Re: CIRS-WDB

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/28/2010 7:15:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

jeaninem660@... writes:

was the PDF of that posted, thinking so, maybe some of the newbees haven't

read it.

Here it is:

_http://www.policyholdersofamerica.org/doc/CIRS_PEER_REVIEWED_PAPER.pdf_

(http://www.policyholdersofamerica.org/doc/CIRS_PEER_REVIEWED_PAPER.pdf)

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jeanine, from a " newbie. "   You're so thoughtful, and I appreciate

you! 

(And all of the other members who have demonstrated a willingness to go above

and beyond--you're all suffering, too, and take time to support us.  Thanks...)

sally

________________________________

From: " snk1955@... " <snk1955@...>

Sent: Sat, August 28, 2010 7:18:37 PM

Subject: Re: [] CIRS-WDB

 

In a message dated 8/28/2010 7:15:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

jeaninem660@... writes:

was the PDF of that posted, thinking so, maybe some of the newbees haven't

read it.

Here it is:

_http://www.policyholdersofamerica.org/doc/CIRS_PEER_REVIEWED_PAPER.pdf_

(http://www.policyholdersofamerica.org/doc/CIRS_PEER_REVIEWED_PAPER.pdf)

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally.

I think I can answer your concerns. Chronic Inflammatory Response

Syndrome is not a new condition. It is a designated ICD 9 illness. When it is

caused by a water damaged building, it still falls under the same code. The

CIRS-WDB just helps to substantiate what has caused the chronic

inflammation. It doesn't take away from those who are made ill from

that are not water damaged, etc. Merely it helps to clarify a particular

cause of illness in a particular set of circumstances with a particular set of

relatively similar symptoms. This is not a new name for a new illness.

Just a clarifying of one cause of the illness recognized. Hope that helps.

Sharon

>>

In a message dated 8/30/2010 5:20:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mustangsally2254@... writes:

Hello, All...I just read a post that addressed a concern about changing

the name

of SBS or MCS to CIRS-WDB. I guess as long as this discussion is out

there,

I'll add my question. When I was first exposed and learned of the term

Sick

Building Syndrome,

[Guest guest]

Hello, All...I just read a post that addressed a concern about changing the

name

of SBS or MCS to CIRS-WDB.  I guess as long as this discussion is out there,

I'll add my question.  When I was first exposed and learned of the term Sick

Building Syndrome, I had been exposed in a building that was in the middle of

renovation and found myself and my employees suffering from fumes/toxins

released from the carpeting glue, dust, and formaldehyde/VOCs given off

from the

new furniture/building supplies/cabinets, etc.  I fear that using the specifier

Water Damaged Building with CIRS may exclude those folks who are suffering with

ailments caused/due to their workplace building/environment but not specifically

caused by mold/damage from water.  I understand the need to more specifically

target those suffering from mold exposure, but what of those who fall under

categories more fully embraced by Sick Building Syndrome?  Just a thought, as

not all workers injured at the workplace have been exposed to mold or

water-created toxins.  Any other thoughts about this?  I hesitate to ask, as

it

seems that the majority applaud this new direction.  Perhaps there is an

understanding that folks exposed to VOCs and other toxins will be addressed

through a different code??  Just wonderin'...thanks, sally

________________________________

From: osisposis <jeaninem660@...>

Sent: Sat, August 28, 2010 7:08:40 PM

Subject: [] CIRS-WDB

 

was the PDF of that posted, thinking so, maybe some of the newbees haven't read

it.

[Guest guest]

I think the WDB designation is to illustrate that these CIRS illnesses have

a strong microbial component in the elements that are the causes of

illness. In other words, fungal and bacterial as opposed to manmade chemicals

are the primary causative agents. The treatments are different when these

are the primary causes.

In a message dated 8/30/2010 8:35:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mustangsally2254@... writes:

Thanks, Sharon. I am familiar with the ICD 9 code. I don't have an issue

with

the building specifier. I just thought that if the goal is to employ a

code

already in existence, that the sub-title or code specifier might be more

generic

in order to encompass and better diagnose all environmental causes for the

illness. I was thinking about a sub-heading or specifier such as

CIRS-Environmental Cause. This would envelop all of those suffering with

these

symptoms that are caused by toxins and which create such suffering. Just

a

thought...not a judgment or criticism.

