Re: scared and confused / mycos outdoors

February 11, 2010

, why would mycotoxins outdoors be much worse in the winter? I feel much

better in the wintertime outside. It's summertime here and fall that are bad

outside with the humidity and heat. Dr Rae said fall is the worst time of year

for mold. He says the mold builds up all summer and then when the weather cools

off, the humidity goes up and mold loves it. Admittedly he didn't say mycos but

why would mycos be the worst during winter? To me, that makes no sense. Rain

storms would certainly clear the air of debris and snow storms too, as well as

bury whatever is on the ground until it thaws. Where do you come up with this

idea?

> Outdoor toxic mold actually is much worse in the winter, especially from

November to February. Snowstorms and rainstorms tend to be especially bad.

>

February 11, 2010

>

> , why would mycotoxins outdoors be much worse in the winter? I feel much

better in the wintertime outside. It's summertime here and fall that are bad

outside with the humidity and heat. Dr Rae said fall is the worst time of year

for mold. He says the mold builds up all summer and then when the weather cools

off, the humidity goes up and mold loves it. Admittedly he didn't say mycos but

why would mycos be the worst during winter?

This would be a really great question to discuss on this board, to see what

folks here have experienced.

A variety of people's observations certainly would be great to hear. And that

would especially be the case if we knew where people live, since factors like

humidity might make a difference.

Most people seem to agree that mold illness and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome get

particularly bad in the fall. Rainfall is likely one reason.

I would like to propose that for whatever reason, outdoor toxic mold tends to be

particularly bad on days with " worse weather " (e.g. cloudy/dark/stormy vs.

sunny).

Do folks here tend to think that's the case, in their experience?

If so, then the short days and cloudy/stormy skies of winter in most places

could be responsible for the effect that some people feel during that time.

On the other hand, it seems reasonable to think that outdoor toxic mold might be

particularly bad in the summer in some locales, such as those with high humidity

(e.g. Texas, where Dr. Rea is located).

Is there anyone here whose symptoms get better on days when it's raining or

snowing? If so, it would be interesting to know where they live.

With so many variables going on, I shouldn't make any categorical statements

about this topic. Unfortunately, nothing about mold and mold illness is simple!

Would anyone else care to share their experiences?

Best,

February 12, 2010

I asked the same question as the original person posting, and here is my take on

it after many months of digging around for answers and personal efforts using

trial and error.

The symptoms could be also related to radiation due to wireless technology. Try

searching on antennasearch.com to see if there are cell towers close to home.

Also consider the effect of wifi from neighbors, and portable phones. Some areas

with granite bedrock also are naturally radioactive. The effects from these

technologies/geologys can increase when leaves are off trees, during rain, and

possibly during snow. Also barometric pressure is a factor, which comes into

play during storms. Molds get stressed (and therefore release mycotoxins more

intensely) in areas with high electromagnetic radiation. There may be an overlap

between our stress and theirs, so I suspect that there is a correlation between

toxic mold and electromagnetic pollution. See emfrefuge group for more

documentation in the files section. Good luck. Why couldn't our sensitivities

to mold be a reflection of a broader definition of environmental stress and

therefore multidimensional in nature?

Best wishes in your search for relief.

Kate

>

> > Outdoor toxic mold actually is much worse in the winter, especially from

November to February. Snowstorms and rainstorms tend to be especially bad.

> >

>

February 12, 2010

I agree with you 100% Barb. I would get sick every Fall in NH, always. Summer

was great for me and when Fall came, all health problems started up again like

clock work. D

>

> > Outdoor toxic mold actually is much worse in the winter, especially from

November to February. Snowstorms and rainstorms tend to be especially bad.

> >

>

February 12, 2010

>

> I agree with you 100% Barb. I would get sick every Fall in NH, always. Summer

was great for me and when Fall came, all health problems started up again like

clock work. D

Here's an article by a leading CFS practitioner, Bell.

http://www.pediatricnetwork.org/lyndonvillenews/jean/novemberfactor.htm

(Of course, the CFS doctors have no idea that mold hyperreactivity plays a role

in that disease. Any ideas on how to convince them?)

Best,

February 12, 2010

I think EMF is more of a problem during dry weather.

water and electricity dont mix.

molds release their mycotoxins when drying, not while growing.

