Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 --- yes they can make an anti decay vaccine and then an anti stench pill. These people are sick. Anything for a buck In EOHarm , " anacat_11 " wrote: > > What will the next frontier be when there's no healthy people left-- > dead people? > > Scientists back brain drugs for healthy people > > NEW YORK – Healthy people should have the right to boost their brains > with pills, like those prescribed for hyperactive kids or memory- > impaired older folks, several scientists contend in a provocative > commentary. > > College students are already illegally taking prescription stimulants > like Ritalin to help them study, and demand for such drugs is likely > to grow elsewhere, they say. > > " We should welcome new methods of improving our brain function, " and > doing it with pills is no more morally objectionable than eating > right or getting a good night's sleep, these experts wrote in an > opinion piece published online Sunday by the journal Nature. > > The commentary calls for more research and a variety of steps for > managing the risks. > > As more effective brain-boosting pills are developed, demand for them > is likely to grow among middle-aged people who want youthful memory > powers and multitasking workers who need to keep track of multiple > demands, said one commentary author, brain scientist Martha Farah of > the University of Pennsylvania. > > " Almost everybody is going to want to use it, " Farah said. > > " I would be the first in line if safe and effective drugs were > developed that trumped caffeine, " another author, Gazzaniga > of the University of California, Santa Barbara, declared in an e- mail. > > The seven authors, from the United States and Britain, include ethics > experts and the editor-in-chief of Nature as well as scientists. They > developed their case at a seminar funded by Nature and Rockefeller > University in New York. Two authors said they consult for > pharmaceutical companies; Farah said she had no such financial ties. > > Some health experts agreed that the issue deserves attention. But the > commentary didn't impress Leigh of the University of Minnesota > Center for Bioethics. > > " It's a nice puff piece for selling medications for people who don't > have an illness of any kind, " said. > > The commentary cites a 2001 survey of about 11,000 American college > students that found 4 percent had used prescription stimulants > illegally in the prior year. But at some colleges, the figure was as > high as 25 percent. > > " It's a felony, but it's being done, " Farah said. > > The stimulants Adderall and Ritalin are prescribed mainly for people > with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, but they can help > other people focus their attention and handle information in their > heads, the commentary says. > > Another drug called Provigil is approved for sleep disorders but is > also prescribed for healthy people who need to stay alert when sleep- > deprived, the commentary says. Lab studies show it can also perk up > the brains of well-rested people. And some drugs developed for > Alzheimer's disease also provide a modest memory boost, it says. > > Ritalin is made by Switzerland-based Novartis AG, but the drug is > also available generically. Adderall is made by U.K.-based Shire PLC > and Montvale, N.J.-based Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc., and some > formulations are also available generically. Provigil is made by > Cephalon Inc. of Frazer, Pa. > > While supporting the concept that healthy adults should be able to > use brain-boosting drugs, the authors called for: > > • More research into the use, benefits and risks of such drugs. Much > is unknown about the current medications, such as the risk of > dependency when used for this purpose, the commentary said. Also, > according to the Food and Drug Administration, Adderall, for example, > is an amphetamine that carries warnings about possible sudden death, > heart attack and stroke, especially for people with heart problems. > > • Policies to guard against people being coerced into taking them. > > • Steps to keep the benefits from making socio-economic inequalities > worse. > > • Action by doctors, educators and others to develop policies on the > use of such drugs by healthy people. > > • Legislative action to allow drug companies to market the drugs to > healthy people if they meet regulatory standards for safety and > effectiveness. > > Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, > said she agreed with the commentary that the nonprescribed use of > brain-boosting drugs must be studied. > > But she said she was concerned that wider use of stimulants could > lead more people to become addicted to them. That's what happened > decades ago when they were widely prescribed for a variety of > disorders, she said. > > " Whether we like it or not, that property of stimulants is not going > to go away, " she said. > > Parens, a senior research scholar at the Hastings Center, a > bioethics think tank in Garrison, N.Y., said the commentary makes a > convincing case that " we ought to be opening this up for public > scrutiny and public conversation. " > > One challenge will be finding ways to protect people against subtle > coercion to use the drugs, the kind of thing parents feel when > neighbor kids sign up for SAT prep courses, he said. > > And if the nation moves to providing a basic package of health care > to all its citizens, it's hard to see how it could afford to include > brain-boosting drugs, he said. If they have to be bought separately, > it raises the question about promoting societal inequalities, he > said. