Dear friends of Sickbuildings From Ritchie C. Shoemaker MD

[Guest guest]

Ritchie: Thank for the post. I am of the same opinion as you.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

Ritchie and Jack,

We have been fighting this fight together for a long time. I sincerely

appreciate this posting that no one is going to get sued for getting too

close to me as I continue to peel back the layers of the rotten onion of deceit

over this issue. Unfounded fear of retribution causes some to remain

silent or even attempt to distance themselves from those who will speak out. It

doesn't help and plays into the defense's hands. Since when is that the

United States of America that people can't speak out of a known wrong and

their peers help to encourage this?

Now that I have firm commitment that no one is going to run for unfounded

fear and pull support for those UC letters that were voted on to send by

majority vote, I am going to put them to good use to help tell the story of

how the ACOEM mold statement and the Chamber mold statement, that both carry

the name University of California, are being used to set false health

policy that no one is seriously ill from mold.; thereby shifting the tax burden

off of insurers for these illnesses and onto the taxpayer of America.

Thanks, you guys!

Sharon

In a message dated 8/27/2010 4:17:04 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

toxicologist1@... writes:

Ritchie: Thank for the post. I am of the same opinion as you.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

_toxicologist1@..._ (mailto:toxicologist1@...)

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

_sandracrawley@..._ (mailto:sandracrawley@...)

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

I agree with Dr. Shoemaker. We have to stand strong together in order to

have our voices heard!!

I have seen lots of progress over the years, but am hoping that one day, in

the very near future, all our many voices will become on giant one that

can't be ignored!

[Guest guest]

Yes Sharon has worked very hard for many years. So many have but I guess we

all work in different areas. I am all for what she is doing. As long as you

don't lie about stuff I believe you can say what you want. I am not afraid at

all to talk. I use to be, but after a while it gets easy. I welcome all the new

people. It is so very hard at first, and as the years go by it is hard from

exhaustion, etc. I wish I never knew all of this info, but once you know it

most people have to finish the job. We have come a long way...

>

>

>

> Ritchie and Jack,

>

> We have been fighting this fight together for a long time. I

[Guest guest]

Dr. Shoemaker and Dr. Thrasher:

As a relative newcomer to this group, I thank you for your loving reminders to

our Sickbuildings group members that we are not " the enemy. " I have recently

come to view this site as a haven, a place where support, expertise, reviews,

and information flow freely and generously. In bed for the past few days and

visually unable to read/process information, I re-entered my e-mail and began

reading some recent posts. I hesitate to respond when I am feeling vulnerable,

but I wanted to express appreciation to Dr. Thrasher and Dr. Shoemaker for their

respective voices of compassion and reason. Over the past month or so, I have

witnessed the transformation of a group that offered hope to one that frequently

offers disdain and judgment of others who may have differing views and/or

symptoms. I came to this group originally to understand the basic concept of a

Sick Building, pondering whether I was in fact a victim of a workplace building

that was hurting my lungs and burning my eyes. That initial exposure continued,

even after numerous complaints and requests to move. I am currently disabled by

my symptoms, which range from heart failure to emphysems, symptoms that not only

have robbed me of my physical vitality but also my cognitive and emotional

strengths. I find myself saddened by the personal affronts and suspicious posts

I've read recently. In three short years, what was once a possibility of

exposure in the workplace and a potential explanation for lung issues has now

become a nightmare of seemingly unpredictable symptoms and reactions to a

previously " safe " world.

Currently disabled after a four-decades-long commitment to psychology and social

work, I have to wonder about what would prompt a reader/member to dismiss " thank

yous " and " welcome backs " as a waste of time. These are pleasantries which

enrich our exchanges and truly set " civilian " support and educational groups

apart from corporations, from insurance companies, and from scientific research

alone; we are compiled of a diverse group of individuals facing the same very

real challenge of exposure. People come to this group with a breadth of

concerns, and some of those posed to the group may not be yours to confront

right now. Indeed, for some of us no longer able to work and join the " world at

large, " this site offers a very real opportunity to connect and visit an amazing

library of wisdom/expertise not available in the journals. Science does not

keep up with the mouth-to-mouth passing of knowledge and advice. What I seek

here is the voice of people who share the trenches. If a topic doesn't apply to

me, I skim it, hoping to avoid a mistake or implement a tool. I thank those of

you who have shown nothing but patience to me and others new to this adversary.