Thanks for clarifying though. I appreciate it.

Good thoughts,

sally

_

[Guest guest]

CIRS is a term that means chronci inflammatory response syndrome. CIRS develops

in people with a variety of toxic exposures. CIRS is the name of the illness,

not Sick Building Syndrome. No one has suggested changing names of illnesses.

You musts recognize that CIRS is a result of toxic exposure(s). Most likely the

building that caused your illness also had microbail growth. I will lay odds

that such growth was not looked for via the HVAC system as well as wall

cavities. Also, I mentioned in a previous response that I have several peer

reviewed papers on the subject of brain inflammation and exposure to xenobiotics

(toxins). Therefore, although you may have been in sick building, you most

likely have CIRS

Jack Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist, Immunotoxicologist, Fetal toxicologist

Cell - 575-937-1150 Cell-Thrasher

Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

Cell -775-309-3994

www.drthrasher.org

>>>

From: mustangsally2254@...

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 14:45:50 -0700

Subject: Re: [] CIRS-WDB

Hello, All...I just read a post that addressed a concern about changing the name

of SBS or MCS to CIRS-WDB.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your response, Jack.  You are probably correct, in that the building

was not new when the renovations began and I may have been exposed to mold that

wasn't as evident as were the other toxins.  I was re-exposed to mold and now

suffer from a variety of symptoms.  My question didn't focus upon the label

of CIRS, as it seems appropriate for the disorder.  My only concern was the

specifier/sub-title of Water-Damaged Building.   I embrace your work

surrounding

the extremely adverse impact upon the brain/central nervous system.

So, if one is being treated for exposure and presents with all of these

multi-system symptoms, including neurological/mood/cognitive issues, AND has

fungal infections AND tests positive on the VCS, should that person then carry

the diagnosis of brain inflammation?  Just curious, as it seems that the

documentation that I have lists a variety of codes that describe my symptoms

rather than assigning one code to cover everything.  I have total faith in my

doctor, but I was wondering if the documentation should instead use one code

rather that codes that indicate tachycardia, shortness of breath,

memory/confusion, etc.  Should just one code be used that more accurately

depicts the central, driving illness?  Again, I totally support your research

and have absolutely no issue with the findings.  In fact, what is happening

with

my instability of mood, mental confusion, attention deficit, irritation, mania

have created much more despair than the bodily issues I experience.  The work

I

do requires a well-functioning, stable mind/brain.   I was joking with my

doctor

that I wondered if and when I am well enough to work again, there can be

an accommodation under the guidelines of ADA to account for/dismiss problems

that could stem from  " inappropriate, angry responses to boss " or " erratic mood "

when symptoms flare. 

When I was in practice, I had the pleasure of treating numerous clients with

frontal lobe injuries or other brain injuries that had dramatically altered

their personalities and created so many adjustment issues for both the client

AND his/her family.  I now totally understand the difficulty of being able to

measure one's responses and of stopping the perseveration that comes when what

was once a minor irritant now becomes a HUGE issue.  It is a difficult symptom

and far more difficult for loved ones, colleagues, and family to understand than

any of the physical ones.  For example, in a week, on one day, I could be

myself

in terms of brain functioning/mood.  On the very next day, without any external

triggers that I'm aware of, I am anxious, irritable, and manic.  I am getting

to

the point that I don't answer my phone on the days my symptoms are at their

worst, as I fear I may say something that I would never ordinarily say,

something that could be out of character for me and hurtful to the other

person.  It's as if, again with similarities to frontal lobe injuries, I have

no

impulse control/filter that stops me from reacting in ways that are not typical

for my personality. 