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 It's not about making money, they have all the money they need. These insane radicals are out for POWER! And the only way they can control the masses is to decrease the population of the masses, which i theorize they will do with the hpn51 (sp) (the bird flu vax) when civil unrest starts, because folks are loosing their jobs and their retirement and their way of life. That's my theroy and i'm sticking to it. All these bailouts are for is to postpone the inevitible, which is the complete and total demise of the American economy. It's only a matter of time. Connie > > > > What will the next frontier be when there's no healthy people left-- > > > dead people? > > > > Scientists back brain drugs for healthy people > > > > NEW YORK – Healthy people should have the right to boost their > brains > > with pills, like those prescribed for hyperactive kids or memory- > > impaired older folks, several scientists contend in a provocative > > commentary. > > > > College students are already illegally taking prescription > stimulants > > like Ritalin to help them study, and demand for such drugs is > likely > > to grow elsewhere, they say. > > > > " We should welcome new methods of improving our brain function, " > and > > doing it with pills is no more morally objectionable than eating > > right or getting a good night's sleep, these experts wrote in an > > opinion piece published online Sunday by the journal Nature. > > > > The commentary calls for more research and a variety of steps for > > managing the risks. > > > > As more effective brain-boosting pills are developed, demand for > them > > is likely to grow among middle-aged people who want youthful memory > > powers and multitasking workers who need to keep track of multiple > > demands, said one commentary author, brain scientist Martha Farah > of > > the University of Pennsylvania. > > > > " Almost everybody is going to want to use it, " Farah said. > > > > " I would be the first in line if safe and effective drugs were > > developed that trumped caffeine, " another author, Gazzaniga > > of the University of California, Santa Barbara, declared in an e- > mail. > > > > The seven authors, from the United States and Britain, include > ethics > > experts and the editor-in-chief of Nature as well as scientists. > They > > developed their case at a seminar funded by Nature and Rockefeller > > University in New York. Two authors said they consult for > > pharmaceutical companies; Farah said she had no such financial ties. > > > > Some health experts agreed that the issue deserves attention. But > the > > commentary didn't impress Leigh of the University of > Minnesota > > Center for Bioethics. > > > > " It's a nice puff piece for selling medications for people who > don't > > have an illness of any kind, " said. > > > > The commentary cites a 2001 survey of about 11,000 American college > > students that found 4 percent had used prescription stimulants > > illegally in the prior year. But at some colleges, the figure was > as > > high as 25 percent. > > > > " It's a felony, but it's being done, " Farah said. > > > > The stimulants Adderall and Ritalin are prescribed mainly for > people > > with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, but they can help > > other people focus their attention and handle information in their > > heads, the commentary says. > > > > Another drug called Provigil is approved for sleep disorders but is > > also prescribed for healthy people who need to stay alert when > sleep- > > deprived, the commentary says. Lab studies show it can also perk up > > the brains of well-rested people. And some drugs developed for > > Alzheimer's disease also provide a modest memory boost, it says. > > > > Ritalin is made by Switzerland-based Novartis AG, but the drug is > > also available generically. Adderall is made by U.K.-based Shire > PLC > > and Montvale, N.J.-based Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc., and some > > formulations are also available generically. Provigil is made by > > Cephalon Inc. of Frazer, Pa. > > > > While supporting the concept that healthy adults should be able to > > use brain-boosting drugs, the authors called for: > > > > • More research into the use, benefits and risks of such drugs. > Much > > is unknown about the current medications, such as the risk of > > dependency when used for this purpose, the commentary said. Also, > > according to the Food and Drug Administration, Adderall, for > example, > > is an amphetamine that carries warnings about possible sudden > death, > > heart attack and stroke, especially for people with heart problems. > > > > • Policies to guard against people being coerced into taking them. > > > > • Steps to keep the benefits from making socio-economic > inequalities > > worse. > > > > • Action by doctors, educators and others to develop policies on > the > > use of such drugs by healthy people. > > > > • Legislative action to allow drug companies to market the drugs to > > healthy people if they meet regulatory standards for safety and > > effectiveness. > > > > Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, > > said she agreed with the commentary that the nonprescribed use of > > brain-boosting drugs must be studied. > > > > But she said she was concerned that wider use of stimulants could > > lead more people to become addicted to them. That's what happened > > decades ago when they were widely prescribed for a variety of > > disorders, she said. > > > > " Whether we like it or not, that property of stimulants is not > going > > to go away, " she said. > > > > Parens, a senior research scholar at the Hastings Center, a > > bioethics think tank in Garrison, N.Y., said the commentary makes a > > convincing case that " we ought to be opening this up for public > > scrutiny and public conversation. " > > > > One challenge will be finding ways to protect people against subtle > > coercion to use the drugs, the kind of thing parents feel when > > neighbor kids sign up for SAT prep courses, he said. > > > > And if the nation moves to providing a basic package of health care > > to all its citizens, it's hard to see how it could afford to > include > > brain-boosting drugs, he said. If they have to be bought > separately, > > it raises the question about promoting societal inequalities, he > > said. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 I was just about to post this since I saw it in the Dallas Morning News this morning (as I almost spit out my coffee). But when I went online to find it there, I found this interesting commentary to the article. This commentary makes good points until the shocking argument that promoting these brain-boosting drugs may give wealthy people an edge in school and work and poor people would be disadvantaged because the country can't afford to nationalize this type of drug use. Unbelievable. Key points: Suggested policies for brain-boosting drugs www.dallasnews.com 12:00 AM CST on Monday, December 8, 2008 While arguing that healthy adults should be able to use brain- boosting drugs, the authors of a commentary on the journal Nature Web site called for: • More research into the use, benefits and risks of such drugs. Much is unknown about the current medications, such as the risk of dependency when used for this purpose, the commentary said. Also, according to the Food and Drug Administration, Adderall, for example, is an amphetamine that carries warnings about possible sudden death, heart attack and stroke, especially for people with heart problems. • Policies to guard against people being coerced into taking them. • Steps to keep the benefits from making socioeconomic inequalities worse. The authors are concerned that the government can not afford to provide the drugs under any national health care policy. And that would mean only the wealthier could afford them, providing an advantage in school and work. • Action by doctors, educators and others to develop policies on the use of such drugs by healthy people. • Laws and regulations to allow drug companies to market the drugs to healthy people, if they meet regulatory standards for safety and effectiveness. > > What will the next frontier be when there's no healthy people left-- > dead people? > > Scientists back brain drugs for healthy people > > NEW YORK – Healthy people should have the right to boost their brains > with pills, like those prescribed for hyperactive kids or memory- > impaired older folks, several scientists contend in a provocative > commentary. > > College students are already illegally taking prescription stimulants > like Ritalin to help them study, and demand for such drugs is likely > to grow elsewhere, they say. > > " We should welcome new methods of improving our brain function, " and > doing it with pills is no more morally objectionable than eating > right or getting a good night's sleep, these experts wrote in an > opinion piece published online Sunday by the journal Nature. > > The commentary calls for more research and a variety of steps for > managing the risks. > > As more effective brain-boosting pills are developed, demand for them > is likely to grow among middle-aged people who want youthful memory > powers and multitasking workers who need to keep track of multiple > demands, said one commentary author, brain scientist Martha Farah of > the University of Pennsylvania. > > " Almost everybody is going to want to use it, " Farah said. > > " I would be the first in line if safe and effective drugs were > developed that trumped caffeine, " another author, Gazzaniga > of the University of California, Santa Barbara, declared in an e- mail. > > The seven authors, from the United States and Britain, include ethics > experts and the editor-in-chief of Nature as well as scientists. They > developed their case at a seminar funded by Nature and Rockefeller > University in New York. Two authors said they consult for > pharmaceutical companies; Farah said she had no such financial ties. > > Some health experts