I'm not to convienced that they do at any other time, it's the wet dry thing.

stachy is a slime mold, no spores or myco's put off while it's slimed, which may

not be for long. slime runs down hill, bugs eat slime,ect. when you see a large

path of black-green mold with evidence of slime " hasbeen " dont get to close, it

may be pretty, but it's in the process of drying and well shoot condida right in

your face, and whatever is attached to that condida.

it seems to me that any myco's that might be airborn during wet weather would be

quickly brought to the ground.

I noticed awhile back that when people mow their lawns and I was in around it or

even driving past it that it just wiped me out.

one day I was at my daughters and her husband desided to mow, the grass was

still fairly wet from a rain. I knew from experience I'd have to hide out

indoors and still it would get to me, but what I found out is that because it

was still damp, nothing was getting kicked up back into the air and I did not

suffer. I'm supposedly allergic to cut grass, wrong! it's what settles to the

ground and gets stirred up when mowing that I'm reactive too. now if you

consider the dry toxic filth that lands out of the air, you could see the

reason. why would I test possitive for cut grass allergy? because theres going

to be those things in the serum. why do people test possitive to other seemingly

unrelated things after a mold exposure? like roaches,mites,certain trees,ect.? I

believe it's because they live,eat,harbor mold. what is a allergy? well it can

be a allergen, pathogen or toxic substance. maybe, it's more important about how

the body precieves it and deals with it then the name put on it.

apoptosis vs. necrosis. what the body precieves as danger.

what messes up the ability of the body precieving danger? toxins.

to me toxins are anything that poisons your body or causes you body to poison

itself. some toxins are very sneaky, have evolved ways to

get in and do their damage without the body reconizeing them.

these would be the most dangerous toxins of all.

one thing I dont thing people reconize is what all can attach to a mold spore

and or be inhaled with these WDB exposures, what ever mold is growing on, eating

on is offgassed, you move into a moldy home thats been remodeled to hide the

mold problem and your going to get a good dose of off gassing of these chemicals

right along with the mold.

I fell pretty strongly that myco's do not cause a chemical sensitivity reaction

like most other chemicals do.

I also fell that many people do not and cannot reconize what is causeing a

chemical sensitivity reaction unless they can put a smell to it. do myco's even

have a smell? well, maybe, my victorian home took on a earthy dirt,burning the

sences smell after mant years of stachy growth, yet the 3rd floor where the

problem was worse smelled somewhat different. I know that smell and I know what

it does to me

and a immediate chemical sensitivity reaction is not what it does.

I also know that this smell (which depends on consentration of + inclosure type

setting, but in large amounts like in a porch roof partly protected from high

winds but still airborn with mild wind/breezes)is not something you are going to

come across in this consentration in the outside air without a main sorce,big or

small but a sorce, like a garbage bin, moldy hay field,ect. and I'm betting most

homes do have mold and mycotoxins. it's all about the dose.

now theres a reason why I only have a chemical sensitivity reaction to mold

around sorces of wet mold growth (VOC'S) and not dry mold growth which can be

much more dangerous>dry airborn particles>mycotoxins.

>

> I asked the same question as the original person posting, and here is my take

on it after many months of digging around for answers and personal efforts using

trial and error.

>

> The symptoms could be also related to radiation due to wireless technology.

Try searching on antennasearch.com to see if there are cell towers close to

home. Also consider the effect of wifi from neighbors, and portable phones.

Some areas with granite bedrock also are naturally radioactive. The effects

from these technologies/geologys can increase when leaves are off trees, during

rain, and possibly during snow. Also barometric pressure is a factor, which

comes into play during storms. Molds get stressed (and therefore release

mycotoxins more intensely) in areas with high electromagnetic radiation. There

may be an overlap between our stress and theirs, so I suspect that there is a

correlation between toxic mold and electromagnetic pollution. See emfrefuge

group for more documentation in the files section. Good luck. Why

couldn't our sensitivities to mold be a reflection of a broader definition of

environmental stress and therefore multidimensional in nature?

>

> Best wishes in your search for relief.

>

> Kate

February 12, 2010

In this article they ask for any ideas people have. They say a resurgence in

spring also...another extra damp time of year.

>

> Here's an article by a leading CFS practitioner, Bell.