I regret reading the tone and disrespect contained in recent posts and ask

merely for more information.

If I'm asking questions that are not allowed, if I'm entering arenas that don't

belong on this site, tell me. I'm sick and in need of information; I'm not

seeking to undermine your goals or act as a " plant " of some kind. I seek

advice, not disruption of the group's methods and norms. As I see it, we're all

passengers on a journey for which we didn't buy a ticket. What of the

itinerary, the events we can expect along the way? We don't know, for sure, as

it seems that as diverse as we are, so to are our reactions to

chemicals/allergens/toxins.

I thank Dr. Thrasher and Dr. Shoemaker for their patience as we grapple and

learn. I owe my life, I believe, to Dr. Thrasher's patient willingness to

answer a question I'm sure he hears more often than not and what he couldn't

have known was the level of despair held within that plea for the name of a

doctor who had expertise and knowledge. Before he gave me the name of Dr. Hope

in Santa Barbara, I had spent needless hours undergoing procedures that hurt me

more than helped and treatment that furthered damaged my immune system and

inflammations. Had Dr. Thrasher responded as some have proposed, if he been

inpatient or unwilling to answer yet one more question about a doctor, I don't

know if I would be alive today. I had already experienced heart failure; I live

with lung scarring and environmental asthma that reaches life-threatening

levels; my immune system was totally in disarray. Having been a competitive

athlete for over four decades, I knew it wasn't neglect about my physical health

that prompted my various symptoms. Once able to run five miles without breaking

much of a sweat, I now struggle sometimes to make it to the bathroom. (Too much

info? Sorry. Hee.) I know many of you can relate and suffer this same same

extreme shift in quality of life. I know that had Dr. Thrasher chosen to

respond by saying, " Look in the archives " or " Read the older threads, " I may

have been the victim of a medical system that doesn't treat those with exposure

appropriately. Please know that I respect and like my previous medical doctors;

they did what they've been trained to do with my symptoms. I just wasn't seeing

the right specialist, and needed Dr. Thrasher, who took the time to direct me.

How much time is a life worth? I remain indebted to him for his kindness and

referral and to Dr. Janette Hope for providing compassion blended with amazing

expertise. This group holds vital levels of knowing, contained within each

story and experience. This exchange of anectdotal information, these

narratives, drive what will be the medical topic of the next generation, I do

believe. Let's recommit to the shared vision, rather than focus on conflict and

disagreement, eh?

Thought I'd share a quote I came across the other day from Mother :

" If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each

other. "

What a lovely thought and mission--to recognize on a very deep level that if

even one of our brothers or sisters suffers, so do we all. Conversely, as one

of us celebrates, so too can we all find hope and inspiration. If you can't be

patient and find yourself frustrated by questions or comments, please at least

be kind and realize that each signature on this list represents a human being.

Disrespectful comments and sarcasm never help and can cut through the psyche

like a blade.

Good thoughts to my those of you on this journey,

sally

buildings , " KC " <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote:

>

> Dear friends of Sickbuildings. I have heard a lot of discussion regarding the

interaction between Sharon Kramer and ACHEMMIC. While I respect both sides in

what appears to be an impasse, I have known Sharon and worked with her for many

years. I will continue to do so.

>

> I am aware of that rumors are flying about Sharon and her being a lighting rod

for lawsuits. Nonsense.

>

> I also have heard that the absence of the letters to UC on the ACHEMMIC

website is undermining Sharon's credibility. More nonsense. The letters were

written with extensive editing from many in ACHEMMIC and sent without worry of

lawsuits or argument. The letters speak for themselves.