I did ask my doctor if there had been research into several seeming

similarities

of the symptoms I'm having and to those that present in brain injury or bipolar

disorder.  It just seems that many symptoms I saw in these clients are the

ones

I am struggling to manage--without much success, I hate to say.   I've taught

cognitive-behavioral management techniques for years, and there are times that I

lack the self-awareness even to employ these thought/behavior modification

approaches.  It's tough!  It seems that these symptoms did not rear their

ugly

heads until near the end of my repeat exposures over three years.  Prior to

that, my symptoms were more centralized in my lungs and bronchial tubes.  Since

seeing my wonderful doctor, I am now being treated for three fungal infections

in my nasal area and am using the anti-fungal nasal sprays. I am also on a

detox

regimen that I follow religiously.  The spray seemed to help the symptoms I

felt

within my nose, but I am struggling with the mood/cognitive symptoms.  I worry

that these symptoms may ultimately be the largest challenge to my ability to

return to the work I love.

In summary--sorry for the long note--I don't in any way question the impact of

exposure on the brain.  It creates more fear than any of my other more

bodily-focused symptoms. I agree, by the way, with your reluctance to use the

term MCS.  Many n the scientific and medical arenas challenge its very

existence, and even more practitioners who accept that it exists regard it as a

psychological disorder, almost a subtype of somatoform disorder.  (Note:  I

don't question its existence, as I have a plethora of chemical sensitivities--I

just wouldn't call them " sensitivities, " as they are far more severe than

that.  Please, other group members, who suffer with symptoms of MCS, don't

think

I question the severity of these symptoms.  I live with them, as well.  I

just

think we could find a diagnosis that doesn't already carry so much resistance

in

the medical/psychological arenas.  In this, I support Jack's position, which

serves us overall. 

Thanks for your wisdom and expertise.  We are lucky you visit and respond!!

Sally

________________________________

From: " Jack Thrasher, Ph.D. " <toxicologist1@...>

Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 5:46:52 PM

Subject: RE: [] CIRS-WDB

 

CIRS is a term that means chronci inflammatory response syndrome. CIRS develops

in people with a variety of toxic exposures. CIRS is the name of the

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Sharon.  I am familiar with the ICD 9 code.  I don't have an issue

with

the building specifier.  I just thought that if the goal is to employ a code

already in existence, that the sub-title or code specifier might be more

generic

in order to encompass and better diagnose all environmental causes for the

illness.  I was thinking about a sub-heading or specifier such as

CIRS-Environmental Cause.  This would envelop all of those suffering with these

symptoms that are caused by toxins and which create such suffering.  Just a

thought...not a judgment or criticism.  

Thanks for clarifying though.  I appreciate it.

Good thoughts,

sally 

________________________________

From: " snk1955@... " <snk1955@...>

Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 5:41:32 PM

Subject: Re: [] CIRS-WDB

 

Hi Sally.

I think I can answer your concerns. Chronic Inflammatory Response

Syndrome is not a new condition. It is a designated ICD 9 illness. When it is

caused by a water damaged building, it still falls under the same code. The

CIRS-WDB just helps to substantiate what has caused the chronic

inflammation. It doesn't take away from those who are made ill from

that are not water damaged, etc. Merely it helps to clarify a particular

cause of illness in a particular set of circumstances with a particular set of

relatively similar symptoms. This is not a new name for a new illness.

Just a clarifying of one cause of the illness recognized. Hope that helps.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

I do not get into the diagnosistic codes. I am a toxicologist and call a spade

a spade. Brain inflammation and CIRS are one and the same. What you have to

realize that the brain contains macrophages (microglia) and the peripheral

innate immune system also contains macriphages. The both intiate and maintain

the inflammation by various mechanisms, e.g. recrutiment of neutrophils. The

unfortunate part is the two systems, although described separately, interact and

feed back to each ohters. Thus, as an example, people with autoimmune disroders

also have signs of brain inflammation. May be not as severe as toxic exposure,

buth nonetheless, inflammation.

Jack Thrasher, Ph.D.

Toxicologist, Immunotoxicologist, Fetal toxicologist

Cell - 575-937-1150 Cell-Thrasher

Crawley, M.ED., LADC

Trauma Specialist

Cell -775-309-3994

www.drthrasher.org

>>>

From: mustangsally2254@...