>

> http://www.pediatricnetwork.org/lyndonvillenews/jean/novemberfactor.htm

>

> (Of course, the CFS doctors have no idea that mold hyperreactivity plays a

role in that disease. Any ideas on how to convince them?)

>

> Best,

>

February 12, 2010

I can see drying releasing all kinds of particles, including mycos, so that

wouldn't be winter either since in winter humidity (outside) is usually very

high. Inside it's dry due to heating the inside but outside usually quite

humid. I see no reason why mycos would be high in the wintertime outside. They

could be high inside anytime of year depending on type of problem you have and

how season affects the inside of house but not outside.

>

> I think EMF is more of a problem during dry weather.

> water and electricity dont mix.

> molds release their mycotoxins when drying, not while growing.

> I'm not to convienced that they do at any other time, it's the wet dry thing.

stachy is a slime mold, no spores or myco's put off while it's slimed, which may

not be for long. slime runs down hill, bugs eat slime,ect. when you see a large

path of black-green mold with evidence of slime " hasbeen " dont get to close, it

may be pretty, but it's in the process of drying and well shoot condida right in

your face, and whatever is attached to that condida.

>

February 12, 2010

it also points to the time of year that heat is turned on.

heat-dryness-inside-winters, heat-dryness-outside-summers

late spring-early summer,drying. in the rain forests slime molds release spores

when drying.

> >

> > Here's an article by a leading CFS practitioner, Bell.

> >

> > http://www.pediatricnetwork.org/lyndonvillenews/jean/novemberfactor.htm

> >

> > (Of course, the CFS doctors have no idea that mold hyperreactivity plays a

role in that disease. Any ideas on how to convince them?)

> >

> > Best,

> >

>

February 12, 2010

>

> In this article they ask for any ideas people have. They say a resurgence in

spring also...another extra damp time of year.

This has been a really interesting discussion so far.

It sounds like maybe we're all reporting that the same factors result in worse

symptoms for us.....and that what's varying is the extent to which these factors

are present in a particular place at different times of the year.

As a first cut at summarizing:

1) Humidity seems like it may result in worse problems. In some places (e.g.

Texas), humidity is really bad in summer. In other places (e.g. Death Valley),

it's higher in winter.

2) Rainy/snowy/cloudy weather seems to result in worse problems. But a really

heavy rainstorm or snowstorm could temporarily wash the spores out of the air.

3) Sunshine seems like it may have some beneficial effect in itself.

4) Depending on where the mold is growing, snow on the ground could have a

beneficial effect in keeping it out of the air. (For instance, I have an

increasing belief that fire retardants---which cause water to stick to trees

rather than running off---lead to toxic mold growth up in the trees. Ground snow

would not solve this problem. But in upstate NY, where Dr. Bell practices, such

chemicals likely are not used as much as they are in--say--ski areas in the dry

western states, and so ground snow during the winter might help.)

(As a kid in Indiana, living unknowingly in a moldy house, one of the times that

I felt really good was sitting in a car in the summer when it was pouring rain

outside. Then the sun would come out and everything would feel clean. So I

agree that super-heavy storm could have a beneficial effect, in my experience.)

Some of us have been trying to get Dr. Bell to accept the idea that mold is an

integral part of CFS for quite a while. For some reason, all these CFS doctors

(who think the illness is just caused by viruses) have been a tough sell!

Does this seem to be a good description of the seasonal phenomenon? What other

factors seem to be important?

Thanks....

February 12, 2010

thats what I'm saying, thats why I fell better outside in the winter and inside

in the summer. but summers are just bad for me both inside and outside. but

better inside inless it's raining and than I like going out while it's raining

and getting the clean air and moisture while it lasts. winter has it's problems

outside like getting around traffic, woodstove smoke, ect. but if you get

somewhere where those things aren't the everyday day, being outside in the

winter makes me fell better. being cool also makes me fell better, I cant take

the heat either. not freezing to where the nerves get aggervated but cool.

and when I get that pain acroos the back of my neck that I know is heading for a

major migrane or a frontal migrane, I've found, because I don't always have the

pain killers I need, that if I catch it quickly and apply a cold towel to the

area it takes the heat out that goes along with it and it stops whatever it is

thats causeing it.

