Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas and wha...

[Guest guest]

I take issue with your analogy........

In the case of the car accident, it would be a more proper analogy that you

didn't have a cell phone because you couldn't afford one. Is that your

fault? Are you to blame if you are unable to call 911 because you are not

able to afford a cell phone?

If someone sets your house on fire, you run because you are able to run and

you know even though you will lose everything, there is insurance money to

replace what you lost. No one would stay in a burning house unless they

were unable to run.

And who in the world would keep beating their head against a wall? A

better analogy would be that you are getting beat up all the time and no one

will help you. You ask and ask but your pleas go unanswered.

It's not so simple when you have absolutely no $$. Have you tried living

on GA of $200 a month? Where would you live on that? It's so easy for

others to judge who have not walked a mile in your shoes.

When you have a roof over your head and there is no where else to

go......do you stay or take your children and go live under a bridge?

Wait.....there's probably mold under that bridge too.

Again, everyone is doing the best they can given the state of their health

and their finances. We get enough judgment from those who don't

understand, why do we need to come here and be judged again?

Jean

[Guest guest]

But Sharon, what you are saying illustrates my point exactly. Sometimes

people need help. Your sister was very lucky to have the 3 of you to rescue

her. Sometimes people need to be rescued because the situation they are

in is too overwhelming or has made them too sick or has taken so much of

their $$ that there is nothing left to do what is necessary. I don't know too

many people who have a family that will step in to help. Most often even

families think those with chemical sensitivities and/or mold issues are

crazy. And of course, you never help a crazy person.

Jean

" The marriage became so sick it literally was a threat to her health and

safety. But still, she did not leave. We, my other three sisters and I,

had to physicially go to the city she lived in and physically remove her

from

the marriage. Today she is remarried to a very nice man. They have a

great life together.

Sometimes things happen that cause people to not do what they must -

because it is too hard. But if a marriage is killing you or a house is

killing

you, why would you stay? At the end of the day, what have you won if your

life is miserable from staying? "

[Guest guest]

Got a big smile on my face now after a much-needed laugh...over the

following>

" When you have a roof over your head and there is no where else to

go......do you stay or take your children and go live under a bridge?

Wait.....there's probably mold under that bridge too. "

THANK YOU ! :-)

>

> I take issue with your analogy........

>

> In the case of the car accident, it would be a more proper analogy that you

> didn't have a cell phone because you couldn't afford one. Is that your

> fault? Are you to blame if you are unable to call 911 because you are not

> able to afford a cell phone?

>

> If someone sets your house on fire, you run because you are able to run and

> you know even though you will lose everything, there is insurance money to

> replace what you lost. No one would stay in a burning house unless they

> were unable to run.

>

> And who in the world would keep beating their head against a wall? A

> better analogy would be that you are getting beat up all the time and no one

> will help you. You ask and ask but your pleas go unanswered.

>

> It's not so simple when you have absolutely no $$. Have you tried living

> on GA of $200 a month? Where would you live on that? It's so easy for

> others to judge who have not walked a mile in your shoes.

>

> When you have a roof over your head and there is no where else to

> go......do you stay or take your children and go live under a bridge?

> Wait.....there's probably mold under that bridge too.

>

> Again, everyone is doing the best they can given the state of their health

> and their finances. We get enough judgment from those who don't

> understand, why do we need to come here and be judged again?

>

> Jean

>

[Guest guest]

Are we talking on going water and moisture issues and damaged materials not

removed or a house that was remediated, all damaged and wet materials removed,

HVAC and coils cleaned, etc and the air quality is good?

We just had the NEW home inspected thatwe ahve the opportuity to move into until

the owner has to sell it (my father who built the house to sell). The house has

over 1000 per cu meter mold spores in it because the windows have been open

while finishing construction and air not run. The out door air has fuscarium at

low levels.. this is super toxic. So is this a safe house and really where are

the safe houses?