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:25:24 -0700

Subject: Re: [] CIRS-WDB

Thanks for your response, Jack. You are probably correct, in that the building

was not new when the renovations began and I may have been exposed to mold that

wasn't as evident as were the other toxins. I was re-exposed to mold and now

suffer from a variety of symptoms. My question didn't focus upon the label

of CIRS, as it seems appropriate for the disorder.

[Guest guest]

For instance if one got this from gas, pesticide spraying or other such assualt

(not in a building) on the body that they too could be covered by the term . 

It

that what you are asking?   My chemical intolerances are such that I cannot

recieve mail. It severely impairs my breathing. Even a blood pressure cuff is

irritating to my skin.  Fragrances and other subtances give me anaphalaxis

symptoms. Mail does too, paper from offices, list goes on.  

 

I just had an ANA and had welts then respiratiry propblems from the electrodes

(patches) they used. My veins collapse from IV plastic needle.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

________________________________

From: sallyb <mustangsally2254@...>

Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 11:31:43 PM

Subject: Re: [] CIRS-WDB

 

Thanks, Sharon.  I am familiar with the ICD 9 code.  I don't have an issue

with

the building specifier.  I just thought that if the goal is to employ a code

already in existence, that the sub-title or code specifier might be more

generic

in order to encompass and better diagnose all environmental causes for the

illness.  I was thinking about a sub-heading or specifier such as

CIRS-Environmental Cause.  This would envelop all of those suffering with these

symptoms that are caused by toxins and which create such suffering.  Just a

thought...not a judgment or criticism.  

Thanks for clarifying though.  I appreciate it.

Good thoughts,

sally 

[Guest guest]

I live in South Carolina and am looking for a physician who is familiar with

exposure to toxins and the symptoms that it causes. I have done a basic web

search and have had no success.

Any suggestion where to start ??.

Thanking you in advance,

Gaye Tyler

www.aikenphotography.net

Gaye V Tyler

Aiken Photography

14 Roslyn Circle

Aiken SC 29803

803-649-9400

[Guest guest]

Mayleen:

When I read of your severe limitations, I feel grateful to be able to have the

freedom I have to read books and receive mail.  We all are tested by this,

aren't we?  Yes, that is my concern about using the term, " Water Damaged

Building " as a diagnostic category.  I was thinking that " Environmental Origin "

or something like that would cover more people, not just those who have been

exposed to a wet building or to the neurotoxins released by mold.  The first

time I read of the proposal, my reaction was, " , finally, it will be

recognized as a disease in and of itself. "    Then, I started thinking about

folks who have become disabled due to other environmental causes, such as

pesticides, VOCs, formaldehyde, and so on.  I wish you well, friend.  Good

thoughts, sally

________________________________

From: dragonflymcs <dragonflymcs@...>

Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 9:43:07 PM

Subject: Re: [] CIRS-WDB

 

For instance if one got this from gas, pesticide spraying or other such assualt

(not in a building) on the body that they too could be covered by the term . 

It

that what you are asking?   My chemical intolerances are such that I cannot

recieve mail. It severely impairs my breathing. Even a blood pressure cuff is

irritating to my skin.  Fragrances and other subtances give me anaphalaxis

symptoms. Mail does too, paper from offices, list goes on.  

 

I just had an ANA and had welts then respiratiry propblems from the electrodes

(patches) they used. My veins collapse from IV plastic needle.

God Bless !!

dragonflymcs

Mayleen

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the clarification, folks.  I guess in my innate and professional

trait to ensure inclusion of all, I was thinking of alternative specifiers which

would cover not only mold-driven illness/inflammation but also cover a range of

other neurotoxin-caused immune responses.   So, I hate to appear naive or

ignorant, is the detoxification process/treatment totally different for folks

exposed to pesticides, VOCs, formaldehyde?  Again, my questions come out of a

real curiosity, not confrontation or attack on using the diagnostic code for

CIRS, just limiting it to inflammation caused by water damage only.  Seems

limited to me.  Dr. Thrasher, your comments make me wish that I had a better

understanding of these interactions.  I have a working knowledge of the central

nervous system/brain from studying physiology as it applies to psychology but

really want a better working knowledge.  I want to read your work, but I'm

wondering if you could recommend a " primer, " so I can better understand the

processes to which you refer.  I'm afraid I might not fully grasp your work

without this foundational information.  Good thoughts, sally 

________________________________

From: " snk1955@... " <snk1955@...>

Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 8:52:09 PM

Subject: Re: [] CIRS-WDB

 

