> How much would I give my son daily - he is 8yrs old & around

50lbs...?

>

> How is it given? (separate doses throughout the day; all together

in am,pm,

> etc)?

>

> Can it be given along with other supplements?

>

> Can it be used daily on a continuing basis with no problems?

>

> Thank you,

> Michele

[Guest guest]

hypoallergenic capsules from kirkmans. Ya know, I haven't seen a

liquid form.

> In a message dated 12/11/02 11:55:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> andyg@l... writes:

>

> << Michele,

> Our son is 47# and we give 100mg. three times per day.

>

> >>

>

> In what form? A liquid herbal or capsule?

>

> Thanks,

> Michele

[Guest guest]

Ya know, I haven't seen a

> liquid form.

Hi,

Nature's Answer makes a liquid form with no alcohol.

Here's a site just for reference. I get my daughter's at the local

health food store.

http://www.healthstore.com/gv/info.html?item=021384

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 12/11/2002 12:43:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> weinert@l... writes:

>

> > Nature's Answer makes a liquid form with no alcohol

>

> ,

> I have thought about buying this one. How does it taste?

> Michele

I put it in with juice or coromega for my daughter, so taste hasn't

been much of an issue. I tried it myself diluted in water and it

didn't offend me, but I can stand oil of oregano like that, so I might

not me the best judge.

[Guest guest]

> How much would I give my son daily - he is 8yrs old & around 50lbs...?

I give mine 40mg, 3-4 times a day

> Can it be given along with other supplements?

Yes.

> Can it be used daily on a continuing basis with no problems?

I do... It's been a year... I don't see any problem.

Valentina

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/4/2003 11:46:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,

leoelfie@... writes:

> Can anyone tell me how much milk thistle to boil to make 1 cup of tea?

> Leo

>

>

1 teaspoon - Any more than that and it becomes more of an infusion, than a

tea.

I grind my seeds, first. Foggs

[Guest guest]

Leo,

1 teaspoon to 1 cup of boiling water....don't boil, steep for 15 minutes,

covered.

Deb

[Guest guest]

It's supposed to improve liver function, right? How do you think it worked?

Did you do a test?

I think someone posted problems with it on this list, like some articles or

something but I didn't read them because I was too hurried. I'll have to go

and look them up.

marti

[Guest guest]

I have not done that. I am just assuming that it has been useful as I

have been on many nasty drugs in the last few years with no apparent

harm to my liver. Could be that it is doing nothing and that I just have

a very tough liver! But my thinking is that it may prevent problems, not

necessarily that it is curing any existing problems.

According to Dr. Weil, it's considered to be pretty safe, so I figure,

why not?

Regards,

Mark Holmes wrote:

> I've noticed some of the comments about the beneficial aspects of milk

> thistle on liver enzymes. I take it myself (since I take

> methotrexate), yet

> I have never really washed it out of my system for a long enough time and

> then had lab tests to see if my enzymes were elevated. Have some of you

> actually done this or are you making the assumption that it is helping

> (like

> I am)?

>

> Mark

>

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mark, I was on Metho for seven years from 1990 to 1997. My liver enzymes

did not rise and I wasn't taking Milk Thistle.

(RA 25+ years, AP since Nov. 97)

rheumatic milk thistle

> I've noticed some of the comments about the beneficial aspects of milk

> thistle on liver enzymes. I take it myself (since I take methotrexate),

yet

> I have never really washed it out of my system for a long enough time and

> then had lab tests to see if my enzymes were elevated. Have some of you

> actually done this or are you making the assumption that it is helping

(like

> I am)?

>

> Mark

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

I was on many drugs with elevated liver enzymes. Milk thistle was

all I added and they came down. Its just a good protectant for the

liver.

I do not take Mtx any longer..no need to.. but will contimue to take

the milk thistle as everything we take is processed in the liver.

Marge

>

> > I've noticed some of the comments about the beneficial aspects of

milk

> > thistle on liver enzymes. I take it myself (since I take

> > methotrexate), yet

> > I have never really washed it out of my system for a long enough

time and

> > then had lab tests to see if my enzymes were elevated. Have some

of you

> > actually done this or are you making the assumption that it is

helping

> > (like

> > I am)?

> >

> > Mark

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Buterate (sp.?) and wheat grass are supposed to be good for liver

too. We used milk thistle with no problems.