>

> I can see drying releasing all kinds of particles, including mycos, so that

wouldn't be winter either since in winter humidity (outside) is usually very

high. Inside it's dry due to heating the inside but outside usually quite

humid. I see no reason why mycos would be high in the wintertime outside. They

could be high inside anytime of year depending on type of problem you have and

how season affects the inside of house but not outside.

>

February 12, 2010

mold spores and many other airborn particles get in the tree bark.

it doesn't take a really heavy rain or snow to clean the air, but a few drops

wont do it either.

when the sun comes out and things start drying, things become airborn again, and

it starts pretty quick. evaporation of the rain/moisture, brings the particles

right back to airborn stage.

fronts before the storms can be full of particles, during rain it's gets knocked

to the ground, after rain and drying process accures, it becomes airborn again,

maybe not all but to some amount and new particles /pollution add to it. and the

air becomes bad again. long dry summers, bad. even crops suffer. crops may get

more of a mold problem with to much rain and more of a mycotoxin problem with to

little rain. crops suck their moisture up from the ground and in through the

leaves/stalks from dew in the mornings and himidity in the air.

>

> This has been a really interesting discussion so far.

>

> It sounds like maybe we're all reporting that the same factors result in worse

symptoms for us.....and that what's varying is the extent to which these factors

are present in a particular place at different times of the year.

>

> As a first cut at summarizing:

>

> 1) Humidity seems like it may result in worse problems. In some places (e.g.

Texas), humidity is really bad in summer. In other places (e.g. Death Valley),

it's higher in winter.

>

> 2) Rainy/snowy/cloudy weather seems to result in worse problems. But a

really heavy rainstorm or snowstorm could temporarily wash the spores out of the

air.

>

> 3) Sunshine seems like it may have some beneficial effect in itself.

>

> 4) Depending on where the mold is growing, snow on the ground could have a

beneficial effect in keeping it out of the air. (For instance, I have an

increasing belief that fire retardants---which cause water to stick to trees

rather than running off---lead to toxic mold growth up in the trees. Ground snow

would not solve this problem. But in upstate NY, where Dr. Bell practices, such

chemicals likely are not used as much as they are in--say--ski areas in the dry

western states, and so ground snow during the winter might help.)

>

> (As a kid in Indiana, living unknowingly in a moldy house, one of the times

that I felt really good was sitting in a car in the summer when it was pouring

rain outside. Then the sun would come out and everything would feel clean. So

I agree that super-heavy storm could have a beneficial effect, in my

experience.)

>

> Some of us have been trying to get Dr. Bell to accept the idea that mold is an

integral part of CFS for quite a while. For some reason, all these CFS doctors

(who think the illness is just caused by viruses) have been a tough sell!

>

> Does this seem to be a good description of the seasonal phenomenon? What

other factors seem to be important?

>

> Thanks....

>

February 12, 2010

In Death Valley, how cold does it get? In Death Valley, winters may be the

temperature and humidity of spring or fall elsewhere.

>

> This has been a really interesting discussion so far.

>

> It sounds like maybe we're all reporting that the same factors result in worse

symptoms for us.....and that what's varying is the extent to which these factors

are present in a particular place at different times of the year.

>

> As a first cut at summarizing:

>

> 1) Humidity seems like it may result in worse problems. In some places (e.g.

Texas), humidity is really bad in summer. In other places (e.g. Death Valley),

it's higher in winter.

>

February 12, 2010

>

> In Death Valley, how cold does it get? In Death Valley, winters may be the

temperature and humidity of spring or fall elsewhere.

About 60-65 during the day, 30 at night. Humidity 35-50%, most of the time.

February 12, 2010

Slaya,well, if you have CFS caused by a virus, thats whats it's from.

maybe thats why chronic fatique from exposure in a WDB is generally not

diagnosed as CFS. in my view chronic fatique as a result of not being able to

sleep well and or something affecting you during the day because of a chemical

and or toxin exposure voc's,mvoc's mycotoxins and other chemicals is largely

effected by brain responce, dopamine and seratonin responces/ metabolism

syndrome/sensory reception/tranportation disfunction. which can accure at very

small doses after you've be exposed in a WDB.

