Milk Thistle

[Guest guest]

my 2 cents:

capsules dissolve already in the stomach (that is why when you need

something that will be released only in the gut, after the stomach,

you need " enteric " tablet).

there should be no appreciable difference if the tincture and powder

contain the same ingredients.

> > I've read it's best to give this encapsulated or as an extract.

> > However, all the extracts I found have grain alcohol. The lowest

> > alcohol extract i found is by Gaia and is 5% alcohol. One drop

of it

> > gave my son diarrhea. **One drop.** I then bought capsules from

> > Kirkman Labs. They are 100mg per cap, and I want to start out

with a

> > lower dose (25mg).

> >

> > If I undo the cap and sprinkle 1/4 of it in his juice (to hide

the

> > taste) will it make it intact to his intestines or will the

stomach

> > acid kill it? If so, anyone have another suggestion on how to

> > administer a low dose? Buying empty caps to re-encapsulate is

not

> > currently an option, I can't get him to take caps. Is there a

low

> > dose version of this product? I've checked some websites,

couldn't

> > find anything lower than what I've got.

> >

> > Lynn

[Guest guest]

Or Natures Answer.

[ ] Re: Milk Thistle

--some places sell it (tincture) without alcahol. I used to buy it

before my son could take capsules. Im sorry I cannot remember the

brand name but I know one exists.,

Patti

- In , " pisces1356 " <piscesrr@a...> wrote:

> I've read it's best to give this encapsulated or as an extract.

> However, all the extracts I found have grain alcohol. The lowest

> alcohol extract i found is by Gaia and is 5% alcohol. One drop of it

> gave my son diarrhea. **One drop.** I then bought capsules from

> Kirkman Labs. They are 100mg per cap, and I want to start out with a

> lower dose (25mg).

>

> If I undo the cap and sprinkle 1/4 of it in his juice (to hide the

> taste) will it make it intact to his intestines or will the stomach

> acid kill it? If so, anyone have another suggestion on how to

> administer a low dose? Buying empty caps to re-encapsulate is not

> currently an option, I can't get him to take caps. Is there a low

> dose version of this product? I've checked some websites, couldn't

> find anything lower than what I've got.

>

> Lynn

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

I'm fairly sure that sprinkling 1/4 of the capsule on the food will be fine.

Most herbs (I assume it is powdered milk thistle) used for

medicine/nutritional support will do their job in this form. As far as the

extract goes, your son could have an allergy to grain - I've heard other

people say their kids can't take medicines with grain based alcohols. You

could make your own extract with a non-grain based alcohol. I think it

would be fine. What do you think Moira? The alcohol does help to dissolve

out the substances but I don't suppose the grain based part is essential.

Abby

[ ] Milk Thistle

I've read it's best to give this encapsulated or as an extract.

However, all the extracts I found have grain alcohol. The lowest

alcohol extract i found is by Gaia and is 5% alcohol. One drop of it

gave my son diarrhea. **One drop.** I then bought capsules from

Kirkman Labs. They are 100mg per cap, and I want to start out with a

lower dose (25mg).

If I undo the cap and sprinkle 1/4 of it in his juice (to hide the

taste) will it make it intact to his intestines or will the stomach

acid kill it? If so, anyone have another suggestion on how to

administer a low dose? Buying empty caps to re-encapsulate is not

currently an option, I can't get him to take caps. Is there a low

dose version of this product? I've checked some websites, couldn't

find anything lower than what I've got.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn, and list,

> I've read it's best to give this encapsulated or as an extract.

> However, all the extracts I found have grain alcohol. The lowest

> alcohol extract i found is by Gaia and is 5% alcohol. One drop of

it

> gave my son diarrhea. **One drop.**

I have several comments here.

First, do you think it is the alcohol that causes your son's

diareah? I ask because I don't know.

As for the alcohol content, general background: different

herbs have different needs. Some are best made into stored

medicines using WATER to extract active properties. (Yep,

water.) Others can be extracted with a number of mild

things like vinegar. Milk thistle NEEDS to be extracted

with ALCOHOL. Glycerine is NOT as good. The reason for

this is that milk thistle is VERY VERY VERY hard. I have

tried to break it down ***in a blender*** and it is barely

affected.

I also really doubt that taking the whole herb or powdered herb

would be as good. I'm not positive about it, but I think

the hardness would make it pretty challenging to digest (even

if powdered).