My parents tested their house after a moisture issue that presented with 18,000

spores per cu meter (air) of P/A... this is crazy.. remediated and now less then

200. They put in a home filter system and reworked duct work. Did not change out

furniture or clothes.. so is their house safer or the new one they have waiting

for me?

The elephant in the room of my comparison is that upon this reinspection, 7

spores per cu meter of stachy were found. So was stachy not cultured from

original inspection of damaged materials and this is left over or did this just

walk in from outside.. water damage is gone except some moisutre in LR ceiling

from a recent branch falling and damagin roof.. just a few weeks ago.. they dont

see any mold ther..

Point being if the stachy is left over spores form original water damage (the

inspector ran a fan to kick up dust).. then how damaging and also if from the

recent branch and the stachy can grow that fast, then when does it end? At what

point do you just keep your house as clean as you can?

I can see a mold infested building, home.. where the moisture is everywhere and

so is the mold, where drywall has been subject to constant permeation.

I dont know anymore. Not after these reports.

If still not addressed, definitely get out. If addressed and some residual.. Im

not sure there is a house that does not contain mold spores that have to be

controlled.

Where to draw the line.

Robin

[Guest guest]

Some people may have very moldy situations and if we could all could see or know

all about, we would all agree, moving was right; others might have light

infestations but they are more sensitive and remediating is reasonable since

most places will have *some* mold, not have perfect indoor air. We just can't

decide one thing for all, but I do think everyone would be in agreement over

substantial infestations. Its just that what is substantial or believed to be

alot by one person might not be considered substantial to others. All cases

have to be considered as individual situations, including the sensitivity and

options of the individuals involved. I was very sick in a building that everyone

looked pretty healthy in, and felt better when I went home, to place I had had

previously had problems in but repaired. Place ins't perfect for me though as it

is old and has had problems but many places for me are much worse. I've had

indoor air people here that can't find anything. One person trying to sell me

hepa system, set up a particle counter to go 24 hours and then it registered

nothing..I have cleaned up house so well. He said he couldn't believe it. It

registered nothing at all. A heating/air conditioning mainenance guy looked

into the coil box of my air and said " you don't see that very often " , because it

was perfectly clean. I don't feel sick here anymore but my health is not

perfect and I think I could probably find a better place but would take alot of

looking to find a better place. For me, just moving out would not help. My

health was weakened by a number of thing that included *moisture damage but was

also medicine that suppressed my immune system and insomnia which I had prior to

house 'moisture damage' to house. After fixing everything a leak developed in

mudroom roof area, fixed and then pipe above kitchen sink, now fixed. I could

have just moved into new house and that happened. Its matter of *degree. How

much damage? Is it reasonable to assume can be fixed and safe. People can't run

every time something springs a leak. On the other hand if leak was ignored for

very long time and damage is substantial, that's totally different, so not one

rule for everyone, for every place. Just can't make broad statements like that,

except if it is about *you, you know you personally cannot take *any exposure.

This is my experience. Personally, I'm afraid to move, after what I have seen

by just looking around and experience of trying other places.

>

> Are we talking on going water and moisture issues and damaged materials not

removed or a house that was remediated, all damaged and wet materials removed,

HVAC and coils cleaned, etc and the air quality is good?

>

>

[Guest guest]

It is my understanding that stachy is one that should not be in a home.  It is

also my understanding that if found airborne then the  amount in reality is

much

greater since stacky is not an airborne mold but a sticky mold.  Whe my home

had

airborne stacky in a room after inspection of one room I was told to seal it. 

Move nothing from that room. 

Building experts please jump in here  .........................

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: listspub <listspub@...>

Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 9:37:04 PM

Subject: [] Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas and

wha...

 

Are we talking on going water and moisture issues and damaged materials not

removed or a house that was remediated, all damaged and wet materials removed,

HVAC and coils cleaned, etc and the air quality is good?

We just had the NEW home inspected thatwe ahve the opportuity to move into until

the owner has to sell it (my father who built the house to sell). The house has

over 1000 per cu meter mold spores in it because the windows have been open

while finishing construction and air not run. The out door air has fuscarium at

low levels.. this is super toxic. So is this a safe house and really where are

the safe houses?