agreed that the issue deserves attention. But the > commentary didn't impress Leigh of the University of Minnesota > Center for Bioethics. > > " It's a nice puff piece for selling medications for people who don't > have an illness of any kind, " said. > > The commentary cites a 2001 survey of about 11,000 American college > students that found 4 percent had used prescription stimulants > illegally in the prior year. But at some colleges, the figure was as > high as 25 percent. > > " It's a felony, but it's being done, " Farah said. > > The stimulants Adderall and Ritalin are prescribed mainly for people > with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, but they can help > other people focus their attention and handle information in their > heads, the commentary says. > > Another drug called Provigil is approved for sleep disorders but is > also prescribed for healthy people who need to stay alert when sleep- > deprived, the commentary says. Lab studies show it can also perk up > the brains of well-rested people. And some drugs developed for > Alzheimer's disease also provide a modest memory boost, it says. > > Ritalin is made by Switzerland-based Novartis AG, but the drug is > also available generically. Adderall is made by U.K.-based Shire PLC > and Montvale, N.J.-based Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc., and some > formulations are also available generically. Provigil is made by > Cephalon Inc. of Frazer, Pa. > > While supporting the concept that healthy adults should be able to > use brain-boosting drugs, the authors called for: > > • More research into the use, benefits and risks of such drugs. Much > is unknown about the current medications, such as the risk of > dependency when used for this purpose, the commentary said. Also, > according to the Food and Drug Administration, Adderall, for example, > is an amphetamine that carries warnings about possible sudden death, > heart attack and stroke, especially for people with heart problems. > > • Policies to guard against people being coerced into taking them. > > • Steps to keep the benefits from making socio-economic inequalities > worse. > > • Action by doctors, educators and others to develop policies on the > use of such drugs by healthy people. > > • Legislative action to allow drug companies to market the drugs to > healthy people if they meet regulatory standards for safety and > effectiveness. > > Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, > said she agreed with the commentary that the nonprescribed use of > brain-boosting drugs must be studied. > > But she said she was concerned that wider use of stimulants could > lead more people to become addicted to them. That's what happened > decades ago when they were widely prescribed for a variety of > disorders, she said. > > " Whether we like it or not, that property of stimulants is not going > to go away, " she said. > > Parens, a senior research scholar at the Hastings Center, a > bioethics think tank in Garrison, N.Y., said the commentary makes a > convincing case that " we ought to be opening this up for public > scrutiny and public conversation. " > > One challenge will be finding ways to protect people against subtle > coercion to use the drugs, the kind of thing parents feel when > neighbor kids sign up for SAT prep courses, he said. > > And if the nation moves to providing a basic package of health care > to all its citizens, it's hard to see how it could afford to include > brain-boosting drugs, he said. If they have to be bought separately, > it raises the question about promoting societal inequalities, he > said. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 They reported on this last night on the 11:00 news on ABC,NY. I nearly fell off the chair, and then I thought, Oh I had to have heard that wrong. Guess not. This is CRAZY!! Subject: OT: Scientists back brain drugs for healthy people.To: EOHarm Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 8:34 PM What will the next frontier be when there's no healthy people left-- dead people? Scientists back brain drugs for healthy peopleNEW YORK – Healthy people should have the right to boost their brains with pills, like those prescribed for hyperactive kids or memory-impaired older folks, several scientists contend in a provocative commentary.College students are already illegally taking prescription stimulants like Ritalin to help them study, and demand for such drugs is likely to grow elsewhere, they say."We should welcome new methods of improving our brain function," and doing it with pills is no more morally objectionable than eating right or getting a good night's sleep, these experts wrote in an opinion piece published online Sunday by the journal Nature.The commentary calls for more research and a variety of steps for managing the risks.As more effective brain-boosting pills are developed, demand for them is likely to grow among middle-aged people who want youthful memory powers and multitasking workers who need to keep track of multiple demands, said one commentary author, brain scientist Martha Farah of the University of Pennsylvania."Almost everybody is going to want to use it," Farah said."I would be the first in line if safe and effective drugs