>

> The concern about who needs to do what about letters that are already part of

the public record is exaggerated.

>

> The support that Sharon has from those like me who have treated thousands of

mold illness patients is not wavering. We are continuing to push the research

basis for the illness. Our new treatment protocols merge with efforts of

Sharon's group and ACHEMMIC to help the entire mold community.

>

> People like KC and I have been working in our own ways for years to bring

credibility to this public health problem. Sharon has stuck her neck out for all

of us. We continue to work together.

>

> I do not speak for Sharon or ACHEMMIC. I only speak for myself. Let us focus

on our goal to win these battles of science and public relations.

>

> It is time to recognize that internal strife only helps the other side.

>

> Sharon's activity is not a threat to others. Her credibility is not diminished

by what letters may or not be on some website.

> Ritchie C. Shoemaker MD

> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon!

I applaud your courage and have seen firsthand the fear of retribution that

drives  the silence that allows victims/survivors to continue to face this

alone.  Sadly, this human reaction to protect oneself is a very real one, but

there are, thankfully, courageous souls like you willing to fight the good

fight.  Consider me aligned with you in fighting arrogant, dismissive

systems. 

However, I'm new to this and am not familiar with the history of this particular

case.  I like to know of which I speak, you know?  I live in California.  Can

you direct me to the origins of this legal battle?  I'm sorry if this is a

" repeat " question, but I really want to help you in any way I can.

Good thoughts,

sally

________________________________

From: " snk1955@... " <snk1955@...>

Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 6:27:22 AM

Subject: Re: [] Dear friends of Sickbuildings From Ritchie C.

Shoemaker MD

 

Ritchie and Jack,

We have been fighting this fight together for a long time. I sincerely

appreciate this posting that no one is going to get sued for getting too

close to me as I continue to peel back the layers of the rotten onion of deceit

over this issue. Unfounded fear of retribution causes some to remain

silent or even attempt to distance themselves from those who will speak out. It

doesn't help and plays into the defense's hands. Since when is that the

United States of America that people can't speak out of a known wrong and

their peers help to encourage this?

Now that I have firm commitment that no one is going to run for unfounded

fear and pull support for those UC letters that were voted on to send by

majority vote, I am going to put them to good use to help tell the story of

how the ACOEM mold statement and the Chamber mold statement, that both carry

the name University of California, are being used to set false health

policy that no one is seriously ill from mold.; thereby shifting the tax burden

off of insurers for these illnesses and onto the taxpayer of America.

Thanks, you guys!

Sharon

In a message dated 8/27/2010 4:17:04 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

toxicologist1@... writes:

Ritchie: Thank for the post. I am of the same opinion as you.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

_toxicologist1@..._ (mailto:toxicologist1@...)

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

_sandracrawley@..._ (mailto:sandracrawley@...)

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

Sharon Noonan Kramer

[Guest guest]

Sally,

Thank you. I want make something clear here. This issue is multifaceted.

We deal with moving the buildings science forward, the health science

forward and stopping the deceit that is used to sell doubt that the buildings

are causing severe illness - for the sake of saving insurers and others

from their true financial responsibility for these illnesses.

Taken all together, it is a BEAR of an issue because it potentially impacts

anyone who ever spends time in a building or has a financial interest in a

building. Add to this, the health science also impacts and is impacted

by biotechnology, pharmaceuticals and crop production.

So different people work on different areas of this issue. Sometimes

wires get crossed or motivations are different. But that doesn't mean anyone

is operating from a position of dishonorable intent or a desire to

adversely impact anyone else's work. Taken together, we are all working

toward

the same goal: Stop illness from occurring. Get help for those who are ill.

We have recently experienced a big wire cross in this issue. I consider

it over and done. I think everyone else does, too. I and others who work

in the area of stopping the deceit, now have the commitment we need from

others to do what we need to do.

I am sincerely hoping that ACHEMMIC will be able to do what they need to

do, which is help to bring more fine papers to fruition like the recent POA

paper on CIRS-WDB that they helped to cause. I intend to fully support

them in these efforts anyway that I can.