My parents tested their house after a moisture issue that presented with 18,000

spores per cu meter (air) of P/A... this is crazy.. remediated and now less then

200. They put in a home filter system and reworked duct work. Did not change out

furniture or clothes.. so is their house safer or the new one they have waiting

for me?

The elephant in the room of my comparison is that upon this reinspection, 7

spores per cu meter of stachy were found. So was stachy not cultured from

original inspection of damaged materials and this is left over or did this just

walk in from outside.. water damage is gone except some moisutre in LR ceiling

from a recent branch falling and damagin roof.. just a few weeks ago.. they dont

see any mold ther..

Point being if the stachy is left over spores form original water damage (the

inspector ran a fan to kick up dust).. then how damaging and also if from the

recent branch and the stachy can grow that fast, then when does it end? At what

point do you just keep your house as clean as you can?

I can see a mold infested building, home.. where the moisture is everywhere and

so is the mold, where drywall has been subject to constant permeation.

I dont know anymore. Not after these reports.

If still not addressed, definitely get out. If addressed and some residual.. Im

not sure there is a house that does not contain mold spores that have to be

controlled.

Where to draw the line.

Robin

[Guest guest]

I realize you are responding to Sharon's analogies and previously

disagreed with my statement on " deserving. " I think you are

pointing out another part that needs more clarity.

Let's forget blame and responsibility for a moment.

I think the issue should be one of doing the best we can with what

we have, what we know, and what we can afford.

If you cannot leave a bad house - and I've had clients in that

situation - then what can be done to make it more tolerable? Not

perfect. Not fixed. Not reaction free. But as best can be done

under the circumstances.

One of you posted about plywood house siding that was rotting

and had mold. That obviously needs fixing. But if you cannot for

any reason what can you do to make the inside of the house

better? And hopefully prevent further damage to the outside. That

should be the focus. Clearly state the conditions of the house.

Clearly state what you can or cannot do. Then get on as best you

can.

If a person has the knowledge and the means to leave or fix but

they don't, yet continue to blame others for their bad situation

then don't they deserve, in a way, their fate?

If a person has the knowledge but not the means to leave or fix

then they don't deserve blame or consequences.

My clients with the best success are the ones who can humbly

say and emotionally accept the fact that their best isn't good

enough but they will keep fighting to have as good a life as

possible with where they are. They are the warriors!

I think we have a lot to learn from those with cancer or in

wheelchairs. How do they accept what they cannot change yet

live a life worth living and support others in learning that also.

I think we on this group too often get lost in the bad - and there's

plenty of bad to go around! - by supporting the suffering rather

than empathizing. By inadvertantly encouraging us to focus on

how bad our life it while forgetting that we ought to also support

the healing and the living and the small successes. Sometimes

still being alive is the only success we may have.

A better way of saying this is in a quote by Remen:

" Healing is evoking the will to live in another person, not by doing

something, but by receiving another person, letting them know

that their suffering and fear matters. "

I wish I had said something like that in my first response. Thank

you, for speaking out.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

I take issue with your analogy........

In the case of the car accident, it would be a more proper analogy that

you

didn't have a cell phone because you couldn't afford one. Is that your

fault? Are you to blame if you are unable to call 911 because you are not

able to afford a cell phone?

If someone sets your house on fire, you run because you are able to run

and

you know even though you will lose everything, there is insurance money

to

replace what you lost. No one would stay in a burning house unless they

were unable to run.

And who in the world would keep beating their head against a wall? A

better analogy would be that you are getting beat up all the time and no

one

will help you. You ask and ask but your pleas go unanswered.

It's not so simple when you have absolutely no $$. Have you tried living

on GA of $200 a month? Where would you live on that? It's so easy for

others to judge who have not walked a mile in your shoes.

When you have a roof over your head and there is no where else to

go......do you stay or take your children and go live under a bridge?

Wait.....there's probably mold under that bridge too.