Jill

[Guest guest]

I do work for a health food store and my boss (whois very into

research) found studies that proved milk thistle does help to restore

and renew liver cells. if i can find the studies i will post them.

anyway...it is a very wise choice to be on milk thistle with all of

the environmental toxins, meds, etc that we are all exposed to

everyday. the liver deals with a lot. take care.

rachael

> I've noticed some of the comments about the beneficial aspects of

milk

> thistle on liver enzymes. I take it myself (since I take

methotrexate), yet

> I have never really washed it out of my system for a long enough

time and

> then had lab tests to see if my enzymes were elevated. Have some

of you

> actually done this or are you making the assumption that it is

helping (like

> I am)?

>

> Mark

[Guest guest]

, this came across at a crucial moment for me. My son, who is 36 years

old and overweight, was just tested and found to have fatty liver disease. He

is NOT a drinker, so we were at a loss as to why this was happening. I have

encouraged him to get on milk thistle, and I'm hoping he'll take my advice.

There are other things that can be done too, according to an article on webmd

which another friend of mine sent to me. In that article, it says, " Obese

people who develop a life-threatening liver ailment that mimics the liver

disease seen in alcoholics actually may have an overactive inner 'distillery'

producing too much alcohol in the body for the organ to handle [according to

results from animal studies]. The good news is that if the studies hold true

for humans, the ailment known as fatty liver disease may be easily preventable

in overweight people with a daily antibiotic or cup of yogurt. "

Thanks,

Ellen

rheumatic Re: milk thistle

I do work for a health food store and my boss (whois very into

research) found studies that proved milk thistle does help to restore

and renew liver cells. if i can find the studies i will post them.

anyway...it is a very wise choice to be on milk thistle with all of

the environmental toxins, meds, etc that we are all exposed to

everyday. the liver deals with a lot. take care.

rachael

> I've noticed some of the comments about the beneficial aspects of

milk

> thistle on liver enzymes. I take it myself (since I take

methotrexate), yet

> I have never really washed it out of my system for a long enough

time and

> then had lab tests to see if my enzymes were elevated. Have some

of you

> actually done this or are you making the assumption that it is

helping (like

> I am)?

>

> Mark

To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

[Guest guest]

Marge and Group,

Recently the use of phosphatidylcholine for supporting the liver has

been brought to my attention, and everything I'm learning about it

is VERY impressive.

http://www.diet-and-health.net/Supplements/PhosphatidylCholine.html

Though I never had tests showing elevated liver enzymes to make me

suspect I had liver problems, quite by accident it was discovered

that I did have liver lesions. You'd better believe I got really

busy figuring out the best way to help my liver repair and to

support it in the future. Taking milk thistle on an ongoing basis,

even forever, is something I'd planned to do.

Another thing I've learned in my own case is that this condition

could VERY POSSIBLY been brought about by a failure of gut

absorption to assimilate all that wonderful food I was eating (with

such discipline LOL). I've learned failure to absorb nutrients

(when gut lining " plasticizes (my word) " and cannot absorb) can

cause bone and liver problems. My liver lesions showed clear on the

last scan.

I attribute this turnaround (in 2000-2001 to drinking Essiac tea

twice daily for several months after discovery of this problem, and

especially eating plain whole milk yogurt twice daily since 1997 --

didn't even know about the bone and liver problems then, just knew I

was wasting away to nothing -- (later began using non-fat plain

yogurt) with powdered Solaray Multidophilus, flaxseed oil (1 Tblspn

per 100 lbs of body weight). (I also stirred in fresh fruits like

blueberries, peaches, apples, etc. into this mix.) The bone scans

in January 2001 showed improved homeostasis, but they may never look

the same....BUT, amazingly, my bone density test in late 2002 showed

in the high range of normal. (Thank you Lord! I didn't want to

have to deal with osteoporosis. I am 5'2 " , small frame, etc. --

just the type that usually has osteoporosis.)

Well, all of this is to emphasize to you that we tend to think of AP

as the magic bullet, with a tendency to sort of " glide " over the

other cautions about supporting our major organs adequately. Well,

I've learned " if the liver don't go, we don't go!!! " So, my liver

is definitely my boss these days. Even though it is much better, it

still gave me a major alarm in Feb 2003 after I'd been on Zithromax

and Minocin, pulsing. I'm sure that neurotoxins built up incredibly

and caused this -- although the mechanism to explain this is a bit

over my head to explain simply. I now know better what I need to do

to keep this from happening again, and have devised a game plan to

address this lack of detoxification.