however,I still wouldn't put mycotoxins in the same class as these when it comes

to a immediate chemical sensitivity responce where it envolves the obvious

immeditate effects the what some may experience as called brain fog and others

may experience as a seizure type responce, or the reactive airway responce and

for some other severe bodily responces. these seem to come with higher doses.

now maybe a high dose of mycotoxins would cause this , hope I never find out. I

think thats probably a killer dose.

one thing that bothers me is the interswitching of useing the term mold in one

post and mycotoxins in the next, and I haven't even heard you mention voc's or

mvoc's. quite confuseing. you do know theres a difference, right? haveing a

reaction to mold growth and voc's and mvoc's and breating in some myco's can be

a seperate thing if you consider what might be be going on in a moist

environment vs. a dry envirnment. but in some cases you might get a dose of all

of it at the same time. like maybe with fluffing up a compost pile, or turning

on the heat /ac system after it's set for awhile and getting a blast from hell.

but it seems that as far as mold growth outdoors, you would be getting either a

damp mold growth exposure with some voc's involved or a drying mold spore

releaseing condida,mycotoxin exposure.

if your haveing some kind of reaction to mold outside that quickly ends when the

sun comes out, that would seem to be in the mold allergy or voc group, not

mycotoxins. if it's a chemical sensitivity reaction it must be voc's, if not it

must be a mold allergy, and yes, there could be some myco's attached to the

spores, there could also be some other chemicals attached to the spores, but I

dont think it would be enough to cause a immediate reactive chemical sensitivity

responce that is obvious with higher dose exposures. breathing mold outside

would have a considerable air/mold/voc mixture as apposed to rakeing up a

compost pile and inhaleing a hudge amount of toxic dust. lots of veritables

inbetween. like the longer between rains in the summer the worse the air gets

filled with airborn particles.

> >

> > In this article they ask for any ideas people have. They say a resurgence

in spring also...another extra damp time of year.

>

> This has been a really interesting discussion so far.

>

> It sounds like maybe we're all reporting that the same factors result in worse

symptoms for us.....and that what's varying is the extent to which these factors

are present in a particular place at different times of the year.

>

> As a first cut at summarizing:

>

> 1) Humidity seems like it may result in worse problems. In some places (e.g.

Texas), humidity is really bad in summer. In other places (e.g. Death Valley),

it's higher in winter.

>

> 2) Rainy/snowy/cloudy weather seems to result in worse problems. But a

really heavy rainstorm or snowstorm could temporarily wash the spores out of the

air.

>

> 3) Sunshine seems like it may have some beneficial effect in itself.

>

> 4) Depending on where the mold is growing, snow on the ground could have a

beneficial effect in keeping it out of the air. (For instance, I have an

increasing belief that fire retardants---which cause water to stick to trees

rather than running off---lead to toxic mold growth up in the trees. Ground snow

would not solve this problem. But in upstate NY, where Dr. Bell practices, such

chemicals likely are not used as much as they are in--say--ski areas in the dry

western states, and so ground snow during the winter might help.)

>

> (As a kid in Indiana, living unknowingly in a moldy house, one of the times

that I felt really good was sitting in a car in the summer when it was pouring

rain outside. Then the sun would come out and everything would feel clean. So

I agree that super-heavy storm could have a beneficial effect, in my

experience.)

>

> Some of us have been trying to get Dr. Bell to accept the idea that mold is an

integral part of CFS for quite a while. For some reason, all these CFS doctors

(who think the illness is just caused by viruses) have been a tough sell!

>

> Does this seem to be a good description of the seasonal phenomenon? What

other factors seem to be important?

>

> Thanks....

>

February 12, 2010

The humidity is pretty low so don't know why it would be bad air. That one

isn't obvious. Do you live near there?

> >

> > In Death Valley, how cold does it get? In Death Valley, winters may be the

temperature and humidity of spring or fall elsewhere.

>

> About 60-65 during the day, 30 at night. Humidity 35-50%, most of the time.

>

February 12, 2010

I know nothing about problem levels of mycos outdoors though. I used to follow

mold counts of spores in air here. I get daily email from county air quality

and lists many things including mold count. In winter they don't bother to even

count it. Before they stop counting, spore count goes down to several hundred

spores per meter of air. In late summer, early fall and into fall count goes up

to several thousand spores per meter of air. Dr Rae was talking about mold

spores also because that is where I found out count was available. I thought

mycos were only a problem when water damage house kept air inside and so mycos

built up inside house but outside they had r o o m to spread out and were pretty

dilute. Something outside must denature them over time as otherwise outdoors

would be uninhabitable with all the decaying going on all the time, constantly,

much more than inside. As you said the sun probably, maybe higher oxygen

content of air outside also. How do you do a myco count outside?