Again, everyone is doing the best they can given the state of their health

and their finances. We get enough judgment from those who don't

understand, why do we need to come here and be judged again?

Jean

----------

The following section of this message contains a file attachment

prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.

If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,

you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.

If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

---- File information -----------

File: DEFAULT.BMP

Date: 16 Jun 2009, 0:10

Size: 358 bytes.

Type: Unknown

[Guest guest]

Robin,

You are listening to all the information closely and learning to

differentiate. And learning to ask better questions. It's a difficult

topic and not easily mastered.

It is important to understand that there is always mold

everywhere. If mold testing does not find mold then something

was wrong with the sampling or the analysis.

Merely finding mold, especially in the air, does not mean there is

a mold problem. Finding Stachy does not necessarily mean there

is a mold problem because there are occasional spores without

water damaged buildings.

Mold spores in a sample are not the same as mold gardens or

mold jungles in your house.

In your situation the 7 spores per cubic meter is based on

collecting 1 spore. The calculation of how much air was collected

so the results can be expressed per a cubic meter means the 1

spore was multiplied by 7. Maybe that 1 spore is the only spore in

the 10,000 cubic meters of air in your house. If true, then the 7 is

misleading.

The sample doesn't give that answer. It would take approximately

15-20 simultaneous samples collected 4-5 times throughout the

day to get even a rough idea of how much mold is really in your

house. And that would be just for the air. It wouldn't include

surfaces and inside walls.

Mold testing can NEVER be relied on by itself.

The key is the water damage part. As you state below, it may be

a one time occurance or mulitple ones. A big long lasting flood or

a small spill drying quickly.

This is but one reason among many why none of us should ever,

ever, NEVER make decisions based only on mold samples. The

samples must be interpreted within the context of the situation.

And that situation includes the person, you, who is living in that

situation.

Finally, and again, not all reactions are caused by mold. Rather

than assume mold always and risk spending your life savings on

the wrong problem only to discover after it is too late, a more

considered approach must be utilized. One which is accurate for

YOU.

As we strive to remove doubt and confusion to relieve the stress

we must be careful not to replace it with what will make our life

worse.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

Are we talking on going water and moisture issues and damaged

materials not removed or a house that was remediated, all damaged and

wet materials removed, HVAC and coils cleaned, etc and the air quality is

good?

We just had the NEW home inspected thatwe ahve the opportuity to

move into until the owner has to sell it (my father who built the house to

sell). The house has over 1000 per cu meter mold spores in it because the

windows have been open while finishing construction and air not run.

The out door air has fuscarium at low levels.. this is super toxic. So is this

a safe house and really where are the safe houses?

My parents tested their house after a moisture issue that presented with

18,000 spores per cu meter (air) of P/A... this is crazy.. remediated and

now less then 200. They put in a home filter system and reworked duct

work. Did not change out furniture or clothes.. so is their house safer or

the new one they have waiting for me?

The elephant in the room of my comparison is that upon this

reinspection, 7 spores per cu meter of stachy were found. So was stachy

not cultured from original inspection of damaged materials and this is

left over or did this just walk in from outside.. water damage is gone

except some moisutre in LR ceiling from a recent branch falling and

damagin roof.. just a few weeks ago.. they dont see any mold ther..

Point being if the stachy is left over spores form original water damage

(the inspector ran a fan to kick up dust).. then how damaging and also if

from the recent branch and the stachy can grow that fast, then when

does it end? At what point do you just keep your house as clean as you

can?

I can see a mold infested building, home.. where the moisture is

everywhere and so is the mold, where drywall has been subject to

constant permeation.

I dont know anymore. Not after these reports.

If still not addressed, definitely get out. If addressed and some residual..

Im not sure there is a house that does not contain mold spores that have

to be controlled.

Where to draw the line.

Robin

----------

The following section of this message contains a file attachment

prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.

If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,

you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.

If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

---- File information -----------

File: DEFAULT.BMP

Date: 16 Jun 2009, 0:10

Size: 358 bytes.