Healthy livers to all,

bg

> >

> > > I've noticed some of the comments about the beneficial aspects

of

> milk

> > > thistle on liver enzymes. I take it myself (since I take

> > > methotrexate), yet

> > > I have never really washed it out of my system for a long

enough

> time and

> > > then had lab tests to see if my enzymes were elevated. Have

some

> of you

> > > actually done this or are you making the assumption that it is

> helping

> > > (like

> > > I am)?

> > >

> > > Mark

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Just a related anecdote...our dog suddenly became ill with a virus or

bacteria that produced toxins which attacked and nearly destroyed his liver.

They didn't think he'd survive. We have an amazing veteriary college near

us that specializes in difficult cases. They follow the usual veterinary

procedures, but our vet was open to trying whatever she could to save our

dog. She prescribed Ursadiaol, antibiotics (doxy), vit. E, SAMe, and milk

thistle. He was in ICU for 12 days and then was sent home. Two weeks

later, he had a liver biopsy to determine the extent of damage and the need

for ongoing meds. To everyone's shock, his liver tested normal. She said

that given the right support, the liver is an amazing organ because it can

regenerate--we normally just use 20% of our liver.

(RA 25+ years, AP since Nov. 97)

>

> Marge and Group,

>

> Recently the use of phosphatidylcholine for supporting the liver has

> been brought to my attention, and everything I'm learning about it

> is VERY impressive.

>

> http://www.diet-and-health.net/Supplements/PhosphatidylCholine.html

>

> Though I never had tests showing elevated liver enzymes to make me

> suspect I had liver problems, quite by accident it was discovered

> that I did have liver lesions. You'd better believe I got really

> busy figuring out the best way to help my liver repair and to

> support it in the future. Taking milk thistle on an ongoing basis,

> even forever, is something I'd planned to do.

>

> Another thing I've learned in my own case is that this condition

> could VERY POSSIBLY been brought about by a failure of gut

> absorption to assimilate all that wonderful food I was eating (with

> such discipline LOL). I've learned failure to absorb nutrients

> (when gut lining " plasticizes (my word) " and cannot absorb) can

> cause bone and liver problems. My liver lesions showed clear on the

> last scan.

>

> I attribute this turnaround (in 2000-2001 to drinking Essiac tea

> twice daily for several months after discovery of this problem, and

> especially eating plain whole milk yogurt twice daily since 1997 --

> didn't even know about the bone and liver problems then, just knew I

> was wasting away to nothing -- (later began using non-fat plain

> yogurt) with powdered Solaray Multidophilus, flaxseed oil (1 Tblspn

> per 100 lbs of body weight). (I also stirred in fresh fruits like

> blueberries, peaches, apples, etc. into this mix.) The bone scans

> in January 2001 showed improved homeostasis, but they may never look

> the same....BUT, amazingly, my bone density test in late 2002 showed

> in the high range of normal. (Thank you Lord! I didn't want to

> have to deal with osteoporosis. I am 5'2 " , small frame, etc. --

> just the type that usually has osteoporosis.)

>

> Well, all of this is to emphasize to you that we tend to think of AP

> as the magic bullet, with a tendency to sort of " glide " over the

> other cautions about supporting our major organs adequately. Well,

> I've learned " if the liver don't go, we don't go!!! " So, my liver

> is definitely my boss these days. Even though it is much better, it

> still gave me a major alarm in Feb 2003 after I'd been on Zithromax

> and Minocin, pulsing. I'm sure that neurotoxins built up incredibly

> and caused this -- although the mechanism to explain this is a bit

> over my head to explain simply. I now know better what I need to do

> to keep this from happening again, and have devised a game plan to

> address this lack of detoxification.

>

> Healthy livers to all,

> bg

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > > I've noticed some of the comments about the beneficial aspects

> of

> > milk

> > > > thistle on liver enzymes. I take it myself (since I take

> > > > methotrexate), yet

> > > > I have never really washed it out of my system for a long

> enough

> > time and

> > > > then had lab tests to see if my enzymes were elevated. Have

> some

> > of you

> > > > actually done this or are you making the assumption that it is

> > helping

> > > > (like

> > > > I am)?