were developed that trumped caffeine," another author, Gazzaniga of the University of California, Santa Barbara, declared in an e-mail.The seven authors, from the United States and Britain, include ethics experts and the editor-in-chief of Nature as well as scientists. They developed their case at a seminar funded by Nature and Rockefeller University in New York. Two authors said they consult for pharmaceutical companies; Farah said she had no such financial ties.Some health experts agreed that the issue deserves attention. But the commentary didn't impress Leigh of the University of Minnesota Center for Bioethics."It's a nice puff piece for selling medications for people who don't have an illness of any kind," said.The commentary cites a 2001 survey of about 11,000 American college students that found 4 percent had used prescription stimulants illegally in the prior year. But at some colleges, the figure was as high as 25 percent."It's a felony, but it's being done," Farah said.The stimulants Adderall and Ritalin are prescribed mainly for people with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, but they can help other people focus their attention and handle information in their heads, the commentary says.Another drug called Provigil is approved for sleep disorders but is also prescribed for healthy people who need to stay alert when sleep-deprived, the commentary says. Lab studies show it can also perk up the brains of well-rested people. And some drugs developed for Alzheimer's disease also provide a modest memory boost, it says.Ritalin is made by Switzerland- based Novartis AG, but the drug is also available generically. Adderall is made by U.K.-based Shire PLC and Montvale, N.J.-based Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc., and some formulations are also available generically. Provigil is made by Cephalon Inc. of Frazer, Pa.While supporting the concept that healthy adults should be able to use brain-boosting drugs, the authors called for:• More research into the use, benefits and risks of such drugs. Much is unknown about the current medications, such as the risk of dependency when used for this purpose, the commentary said. Also, according to the Food and Drug Administration, Adderall, for example, is an amphetamine that carries warnings about possible sudden death, heart attack and stroke, especially for people with heart problems.• Policies to guard against people being coerced into taking them. • Steps to keep the benefits from making socio-economic inequalities worse. • Action by doctors, educators and others to develop policies on the use of such drugs by healthy people. • Legislative action to allow drug companies to market the drugs to healthy people if they meet regulatory standards for safety and effectiveness. Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, said she agreed with the commentary that the nonprescribed use of brain-boosting drugs must be studied. But she said she was concerned that wider use of stimulants could lead more people to become addicted to them. That's what happened decades ago when they were widely prescribed for a variety of disorders, she said. "Whether we like it or not, that property of stimulants is not going to go away," she said. Parens, a senior research scholar at the Hastings Center, a bioethics think tank in Garrison, N.Y., said the commentary makes a convincing case that "we ought to be opening this up for public scrutiny and public conversation. " One challenge will be finding ways to protect people against subtle coercion to use the drugs, the kind of thing parents feel when neighbor kids sign up for SAT prep courses, he said. And if the nation moves to providing a basic package of health care to all its citizens, it's hard to see how it could afford to include brain-boosting drugs, he said. If they have to be bought separately, it raises the question about promoting societal inequalities, he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 You have forgotten Peak oil. That is pretty imminant, http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ Re: OT: Scientists back brain drugs for healthy people. It's not about making money, they have all the money they need. These insane radicals are out for POWER! And the only way they can control the masses is to decrease the population of the masses, which i theorize they will do with the hpn51 (sp) (the bird flu vax) when civil unrest starts, because folks are loosing their jobs and their retirement and their way of life. That's my theroy and i'm sticking to it. All these bailouts are for is to postpone the inevitible, which is the complete and total demise of the American economy. It's only a matter of time.Connie> >> > What will the next frontier be when there's no healthy people left--> > > dead people? > > > > Scientists back brain drugs for healthy people> > > > NEW YORK – Healthy people should have the right to boost their > brains > > with pills, like those prescribed for hyperactive kids or memory-> > impaired older folks, several scientists contend in a provocative > > commentary.> > > > College students are already illegally taking prescription > stimulants > > like Ritalin to help them study, and demand for such drugs is > likely > > to grow elsewhere, they say.