Type: Unknown

[Guest guest]

Thank you Carl for clarifying that.  In my own case I knew I had permanent

water

intrusion in multiple areas. So the whole picture was revealed.

 

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: Carl E. Grimes <grimes@...>

Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 3:54:37 AM

Subject: Re: [] Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas

and wha...

 

Robin,

You are listening to all the information closely and learning to

differentiate. And learning to ask better questions. It's a difficult

topic and not easily mastered.

It is important to understand that there is always mold

everywhere. If mold testing does not find mold then something

was wrong with the sampling or the analysis.

Merely finding mold

[Guest guest]

I think we need to quit focusing on one type of mold.

I had stachy in my first home,other molds there too.

I also found some at my second home in remote area where it seemed that the high

moisture content had alowed other molds to be more prevelent inside. I dont

agree that stachy doesnot become more airborne,

it dries and fragments and I know for a fact that while it's in the dring mode

you dont want to get to close to it because it is putting something into the air

that you dont want to breath.

I think we need to remember that just because stachy has been consentrated on

more as a mold attached to WDB does not mean it the sole mold that can hurt you

or the only thing we need to worry about.

we can not measure the tottal toxic load of everything envolved in a WDB. or

tottal toxic dose. we are not exposed to one thing in a WDB.

to consentrate on one factor out of many is not going to help anyone.

I think useing terms like tottal toxic load might help people to quit

consentrating on just one thing like mold or a certain type of mold.

and I will tell you right now that when I later went back into my first home

with a railroad issued mask on that mask didn't help,

anyway, it had just rained a hard rain, the reaction I got from the third florr

was tottally different than anything I felt on the first floor,and the second

floor was a little worse, the reaction on the third floor was pretty severe and

was alot like the reactions from the second home, this has to do with moisture

content voc's,mvoc,other toxins that are airborn in high moisture

situations vs. breathing dry fragmented toxic dust.

and I dont know where this Idea of stachy being so sticky has come from, stachy

can have a slime covering it but sometimes that slime doesn't stay there long. I

seen large patches of stachy growing on the sofits along my roof ledge and when

I went out there to get a picture what appeared as slime looking marks went down

the wall and the stachy was not covered in slime and there was nothing sticky

looking about it , it was actually beautiful in away with it's black,gray and

green colors, dumby me, I had to get a closier look,

and when I got within about three feet of it

I could fell whatever was comeing off of it affecting me and I had to crawl of

the porch roof. it was in the process of drying, later it disappeared from view

only to show itself again with another rain.

so what was visable on the outside had to dry out and fragment and blow away

into the air. there was no traces left behind except a gray discoloration to the

white sideing, but I knew it was still there, waiting for more rain.

the dust in this home was getting black but there was no stickiness to it. it

was my second home with high moisture and high amounts of other molds and no

boubt alot of voc's mvoc's involved that left a hard to remove film on

everything. the stachy growth there may have very well been chocked out by other

mold prevelent molds, but I did a tape lift shortly after a rain where it was

found growing on the bricks on the outside of the house, so I'm sure there was

some there somewhere.

a count of stachy in this first home was 200 in the basement and it's reasonable

to understand that the way this victorian home was build with no insulation and

the wetting drying action from roof leaks allowed dry particles to filter

throughout the walls in into the lower floors and to the basement, this affected

me alot, and in winter with steam heat things were blowing up from the basement,

this affected me more, just like windy days affected me more because it was

causeing more dried particles from inside the walls to blow into me liveing

space.

now if you think about, stachy, while slim is covering it may not be that big of

a issue, seems that slime would prevent much from becoming airborn, but stachy

in a constant high moisture situation might not have as much of a chance to grow

as other molds can overtake the area. so than in that type of situation what

role stachy might even play is questionable, to me anyway.

>

> It is my understanding that stachy is one that should not be in a home.  It

is

> also my understanding that if found airborne then the  amount in reality is

much

> greater since stacky is not an airborne mold but a sticky mold.  Whe my home

had

> airborne stacky in a room after inspection of one room I was told to seal

it. 