Now, to be clear, I am NOT saying that forms other than an

alcohol tincture have NO potency or use. But I think the

MOST potent form is an alcohol tincture. This is ONE

consideration, but not the only consideration in deciding

what form to use.

Okay, now the next thing is that if you want to use an

alcohol tincture, you can evaporate the alcohol.

Take one dose (e.g. a dropperful) and put it into a

ceramic cup. Add a bit of boiling water. Poof! the

alcohol is gone.

I don't know if any of what I've just said helps you

at all though, with the diareah issue.

> I then bought capsules from

> Kirkman Labs. They are 100mg per cap, and I want to start out

with a

> lower dose (25mg).

>

> If I undo the cap and sprinkle 1/4 of it in his juice (to hide the

> taste) will it make it intact to his intestines or will the stomach

> acid kill it?

The capsule is unimportant. sprinkling is fine.

> If so, anyone have another suggestion on how to

> administer a low dose? Buying empty caps to re-encapsulate is not

> currently an option, I can't get him to take caps. Is there a low

> dose version of this product? I've checked some websites, couldn't

> find anything lower than what I've got.

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

> my 2 cents:

> capsules dissolve already in the stomach (that is why when you

need

> something that will be released only in the gut, after the

stomach,

> you need " enteric " tablet).

> there should be no appreciable difference if the tincture and

powder

> contain the same ingredients.

>

I agree with your reasoning (above).

However, in this case, a powder and a tincture are NOT

the same. A tincture is an ***extract*** and a powder

is not an extract.

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

> We just finished a course of Diflucan about 2 weeks ago and just

> took the last Milk Thistle capsule. Do I continue with the milk

> thistle or is it unnecessary since we are finished with the

> Diflucan?

> -

um, were you asked to use milk thistle because diflucan

is stressful to the liver? That would make sense.

I'd guess you would do well to continue the milk thistle,

unless there is some problem with it. It is a nice

gentle support for the liver, can be used long term,

and really I think it would be more effective over a

longer time.

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

> I'm fairly sure that sprinkling 1/4 of the capsule on the food

will be fine.

> Most herbs (I assume it is powdered milk thistle) used for

> medicine/nutritional support will do their job in this form. As

far as the

> extract goes, your son could have an allergy to grain - I've heard

other

> people say their kids can't take medicines with grain based

alcohols. You

> could make your own extract with a non-grain based alcohol. I

think it

> would be fine. What do you think Moira? The alcohol does help to

dissolve

> out the substances but I don't suppose the grain based part is

essential.

>

> Abby

Hi Abby, I plead total ignorance. I don't know what alcohol

is " non-grain based " . I'll have to mull that over LOL.

I do agree with your thinking above though in all other

respects. I would add that for milk thistle you should

use a strong proof alcohol (nothing " wimpy " LOL). And

use the alcohol straight.

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

I think you need the extract, silymarin. -KIM

[ ] milk thistle

Hello all. I am a little confused about milk thistle. Many of the

brands list both milk thistle extract and milk thistle powder in

different mg's. (milk thistle extract 100mg and milk thistle powder

350mg.) Which one should I be looking at, the extract or powder mg's?

Thanks in advance. Tina

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

> Hello all. I am a little confused about milk thistle. Many of the

> brands list both milk thistle extract and milk thistle powder in

> different mg's. (milk thistle extract 100mg and milk thistle

powder

> 350mg.) Which one should I be looking at, the extract or powder

mg's?

> Thanks in advance. Tina

Well, I don't know which you should be looking at, but

they are 2 different things.

Milk thistle --- the part of the plant used medicinally,

that is --- is a seed. A very very hard seed. If you

somehow ground it up (with a VERY strong grinder), you

would get a powder.

If you put the seed in alcohol* and left it there for

a couple of weeks, you would get an extract.

(*in theory herbal extractions can be made with other

liquids, but in this example I am saying alcohol only,

and I believe alcohol is far superior for extracting

milk thistle.)

I personally use milk thistle EXTRACT. I question

whether powder will be digested adequately. I don't

know, but I feel a bit wary about it.

I would NOT recommend an extract made with, say,

glycerine, vinegar, or wine.

These recommendations might vary depending on what

herb we are discussing, and what herbalist you ask.

(Some herbalists favor whole herb, or favor pills,

or favor " granules " . Different herbs are more potent

in different forms, or are extracted better with

different menstrums.)