> >

> > In Death Valley, how cold does it get? In Death Valley, winters may be the

temperature and humidity of spring or fall elsewhere.

>

> About 60-65 during the day, 30 at night. Humidity 35-50%, most of the time.

>

February 12, 2010

>

> The humidity is pretty low so don't know why it would be bad air. That one

isn't obvious. Do you live near there?

Death Valley actually is about the best place in the U.S. with regard to outdoor

toxic mold. That's why I'm here, for the moment.

The phenomenon I mention about Death Valley being worse in the winter than the

summer seems to apply to a variety of mountain and desert locales. I've

observed it in NM, Arizona, Colorado and the Sierra Nevadas, for instance.

In my observation, while relatively pristine places (like Death Valley) tend to

get only a little worse in winter, less pristine places (like Las Cruces and Las

Vegas) tend to get a lot worse.

The other place that I'm familiar with is the Midwest, where (in my experience)

the entire season from mid October through April is comparatively bad. The

scattered really sunny days do feel a lot better than the cloudy ones though.

Whether, say, January vs. April in Chicago feels worse mold-wise might be

discussed. It could depend on the year. And someone with cold sensitivity

might be bothered more by the mold in January even if there's less of it than in

April.

But I'm surprised that there might be any controversy that the sunnier six

months of the year would be better in terms of mold, at least in the MW and

mountain/desert states.

I've previously never met a mold reactor who's suggested that October-April in

those states was better for him/her than May-September. Is there someone like

that on this list?

Best,

February 12, 2010

>

> I know nothing about problem levels of mycos outdoors though. I used to

follow mold counts of spores in air here. I get daily email from county air

quality and lists many things including mold count. In winter they don't bother

to even count it. Before they stop counting, spore count goes down to several

hundred spores per meter of air. In late summer, early fall and into fall count

goes up to several thousand spores per meter of air. Dr Rae was talking about

mold spores also because that is where I found out count was available. I

thought mycos were only a problem when water damage house kept air inside and so

mycos built up inside house but outside they had r o o m to spread out and were

pretty dilute. Something outside must denature them over time as otherwise

outdoors would be uninhabitable with all the decaying going on all the time,

constantly, much more than inside. As you said the sun probably, maybe higher

oxygen content of air outside also. How do you do a myco count outside?

Unfortunately, the outdoor air can be just as bad as a moderately bad building

for me.

I didn't realize that until I went out to the wilderness for a few weeks and got

really clear though. Before that, my body remained in its adapted state to the

exposures that I was getting in my usual environment.

After being (as Dr. Rea says in his books) de-adapted by getting away from the

mold toxins for a finite length of time, my body now goes into the " alarm " state

whenever it comes into contact with them. Whether they're in a building, on an

object or in the outside air is irrelevant. I get the same sort of systemic

responses.

These are reactions to the chemicals that the molds make (presumably satratoxins

or other trichotecenes since stachy seems to be my main irritant). I don't have

allergies to mold, just reactions to the toxins made by certain species of mold.

I used to think that the toxic mold that bothered me in the outside air was a

result of the stuff growing in buildings being recirculated outside.

More recently, I've come to believe that the contaminations can come from

outside, perhaps due to new strains of toxic mold that grow well there and use

other toxic chemicals present in the outdoors to their advantage.

Obviously that's an important development, if indeed it is what's occurring.

I can't imagine that anybody ever will be able to do a myco count outside.

The only real way to figure out what's going on, in my opinion, is for those of

us who are highly sensitized to the presence of this stuff to discuss it with

one another.

Fortunately, the presence of groups like this one allows us to do that.

Best,

February 12, 2010

I live in one of the moldiest areas in the country, the Ohio River valley. Mold

starts to develope as soon as spring rain comes and temperatures warm and it

keeps building all summer long and hits highs in late August, sept, october. I

don't have any trouble here in winter at all and don't know what you would base

idea that winter would be a problem on? Certainly not amount of mold, as I said

the mold count goes down to not worth counting in wintertime, then by the time

you pile some snow on the ground, where would the mold come from? This would be

even more so in Chicago where the snow is on the ground almost all winter long.