I think the WDB designation is to illustrate that these CIRS illnesses have

a strong microbial component in the elements that are the causes of

illness. In other words, fungal and bacterial as opposed to manmade chemicals

are the primary causative agents. The treatments are different when these

are the primary causes.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sally,

I have problems with computers too, it was really bad when this one was new. 

Now 4 years later it is better but not perfect. 

My first thought too was the same as yours.  I want to relay the info but I do

not know how in layman terms express how they too can get treated for this if

not caused by buildings or if maybe they are not covered by term they I cannot

convery the message.

I too wish you the Best !! 

Mayleen

________________________________

From: sallyb <mustangsally2254@...>

Sent: Tue, August 31, 2010 1:07:55 PM

Subject: Re: [] CIRS-WDB

 

Mayleen:

When I read of your severe limitations, I feel grateful to be able to have the

freedom I have to read books and receive mail

[Guest guest]

Sally: I have several papers listed on my web site by author and title on this

subject. Look under Brain Function and Inflammation. The papers are available

for free via entrez pubmed.

Re: [] CIRS-WDB

Thanks for the clarification, folks. I guess in my innate and professional

trait to ensure inclusion of all, I was thinking of alternative specifiers

which

would cover not only mold-driven illness/inflammation but also cover a range

of

other neurotoxin-caused immune responses. So, I hate to appear naive or

ignorant, is the detoxification process/treatment totally different for folks

exposed to pesticides, VOCs, formaldehyde? Again, my questions come out of a

real curiosity, not confrontation or attack on using the diagnostic code for

CIRS, just limiting it to inflammation caused by water damage only. Seems

limited to me. Dr. Thrasher, your comments make me wish that I had a better

understanding of these interactions. I have a working knowledge of the

central

nervous system/brain from studying physiology as it applies to psychology but

really want a better working knowledge. I want to read your work, but I'm

wondering if you could recommend a " primer, " so I can better understand the

processes to which you refer. I'm afraid I might not fully grasp your work

without this foundational information. Good thoughts, sally

[Guest guest]

The closest physician to you would be Ritchie Shoemaker, M.D. in land. You

can find him by a google search. I suggest you call his office and ask for a

referral in your area.

Re: [] CIRS-WDB

I live in South Carolina and am looking for a physician who is familiar with

exposure to toxins and the symptoms that it causes. I have done a basic web

search and have had no success.

Any suggestion where to start ??.

Thanking you in advance,

Gaye Tyler

www.aikenphotography.net

Gaye V Tyler

Aiken Photography

14 Roslyn Circle

Aiken SC 29803

803-649-9400

[Guest guest]

What's your website?

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Re: [] CIRS-WDB

Sally: I have several papers listed on my web site by author and title on this

subject. Look under Brain Function and Inflammation. The papers are available

for free via entrez pubmed.

[Guest guest]

www.drthrasher.org

I have attached a paper that I co-authored on autistic spectrum disorders, mold

and children.

I am awaiting the appearance of some papers on autism and pesticides in the San

Joaquin Valley, CA. One of the papers is to appear in the current issue of

Environmental Health Perspectives.

Re: [] CIRS-WDB

What's your website?

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, no one is trialling LDN for anything! Only us the patients are boldly going where no pharma will go!! There are a few people here from Oz that use LDN and I`m sure they`ll let you have some info.Bev

low dose naltrexone From: candalah@...Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:54:28 +1100Subject: [low dose naltrexone] CIRS-WDB

hi, Just wondering if anyone here is trialling LDN for autoimmune dysfunction caused by mold illness. I have about 5 autoimmune conditions that im aware of, caused by mold. Anyone had any success in this for mold illness? -----Sent from mBox Mail on my iPadhttp://www.fluentfactory.com/mboxmail