I hope that helped LOL.

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

>

> For those of you who use this in a tincture, what brand you

suggest,

> and how do you dose a tincture vs the powdered form i can measure

in

> milligrams. Right now I am splitting a 100 mg pill 4 x's a day

for

> my child.

>

> Thx! ~Kris

Hello Kris,

I use both a local brand (which is inexpensive) and sometimes

I make my own. I think Rainbow Light is a good brand.

I don't know how the amount of tincture relates to the amount

of powder, but I think an alcohol tincture is the most effective

form for milk thistle, and recommend using it in this form.

I'm not sure what the " right " amount is for tincture, but a

VERY GENERAL guideline for an adult would be 2 - 3 dropperfuls

2 or 3 times a day. So for a child, maybe 1/2 dropperful

3 or 4 times a day. (1/2 dropperful is 10 drops).

If you want to you can evaporate the alcohol in the tincture

as follows:

measure out the drops for one dose into a mug. Add boiling

water. This removes (evaporates) the alcohol. Then you can

wait for it to cool or add some cool water (or other liquid).

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

Does anybody know why I dwould have a seizure-like attack from two caps of

milk thistle?

~Inga

_________

on 10/19/04 9:15 PM, moriamerri at moriam@... wrote:

>

>

>

>>

>> For those of you who use this in a tincture, what brand you

> suggest,

>> and how do you dose a tincture vs the powdered form i can measure

> in

>> milligrams. Right now I am splitting a 100 mg pill 4 x's a day

> for

>> my child.

>>

>> Thx! ~Kris

>

> Hello Kris,

>

> I use both a local brand (which is inexpensive) and sometimes

> I make my own. I think Rainbow Light is a good brand.

>

> I don't know how the amount of tincture relates to the amount

> of powder, but I think an alcohol tincture is the most effective

> form for milk thistle, and recommend using it in this form.

>

> I'm not sure what the " right " amount is for tincture, but a

> VERY GENERAL guideline for an adult would be 2 - 3 dropperfuls

> 2 or 3 times a day. So for a child, maybe 1/2 dropperful

> 3 or 4 times a day. (1/2 dropperful is 10 drops).

>

>

> If you want to you can evaporate the alcohol in the tincture

> as follows:

> measure out the drops for one dose into a mug. Add boiling

> water. This removes (evaporates) the alcohol. Then you can

> wait for it to cool or add some cool water (or other liquid).

>

> good wishes,

> Moria

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Can anybody tell me what is going on if Milk Thistle sends me into attack?

~Inga

[Guest guest]

> Can anybody tell me what is going on if Milk Thistle sends me into

attack?

You might not tolerate it. It is also high phenol, I believe. You

can try taking it with No-Fenol enzyme, see if that helps

http://www.houstonni.com/

Dana

[Guest guest]

> Does anybody know why I dwould have a seizure-like attack from two

caps of

> milk thistle?

> ~Inga

>

no, but it does mean to me that you should not try taking it.

Do you happen to have negative responses to eating artichokes?

The plants are related.

good wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

Is it good to give a child milk thistle while they are chelating?

Hope

> > Does anybody know why I dwould have a seizure-like attack from two

> caps of

> > milk thistle?

> > ~Inga

> >

>

> no, but it does mean to me that you should not try taking it.

>

> Do you happen to have negative responses to eating artichokes?

> The plants are related.

>

> good wishes,

> Moria

[Guest guest]

> > > Does anybody know why I dwould have a seizure-like attack from

two

> > caps of

> > > milk thistle?

> > > ~Inga

> > >

> >

> > no, but it does mean to me that you should not try taking it.

> >

> > Do you happen to have negative responses to eating artichokes?

> > The plants are related.

> >

> > good wishes,

> > Moria

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Is it good to give a child milk thistle while they are chelating?

> >

> yes, it is.

> Milk thistle is a liver support herb.

I agree with Moira that milk thistle should be helpful for most of

us. However, I've read that it can be dangerous for someone with

impaired sulfation, e.g., phenol-sulfotransferase (PST) deficiency.

Apparently milk thistle stimulates Phase I liver activity, which is a

good thing UNLESS your Phase II pathways are deficient. Phase I

apparently makes toxins a little more toxic in readiness for Phase II

clearance from the body. If you stimulate Phase I pathways, but have

deficient Phase II pathways, you get stuck with substances in an even

more toxic form.