> > > >

> > > > Mark

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I have also heard that kids with sulfation problems may have trouble with

Milk Thistle. I do know my son has sulfation problems, and I do know that Milk

Thistle makes him hyperactive. I still slip him a bit now and then.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

If you have a child with a severe phenol intolerance, both foods and

environmental, should Milk Thistle be avoided?

I am preparing to do DDI's Liver Detox panel, and expecting to find that

the liver needs support. My son has elevated liver enzymes and LDH.

Can't do any chelation outside of attempting homeopathic, due to

mitochondria disorder and episodes of lactic acidosis. We believe that

the pathways are blocked due to heavy metals. I'd like to try to help

the liver with CoQ10 and Milk Thistle. However I know that Milk Thistle

is a phenol product. Also what is your thought on using CoQ10 on a child

with this condition?

If we can use the either safely please specify the amount to start with

on a 40 lb child.

Thanks,

Kris

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[Guest guest]

> If you have a child with a severe phenol intolerance, both foods

and

> environmental, should Milk Thistle be avoided?

I don't know. Is milk thistle high in phenols? Or is

alcohol?

> I am preparing to do DDI's Liver Detox panel, and expecting to

find that

> the liver needs support. My son has elevated liver enzymes and

LDH.

> Can't do any chelation outside of attempting homeopathic, due to

> mitochondria disorder and episodes of lactic acidosis.

can you please say more about why this means you should not do

chelation? For example, is this out of concern about the liver?

or that the chelation agent(s) are a problem? or what?

Is there a reason that ALA could not be used?

> We believe that

> the pathways are blocked due to heavy metals. I'd like to try to

help

> the liver with CoQ10 and Milk Thistle. However I know that Milk

Thistle

> is a phenol product.

That is interesting, I didn't know that. If you happen to have

a reference for it, I would like to read it. Artichoke (e.g.

artichoke extract) is also good for the liver but it is in the

same (plant) family as milk thistle, so I'd bet it has the same

issue. You could consider accupunture and/or Chinese herbs

(although I'm wondering, actually, if you would be able to

find out the phenol content....)

What about using no fenol enzymes?

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

> If you have a child with a severe phenol intolerance, both foods and

> environmental, should Milk Thistle be avoided?

My son did not tolerate milk thistle, even with enzymes, until well

into chelation. At first he needed No-Fenol enzyme [after about

round 50], so you can try using that and see if it helps.

Dana

[Guest guest]

--some places sell it (tincture) without alcahol. I used to buy it

before my son could take capsules. Im sorry I cannot remember the

brand name but I know one exists.,

Patti

- In , " pisces1356 " <piscesrr@a...> wrote:

> I've read it's best to give this encapsulated or as an extract.

> However, all the extracts I found have grain alcohol. The lowest

> alcohol extract i found is by Gaia and is 5% alcohol. One drop of it

> gave my son diarrhea. **One drop.** I then bought capsules from

> Kirkman Labs. They are 100mg per cap, and I want to start out with a

> lower dose (25mg).

>

> If I undo the cap and sprinkle 1/4 of it in his juice (to hide the

> taste) will it make it intact to his intestines or will the stomach

> acid kill it? If so, anyone have another suggestion on how to

> administer a low dose? Buying empty caps to re-encapsulate is not

> currently an option, I can't get him to take caps. Is there a low

> dose version of this product? I've checked some websites, couldn't

> find anything lower than what I've got.

>

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

Maybe try Herbs for Kids (herbsforkids.com). Just a thought, sorry have

to run.

[ ] Re: Milk Thistle

--some places sell it (tincture) without alcahol. I used to buy it

before my son could take capsules. Im sorry I cannot remember the

brand name but I know one exists.,

Patti

- In , " pisces1356 " <piscesrr@a...> wrote:

> I've read it's best to give this encapsulated or as an extract.

> However, all the extracts I found have grain alcohol. The lowest

> alcohol extract i found is by Gaia and is 5% alcohol. One drop of it

> gave my son diarrhea. **One drop.** I then bought capsules from

> Kirkman Labs. They are 100mg per cap, and I want to start out with a

> lower dose (25mg).

>

> If I undo the cap and sprinkle 1/4 of it in his juice (to hide the

> taste) will it make it intact to his intestines or will the stomach

> acid kill it? If so, anyone have another suggestion on how to

> administer a low dose? Buying empty caps to re-encapsulate is not

> currently an option, I can't get him to take caps. Is there a low

> dose version of this product? I've checked some websites, couldn't

> find anything lower than what I've got.

>

> Lynn

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