> > > > "We should welcome new methods of improving our brain function," > and > > doing it with pills is no more morally objectionable than eating > > right or getting a good night's sleep, these experts wrote in an > > opinion piece published online Sunday by the journal Nature.> > > > The commentary calls for more research and a variety of steps for > > managing the risks.> > > > As more effective brain-boosting pills are developed, demand for > them > > is likely to grow among middle-aged people who want youthful memory > > powers and multitasking workers who need to keep track of multiple > > demands, said one commentary author, brain scientist Martha Farah > of > > the University of Pennsylvania.> > > > "Almost everybody is going to want to use it," Farah said.> > > > "I would be the first in line if safe and effective drugs were > > developed that trumped caffeine," another author, Gazzaniga > > of the University of California, Santa Barbara, declared in an e-> mail.> > > > The seven authors, from the United States and Britain, include > ethics > > experts and the editor-in-chief of Nature as well as scientists. > They > > developed their case at a seminar funded by Nature and Rockefeller > > University in New York. Two authors said they consult for > > pharmaceutical companies; Farah said she had no such financial ties.> > > > Some health experts agreed that the issue deserves attention. But > the > > commentary didn't impress Leigh of the University of > Minnesota > > Center for Bioethics.> > > > "It's a nice puff piece for selling medications for people who > don't > > have an illness of any kind," said.> > > > The commentary cites a 2001 survey of about 11,000 American college > > students that found 4 percent had used prescription stimulants > > illegally in the prior year. But at some colleges, the figure was > as > > high as 25 percent.> > > > "It's a felony, but it's being done," Farah said.> > > > The stimulants Adderall and Ritalin are prescribed mainly for > people > > with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, but they can help > > other people focus their attention and handle information in their > > heads, the commentary says.> > > > Another drug called Provigil is approved for sleep disorders but is > > also prescribed for healthy people who need to stay alert when > sleep-> > deprived, the commentary says. Lab studies show it can also perk up > > the brains of well-rested people. And some drugs developed for > > Alzheimer's disease also provide a modest memory boost, it says.> > > > Ritalin is made by Switzerland-based Novartis AG, but the drug is > > also available generically. Adderall is made by U.K.-based Shire > PLC > > and Montvale, N.J.-based Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc., and some > > formulations are also available generically. Provigil is made by > > Cephalon Inc. of Frazer, Pa.> > > > While supporting the concept that healthy adults should be able to > > use brain-boosting drugs, the authors called for:> > > > • More research into the use, benefits and risks of such drugs. > Much > > is unknown about the current medications, such as the risk of > > dependency when used for this purpose, the commentary said. Also, > > according to the Food and Drug Administration, Adderall, for > example, > > is an amphetamine that carries warnings about possible sudden > death, > > heart attack and stroke, especially for people with heart problems.> > > > • Policies to guard against people being coerced into taking them. > > > > • Steps to keep the benefits from making socio-economic > inequalities > > worse. > > > > • Action by doctors, educators and others to develop policies on > the > > use of such drugs by healthy people. > > > > • Legislative action to allow drug companies to market the drugs to > > healthy people if they meet regulatory standards for safety and > > effectiveness. > > > > Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, > > said she agreed with the commentary that the nonprescribed use of > > brain-boosting drugs must be studied. > > > > But she said she was concerned that wider use of stimulants could > > lead more people to become addicted to them. That's what happened > > decades ago when they were widely prescribed for a variety of > > disorders, she said. > > > > "Whether we like it or not, that property of stimulants is not > going > > to go away," she said. > > > > Parens, a senior research scholar at the Hastings Center, a > > bioethics think tank in Garrison, N.Y., said the commentary makes a > > convincing case that "we ought to be opening this up for public > > scrutiny and public conversation." > > > > One challenge will be finding ways to protect people against subtle > > coercion to use the drugs, the kind of thing parents feel when > > neighbor kids sign up for SAT prep courses, he said. > > > > And if the nation moves to providing a basic package of health care > > to all its citizens, it's hard to see how it could afford to > include > > brain-boosting drugs, he said. If they have to be bought > separately, > > it raises the question about promoting societal inequalities, he > > said.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.