I used to live there for 12 years. In my experience in trying to find a place

also, air conditioning season indoors is much more problematic than heating

system so where does the problem come from in winter? I'm at a loss as to how

you have come up with this.

To my experience, the greatest thing about winter is it kills all the bugs so I

can be outside without getting bitten and the mold count goes down, pollen and

air bourne allergens are gone. It for all things, except getting around in a

car, its' the best time for allergy and mold sufferers. Air is crisp and clean.

My best friend thinks I should move to Alaska.

Las Vegas, etc might be less pristine because of all the air conditioners

running in all those big building polluting the air with other pollutants of big

cities.

>

Death Valley actually is about the best place in the U.S. with regard to

outdoor toxic mold. That's why I'm here, for the moment.

>

> The phenomenon I mention about Death Valley being worse in the winter than the

summer seems to apply to a variety of mountain and desert locales. I've

observed it in NM, Arizona, Colorado and the Sierra Nevadas, for instance.

>

> In my observation, while relatively pristine places (like Death Valley) tend

to get only a little worse in winter, less pristine places (like Las Cruces and

Las Vegas) tend to get a lot worse.

>

> The other place that I'm familiar with is the Midwest, where (in my

experience) the entire season from mid October through April is comparatively

bad. The scattered really sunny days do feel a lot better than the cloudy ones

though.

>

> Whether, say, January vs. April in Chicago feels worse mold-wise might be

discussed. It could depend on the year. And someone with cold sensitivity

might be bothered more by the mold in January even if there's less of it than in

April.

>

> But I'm surprised that there might be any controversy that the sunnier six

months of the year would be better in terms of mold, at least in the MW and

mountain/desert states.

>

> I've previously never met a mold reactor who's suggested that October-April in

those states was better for him/her than May-September. Is there someone like

that on this list?

>

> Best,

>

February 12, 2010

And your assessment of Vegas is based on what? how long were you there, where

were you etc?

Angel

[] Re: scared and confused / mycos outdoors

The phenomenon I mention about Death Valley being worse in the winter than the

summer seems to apply to a variety of mountain and desert locales. I've

observed it in NM, Arizona, Colorado and the Sierra Nevadas, for instance.

In my observation, while relatively pristine places (like Death Valley) tend to

get only a little worse in winter, less pristine places (like Las Cruces and Las

Vegas) tend to get a lot worse.

The other place that I'm familiar with is the Midwest, where (in my experience)

the entire season from mid October through April is comparatively bad. The

scattered really sunny days do feel a lot better than the cloudy ones though.

Whether, say, January vs. April in Chicago feels worse mold-wise might be

discussed. It could depend on the year. And someone with cold sensitivity

might be bothered more by the mold in January even if there's less of it than in

April.

But I'm surprised that there might be any controversy that the sunnier six

months of the year would be better in terms of mold, at least in the MW and

mountain/desert states.

I've previously never met a mold reactor who's suggested that October-April in

those states was better for him/her than May-September. Is there someone like

that on this list?

Best,

February 12, 2010

I really think you are reacting to other pollutants in the air. You become sick

from mold and you react to other pollutants too, which would explain seeking the

wilderness and reacting to busier city atmospheres. I think it is reasonable to

say that wilderness air is probably cleaner than city air in most ways, and that

would be healthier but this idea that it is all about mycos I don't see what you

are basing this on? Just a feeling you get. You could be reacting to almost

anything. I believe the feeling is 'real', and affecting your health but I

don't believe there is any reasonable basis to assume it is from mycos and

somehow there is this myco perfect place to find out there or to figure out.

Just get away from as many chemicals and pollutants should do it, if you don't

need a job.

>

> I didn't realize that until I went out to the wilderness for a few weeks and

got really clear though. Before that, my body remained in its adapted state to

the exposures that I was getting in my usual environment.

>

> After being (as Dr. Rea says in his books) de-adapted by getting away from the

mold toxins for a finite length of time, my body now goes into the " alarm " state

whenever it comes into contact with them. Whether they're in a building, on an

object or in the outside air is irrelevant. I get the same sort of systemic

responses.