So I want to make it clear, this is not an either or proposition. There

are no two sides among advocates in this issue. No one has to choose, one

way or the other. We should all work together to advance the science AND

stop the deceit. I am pretty sure we are all on the same page of that now.

We just had a wire cross that needed to be uncrossed. That's it. Done.

Over. Back to business to lick this issue all the way around by working

all the aspects we can!

Sharon

>>

In a message dated 8/28/2010 5:18:54 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mustangsally2254@... writes:

Sharon!

I applaud your courage and have seen firsthand the fear of retribution

that

drives the silence that allows victims/survivors to continue to face this

alone. Sadly, this human reaction to protect oneself is a very real one,

but

there are, thankfully, courageous souls like you willing to fight the good

fight. Consider me aligned with you in fighting arrogant, dismissive

systems.

However, I'm new to this and am not familiar with the history of this

particular

case. I like to know of which I speak, you know? I live in California.

Can

you direct me to the origins of this legal battle? I'm sorry if this is a

" repeat " question, but I really want to help you in any way I can.

Good thoughts,

sally

[Guest guest]

Sally: You are wise and describe what happens to people who have developed CIRS

from WDB. I have saying that we should all remember:

The role of the government and its agencies is to keep the people ignorant. The

government does not give the people what they want and need, but rather gives

the people what the government wants them to know and have. This philosophy also

extends into the industrial sectors where the truth is hidden in deceit using

such terms as Junk Science to vilify those who diagnose and treat people injured

by toxic exposure. Worker's Compensation throughout the united States is a

classic example of this deceit.

Jack-Dwayne: Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist/Immunotoxicologist/Fetaltoxicologist

www.drthrasher.org

toxicologist1@...

Off: 916-745-4703

Cell: 575-937-1150

L. Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

sandracrawley@...

916-745-4703 - Off

775-309-3994 - Cell

This message and any attachments forwarded with it is to be considered

privileged and confidential. The forwarding or redistribution of this message

(and any attachments) without my prior written consent is strictly prohibited

and may violate privacy laws. Once the intended purpose of this message has been

served, please destroy the original message contents. If you have received this

message in error, please reply immediately to advise the sender of the

miscommunication and then delete the message and any copies you have printed.

Thank you in advance for your compliance.

[Guest guest]

I love your response, sally. I'm also so sorry to hear of what you've been

through. <hugs>

On Aug 27, 2010, at 11:57 PM, " californiamustangsally "

<mustangsally2254@...> wrote:

Dr. Shoemaker and Dr. Thrasher:

As a relative newcomer to this group, I have recently come to view this site as

a haven, a place where support, expertise, reviews, and information flow freely

and generously. In bed for the past few days and visually unable to read/process

information, I

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, this is soooo true!! I only wish more people understood this!

--- In , " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

wrote:

>we should all remember:

>

> The role of the government and its agencies is to keep the people ignorant.

The government does not give the people what they want and need, but rather

gives the people what the government wants them to know and have. This

philosophy also extends into the industrial sectors where the truth is hidden in

deceit using such terms as Junk Science to vilify those who diagnose and treat

people injured by toxic exposure. Worker's Compensation throughout the united

States is a classic example of this deceit.

>

>

[Guest guest]

For the very reason that Dr Thrasher mentions below,I am thrilled that Dr

Shoemaker has added his words to this discussion. The resolution

that was displayed within the posts can only strengthen the hearts of the

members. Thank-you for honoring the cause and binding us together even stronger.

Kathi

>

> The role of the government and its agencies is to keep the people ignorant.

The government does not give the people what they want and need, but rather

gives the people what the government wants them to know and have. This

philosophy also extends into the industrial sectors where the truth is hidden in

deceit using such terms as Junk Science to vilify those who diagnose and treat

people injured by toxic exposure. Worker's Compensation throughout the united

States is a classic example of this deceit.

>