> Move nothing from that room. 

>

>

> Building experts please jump in here  .........................

>  

>

> God Bless !!

> dragonflymcs

> Mayleen

>

[Guest guest]

This is definitely a complicated issue and one that is often debated by experts.

I prefer to see no Stachy in clearance samples. However, I do know of a few

cases in which low concentrations of Stachybotrys (7 spores per cubic meter of

air is very low) existed in post remediation samples, but were only be transient

spores that might have been released from folds or crevicers in the containment

barrier. If all else appears to be good (containment effective, air filtration

devices used, no visible mold, no musty odors, no spores) and the visual

evaluation and history does not indicate a likelihood of hidden growth), I would

not consider the presence of a few spores of Stachy to be alarming. However, if

remediation efforts appeared to be sub-standard, I would definitely consider the

Stachy a sign that additional investigation was necessary.

Even though Stachy is perceived to be the most dreaded mold, species of

Aspergillus and Penicillium can also be very problematic, as can bacteria and

other microorganisms associated with water damagte. I recommend that both

culturable and spore trap air samples be collected after remediation. Sampling

should only be performed after remediation containment and equipment is verified

and the visual inspection passes.

Air samples are a snapshot in time and are prone to false negatives. ERMI dust

samples might also be indicated if the history of remediation and/or water

damage is questionable.

Please email if I can be of further assistance.

Connie Morbach, M.S., CHMM, CIE

Sanit-Air, Inc.

connie@...

cleanlinest.com

>

> It is my understanding that stachy is one that should not be in a home.  It

is

> also my understanding that if found airborne then the  amount in reality is

much

> greater since stacky is not an airborne mold but a sticky mold.  Whe my home

had

> airborne stacky in a room after inspection of one room I was told to seal

it. 

> Move nothing from that room. 

>

>

> Building experts please jump in here  .........................

>  

>

> God Bless !!

> dragonflymcs

> Mayleen

[Guest guest]

Thank you for responding.  It is good to know these things.  There was Stachy

in

room then stachy in air samples.  I had those too in addition to Clad, Mem,

Chaet, and some others.

 

The samples were post water damage.  No remediation was done.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: Connie <connie@...>

Sent: Sun, August 29, 2010 11:18:35 PM

Subject: [] Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas and

wha...

 

This is definitely a complicated issue and one that is often debated by experts.

I prefer to see no Stachy in clearance samples. However

[Guest guest]

Complicated.... Whew, that word.... Ya, VERY complicated.

________________________________

From: dragonflymcs <dragonflymcs@...>

Sent: Sun, August 29, 2010 10:49:11 PM

Subject: Re: [] Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas

and wha...

 

Thank you for responding.  It is good to know these things.  There was Stachy

in

room then stachy in air samples.  I had those too in addition to Clad, Mem,

Chaet, and some others.

 

The samples were post water damage.  No remediation was done.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Connie. That may be the case where we had post remdiation samples

immediately after remediation of 7 spores per cu meter in LR. We scrubbed the

air again after that.

We also have now found low levels of stachy in mbr carpet coming out of bathroom

where stachy was, so that could and hopefully just be cross contamination that

did not go too far. This was found at a follow up 4 months later.

My parents have " rare " levels of stachy in return duct and also 7 spores per cu

meter in air 6 mnths after remediation where there may have been no

containment.. this one has me concerned...

it is complicated..

robin

>

> This is definitely a complicated issue and one that is often debated by

experts. I prefer to see no Stachy in clearance samples. However, I do know of

a few cases in which low concentrations of Stachybotrys (7 spores per cubic

meter of air is very low) existed in post remediation samples, but were only be

transient spores that might have been released from folds or crevicers in the

containment barrier. If all else appears to be good (containment effective, air

filtration devices used, no visible mold, no musty odors, no spores) and the

visual evaluation and history does not indicate a likelihood of hidden growth),

I would not consider the presence of a few spores of Stachy to be alarming.