>

> These are reactions to the chemicals that the molds make (presumably

satratoxins or other trichotecenes since stachy seems to be my main irritant).

I don't have allergies to mold, just reactions to the toxins made by certain

species of mold.

>

> I used to think that the toxic mold that bothered me in the outside air was a

result of the stuff growing in buildings being recirculated outside.

>

> More recently, I've come to believe that the contaminations can come from

outside, perhaps due to new strains of toxic mold that grow well there and use

other toxic chemicals present in the outdoors to their advantage.

>

> Obviously that's an important development, if indeed it is what's occurring.

>

> I can't imagine that anybody ever will be able to do a myco count outside.

>

> The only real way to figure out what's going on, in my opinion, is for those

of us who are highly sensitized to the presence of this stuff to discuss it with

one another.

>

> Fortunately, the presence of groups like this one allows us to do that.

>

> Best,

>

February 12, 2010

Slaya, what are your symptoms with " myco " exposures?

> >

> > I didn't realize that until I went out to the wilderness for a few weeks and

got really clear though. Before that, my body remained in its adapted state to

the exposures that I was getting in my usual environment.

> >

> > After being (as Dr. Rea says in his books) de-adapted by getting away from

the mold toxins for a finite length of time, my body now goes into the " alarm "

state whenever it comes into contact with them. Whether they're in a building,

on an object or in the outside air is irrelevant. I get the same sort of

systemic responses.

> >

> > These are reactions to the chemicals that the molds make (presumably

satratoxins or other trichotecenes since stachy seems to be my main irritant).

I don't have allergies to mold, just reactions to the toxins made by certain

species of mold.

> >

> > I used to think that the toxic mold that bothered me in the outside air was

a result of the stuff growing in buildings being recirculated outside.

> >

> > More recently, I've come to believe that the contaminations can come from

outside, perhaps due to new strains of toxic mold that grow well there and use

other toxic chemicals present in the outdoors to their advantage.

> >

> > Obviously that's an important development, if indeed it is what's occurring.

> >

> > I can't imagine that anybody ever will be able to do a myco count outside.

> >

> > The only real way to figure out what's going on, in my opinion, is for those

of us who are highly sensitized to the presence of this stuff to discuss it with

one another.

> >

> > Fortunately, the presence of groups like this one allows us to do that.

> >

> > Best,

> >

>

February 13, 2010

>

> I really think you are reacting to other pollutants in the air. You become

sick from mold and you react to other pollutants too, which would explain

seeking the wilderness and reacting to busier city atmospheres. I think it is

reasonable to say that wilderness air is probably cleaner than city air in most

ways, and that would be healthier but this idea that it is all about mycos I

don't see what you are basing this on? Just a feeling you get. You could be

reacting to almost anything. I believe the feeling is 'real', and affecting

your health but I don't believe there is any reasonable basis to assume it is

from mycos and somehow there is this myco perfect place to find out there or to

figure out. Just get away from as many chemicals and pollutants should do it,

if you don't need a job.

The problem that I have with this hypothesis is that now, when I'm around the

chemicals that I KNOW are in the environment, I'm not bothered by them.

It used to be that things like air fresheners, perfume, bleach, insect spray,

paint, rubber, cigarettes and an infinite array of other chemicals were

extremely debilitating to me.

Now those things are not any more of an issue for me than they seem to be for

normal people. Even things like asphalt construction and roof tar are not

horrendously debilitating, if I'm forced to come into contact with them.

It's just this one very specific " sensation " that bothers me. And it can occur

just as easily in buildings in the wilderness as in the city.

If I find it in a building and ask around, there usually is some evidence that

it's had water damage.

Just last week, I once again matched it to a very small amount of dark green

mold that someone pointed out to me.

I'm not going to rule out the idea that some other very specific chemicals might

be bothering me too, but I'm not sure which ones these might be.

I'm certainly open to suggestions though.

Best,

February 13, 2010

How I understand it is the molds/or mycotoxins that may be outdoors have much

competition from other molds etc and are unable to get out of hand. " A delicate

balance " , if you will. Inside, one mold is able to flourish because of lack of

competition from others to keep it in control. Hope that is not too confusing.

D