I got this info from a lengthy 2001 post by Jim Blanco and

Williss on this very list. A Google search led me to

the post, which is how I discovered this group.

As for knowing if your child's phase II pathways are intact, I'll bet

Andy's book discusses appropriate lab tests.

Best wishes,

Deborah

[Guest guest]

Thanks

This is all still pretty new to me and it takes awhile to assimilate

it all (even the little I've read). I appreciate your answer. Rose

>

> I have 100 mg veg caps and the bottle recommends 2 caps 2-3 times a

day which would be the dose for an adult of about 150 lbs, so adjust

that depending upon the individual's weight. If the individual's

abdomen is hard or painful in the area of the liver, those symptoms

should begin to abate within a week or so.

> S

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie,

According to the files, Andy recommends: ¼-1 cap (20-80 mg) per dose/

4 times a day. This isn't based on weight. I'm giving the upper dose

now to my son (320 mg/day) who weighs only 32 pounds. We're chelating

pretty aggressively (3.5 on, 3.5 off) so I worked up to the max. He

seems not to have any problems with it.

Anita

> Hi! How much milk thistle is acceptable to give a child who is 6.6

yo and 55 lbs? I was giving 150 mg a day and increased it to 300 mg

(spaced throughout the day) this round and he is experiencing some

belly discomfort. Pooping a lot too I might add. I am going to cut

back to original dosing, but just wanted to find out how much people

are giving kids.

>

> Thanks!

> Jackie---

>

>

[Guest guest]

I got some whole Milk Thistle seed and have been grinding it up, and do

not know the potency.

I don't know exactly how much I am taking now, especially when one

considers fillers. What happens if one takes too much?

Anybody know?

Inga

On Sep 17, 2005, at 9:44 PM, Anita Kugelstadt wrote:

>

> According to the files, Andy recommends: ¼-1 cap (20-80 mg) per dose/

> 4 times a day. This isn't based on weight. I'm giving the upper dose

> now to my son (320 mg/day) who weighs only 32 pounds. We're chelating

> pretty aggressively (3.5 on, 3.5 off) so I worked up to the max. He

> seems not to have any problems with it.

>

> Anita

[Guest guest]

I just posted about this last weekend since I upped my 6 yo's dose and he

was pooping up a storm and then later complained about a belly ache. It is

not given based on weight and you can give between 20-80 mgs 4 times a day.

(80-320 mg a day). I use Natural Factors Milk Thistle and they come in 150

mg capsules.

Jackie---

>I need your expertise concerning milk thistle. For an almost 15 year

> old, about 100-110 lbs, what dosage (mg. and # of times) should I use?

> Is there a particular brand that is used by most of you?

>

> Lila

[Guest guest]

> I need your expertise concerning milk thistle. For an almost 15 year

> old, about 100-110 lbs, what dosage (mg. and # of times) should I use?

> Is there a particular brand that is used by most of you?

>

> Lila

I give my 80lb daughter one HNI Milk Thistle Plus with each meal and

it seems to work fine. It includes Milk Thistle, artichoke and

tumeric. I like this kind because it is a relatively low dose and I

can just give the capsules as is without having to split them up, but

it is more than I think Andy recommends. I don't think milk thistle

has been shown to be toxic no matter how high the dose.

http://houstonni.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=HNI-USA & Produ\

ct_Code=RV728 & Category_Code=E

[Guest guest]

yes, good for liver function. helps it to process all the toxins. you can take

it in capsule form or get it in detox teas. used in Chinese medicine for a very

long time.

" (=^.^=) meow " <janey@...> wrote:

anyone take it?

janey

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

Hi ;

Have you used it? Would you say that it causes diarrhea or not? Just

wondering. Someone mentioned it's extremely high in oxalates, BTW.

Thanks,

Mark

> anyone take it?

> janey

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

I have used it and given it to my husband and three kids at one time or another.

I like to give it when we are really fighting something and taking a lot of

supplements. We haven't had any issues with it but my bunch really isn't prone

to negative effects from supplements.

I can't comment on oxalates, don't know what that is, sorry.

redrackem <redrackem@...> wrote:

Hi ;

Have you used it? Would you say that it causes diarrhea or not? Just

wondering. Someone mentioned it's extremely high in oxalates, BTW.

Thanks,

Mark

> anyone take it?

> janey

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>