However, if remediation efforts appeared to be sub-standard, I would definitely

consider the Stachy a sign that additional investigation was necessary.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin,

The pervasive presence of target organisms, such as Stachy, even in low

concentrations is of concern. It does appear that fungal sources or

cross-contamiantion agents remain. This is a common problem, especially with

insurance jobs. Since water damage, but not mold, is generally covered, the

issue of spores in areas that were not directly impacted by water is not covered

by most home insurance. I generally assume that cross-contamination occurred

and include cleaning of the structure and air ducts in my remediation scope. If

this is not possible, I collect settled dust samples to assess

cross-contamination.

If target molds are still present in several samples, this could be of concern,

especially to some individuals, as the " receptor " , which is the exposed

person(s) changes with exposures. This ultimately equates to reactions to low

concentrations of mold, toxins, and bacteria.

It sound like air samples collected in your parents' home warrant an

investigation by a qualified consultant. If you can provide more history, I

might be able to suggest some investigative strategies.

Connie Morbach, M.S., CHMM, CIE

Sanit-Air, Inc.

cleanlinest.com

>

> Thank you, Connie. That may be the case where we had post remdiation samples

immediately after remediation of 7 spores per cu meter in LR. We scrubbed the

air again after that.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not to mention the Penn, Asper, where also present in my envrionment.  I would

say I had a toxic soup since they were also sporing.  Do you think my home was

toxic ??

 

  

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: <unitedstatesvet@...>

Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 12:06:56 AM

Subject: Re: [] Re: Self-defeating actions [WAS: What can off gas

and wha...

 

Complicated.... Whew, that word.... Ya, VERY complicated.

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Connie. If you can respond to the list, how do you clean the air

ducts? We should have had a post remediation clean up and more thorough post

remediation testing but didnt know better.

My husband now has this task.. he will be sorting, storing, trashing, taking up

carpet.. we are going to do an ERMI test first to get a picture but I am

realizing these are not going to give a complete pic.

Scrubbers were brought back in when the spores were found in LR, but I know that

will not take care of settled spores and we have no idea how much got out.

We are gathering papers of all work done so far. Its no fun dealing with two WDB

at one time, two sick families.

Robin

>

> Hi Robin,

> The pervasive presence of target organisms, such as Stachy, even in low

concentrations is of concern.

[Guest guest]

The airducts should be cleaned by a qualified airduct cleaning company. A good

resource to find a contractor is the National Air Duct Cleaners Association

(nadca.com). A few questions to ask:

What type of equipment - truck mounted vacuums are generally the best

Do they have appropriate state licenses?

How do they do the work - they should describe a push-pull technology. A large

vacuum hose from the truck is hooked up to the main trunk, and air is

systematically pushed through the ducts with compresed air, and is ultimately

captured by the vacuum. Both the return and supply ducts must be cleaned.

How do they prevent cross-contamination? They should use non-residue tape to

cover vents and registers. Since there was a prior mold problem, HEPA-filtered

air scrubbers should be used, and contents should be protected.

The blower and coils should also be cleaned. A special license is often

required for this. Sanitizers are generally not necessary. However, if used,

the MSDS should be reviewed with your physician, and the product MUST be EPA

registered for use in the airducts (usually Oxine).

Most states require applicators to have a pesticide license.

The exposed horizontal surfaces throughout the home should be HEPA-vacuumed

after duct cleaning.

Make sure truck is not parked near open doors or windows. Most trucks are

diesel and emit noxious fumes. Many good duct cleaners have extension hoses to

attach to the exhaust pipe.

Make sure the truck is in good condition and will not leak oil on your driveway.

Find out what is expected of you before duct cleaning (moving furniture away

from vents, covering items, etc.

I recommend that you not be home during the cleaning.

Bad duct cleaning is worse than no duct cleaning.

Good luck

Connie Morbach, M.S., Chmm, CIE

cleanlinest.com

> >

> > Hi Robin,

> > The pervasive presence of target organisms, such as Stachy, even in low

concentrations is of concern.

>